DPP offensive threats Polling

JSND

So its about the peak of DPPtHGSS metagame or shortly gen 4 metagame with
only 3 weeks to BW release. We had much fun in this fast paced metagame of gen 4. With that said, how about making a polling of gen 4's biggest offensive thread.
The offensive threat can vary from set up sweeper, choiced, anything.
The format is like this:

Pokemon Name(written in Bold)
Type of Playstyle(it can be only one or more) and damage type (phys or spec or mix)
The opinion of this threat and the reason you choose it

Choice for the threats is only for pokemon ever allowed on standard metagame ever since the
begining to this point.

To count the poll, once in a while i will see the poll and edit the first post
to make it convenient to read.
Lastly one person can only make one choice and after posting their opinion they can only comment on others opinion and please state your choice clearly so it is easy to check it.
Thanks in advance

Current Result:
Garchomp - 6 (37,5 %)
Salamence - 3 (18,75 %)
Deoxys-S - 2 (12,5 %)
Scizor - 1 (6,25 %)
Breelom 1 (6,25 %)
Tyranitar - 1 (6,25 %)
Gyarados - 1 (6,25 %)
Lucario - 1 (6,25 %)
Total - (16)

*Update
-Allowing more pokemon in the choice
-Vote result #1
 
Gyarados
Set up sweeper (Physical)
Opinion:
We know Gyarados being such a huge threat ever since it got DD. It has been a very big offensive threat since that time up till this day, constantly getting on Top 10 on usage. Gyarados is arguably one of the most predictable sweeper in the standard because when seeing it you could mostly predict that it is a DD. That being said, its actualy the most stable offfensive threats since even with the advent of things such as rotom-H its usage havent been fallen like crazy. But the biggest reason its the biggest threat is not because of the
power it possesed. Its because of the fact that unlike many other sweeper, Gyarados is going against the metagame itself. Things like CB zor has been a staple of many team because of its immense power. Unlike those like salamence whose stopped cold by bulllet punch, gyara use the bullet punch to grant him a set up opportunity. Its set up range is also very broad, being able to set up on more than half of the metagame even on the face of other offensive threats. To put it fairly, lets admit it. The sole reason moves like hidden power electric or electric moves is carried on defensive pokemon is mostly because of Gyarados.Its because Gyarados is very good at dealing with many defensive pokemon because it possesed the move taunt that effectively shuts the defensive behemoth common moveset.
All things said it deserve to get this title overthrowing those big attacker such as scizor, salamence and others
 
This seems more appropriate for something like The Smog rather than a forum topic. In fact, I believe something like this has been done for doubles. Perhaps you should make the suggestion for a singles version of that article.

Having said that, my choice for the biggest threat is Swords Dance Lucario. It is very easy, despite its relative frailness, to get an opportunity to set up, and the unpredictability of the third moveslot makes it tougher to counter (although Rotom-A is a very solid check to most versions).
 
Yeah, this is more of a memorabilia thing, "The old best sweepers." or "The good ol' days"
But,
Freaking DD Mence for all of plat up till recently owned everything.
Also, I'm going to lol if they give Scizor a evo.
 
Ramblin Wreck said:
This seems more appropriate for something like The Smog rather than a forum topic. In fact, I believe something like this has been done for doubles. Perhaps you should make the suggestion for a singles version of that article.

Having said that, my choice for the biggest threat is Swords Dance Lucario. It is very easy, despite its relative frailness, to get an opportunity to set up, and the unpredictability of the third moveslot makes it tougher to counter (although Rotom-A is a very solid check to most versions).
Click to expand...

just asking what is singles version ?
also please post using the format
anyway thx for your advice
 
He's saying how there was a Smog article similar to this for the doubles metagame, and saying you should suggest this idea for standard OU, which is signles.
 
Salamence
Wish tank
Dragon Dancer
Band user
Specs user
Mixed sweeper
Wall breaker

Why did I choose Salamence? It was broken as hell. It had a few good revenge killers (Mamoswine, Weavile) but it was practically impossible to hard counter. Intimidate means it also outclasses Gyarados in almost every way, and it's definitelty superior to Dragonite in terms of Dragon types.

I don't think Latias cuts it without Soul Dew and I wasn't playing when Garchomp or Latios (if it ever was OU,) got banned
 
Breloom

SubPuncher (Physical)

Along with CroCune, the utter bane of my pokemon related existence.
The simple Toxic Orb, SporePuncher can utterly obliterate teams unprepared for it and many teams that are. It can switch in on a surprisingly large amount of things and even some Ghosts and SleepTalkers find life difficult when this thing has set up.
 
Zacchaeus said:
Salamence
Wish tank
Dragon Dancer
Band user
Specs user
Mixed sweeper
Wall breaker

Why did I choose Salamence? It was broken as hell. It had a few good revenge killers (Mamoswine, Weavile) but it was practically impossible to hard counter. Intimidate means it also outclasses Gyarados in almost every way, and it's definitelty superior to Dragonite in terms of Dragon types.

I don't think Latias cuts it without Soul Dew and I wasn't playing when Garchomp or Latios (if it ever was OU,) got banned
Click to expand...

Latias even without dew is a bigger therat than even mence.
anyway its not always superior since it dont have priority which a slight advantage and sala's set up range is not that big seeing ice beam is so much carried as a standard unlike electric moves which some not use as standard only using it for gyara.
Still its a threat nonethless
 
(I will exclude latios since it was never in OU anyways but only suspect)
"back in the day" I'd have to say garchomp was pretty ridiculous.

Garchomp
SDYache
Scarf
Chain
CB (to a lesser degree)

While the thing had good amount of versatility, I'd say SDYache was able to really destroy a team and run through it if the opponent did have more than one check.
It was awesome using it though (but I never used smogon back then but only used couple of korean websites 0.o)
 
JSND said:
Latias even without dew is a bigger therat than even mence.
anyway its not always superior since it dont have priority which a slight advantage and sala's set up range is not that big seeing ice beam is so much carried as a standard unlike electric moves which some not use as standard only using it for gyara.
Still its a threat nonethless
Click to expand...

Salamence has 55 higher base Attack, and the same Special Attack, it can raise its Speed, it has a good ability, it has a better offensive movepool, and it has better defensive typing outside of the 4x Ice weakness and Stealth Rock weakness. The only priority Latias has is its pitifully weak Sucker Punch, and Latias can't go mixed
 
lordkira said:
(I will exclude latios since it was never in OU anyways but only suspect)
"back in the day" I'd have to say garchomp was pretty ridiculous.

Garchomp
SDYache
Scarf
Chain
CB (to a lesser degree)

While the thing had good amount of versatility, I'd say SDYache was able to really destroy a team and run through it if the opponent did have more than one check.
It was awesome using it though (but I never used smogon back then but only used couple of korean websites 0.o)
Click to expand...

garchomp is uber and is not allowed like salamence in this post
that being said you can post another
 
JSND said:
garchomp is uber and is not allowed like salamence in this post
that being said you can post another
Click to expand...

Right, but Garchomp was legal for quite a while. Just because you're the OP doesn't mean you can make such arbitrary restrictions.
 
Zacchaeus said:
Salamence has 55 higher base Attack, and the same Special Attack, it can raise its Speed, it has a good ability, it has a better offensive movepool, and it has better defensive typing outside of the 4x Ice weakness and Stealth Rock weakness. The only priority Latias has is its pitifully weak Sucker Punch, and Latias can't go mixed
Click to expand...

sorry for the misunderstanding i cause first.
The priority is targeted on dragonite's extremespeed thus its a slight really slight advantage. same special attack is good but it cant handle blissey unlike latias while it can handle Ttar unlike latias.
latias has many option and believe it you wont see many sala using other than
mixmence and his dd sweeper set which is bad compared to other set upper in the metagame(well for me though its people's opinion after all)
and unlike latias, sala alone cant make the 3 dragon 3 steel team since
its not that bulky in special which is the type most ice user uses and
has 4x multiplier on that
 
420 said:
Right, but Garchomp was legal for quite a while. Just because you're the OP doesn't mean you can make such arbitrary restrictions.
Click to expand...

first of all im sorry for the selfish rule i made. The reason i dont allow chomp is because it isnt in standard for quite a long time. Salamence is in OU for a very long time(from the beggining to about a month before gen 5) and while latias is in same position as sala, sala doesnt really ruin the metagame like latias
 
IMO, the biggest threat that Gen 4 brought was not DDGyara, but DD Tyranitar. With Physical Crunch and Stone Edge, it's a MONSTER.

Luke is scary too.
 
Suicide leads, and such. Stealth Rock is bigger and badder than any individual pokemon. It's totally changed the shape of the lead game.
 
JSND said:
first of all im sorry for the selfish rule i made. The reason i dont allow chomp is because it isnt in standard for quite a long time. Salamence is in OU for a very long time(from the beggining to about a month before gen 5) and while latias is in same position as sala, sala doesnt really ruin the metagame like latias
Click to expand...

This is quite a stupid rule (no offense). Salamence and Garchomp have centralized this generation metagame until they got banned so they should be included as well in the poll.

My vote is for:

Garchomp@yache berry
nature: jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-swords dance
-dragon claw
-earthquake
-fire fang

This Pokemon has been the most fearsome offensive threat until late 2008. It was capable of sweeping entire teams with 2 great stab moves backed up by SD and fire fang. After a single SD it could 1-2hko every Pokemon in the game and given its 102 base Speed and its amazing 108/95/85 defences it was really hard to revenge kill.

Next comes Salamence and its unpredictability associated with its massive movepool and its great 135/110 offensive stats.
 
While it's true salamence outclasses dragonite's offensive dd set.
I disagree with the whole argument of salamence outclassing dragonite.
While mixmence was a better mixed sweeper than dragonite, I saw mixnite as the better wallbreaker/stallbreaker. Furthermore, dragonite's cleric set can't be outclassed by mence really, either is its agility set. Most importantly, Bulky DDNite in my honest opinion is MUCH better than mence's and in that sense outclasses mence's variant.
I think we should specify on the sets when discussing about one outclassing another.

Also, as for the issue of garchomp...if that's what you want I don't mind. However, I'd advice you to change your first post so that people only include salamence into the play (or latias). Because salamence doesn't even compare to the threat level garchomp posed at all.
 
lordkira said:
While it's true salamence outclasses dragonite's offensive dd set.
I disagree with the whole argument of salamence outclassing dragonite.
While mixmence was a better mixed sweeper than dragonite, I saw mixnite as the better wallbreaker/stallbreaker. Furthermore, dragonite's cleric set can't be outclassed by mence really, either is its agility set. Most importantly, Bulky DDNite in my honest opinion is MUCH better than mence's and in that sense outclasses mence's variant.
I think we should specify on the sets when discussing about one outclassing another.

Also, as for the issue of garchomp...if that's what you want I don't mind. However, I'd advice you to change your first post so that people only include salamence into the play (or latias). Because salamence doesn't even compare to the threat level garchomp posed at all.
Click to expand...

in the first post i just said i dont allow every uber except for salamence.
also finaly!! someone except me who says Dragonite is the better DD
yay!!! sala is the better mixer though
 
lordkira said:
While it's true salamence outclasses dragonite's offensive dd set.
I disagree with the whole argument of salamence outclassing dragonite.
While mixmence was a better mixed sweeper than dragonite, I saw mixnite as the better wallbreaker/stallbreaker. Furthermore, dragonite's cleric set can't be outclassed by mence really, either is its agility set. Most importantly, Bulky DDNite in my honest opinion is MUCH better than mence's and in that sense outclasses mence's variant.
I think we should specify on the sets when discussing about one outclassing another.
Click to expand...
Biased much?

Anyway, can you explain these points? It's easy to say "this doesn't outclass that", but you also need to explain why. And "because THIS set doesn't outclass THAT set" isn't an explanation because you need to explain these points as well.
 
Seconding Haunter's choice of YacheChomp.

I also think Latias with her Specs set was pretty fearsome even though it took people a while to finally ban her.

From what I hear, Deoxys-S was pretty fearsome back in its day but also pretty easy to stop.

edit: also can we NOT turn this into a "Mence is better than Dragonite", "Dragonite is better than Mence" or a "Mence shouldn't have been uber" argument? Thanks!
 
I've been here since post Chomp era, so I'm gonna list out which ones that I thought had the biggest impact on the metagame.

Salamence@Life Orb

Dragon Dance
Earthquake
Outrage
Fire Blast

Only thing I can say any team that's not prepared for this DD set might as well say good bye to the game, and even teams that have a solid counter have troubles handling this thing. Tears apart physical walls (Forretress, Skarmory), even as a prominent physical attacker. Easy to come in and set up as long as you get rid of the priority users such as Scizor (Easy with Rotom formes and Magnezone), weavile (almost non-existent, and scizor takes care of it), Mamoswine (lol), and scarfed dragons, (Scarfed Flygon is a good counter). Bring this thing in late game, and it'll almost guarantee you a win. I made a team with Salamence centering it, and it brought me up to around a 1300, from a shitty 900. I can attest to its power.

Breloom@Toxic Orb

Substitute/Stone Edge
Spore
Focus Punch
Seed Bomb/Stone Edge

Has been a pain the ass since my debut in the metagame. THe only solid counter is Gliscor, and Dragonite (Not even, as if you attempt to roost, to heal off the damage, it hits for over 60% on a bulky DDer). Spores to piss you off, and then starts subing and punching. One of the hardest for me to counter in my whole shoddy battling life.

Scizor@Choice Band

Bullet Punch
U Turn
Superpower
Pursuit

A staple on all my teams, this guy comes in as one of the best revenge killers with bullet punch, and will regain your momentum back with U Turn. If you're feeling risky, you might just turn the tide, using a Superpower on that Cursing Snorlax for the KO, or use Pursuit on a fleeing Gengar, or Rotom forme. The U Turn combo that I employ with Scizor and Flygon punches holes in teams, allowing my sweeper to come in and finish the game with ease. Hard to destroy with its myriad of resistences, and only one crucial weakness to fire. Scizor gets my vote.
 
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