DPP Heatran (Life Orb)

vashta

vashta

"It was pretty cool to watch Tim Duncan from afar"
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I was quite surprised this wasn't already on-site. Comments and criticism is always welcome.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/heatran

490.png


[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Explosion
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric / Taunt
item: Life Orb
nature: Naive
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Heatran is a great candidate for utilizing Life Orb to further boost its already massive Special Attack stat. This set allows Heatran to act as a fluent sweeper without the restrictions that Choice Scarf and Choice Specs hold on it, while maintaining the power needed to achieve certain KOs, that Heatran would otherwise miss without the boost Life Orb gives.</p>

<p>Fire Blast is Heatran's STAB move for this set, causing decent amounts of damage on common switch-ins such as Gyarados and Salamence, while also ruining Scizor, Jirachi, and Celebi. Earth Power complements Fire Blast by hitting other opposing Heatran that may switch-in predicting Fire Blast and looking for a Flash Fire boost, and is also necessary for removing other common Fire-type Pokémon who may otherwise try to cushion Fire Blast. Explosion is amazingly powerful, and can guarantee an OHKO on a 0 HP / 252 Def Bold Blissey after Stealth Rock damage, which may be useful to open a sweep for another Pokémon in your team. Hidden Power is optional depending on what you wish to eliminate out of Gyarados, or Swampert. However, Taunt is a great move as it stops Pokémon such as Blissey, and Cresselia from inflicting horrible status moves which could otherwise effect Heatran's sweeping efficiency. One could also consider Dragon Pulse as it is useful for Kingdra, and helps against Salamence, Flygon, and Dragonite.</p>

<p>Expert Belt along with Heatran's attacks will bluff Choice Scarf, often causing the opponent to assume that Heatran is holding a Choice Scarf and send in something like Gyarados or Swampert to take the opportunity to set up, but will fall to one of Heatran's other unnoticed attacks. A Naive nature is recommended as it boosts Speed without hindering Heatran's Special Attack, and Attack. The EVs maximizes Heatran's Special Attack stat for maximum damage inflicted upon foes, and allows Heatran to outspeed all neutral base 85 Pokémon.</p>
 
With a quick glance, 2 things pop out.

-Hidden Power what? You need to specify. If there are multiple different options (which is looks like), slash them like Hidden Power _____ / Hidden Power ______.

A Timid nature is advised if you opt-in for Dragon Pulse in this set, and a Naive nature if you decide on going ahead with Explosion, boosting its power
Click to expand...

Naive doesn't actually boost the power, it just doesn't hinder it.
 
Err... Could you list the Hidden Power appropriate? I know Ice, Grass, and Electric are options, but listing them would be the way to go.

I think Explosion should be the first option, as that seems to be the major reason why anyone would bother with the Life Orb.

I'll try it out and see how it goes.
 
@ Veedrock - Yeah, I noticed the Explosion part. Thanks.

About the Hidden Power, I actually thought that listing three hidden powers would have been a bit "much", so I naturally thought listing the possibilities in set comments would have been reasonable enough. If anyone else has anything to say about that, I will change. It's the same situation as the Substitute set for Heatran with Hidden Power listings. Confirmation would be nice.
 
You must list a Hidden Power. They serve different purposes and therefore should be listed separately, regardless.

Vashta said:
<p>Heatran is a great candidate for utilizing Life Orb to further boost its already massive Special Attack stat. This set allows Heatran to act as a fluent sweeper without the restrictions that Choice Scarf and Choice Specs hold on it, while maintaining the power needed to achieve certain KOs, that Heatran would otherwise miss without the boost Life Orb gives.</p>

<p>Fire Blast is Heatran's STAB move for this set, causing decent amounts of damage on common switch-ins such as Gyarados and Salamence, while also ruining Scizor, Jirachi, and Celebi. Earth Power complements Fire Blast by hitting other opposing Heatran that may switch-in predicting Fire Blast and looking for a Flash Fire boost, and is also necessary for removing other common Fire-type Pokémon who may otherwise try to cushion Fire Blast. Hidden Power is optional depending on what you wish to eliminate out of Gyarados, Swampert, and Salamence - the latter depending on your choice for Heatran's last move (<- edit that part to suit the suitable Hidden Power). Dragon Pulse is useful for Kingdra, and helps against Salamence, Flygon, and Dragonite if you decided not to choose Hidden Power Ice. However, Explosion is amazingly powerful, and can guarantee an OHKO on 0 HP / 252 Def Bold Blissey after Stealth Rock damage, which may be useful to open a sweep for another Pokémon in your team.</p>

<p>A Timid nature is advised if you opt (removed -in) for Dragon Pulse in this set, and a Naive nature is recommended if you decide on going ahead with Explosion. The EVs maximizes Heatran's Special Attack stat for maximum damage inflicted upon foes, and allows Heatran to outspeed all neutral base 85 Pokémon.</p>
Click to expand...

Fire Blast does 38%-45% damage to Gyarados, I wouldn't call it "massive".
 
Yeah, like I've told you already, I'm really surprised this set wasn't on site too =P. I've used it countless times before, I just assumed it was a Heatran staple. There are just a few things I think could be changed around here though.

Firstly, I think the set would be better off if it were:

move1: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move2: Earth Power
move3: Dragon Pulse
move4: Explosion

Fire Blast is necessary on scarf tran for power purposes, but on a LO Heatran, some people might prefer Flamethrower's accuracy. Explosion should be a primary option in the last slot, not slashed with anything. LO Heatran's biggest selling point is the fact that it has a stronger than normal Explosion because of LO's Atk boost, and can choose to switch to this Explosion if faced with a Blissey, i.e. it is not locked into a move.

Your Hidden Power needs to be defined, even if there are more than one viable Hidden Power types, you need to state what they are. However, I would say that on a LO Tran, Dragon Pulse is superior. I would mention in the set comments that Dragon Pulse is very useful in getting a strong hit on Latias switchins (its Heatran's strongest attack vs it, and it won't be shrugging it off when it's backed with LO), and that Dragon Pulse has great use in hitting Water switchins neutrally. If you are running both a fire move and dragon pulse, you'll only ever need to use Earth Power when you predict an opposing Heatran is coming in. Actually, I don't think Hidden Power Ice needs a mention in the set at all, since LO Dragon Pulse does a minimum of 93% to Salamence, so I would just make it the primary option in that slot, and mention other HPs in the comments. The problems with HP Grass and Electric are that you are left pretty much completely helpless against Latias and Salamence switchins. Perhaps give these HPs a mention in the set comments, but don't have them in the actual set, as that clutters it a bit.

Also, just make the nature Naive, and explain why it is being used over a +SpA nature (outruns Gyarados and CB Heracross, etc). I think that's about it. Well done for noticing the lack of this set in Heatran's analysis, this needs to be on site =).
 
Okay, I have listed Hidden Powers as requested, and edited in changes made by twash_man. Thanks.

edit; I will check back once I have read LR's suggestions
 
If you are willing to lose 10% HP per turn, as well as an item slot, in order to gain more power, I don't see why you would skimp on power and use Flamethrower. This isn't even a case of missing OHKOs or 2HKOs: this is very much a wallbreaking set (Hotran is too slow and has too many weaknesses to be spectacular against offensive teams), and it seems silly to me that you would use an attack which, on average, makes Heatran worse at wall breaking.

Dragon Pulse is the best first option for reasons that LR mentioned, but HP Grass probably deserves a slash in that same slot. Swampert is becoming increasingly common, and it's a huge pain for a lot of offensive teams (which this Hotran will probably be used on) to deal with, since there are not a lot of offensive Pokemon which typically use Grass attacks.

HP Ice and HP Electric shouldn't even be mentioned.

HP Ice is better than Fire Blast against Gliscor, Salamence, and Flygon. Gliscor is OHKO'd anyway; Flygon and Salamence are both easily 2HKOed with SR damage anyway. It isn't like Flygon and Salamence are common Hotran switch-ins to begin with (unless they expect EP, but once again they are faster and will OHKO. I suppose you could get into bluffing Scarf, but that's a pretty poor strategy on a LO set.).

The only time HP Electric is useful is against a slower Gyarados, when both Hotran and Gyarados are out and Gyarados has no Speed boosts. Short of revenge killing, this doesn't happen to often...and honestly, how often do you have no revenge kill options against an unboosted Gyarados? Assuming you are using an offensive team, Gyarados is pretty damn slow.

In both cases, the set requires prediction if you have HP Ice/Elec. It is much less risky and more efficient to just use Fire Blast to deal with Gyarados and Salamence anyway.
 
Just to add to TAYs comments, Fire Blast also 2HKOes Gyarados after Stealth Rock damage all the time (judging from Twash's calc, provided no Leftovers). I agree with LR's set changes, but I also agree with TAY that Hidden Power Grass deserves a slash with Dragon Pulse.
 
Two comments. Well, more like one. Anyway, Taunt works excellently on Life Orb Heatran, as Blissey is the most common switchin, along with potentially Tentacruel and Swampert.

Also, you're rarely, if ever, going to practically use Dragon Pulse on a non Scarfed Set.

I recommend sticking with Explosion as the primary option.
 
Seconding the removal of Dragon Pulse on this set. It's really only good for revenge killing with a Scarf, since you can hit every outraging Dragon hard, whether it be Kingdra or Salamence etc.

Hidden Power Grass is really only for Swampert, and because of that I don't think it really has to be the main option. Swampert without Rest is getting worn down by this set anyways. Just leave a mention of HP Grass in the description, the set is kind of cluttered.

I also like the idea of Taunt but I'm not really sure of where to put it.

Also, I cant believe this isnt on the analysis already...
 
i swear i thought i wrote this before with train man i guess it was removed x=

anyway, agreeing with aldaron about taunt, it absolutely shuts down many stall teams that rely on blissey to stop heatran and it helps with stuff like cresselia.

i would probably make it:


heatran @ life orb
evs
nature
- fire blast
- earth power
- taunt / hp grass / hp ice
- explosion
 
I used a LO tran on an offensive team a while back with fire blast / hp electric / earthpower / explosion. Considering that offensive teams are usually gyara weak, luring it and taking it out early was a big bonus for me and it at least dented Suicune enough to stop it switching freely.

LO Dragon Pulse hits Latias harder than HP Ice and also pretty much OHKOs all dragons with SR/slight residual damage so HP Ice is redundant. Also takes out Adamant Kingdra that are generally threatening to offensive teams.

Something like

Fire Blast / Flamethrower
Earth Power
Dragon Pulse / HP Grass / HP Electric
Explosion
 
~ Fire Blast
~ Earth Power
~ Explosion
~ Hidden Power Grass / Taunt

With Stealth Rock up early, which is usually done by most leads, you 2HKO offensive Gyarados, so I don't think Hidden Power Electric really deserves to be on the set. Earth Power is staple. Explosion is pretty necessary and lets you go out with a bang. Hidden Power Grass gives you a stronger attack against Water-types and lets you tear apart Swampert (which Hidden Power Electric obviously doesn't let you do). Taunt is just a good idea as Aldaron posted, so I think it deserves to be there, maybe even before Hidden Power.

Anyone have a better idea of how the set should look?
 
Okay as a person that's used Life Orb Heatran for the longest ass time I figured I'd chime in.

Fire Blast and Earth Power are necessary so then it comes down to the last slot.

I like the 3rd slot to be either HP Grass or HP Electric. Both of them slam waters pretty fucking hard and it basically comes down to who you want to fuck up more, Swampert or Gyarados. HP Ice and Dragon Pulse are retarded they don't deserve to be on the set. I also feel like Taunt could go here if necessary. I've run both HP Electric and Taunt in this slot at different points in time and I'm not sure whether or not Taunt is worth the loss of coverage.

Also boom by itself in the last slot is necessary

So I'd go with something like:

move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Grass / Taunt
move 4: Explosion

edit: also about the whole "fire blast 2hko with sr up on gyarados." when i was using this set gyarados was never the first switchin, so 2hkoing with sr up was mostly useless. what i got a TON of though was gyarados switching in off of a kill thinking it gets a free setup and instead eating an hp electric before it gets to move.

also i get the sense that some of the better players in this topic that are throwing around their opinions haven't even used this set before. so please cut the theorymon if you haven't used it. this set plays so much differently than how i'm seeing people describe.
 
I don't understand why Dragon Pulse wouldn't be included in the set. With Fire Blast / Earth Power / HP Grass, you are completely helpless to Latias and Salamence switchins without Exploding. Even if you can't use it to revenge kill things, that doesn't mean you can't use it predicting a Flygon / Latias / Salamence / Kingdra / Gyarados (2HKO with SR, just like Fire Blast, but 100% accurate) switchin and attack accordingly. Dragon Pulse gives perfect coverage when paired with Fire and Ground, something that neither HP Grass nor HP Electric provides. Isn't HP Grass on this set really solely for Swampert? HP Grass won't guarantee to 2HKO Vaporeon and Suciune, is it worth having an attack as a primary option for a single Pokemon, yet not mention an attack that completes coverage and hits the Pokemon that resist the other two moves super effectively? Sorry, I'm just a little confused why Dragon Pulse isn't listed here =/.

I would have thought the set would look something like:

- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion
- Dragon Pulse / Taunt / Hidden Power Grass
 
I actually used this set quite a bit in the past (though I admit I haven't used it recently). Back then my 4th move was taunt, since Hotran was common as fuck and a Flash Fire'd Heatran could beat Blissey with Fire Blast and Taunt (it was also handy against Cresselia).

Perhaps HP Elec is better than I gave it credit for, but I really don't think it should be the first option. Even with TTar and Scizor everywhere, Latias is way more annoying than the SR weak Gyarados, so I would take Dragon Pulse as the first option. Taunt is an amazing wall breaker move (no protecting on my explosion hehehe), but Latias is pretty damn common and pretty damn annoying, even on Stall teams, and it does switch into Hotran a good bit more than Gyarados does.
 
Also voting for the removal of dragon pulse, although I'm not that adamant about it. To me HP electric is as much as a first option as HP grass, it is what I use on LO heatran. Both get waters (suicune, vappy, etc get 2hko'ed on the switch) and then you can either get swampert or gyarados. A LOT of people switch in gyarados to heatran (especially restalk gyarados). I'd say at best it's 50/50 for what is the most common switch in to heatran. Sometimes I wish I had grass, sometimes I wish I had electric. HP ice on the other hand is actually a pretty bad option as any dragon would outspeed you.
 
I am also in support for the removal of Dragon Pulse, as I can't see Heatran being able to beat Latias when it has access to Calm Mind and can recover off damage, as well as Latias being able to hit you with Surf before you can beat it 1-on-1. For the points stressed, I definitely recommend either Hidden Power Grass or Hidden Power Electric in the fourth slot. Obviously, explain the advantage and disadvantage of using either move.
 
Okay, I have read through all arguments, and have made Explosion a primary single option in the last slot. In regards to the Hidden Powers, I have removed Hidden Power Ice (as, yes, it is redundant as Dragon Pulse optional in set comments), Hidden Power Grass / Electric have stayed, as hitting bulky waters is something Heatran certainly appreciates; Grass as been decided as the superior option to prevent Swampert problems, and Gyarados is still hit hard by it - not to say Electric isn't good enough anyway. Oh, and Taunt has been added as it does help Heatran to avoid further status problems, which is greatly loved.

Dragon Pulse. Hmm. I have removed it from the initial set, but still strongly believe it deserves mention in set comments as it certainly works well with the elimination of Kingdra, and co.

thanks.
 
I would /Expert Belt there because the most common switch in would be Gyarados and when they detect Life Orb they are forced to switch unless they are Jolly. Expert Belt also fakes out the opponent because it is usually Choiced.
 
This is just a little nitpick: put those 4 hp Evs into Attack for Explosion unless they're needed, which I'm sure they're not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top