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OU DPP OU creative and underrated sets

Some theory:
In my opinion true Wide Lens sets should only be used on sets with moves that have 90% or above accuracy, such as:

Overheat, Draco Meteor, Air Slash, Ice Fang, Zen Headbutt, Leech Seed, Aqua Tail

This is because it minimizes the miss rate to 1% or 0% which is pretty much perfect accuracy. In matches we want the moves to have virtually perfect accuracy (if you miss with a 99% move you were just super unlucky). The above moves noticeably miss inevitably with their normal accuracies (like even though they have 90% or 95% which seems high they still seem to have a miss at one of the worst times). When Wide Lens is used on moves like WoW or Focus Blast, its not enough, it still misses at a noticeable level, so in my opinion it isnt worth using the item. Like I've never been a fan of Wide Lens Gengar, since the moves still miss a lot anyway.

Make sense?

Edit: Just wanted to say 90% moves feel like they miss a lot and the reasoning behind this is that moves like Hydro Pump miss a lot. For example Overheat can apply to this situation in that it almost occurs as often as a Hydro Pump miss, but just requires an additional coin flip to determine if it misses or doesn't.

With Wide Lens, it isn't a coin flip that determines if the move hits or not, instead it requires 19/20 (95%) odds instead of 1/2 (50%) odds

Like Hydro Pump is just flat 8/10 odds
Overheat is 8/10 odds + a coin flip (1/2 odds)
But with Wide Lens it is 8/10 odds + 19/20 odds which is a lot better
Also the math behind Wide Lens Overheat is the same as getting two shots of using naked Overheat in one turn:
- if you miss the first attempt it is 9/10, but then the remaining probability is also 9/10 (90/100 + 9/10 = 99/100)
- if you miss with a Wide Lens Overheat, it is the same as missing two Overheats in a row without Wide Lens

Edit 2:

I feel like a good example would be Hitmonlee. Like it wouldn't be a competitive set but it follows the theory:
hitmonlee.png

Hitmonlee @ Wide Lens
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Jump Kick / Blaze Kick
- Foresight
- Focus Energy

With the ability + Wide Lens its like he gets a free Black Belt + a virtually perfect accurate High Jump Kick move. He wouldn't have to worry about missing his signature moves and getting damaged. Interestingly he can use Foresight, have enough SpDef to take a Ghost attack, and hopefully KO with a Jump Kick. Blaze Kick is there to hit Psychics and hopefully crit. Actually upon research, High Jump Kick may be enough to KO more frail Psychics like Kadabra.

It's like Wide Lens was designed for Hitmonlee. Like I can see this Hitmonlee on the Karate Master's team in the Dojo in Fire Red. It's like a special Hitmonlee.
 
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mackie said:
Some theory:
In my opinion true Wide Lens sets should only be used on sets with moves that have 90% or above accuracy, such as:

Overheat, Draco Meteor, Air Slash, Zen Headbutt

This is because it minimizes the miss rate to 1% or 0% which is pretty much perfect accuracy. In matches we want the moves to have virtually perfect accuracy (if you miss with a 99% move you were just super unlucky). The above moves noticeably miss inevitably with their normal accuracies (like even though they have 90% or 95% which seems high they still seem to have a miss at one of the worst times). When Wide Lens is used on moves like WoW or Focus Blast, its not enough, it still misses at a noticeable level, so in my opinion it isnt worth using the item.

Make sense?
Click to expand...
Idk if I agree with that. It's a relative boost so you're obviously maximizing the benefit when the base accuracy is higher but you're also not getting enough benefit relative to running alternative items.
 
mackie said:
Some theory:
In my opinion true Wide Lens sets should only be used on sets with moves that have 90% or above accuracy, such as:

Overheat, Draco Meteor, Air Slash, Ice Fang, Zen Headbutt

This is because it minimizes the miss rate to 1% or 0% which is pretty much perfect accuracy. In matches we want the moves to have virtually perfect accuracy (if you miss with a 99% move you were just super unlucky). The above moves noticeably miss inevitably with their normal accuracies (like even though they have 90% or 95% which seems high they still seem to have a miss at one of the worst times). When Wide Lens is used on moves like WoW or Focus Blast, its not enough, it still misses at a noticeable level, so in my opinion it isnt worth using the item. Like I've never been a fan of Wide Lens Gengar, since the moves still miss a lot anyway.

Make sense?

Edit: Just wanted to say 90% moves feel like they miss a lot and the reasoning behind this is that moves like Hydro Pump miss a lot. For example Overheat can apply to this situation in that it almost occurs as often as a Hydro Pump miss, but just requires an additional coin flip to determine if it misses or doesn't.

With Wide Lens, it isn't a coin flip that determines if the move hits or not, instead it requires 19/20 (95%) odds instead of 1/2 (50%) odds

Like Hydro Pump is just flat 8/10 odds
Overheat is 8/10 odds + a coin flip (1/2 odds)
But with Wide Lens it is 8/10 odds + 19/20 odds which is a lot better
Also the math behind Wide Lens Overheat is the same as getting two shots of using naked Overheat in one turn:
- if you miss the first attempt it is 9/10, but then the remaining probability is also 9/10 (90/100 + 9/10 = 99/100)
- if you miss with a Wide Lens Overheat, it is the same as missing two Overheats in a row without Wide Lens

Edit 2:

I feel like a good example would be Hitmonlee. Like it wouldn't be a competitive set but it follows the theory:
View attachment 770973
Hitmonlee @ Wide Lens
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Jump Kick / Blaze Kick
- Foresight
- Focus Energy

With the ability + Wide Lens its like he gets a free Black Belt + a virtually perfect accurate High Jump Kick move. He wouldn't have to worry about missing his signature moves and getting damaged. Interestingly he can use Foresight, have enough SpDef to take a Ghost attack, and hopefully KO with a Jump Kick. Blaze Kick is there to hit Psychics and hopefully crit. Actually upon research, High Jump Kick may be enough to KO more frail Psychics like Kadabra.

It's like Wide Lens was designed for Hitmonlee. Like I can see this Hitmonlee on the Karate Master's team in the Dojo in Fire Red. It's like a special Hitmonlee.
Click to expand...
Not sure if I agree with the math here, but I agree with the sentiment. Its better to buff the accuracy of already accurate moves than it is to try and increase the accuracy of less accurate ones.

The way I like to think of it is: 9/10 means that you need to attack 7 of more times before you are expected to miss. Where as 99/100 means you need to attack 69 times before you are expected to miss.
On the other hand, 7/10 means that you need to attack 2 times before you are expected to miss, and 77/100 means that you need to attack 3 times before you are expected to miss.

So in the case of a 90% accurate move, you could expect to hit 62 more attacks before one misses, if you equipped a wide lens before using the move. But in the case of a 70% accurate move, you would only expect to hit 1 more than normal before missing.

In this sense, the pay off is much greater when equipping a wide lens for a more accurate move.
 
Oatmon said:
Not sure if I agree with the math here, but I agree with the sentiment. Its better to buff the accuracy of already accurate moves than it is to try and increase the accuracy of less accurate ones.

The way I like to think of it is: 9/10 means that you need to attack 7 of more times before you are expected to miss. Where as 99/100 means you need to attack 69 times before you are expected to miss.
On the other hand, 7/10 means that you need to attack 2 times before you are expected to miss, and 77/100 means that you need to attack 3 times before you are expected to miss.

So in the case of a 90% accurate move, you could expect to hit 62 more attacks before one misses, if you equipped a wide lens before using the move. But in the case of a 70% accurate move, you would only expect to hit 1 more than normal before missing.

In this sense, the pay off is much greater when equipping a wide lens for a more accurate move.
Click to expand...
Not sure if I agree with your math but yea the pay off seems greater when equipping for more accurate moves, since it just misses less, and the whole point of using Wide Lens is to not miss.
 
Anti-lead Charizard:

charizard.png

Charizard @ Salac Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
IVs: 30 HP
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Fire Punch
- Roost

I've been trying this Charizard as a lead and have been having some success. If the other player leads with a Steel other than Empoleon or Heatran its a pretty easy set-up and lets you poke holes in the other team. Interestingly I'm running Roost over Earthquake or Thunder Punch just because I found it to be useful in potentially opening sweeps. Meaning if Charizard gets low on health it can heal up to avoid priority or sand damage and potentially sweep the team. Obviously it is completely useless against Heatran but if they don't have a Heatran (or think you have Earthquake) you can damage a lot of the other team.

Doesn't like Aero, Empoleon, Hippo, Azelf leads.
 
Rest / Recycle Zong:
bronzong.png

Bronzong @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Rest
- Recycle
- Toxic
- Earthquake

Once I lost my fire type (and my loom) this set was unbeatable for my team. I almost flinched it down with my Jirachi but it would just Recycle and Rest up. This set has potential.
 
dk said:
Knock/Protect Elephant:
:donphan:
Donphan @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Protect

this guy just refuses to die. i stole this from someone running a messed up mag/cm clef balance and i thought this donphan was so annoying i had to slot it in somewhere eventually---really surprised at how solid it is. maybe not anything revolutionary, but i really am not a fan of stealth rock donphan since it feels like its trying to do too much. protect makes it immortal, and knock off is the clickable button it really wants. you miss ice shard to a non-insignificant extent, but you can compensate with your teammates. in return, you get to use an absolute brick shithouse of a pokemon. probably mandatory to run with pursuit ttar.
Click to expand...

Litt the best Phan set rn imo, let me add some explantations :

- Knock helps to remove Lefties / Choice lock items from many annoying mons like Gyara / Zap / Gar / Lati / Mie / Tom / Skarm ( Shed Shell ) etc so they are less oppressive even if you have Tect to scout choice locked mons. With Sand ( TTar ) chip damage becomes massive.
- Protect makes you now really strong into Meta / Zong etc cause now you can bait the Boom and if you manage to do so, you saved your spinner which is also your ( or one of your ) physical wall. Protect changes everything on this mon, litt.
- SR Shard Phan is still fine I think but it loses vs every spinner of the tier except prob ... Forre ? Imo, it became harder to put SR up and spin later while Phan does spinning very well with Suit Trap support + running SR means no Tect = less effective vs Rockers with Boom.
- Phan was kinda bad early 2025 but now that aren't running automatically SR on it anymore, it's becoming, good, even very good rn. We see a lot of Phan on offense / balance in DPP Revival.

In this game for ex, Def Phan + SpD Zor won the game almost solo :
1760553316562.png

Now time to add some stuff :

Breloom DPP.png

Tamurkhan (Breloom) @ Toxic Orb / Sash
Ability: Effect Spore
- Focus Punch
- Superpower
- Seed Bomb / Facade or w/e if lead
- Spore


Underexplored as f, hits like a truck and has the surprise effect because Focus Punch took the place of Superpower for more firepower. Combined with Mach, it is very very good but now that players know the set sometimes it can be hard to make it work cause for ex your opp will predict with his Clef and starts Stossing your Loom which is zzz ...
But what happens if you combine both of them ? Depending of your speed you can surprise bulky Jirachi ( here ) or if you run a lot Atk you can remove Skarm opening the path for a Sub Rhyp or a Scizor for ex; overall any mon that feels " safe " after your Loom revealed Focus Punch ( Tran, Clef, Zong, Meta, Loom, any paraed mon ... ).
You just need back up vs Agility Empo / DD Tar and you will be really fine !


Udaï Khan out. Peace.
 
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:Metagross:
Metagross @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Gravity

I have been having a great time with this set as a lead. Gravity + EQ lets you put skarm, gyara, rotom and zapdos into really uncomfortable situations. A lot of teams just don't have anything that can switch into a gravity metagross.

Shuca berry also allows you to seriously damage offense teams, making it harder for gyara, swampert and opposing metagross to kill you.

Dropping explosion can suck at times, but gravity + eq gives you enough wallbreaking power and bullet punch lets you win interactions against offense's limited answers to this set.

There are also a bunch of potential gravity abusers like flygon, swampert, or even gengar to pair with this set.
 
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