DPP Jirachi (Full Revamp)

I use Thunder on CM Jirachi, and it works like a charm against threats like Heatran who switch into Jirachi all day long, while still maintaining the decent coverage that Psychic/ Electric has. While the 70% accuracy is offputting, the 60% paralysis rate certainly isn't. The extra power comes in handy when you are trying to face up against Heatran and Tyranitar, and if you miss, well, that's why you should have a Sub up. It is also useful on the supporter too, although it requires a negative speed nature to be too effective. And I don't mind the missing that Thunder can have because the risk can often be worth the payoff. Then again, this is coming from the person who uses DynamicPunch on Jirachi (me), so take this as you will. I think I've talked to you about DynamicPunch before Chris ^^

Mention it in set comments, oo, or whatever is fine with me. It doesn't really suck though.

EDIT: Oh, I can write up Dual Screen if you want me to.
I agree that Thunder should definitely be an option on the more defensively-orientated sets. With Serene Grace and accuracy factored in, Thunder gets 42% chance of paralyzing and causing heavy damage, 28% chance of simply firing off a 120 bp attack, and an unfortunate 30% chance of doing nothing. 70% chance of screwing over the switch-in royally is too good to pass up. Defensive Jirachi will have more opportunities to test its luck, but the more offensive sets need the reliability of Thunderbolt.

Add spaces in between the Choice Band set's slashes. Ice Punch should be listed in as an option, not just in the comments. 20% chance of freeze is worthy enough. Taking care of Salamence is icing on the cake.
 

cim

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Thunder I'll arrange to get put in Set Comments, I hate missing, though, so no slash. If I don't get to it you can do Dual Screen, but I probably will (read: if it's not there this time tomorrow that would be excellent)
 

cim

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[SET]
name: Wish Support
move 1: Wish
move 2: U-turn
move 3: Body Slam / Thunder Wave / Thunder
move 4: Iron Head / Ice Punch
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 240 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpD / 32 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>A general supporting tank Jirachi, this set is tailored to use Jirachi's resistances and great defenses to pass Wishes around to other members of one's team. The general strategy is to Wish, then U-turn to scout out a threat (or take a hit from a faster one) while healing something else on the team. If the opponent is faster and will KO Jirachi, such as Mamoswine, one should opt to switch rather than use U-turn. Jirachi is best used to nurse Pokémon that resist his Fire and Ground weaknesses, such as Salamence and Gyarados, back to health.</p>

<p>The other moves on this set allow Jirachi to provide even more support while beating certain threats. Body Slam is an awesome move on Jirachi, dealing a bit of damage and a 60% chance of paralyzing anything but Ghost-types. This is especially annoying if you paralyze something like Mamoswine or Flygon, whom normally don't have to worry about losing their Speed. Thunder Wave is still available if you want to guarantee paralysis, but Body Slam is usually better. Thunder is an even lesser option that only paralyzes non-Ground types 42% of the time (factoring in accuracy), but it is a nasty surprise for Skarmory, easily 2HKOing it.</p>

<p>The fourth slot is for a STAB attack to further damage the opponent. Both moves have a significant chance to flinch the opponent and combo excellently with Body Slam's paralysis. When the opponent is paralyzed, Iron Head allows them only a 30% chance of attacking Jirachi, while Zen Headbutt allows a 50% chance of attack. Iron Head is generally preferred as it hits Mamoswine and Tyranitar very hard and has a higher chance of flinch. Ice Punch is listed as an option to do major damage to Salamence.</p>

<p>240 HP EVs hits 401, allowing Jirachi optimal Leftovers recovery as well as granting him the ability to take 5 consecutive Seismic Tosses. 32 Speed EVs beats Jolly Tyranitar and Timid Magnezone, allowing this Jirachi to escape Specs Magnezone's clutches unharmed. The rest of the EVs are split between the defenses, with enough physical defense to not be 2HKOed by Adamant Salamence's Life Orb Outrage after a Dragon Dance. </p>

Some changes worth discussing:
  • New EV spread is designed to optimally counter Salamence.
  • Body Slam is primary, Thunder is secondary.
maddog, please do Dual Screen, lol.
 

Syberia

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<p>The fourth slot is for a STAB attack to further damage the opponent. Both moves have a significant chance to flinch the opponent and combo excellently with Body Slam's paralysis. When the opponent is paralyzed, Iron Head allows them only a 30% chance of attacking Jirachi, while Zen Headbutt allows a 50% chance of attack. Iron Head is generally preferred as it hits Mamoswine and Tyranitar very hard and has a higher chance of flinch. Ice Punch is listed as an option to do major damage to Salamence.</p>
You mention Zen Headbutt in the comments, even before Ice Punch, yet it shows up nowhere in the set. I'm not sure it really needs to be there at all; Iron Head is a much better option most of the time.
 

panamaxis

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I've been toying (and have playtested this before, but unfortunately jirachi always got haxed during those games when I switched in, so I only got the chance to set up once) with an idea of the following jirachi:

Boosting Sweeper
not too sure about the EVs yet
Cosmic power
Wish
Charge Beam
Psychic

So basically charge beam will always raise sp. atk when it hits due to serene grace. Cosmic power will allow jirachi to set up a couple of charge beams. From there on jirachi can sweep. Yes I know that critical hits destroy you, but that didn't stop taunt + cosmic power deoxyes from being a force.

I'd be more then happy to do a write-up.

Viable or not viable?
 

LonelyNess

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Personally I'd use Flash Cannon as your "Strong STAB" move over Psychic on that set... if only because Tyranitar is going to look at Charge Beam as your only way to attack it and laugh its ass off. Not to mention that the things that resist Flash Cannon (Electric / Waters / Fire / Steel) are either weak to Charge Beam (Waters) or have pretty bad SpD (Fires in particular who aren't named Heatran). With Flash Cannon, you really only have to worry about Zapdos and Heatran, who are big, but Psychic only helps with one of those two anyway.
 

Syberia

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Flash Cannon at least "hits" everything; I'm not sure about the effectiveness of that set but it looks like it'd be annoying to face, anyways.
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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That set is OO at best. Both Cosmic Power and Charge Beam are going to go into Other Options, as they're gimmicky at best and this Jirachi already has a ton of competitively viable sets that are better than that one.
 

cim

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Uh, I guess Dual Screen is what this is waiting on ._. but I haven't actually used it so can someone write it up? I'll build a team with it but it'd be better if someone else did...
 

maddog

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Sure.

[SET]
name: Dual Screen
move 1: Light Screen
move 2: Reflect
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Wish
item: Light Clay
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Jirachi is a fantastic user of the Dual Screen strategy. Bring in Jirachi during the middle of the game on something that it can force out, such as a CB Tyranitar that used Stone Edge. The process from there, depending on your team, is very linear. It is recommended you Light Screen first, as most Pokemon that threaten Jirachi attack from the Special side of the spectrum. Use Reflect next, and U-turn to a Baton Passer such as Celebi or Gliscor, or a set up sweeper such as Dragon Dance Tyranitar. Thanks to Light Clay boosting the length of both Reflect and Light Screen to 8 turns instead of 5, your set up, and your attempted sweep, should be much easier to accomplish.</p>

<p>Jirachi differs from other Dual Screen users because of Wish and U-turn. When used with no Speed EVs, U-turn becomes a great method of insuring that your chosen target comes into the field taking as little damage as possible. Wish completes the set, as it is a great method for Jirachi to support itself or the team.</p>

<p>The given EVs make Choice Scarf Heatran's Flamethrower a 3HKO after Light Screen is up, and also gives good physical bulk after a Reflect as well. No Speed EVs are recommended on this set to get the maximum benefit out of U-turn, and allow Jirachi to be as bulky as possible. While some may feel that more Speed EVs are necessary, remember that Jirachi will often be one link in a chain, and that it is often better to get your Baton Passer or set up sweeper at full health, than to have them take a hit that will reduce their chances at getting off a successful sweep</p>

Just a rought draft! If somebody could check spelling/ grammar that would be great!
 
I can see right away strategy is spelled wrong, I'm not gonna do any more since I'm just looking for a good set to use.
 

macle

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Sure.

[SET]
name: Dual Screen
move 1: Light Screen
move 2: Reflect
move 3: U-Turn
move 4: Wish
item: Light Clay
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 152 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Jirachi is a fantastic user of the Dual Screen strategy. Bring in Jirachi during the middle of the game on something that it can force out, such as a CB Tyranitar that used Stone Edge. The process from there, depending on your team, is very linear. It is recommended you Light Screen first, as most Pokemon that threaten Jirachi attack from the special side of the spectrum. Use Reflect next, and U-Turn to a Baton Passer such as Celebi or Gliscor, or a set up sweeper such as Dragon Dance Tyranitar. Thanks to Light Clay boosting the length of both Reflect and Light Screen to 8 turns instead of 5, your set up, and your attempted sweep, should be easier to accomplish.</p>

<p>Jirachi differs from other Dual Screen users because of Wish and U-Turn. When used with no Speed EVs, U-Turn becomes a great method of insuring that your chosen target comes into the field taking as little damage as possible. Wish completes the set, as it is a great method for Jirachi to support itself or the team.</p>

<p>The given EVs make Choice Scarf Heatran's Flamethrower a 3HKO after Light Screen is up, and also gives good physical bulk after a Light Screen as well. No Speed EVs are recommended on this set to get the maximum benefit out of U-Turn, and allow Jirachi to be as bulky as possible. While some may feel that more Speed EVs are necessary, remember that Jirachi will often be one link in a chain, and that it is often better to get your Baton Passer or set up sweeper at full health, than to have them take a hit that will reduce their chances at getting off a successful sweep</p>

Just a rought draft! If somebody could check spelling/ grammar that would be great!
Just some minor spelling mistakes I picked up.
 
In addition to Macle's corrections:
[SET]
name: Dual Screen
move 1: Light Screen
move 2: Reflect
move 3: U-turn
as most Pokemon that threaten Jirachi attack from the Special side of the spectrum. Use Reflect next, and U-turn to a Baton Passer
Jirachi differs from other Dual Screen users because of Wish and U-turn. When used with no Speed EVs, U-turn becomes a great method of insuring
and also gives good physical bulk after a Light Screen as well
I think this should be Reflect instead of Light Screen.

No Speed EVs are reccommended on this set to get the maxinium benefit out of U-turn
 

Colonel M

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One more set that I thought was pretty decent... it was designed to tackle threats such as SD Lucario, Mamoswine, Scizor, etc.

[SET]
name: Didn't think of one unfortunately...
move 1: Iron Head
move 2: Fire Punch
move 3: Body Slam / Thunder Wave
move 4: Stealth Rock / Zen Headbutt
item: Leftovers
nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Perhaps Zen Headbutt isn't really worthy, but the set is very good. It's a revenge killer of sorts by handling Tyranitar, Mamoswine, Scizor, Lucario, etc.

I dunno, me and reachzero have used this to great success. Thought it might be worth adding.
 
I've used that set too, Colonel M, except I used Expert Belt and more specialized EVs. Here's the set I used:

Jirachi @ Expert Belt
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 76 HP / 180 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Wish / Ice Punch / ThunderPunch

This explains the EVs: (what I posted in my RMT)

The EVs allow Jirachi to always KO 252 HP Scizor if it's taken Life Orb damage, and outspeed Jolly Gliscor, with the rest thrown in HP.
 

Aldaron

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Jabba, I and company were discussing this in #biuret.

The cm set really has Flash Cannon / Hidden Power Ground as the first options?

Really?

Psychic + Thunderbolt / Grass Knot should be the third and fourth slots first, with MAYBE Hidden Power Ground included as well.

Flash Cannon + Hidden Power Ground is a set comments combination at best.

A wise man once said:

"<A Wise Man> it's just fanboyism over self created type coverage"
 

TAY

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I'm agreeing with Aldaron. Flash Canon + HP Ground might be useful if you need to lure out TTar / Heatran, but overall Psychic + Tbolt just has better coverage and better neutral damage. It also does WAY better against every common phazer in OU.
 

cim

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Jabba, I and company were discussing this in #biuret.

The cm set really has Flash Cannon / Hidden Power Ground as the first options?

Really?

Psychic + Thunderbolt / Grass Knot should be the third and fourth slots first, with MAYBE Hidden Power Ground included as well.

Flash Cannon + Hidden Power Ground is a set comments combination at best.

A wise man once said:

"<A Wise Man> it's just fanboyism over self created type coverage"
I'd be happy to discuss this in biuret with you but I kind of trolled Tangerine last night and... yeah.

Anyhow, try it before you knock it. Seriously, it works just as well if not better than Psychic / Thunderbolt. It allows Jirachi to not instantly lose to Tyranitar, Mamoswine, Heatran, and Magnezone, plus it still beats most anything else that comes in on it. I don't know what reason you object to it for, but I'd encourage you to read everything SDS and I have written on the topic. We've playtested Jirachi extensively and this is not a gimmick.

I'll get SDS to add Latias as a reson to use Flash Cannon while I'm at it.

I'm agreeing with Aldaron. Flash Canon + HP Ground might be useful if you need to lure out TTar / Heatran, but overall Psychic + Tbolt just has better coverage and better neutral damage. It also does WAY better against every common phazer in OU.
Let's look at the common phazers. Skarmory is the most common, and yes it does do worse against it. It can only 3/4HKO Skarm after a Calm Mind. Suicune runs Roar just over 25% of the time, so 75% of Suicunes you beat anyway. Hippowdon takes negligibly more damage than Psychic.

You exchange the ability to hit Skarmory and Suicune hard initially for beating another set of counters. Tyranitar doesn't come in for free. Heatran dies in one hit.

Pokémon by usage:
-Scizor: P / T is preferred
-Salamence: Even
-Heatran: F / G
-Gyarados: P / T
-Metagross: F / G
-Infernape: Even (both OHKO)
-Tyranitar: F / G
-Blissey: Slight P / T (though both struggle equally, both need the same drop to win, and both win with the drop)
-Swampert: P / T
-Lucario: Even
-Zapdos: P / T
-Gengar: Even
-Celebi: F / G (and this is huge because Perishbi is kind of the best counter)
-Jirachi: F / G
-Azelf: F / G

Of the top 15, 5 (counting Blissey even though it doesn't matter) are more easily beaten by Psychic / Thunderbolt, 6 by Flash Cannon / HP Ground, and 4 don't matter. Flash Cannon / HP Ground is definitely worthy of consideration over Psychic and Thunderbolt.

It's not like we took out Psychic or said it was better / worse in all scenarios, so I don't see what the big deal is...
 

Aldaron

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That's fine, but Psychic + Thunderbolt / Grass Knot is a better "on average" setup than Flash Cannon + Hidden Power Ground.

At the very least it should be the first option rather than the second one.
 
What about Flash Cannon / Thunderbolt? It has reasonably good coverage and is probably better for the Tyranitar - Latias metagame. Heatran is much less of a threat now anyway, and Steel / Thunderbolt hits most things neutral... off the top of the head all I can think of is Swampert, Jolteon, Rotom, Magnezone, and probably a handful of others.
 

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