The teams :
From DazzlingCream
From Sevenor3
From fidgety
From RaxelPepi55
From AngryPidgeon
- Votes start from now on. Deadline: Next Thursday, 9pm GMT+1
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OU DPP OU Teambuilding Competition
- Thread starter Oatmon
- Start date
From DazzlingCream
From Sevenor3
From fidgety
From RaxelPepi55
From AngryPidgeon
- Votes start from now on. Deadline: Next Thursday, 9pm GMT+1
My vote goes to Sevenor3
Gonna go with fidgety on this one. Tough call between him and Pidgeon though
Voting for my boi fidgety
minor nitpicks with angrypidgeons team, i think aggron shouldve gone slightly more dedicated into beating enemy clef, whether that be with 36 or so speed ivs to outspeed uninvested clef or to run focus punch, clefable is a nightmare mon in this mu and aggron being the guy to clown on her couldve really been sweet.
i also think clef>starmie on this team seeing as you have latias (who i think can run recover instead of healing wish)
That being said, angrypidgeons team is still my fav, im just really biased towards these structures in general lmao. Its also possible i see the team as slower than it actually is, which would void my criticisms
voting angrypidgeon
i also think clef>starmie on this team seeing as you have latias (who i think can run recover instead of healing wish)
That being said, angrypidgeons team is still my fav, im just really biased towards these structures in general lmao. Its also possible i see the team as slower than it actually is, which would void my criticisms
voting angrypidgeon
fidgety, celebi has amazing synergy with aggron, though I do think the team overall relies on pulling off the spin a bit too much
fidgety
fidgety
Congratulation to fidgety for winning this week!
The team : https://pokepast.es/cb3856a84b086b51
Now, you'll build around Shaymin!
Very forgotten Pokemon and another victim of clef presence (ban this guy). Although I think it's still quite cool, it could work just as well in an offensive team as in a defensive one (fun fact: it learns Sword Dance). Anyway, good luck
Kristyl D:
The team : https://pokepast.es/cb3856a84b086b51
Now, you'll build around Shaymin!
Very forgotten Pokemon and another victim of clef presence (ban this guy). Although I think it's still quite cool, it could work just as well in an offensive team as in a defensive one (fun fact: it learns Sword Dance). Anyway, good luck
Kristyl D:
Attachments
https://pokepast.es/c10723070043741d
Whats up everyone, i saw that Shaymin was the Pokemon of the week and since Shaymin is arguably one of my favorite mythicals ever, yk i had to get in on this mane. Team starts with a fire water grass core featuring Heatran, Shaymin, and Starmie. Originally i had Suicune over Starmie but i realized that this team is so dire into hazards so i decided to go Starmie over Suicune for this team. Then i slapped 2 scarfers on this team in Latias and Tyranitar, with Latias giving me a great MU into HO thanks to her amazing speed as well as having great coverage with both Draco Meteor and Thunderbolt, her and Heatran also synergize beautifully together due to their typings complimenting each other massively and she can also Healing Wish one of my teammates back to full if any of them get too low or status'd(I:E Tyranitar or Jirachi) while still having good utility vs defense with Trick, while Tyranitar give me another good form of speed control as well as a great Pursuiter thanks to his speed as well as a great check to Latias, Rotom, and Starmie on this team. Also Tyranitar is mainly being used over some other pursuiter like Scarf Scizor because i needed to reliably remove both Latias and Rotom(Scizor can remove Latias as well but fears hp fire variants of Latias a lot). Lastly, i went with jirachi as my last Pokemon for this team as it gives me a great check to SD Lucario and Scizor, something that this team desperately needed, while also giving me another good Steel-type alongside Heatran!
Whats up everyone, i saw that Shaymin was the Pokemon of the week and since Shaymin is arguably one of my favorite mythicals ever, yk i had to get in on this mane. Team starts with a fire water grass core featuring Heatran, Shaymin, and Starmie. Originally i had Suicune over Starmie but i realized that this team is so dire into hazards so i decided to go Starmie over Suicune for this team. Then i slapped 2 scarfers on this team in Latias and Tyranitar, with Latias giving me a great MU into HO thanks to her amazing speed as well as having great coverage with both Draco Meteor and Thunderbolt, her and Heatran also synergize beautifully together due to their typings complimenting each other massively and she can also Healing Wish one of my teammates back to full if any of them get too low or status'd(I:E Tyranitar or Jirachi) while still having good utility vs defense with Trick, while Tyranitar give me another good form of speed control as well as a great Pursuiter thanks to his speed as well as a great check to Latias, Rotom, and Starmie on this team. Also Tyranitar is mainly being used over some other pursuiter like Scarf Scizor because i needed to reliably remove both Latias and Rotom(Scizor can remove Latias as well but fears hp fire variants of Latias a lot). Lastly, i went with jirachi as my last Pokemon for this team as it gives me a great check to SD Lucario and Scizor, something that this team desperately needed, while also giving me another good Steel-type alongside Heatran!
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I mucked around a lot with Shaymin, so I've pulled a team out of the (three months ago) vault and given it some fresh eyes for this building comp. My premise when I made the team was to use the inherent FWG core of Shaymin/Heatran/Suicune but to free up the Latias set. Suicune is very commonly run with Healing Wish as it greatly benefits from the full refresh after it has finished it's defensive duties in the early to mid game. Usually this comes from Latias, as it is the best user of it. Jirachi is another candidate, but when looking at how to take advantage of the FWG, I've gone with Shaymin in that role. Shaymin has the benefit of being exceptional in to Tyranitar, so I went with the creep defensive spread.
The team is in huge need of ways to handle Heatran, which is why I went for the EQ def Latias. I know it's considered to be a bit of a wildcard or ineffective as a set, but I think it functions in its job well here. Initially this had a Pert lead just as I was also experimenting with it. But I've shuffled as the team had a pretty poor matchup in to Clef. I rejigged in to a Tox/Tect Trap Tran, and a rest/talk rachi to help a bit with the rough loom matchup.
https://pokepast.es/2600449da2070e56
The team is in huge need of ways to handle Heatran, which is why I went for the EQ def Latias. I know it's considered to be a bit of a wildcard or ineffective as a set, but I think it functions in its job well here. Initially this had a Pert lead just as I was also experimenting with it. But I've shuffled as the team had a pretty poor matchup in to Clef. I rejigged in to a Tox/Tect Trap Tran, and a rest/talk rachi to help a bit with the rough loom matchup.
https://pokepast.es/2600449da2070e56
https://pokepast.es/77eb613ce6245eed
"Shaymin's Revenge"
On today's episode of "Flandrs slaps a choice item on the featured mon and calls it innovation," we have a Choice Specs Shaymin squad! In all seriousness, while I do think Shaymin is basically unviable, this is probably the set I'd hate using the least in a serious game. I tried putting it on an offbeat Mag offense squad that abuses double Healing Wish to cheat defensively, and I actually really enjoy it! But first, the obligatory explanation for why my chosen Shay set isn't outclassed by Celebi:
Revenge is a dish best served cute...
I already discussed most of why I chose Specs as the set to build around, but I should also explain what it's doing in the lead slot. I used to have Swampert as the lead since it's the safe choice, and this cast of characters really gets mileage from early rocks, but in testing I found that Pert frequently took too much damage to fill other important defensive roles that I needed it for, like checking Agiligross and DDnite and keeping rocks up against Starmie. I could switch Pert T1 to avoid this, but the leads I struggled with most were aggro ones like Azelf and Empoleon, whose teams are adept at preventing future rocking opportunities with sheer offensive pressure. Thus, I needed a replacement. And as it turns out, Shaymin is actually a solid attacking lead! It majorly threatens every common lead with its coverage besides Zapdos (gives Pert free rocks), Latias (handled by steels), and Skarmory/Bronzong (handled by Mag). Shaymin is also decent at shutting down lead Breloom, which made me feel better about a threat I felt overly weak to before.
Ol' reliable.
I love Swampert, and I love its place here. The synergy it has with Shay is generally excellent, and combined with Mag they form a potent bulky offense core that's really only stopped by Latias, but even it can be worn down and eventually brought into HP Ice, Ice Punch, or Meteor Mash range. The sheer amount of pressure these two put on Starmie and Donphan also means Gengar isn't really pressured to spinblock all that often, letting me preserve it for what it's actually on the team to do: kill stuff real good.
Shaymin the Hedgehog's famous rival, Dr. Eggmag!
Magnet Rise Zone was a no-brainer. The team needs help against Skarm, Zong, SD Scizor, and bulky Metagross, all of which are handled very nicely in this slot. It's not ideal to use Mag as your primary Draco absorber, especially with a lead that gives it opportunities like Shaymin does, but Protect + Leftovers makes it genuinely solid in this role. I had it Modest for a while to really power through Jirachi and bulky Scizor, but eventually I swapped to Timid for more help against Breloom and Machamp. I will say that Protect Mag teams make me wish I could afford another last move a lot of the time; in this case I'd really love Twave for Latias and such.
Everyone's favorite undead pipe bomb!
Using Life Orb Gengar is the epitome of greed, but Healing Wish spam is a great way to support my addiction to it. I conceptualized another version of the team at one point that used scarf Rotom here, and that would've helped a ton to free up the Latias slot, but I actually think Gar's unique tools are quite well-used. Taunt is great to shut down hazard attempts and stop Breloom from getting another Spore off after pivoting out of Shaymin. Boom is extremely valuable to soft-check a ton of slower, bulkier threats and blow up key walls like Blissey, which is a big annoyance for this team otherwise. The momentum is also great for getting a free Healing Wish off, giving Shaymin an easy Seed Flare, or creating the ideal spot for Metagross to boost up (often in front of TTar).
Hey, it's common for a reason...
I believe the saying goes "if you have an empty slot, it can't hurt to add Scarf Latias." However, I had two empty slots at this point, so my choice was a bit more deliberate than that. I needed a more solid fighter switch-in, an extra fire and water resist, and an all-purpose revenge killer, so here we are. I will say that this team wasn't always double Healing Wish; at first, I saw Shaymin as an opportunity to use the extra moveslot on Latias more freely, but neither of the options I tried (Dragon Pulse and Twave) really gave enough value in testing to justify their inclusion. However, someone else might still prefer Dpulse here, I wouldn't blame them at all for that choice.
Why is it the perfect glue? Because it glues your mons inside their Pokeballs after sweeping them.
Agiligross is neat. I have absolutely no clue why I only use it here and not in ADV, but that's beside the point; this is an excellent wincon for capitalizing on Shaymin's wallbreaking services due to bulky Waters and Grounds being public enemy #1 for it. I also needed a backup Dragon check and especially a proper DD Tar check, hence the Shuca Berry where I'd otherwise want a Lum for stuff like Latias Twave, Jirachi Bslam, and RT Rotom Will-O-Wisp. I might change it back later, you could make an argument for using Tankpert to help with the Tar issue. I felt that Zen Headbutt was a necessary evil here for the help it gives against Swampert, Gyarados, Rotom, and bulky Breloom.
"Shaymin's Revenge"On today's episode of "Flandrs slaps a choice item on the featured mon and calls it innovation," we have a Choice Specs Shaymin squad! In all seriousness, while I do think Shaymin is basically unviable, this is probably the set I'd hate using the least in a serious game. I tried putting it on an offbeat Mag offense squad that abuses double Healing Wish to cheat defensively, and I actually really enjoy it! But first, the obligatory explanation for why my chosen Shay set isn't outclassed by Celebi:
-Seed Flare go brrrr! You can cheese your way through almost any check if you get that SpDef drop, and in general you can reach a lot of calcs that Celebi can't replicate, at least not without that exploitable Leaf Storm drop that gets it easily trapped by TTar.
-Coverage is just good enough to threaten all the things it needs to.
-Psychic typing is more hindrance than help as a specs attacker. It's offensively useless and you become weak to a bunch of new attacks, including Pursuit. This also makes choiced Shay a better Healing Wish user than choiced Bi, because its wish can't be shut down by ghosts or a Speed-boosted TTar.
-252+ SpA Choice Specs Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 208-246 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. This set has problems, but Clef sure as hell isn't one of them.
-Coverage is just good enough to threaten all the things it needs to.
-Psychic typing is more hindrance than help as a specs attacker. It's offensively useless and you become weak to a bunch of new attacks, including Pursuit. This also makes choiced Shay a better Healing Wish user than choiced Bi, because its wish can't be shut down by ghosts or a Speed-boosted TTar.
-252+ SpA Choice Specs Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 208-246 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. This set has problems, but Clef sure as hell isn't one of them.
Revenge is a dish best served cute...I already discussed most of why I chose Specs as the set to build around, but I should also explain what it's doing in the lead slot. I used to have Swampert as the lead since it's the safe choice, and this cast of characters really gets mileage from early rocks, but in testing I found that Pert frequently took too much damage to fill other important defensive roles that I needed it for, like checking Agiligross and DDnite and keeping rocks up against Starmie. I could switch Pert T1 to avoid this, but the leads I struggled with most were aggro ones like Azelf and Empoleon, whose teams are adept at preventing future rocking opportunities with sheer offensive pressure. Thus, I needed a replacement. And as it turns out, Shaymin is actually a solid attacking lead! It majorly threatens every common lead with its coverage besides Zapdos (gives Pert free rocks), Latias (handled by steels), and Skarmory/Bronzong (handled by Mag). Shaymin is also decent at shutting down lead Breloom, which made me feel better about a threat I felt overly weak to before.
Ol' reliable.I love Swampert, and I love its place here. The synergy it has with Shay is generally excellent, and combined with Mag they form a potent bulky offense core that's really only stopped by Latias, but even it can be worn down and eventually brought into HP Ice, Ice Punch, or Meteor Mash range. The sheer amount of pressure these two put on Starmie and Donphan also means Gengar isn't really pressured to spinblock all that often, letting me preserve it for what it's actually on the team to do: kill stuff real good.
Shaymin the Hedgehog's famous rival, Dr. Eggmag!Magnet Rise Zone was a no-brainer. The team needs help against Skarm, Zong, SD Scizor, and bulky Metagross, all of which are handled very nicely in this slot. It's not ideal to use Mag as your primary Draco absorber, especially with a lead that gives it opportunities like Shaymin does, but Protect + Leftovers makes it genuinely solid in this role. I had it Modest for a while to really power through Jirachi and bulky Scizor, but eventually I swapped to Timid for more help against Breloom and Machamp. I will say that Protect Mag teams make me wish I could afford another last move a lot of the time; in this case I'd really love Twave for Latias and such.
Everyone's favorite undead pipe bomb!Using Life Orb Gengar is the epitome of greed, but Healing Wish spam is a great way to support my addiction to it. I conceptualized another version of the team at one point that used scarf Rotom here, and that would've helped a ton to free up the Latias slot, but I actually think Gar's unique tools are quite well-used. Taunt is great to shut down hazard attempts and stop Breloom from getting another Spore off after pivoting out of Shaymin. Boom is extremely valuable to soft-check a ton of slower, bulkier threats and blow up key walls like Blissey, which is a big annoyance for this team otherwise. The momentum is also great for getting a free Healing Wish off, giving Shaymin an easy Seed Flare, or creating the ideal spot for Metagross to boost up (often in front of TTar).
Hey, it's common for a reason...I believe the saying goes "if you have an empty slot, it can't hurt to add Scarf Latias." However, I had two empty slots at this point, so my choice was a bit more deliberate than that. I needed a more solid fighter switch-in, an extra fire and water resist, and an all-purpose revenge killer, so here we are. I will say that this team wasn't always double Healing Wish; at first, I saw Shaymin as an opportunity to use the extra moveslot on Latias more freely, but neither of the options I tried (Dragon Pulse and Twave) really gave enough value in testing to justify their inclusion. However, someone else might still prefer Dpulse here, I wouldn't blame them at all for that choice.
Why is it the perfect glue? Because it glues your mons inside their Pokeballs after sweeping them.Agiligross is neat. I have absolutely no clue why I only use it here and not in ADV, but that's beside the point; this is an excellent wincon for capitalizing on Shaymin's wallbreaking services due to bulky Waters and Grounds being public enemy #1 for it. I also needed a backup Dragon check and especially a proper DD Tar check, hence the Shuca Berry where I'd otherwise want a Lum for stuff like Latias Twave, Jirachi Bslam, and RT Rotom Will-O-Wisp. I might change it back later, you could make an argument for using Tankpert to help with the Tar issue. I felt that Zen Headbutt was a necessary evil here for the help it gives against Swampert, Gyarados, Rotom, and bulky Breloom.
Shaymin's movepool is limited and therefore also the variety of sets. I opted for Substitute over Protect in the Leech Seeder set, making it more offensive.
I hope that the idea of Tyraniboah can inspire you, it is a set that I find extremely useful at this moment in the mg.
The strategy is quite standard:
- Dacty places SRs
- If there is a steel locked, Zone kills it
- Shaymin and Swampert take advantage of sr (seed/roar)
- Gengar takes advantage of the absence of steel
- Tyranitar cleans
I just quickly completed 3 ladder battles:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2132918722
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2132913461
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2132908424
There are certainly many threats and I should have tested it more because I haven't built for a long time but I like the strategy and I want to post it, also because I imagine that the time remaining is short. I have always prioritized an effective strategy rather than covering the entire threat list.
I hope that the idea of Tyraniboah can inspire you, it is a set that I find extremely useful at this moment in the mg.
The strategy is quite standard:
- Dacty places SRs
- If there is a steel locked, Zone kills it
- Shaymin and Swampert take advantage of sr (seed/roar)
- Gengar takes advantage of the absence of steel
- Tyranitar cleans
I just quickly completed 3 ladder battles:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2132918722
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2132913461
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2132908424
There are certainly many threats and I should have tested it more because I haven't built for a long time but I like the strategy and I want to post it, also because I imagine that the time remaining is short. I have always prioritized an effective strategy rather than covering the entire threat list.
after waiting to the last minute to get something together Cubic Skunk and i have returned to our previously abandoned Shaymin project and pulled something together, Restalk Shaymin Balance.
https://pokepast.es/9022f8f936455013
The core idea is seed flare is a super strong move with poor accuracy and pp, so restalk lets you improve shaymin's longevity while getting extra uses of seed flare. taunt scarftar is back from spl13 to mess with HO leads trying to force this team into their pace, though eq is definitely an option to help with the odd CM rachi variant which can be problematic otherwise. Using zone allows min to run the stronger EP for heatran rather than having to worry about skarm. Nidoqueen is just a really good mon on these types of teams providing a lot of defensive value that is hard to find in one slot while providing Tspikes that this team absolutely appreciates allowing it to make progress even on more defensive turns. The limitations of shaymin and zone kinda left rachi trying to do a lot so alongside tspikes we opted to drop body slam so i could have fire punch and protect. Rotom can help protect hazards and is another mon with a lot of longevity to leverage tspikes and can check a lot in a pinch (looks at Gyarados). This team is a blast to play, though I (and cubic would probably agree) would kill for a second water resist, its been reliable in testing for all the jank it looks like at a glance.
https://pokepast.es/9022f8f936455013
The core idea is seed flare is a super strong move with poor accuracy and pp, so restalk lets you improve shaymin's longevity while getting extra uses of seed flare. taunt scarftar is back from spl13 to mess with HO leads trying to force this team into their pace, though eq is definitely an option to help with the odd CM rachi variant which can be problematic otherwise. Using zone allows min to run the stronger EP for heatran rather than having to worry about skarm. Nidoqueen is just a really good mon on these types of teams providing a lot of defensive value that is hard to find in one slot while providing Tspikes that this team absolutely appreciates allowing it to make progress even on more defensive turns. The limitations of shaymin and zone kinda left rachi trying to do a lot so alongside tspikes we opted to drop body slam so i could have fire punch and protect. Rotom can help protect hazards and is another mon with a lot of longevity to leverage tspikes and can check a lot in a pinch (looks at Gyarados). This team is a blast to play, though I (and cubic would probably agree) would kill for a second water resist, its been reliable in testing for all the jank it looks like at a glance.
a modest proposal
https://pokepast.es/17c8755b9af339d9
Heatran:
Scarf-tran outspends taunt leads to get up stealth rock, which the rest of this team appreciates. If it gets to pivot out, heatran gets to come back in on a lot of inconvenient threats the rest of the team faces (opposing heatran, scizor, etc.). Explosion is necessary for blasting through clef or a pivoting starmie. Generally speaking, heatran just blows things up with fire blast because of its nice special attack stat. This is not meant to be innovative but it serves as the first pillar of a fire-water-grass core here.
Shaymin:
Shaymin is generally outclassed by Celebi in a number of roles because the stats are identical but celebi gets rocks, t-wave, and recover. However, Shaymin has two key advantages: 1) Seed flare can bust open games if the rolls hit, 2) No psychic typing means it stands up to Tyranitar a bit better. I've allocated enough speed EV's to beat hasty heatran, though if the meta is rolling with modest on the standard non-scarf sets 254 may be an appropriate bench mark. 252 EVs go to Special Attack, along with Modest and life orb, to just punish anything that wants to come in with seed flare. Having an expected 42.5% chance to drop the opposing SpDef by 2 means that things that might otherwise counter shay (Scizor) may need to be switched out or KO'd on the next turn. The remaining EVs go into bulk to preserve longevity. Sleep talk is thrown in the fourth slot so that Shaymin can come in on Spore and surprise breloom (or potentially KO if you roll HP Ice) -- and then switch out and shrug off the sleep if breloom switches out. Rest could be favored over sleep talk but I find it hard to find time to rest on offensive Shaymin. The reminder is thrown into bulk to preserve longevity. Shaymin also forms the second of the fire-water-grass core.
Gyarados:
Infernape can be a bit problematic to pivot around, and Gyarados checks it nicely while also providing some offensive firepower to pressure opposing passive mons. Intimidate is also nice to have given that this team runs a lot of bulk, meaning that its easier to force switches. Outrage is there for fun over stone edge, but beating non-scarf Lati after a +1 and taking a dent out of starmie if need be is also nice.
Metagross:
Shaymin is not big on opposing Latias, enter SpDef Metagross. This thing is honestly a monster and I've used it on a handful of teams to good success. SpDef gross just eats draco meteors for breakfast (32 - 37% from Lati), and demolishes it with pursuit. Starmie looking to rapid spin also don't love this thing, where pursuit scares it into staying before assaulting it with thunder punch. Thunder punch also prevents gyarados from coming in and setting up, which was a frequent issue with the sets where I instead ran toxic. EQ beats up on grounded mons, and if Metagross is at full health it can take a scarf heatran fire blast and hit back with a KO. Protect is incredibly valuable here, as it lets Metagross scout U-turn Flygon to chase with pursuit, figure out rotom sets, heal up to take multiple LO starmie hydro pumps, etc. Here I've ran 252+ on special defense for max protection against lati. I've toyed with adamant sets or tuned EVs but I've found the investment into special bulk ultimately pays off. Metagross' natural attack stat is sufficient to fill the role it's put in here. It can be a bit passive against dragonite and scizor, but this team has switch ins for these.
Nidoqueen:
A lot of Nidoqueen's teammates are good at chunking opposing threats but not so good at sweeping. Toxic spikes support can be a nasty cost for switching in to some of the stronger attacks doled out by Gyara/Shaymin/Heatran. Nidoqueen also eats opposing toxic spikes to prevent shaymin from further health depletion, and it can be a soft counter to fighting types and dragonite. For this reason, I've gone with a fairly standard defensive investment set.
Jirachi:
I decided to run a wish + protect set to provide more of a support role given the offensive threats already rostered. Max HP let jirachi pass gigantic wishes to Gyarados and Shaymin, and can help Nidoqueen come back to wall things after getting beat up while setting T-spikes. I've run enough speed EVs to beat Tyranitar and invested in special bulk to serve as a failsafe to a Lati crit on Gross. Truthfully, I just needed something bulky to pass wishes here and Clef wasn't making the cut. The threat of Jirachi being versatile is usually enough to cause teams to sell out on dealing with it, even if the set ends up being pretty vanilla.
Some replays:
I think I got lucky on the match-ups and I don't think my decision making was the best in this one, but here is an example of shay just mowing things down:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2133143239
Fun demonstration of sleep-talk ruining breloom momentum. Also Metagross talks through a rotom set that was running specs before it tricked them off.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2133145923-2spa4lu299h3zvyd5qej0dmlalqnnhipw
Not a highly rated battle but again, Shaymin gets to ruin sleep.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2133155977-ywelgq1h6i7y4ggw6vm0xypon889uispw
https://pokepast.es/17c8755b9af339d9
Heatran:
Scarf-tran outspends taunt leads to get up stealth rock, which the rest of this team appreciates. If it gets to pivot out, heatran gets to come back in on a lot of inconvenient threats the rest of the team faces (opposing heatran, scizor, etc.). Explosion is necessary for blasting through clef or a pivoting starmie. Generally speaking, heatran just blows things up with fire blast because of its nice special attack stat. This is not meant to be innovative but it serves as the first pillar of a fire-water-grass core here.
Shaymin:
Shaymin is generally outclassed by Celebi in a number of roles because the stats are identical but celebi gets rocks, t-wave, and recover. However, Shaymin has two key advantages: 1) Seed flare can bust open games if the rolls hit, 2) No psychic typing means it stands up to Tyranitar a bit better. I've allocated enough speed EV's to beat hasty heatran, though if the meta is rolling with modest on the standard non-scarf sets 254 may be an appropriate bench mark. 252 EVs go to Special Attack, along with Modest and life orb, to just punish anything that wants to come in with seed flare. Having an expected 42.5% chance to drop the opposing SpDef by 2 means that things that might otherwise counter shay (Scizor) may need to be switched out or KO'd on the next turn. The remaining EVs go into bulk to preserve longevity. Sleep talk is thrown in the fourth slot so that Shaymin can come in on Spore and surprise breloom (or potentially KO if you roll HP Ice) -- and then switch out and shrug off the sleep if breloom switches out. Rest could be favored over sleep talk but I find it hard to find time to rest on offensive Shaymin. The reminder is thrown into bulk to preserve longevity. Shaymin also forms the second of the fire-water-grass core.
Gyarados:
Infernape can be a bit problematic to pivot around, and Gyarados checks it nicely while also providing some offensive firepower to pressure opposing passive mons. Intimidate is also nice to have given that this team runs a lot of bulk, meaning that its easier to force switches. Outrage is there for fun over stone edge, but beating non-scarf Lati after a +1 and taking a dent out of starmie if need be is also nice.
Metagross:
Shaymin is not big on opposing Latias, enter SpDef Metagross. This thing is honestly a monster and I've used it on a handful of teams to good success. SpDef gross just eats draco meteors for breakfast (32 - 37% from Lati), and demolishes it with pursuit. Starmie looking to rapid spin also don't love this thing, where pursuit scares it into staying before assaulting it with thunder punch. Thunder punch also prevents gyarados from coming in and setting up, which was a frequent issue with the sets where I instead ran toxic. EQ beats up on grounded mons, and if Metagross is at full health it can take a scarf heatran fire blast and hit back with a KO. Protect is incredibly valuable here, as it lets Metagross scout U-turn Flygon to chase with pursuit, figure out rotom sets, heal up to take multiple LO starmie hydro pumps, etc. Here I've ran 252+ on special defense for max protection against lati. I've toyed with adamant sets or tuned EVs but I've found the investment into special bulk ultimately pays off. Metagross' natural attack stat is sufficient to fill the role it's put in here. It can be a bit passive against dragonite and scizor, but this team has switch ins for these.
Nidoqueen:
A lot of Nidoqueen's teammates are good at chunking opposing threats but not so good at sweeping. Toxic spikes support can be a nasty cost for switching in to some of the stronger attacks doled out by Gyara/Shaymin/Heatran. Nidoqueen also eats opposing toxic spikes to prevent shaymin from further health depletion, and it can be a soft counter to fighting types and dragonite. For this reason, I've gone with a fairly standard defensive investment set.
Jirachi:
I decided to run a wish + protect set to provide more of a support role given the offensive threats already rostered. Max HP let jirachi pass gigantic wishes to Gyarados and Shaymin, and can help Nidoqueen come back to wall things after getting beat up while setting T-spikes. I've run enough speed EVs to beat Tyranitar and invested in special bulk to serve as a failsafe to a Lati crit on Gross. Truthfully, I just needed something bulky to pass wishes here and Clef wasn't making the cut. The threat of Jirachi being versatile is usually enough to cause teams to sell out on dealing with it, even if the set ends up being pretty vanilla.
Some replays:
I think I got lucky on the match-ups and I don't think my decision making was the best in this one, but here is an example of shay just mowing things down:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2133143239
Fun demonstration of sleep-talk ruining breloom momentum. Also Metagross talks through a rotom set that was running specs before it tricked them off.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2133145923-2spa4lu299h3zvyd5qej0dmlalqnnhipw
Not a highly rated battle but again, Shaymin gets to ruin sleep.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2133155977-ywelgq1h6i7y4ggw6vm0xypon889uispw
I came up with 3 Shaymin teams for this but only ended up testing the middle one but I found some decent success with it so figured I'd post:
https://pokepast.es/47aef75481781e1d
I've been testing Agility Gravity Metagross a bit before this and I decided it works pretty nicely on a Spikes Offense since Gravity makes Spikes do more damage if you can force a switch under Gravity. Spikes also lets the main Gravity abuser, Metagross be more threatening since stuff like Hippowdon and Swampert have a harder time switching in. Shaymin has good synergy here since it gives me a ground pivot that fits the pace of the team still, also under Gravity you can't really wall it due to Grass Whistle. That being said I found myself clicking Grass Whistle early game pretty often just because Shaymin is good at forcing switches you can get a good amount of turns to fish. OffCune gave me a good early game Wacan Gyara check and let my other Gravity abuser (Flygon) fit Fire Blast coverage. Chose Gengar as my spin-blocker since it can chip Scarf Rotom which is a threat to my team.
This team is kind of hard to use and inherently flawed but it felt good enough and I feel like Gravity deserves a lot more exploration tbh.
Shadoll Restcycles (pokepast.es)
saw the lack of shaymin stall in the thread and wanted to fix that (before realising why there was no shaymin stall in the thread), and also feeling like all the other shaymin teams using max speed max spatk fall WAY too quickly, to the point theres not much of a point in running rest
in theorycrafting this, i realised 4 things
1. shaymin needs seed flare to be worth running over celebi
2. seed flare fucking sucks
3. sleep talk cannot call focus punch
4. rest recycle chesto berry is underexplored
the idea of the team here is that each of your mons are like a resource more than anything else, and whenever you rest, you top up on that resource. the hope is that they run out of their resources faster than you do. if the jury would notice, this team has 5 users of the move rest. shaymins aromatherapy awakens them, then rests and switches out to repeat the cycle anew.
ok now thats out of the way, the recycle chesto duo explanation
using recycle becomes a charge for an insanely strong move in the context of these mons, and essentially makes it so that any pokemon incapable of 2hkoing either just... cant break them lmao. if theyre unable to 3hko, you can make progress on them, and if they cant 4hko then theyre idiots for not switching out.
there are four pokemon that i think have potential with this concept; the two displayed here, snorlax and magnezone. snorlax still has dpp lax issues, but he is at least helped out by it.
bronzong is physically unbreakable by anything it cant ohko. murks the shit out of a lot of mons and can switch in repeatedly. gyro/eq was chosen over boom, as this set intends to stay in for a long, long time (to the point of outlasting non-knock off stall mons) and toxic, as the things you want to click toxic on are dealt with very well with by shaymin.
claydol fixes the hazards issue a lot of the team has (you get more mileage per rest resource with rocks/spikes off, and i feel shaymin with rest honestly mandates a spinner), and psychic deals with the ghosts long-term. this is kind of more of a proof of concept, but i want to take rest recycle claydol without rapid spin a lot further, maybe with eq+ice beam, or eq+toxic, kind of operating as if swampert got recycle (i originally thought he did). this is your fighting type answer. should probably be running ice beam over psychic to fish for freezes and ice generally being a great offensive type
shaymin has the exact amount of speed needed to outspeed breloom metagross and skarm all of the time, and the hp needed to do something with that advantage. again, shaymin is a resource like anything else. walled by heatran like its nothing, but you should be fine into tran if you have literally anybody else alive that isnt bronzong and have been diligent with your claydol. shaymin flips the script on clefable by being the main way this team switches into clef, getting a chance to do shaymin things and reinvigorate your team
rest tar is the special counterpart to bronzong, in that it never fucking dies. this was chosen as the lead for early sand, taunt and because besides maybe heatran idk what else would be the lead
heatran is the rocker and also the only mon to not run rest. a lot of the time, making progress means getting heatran in without taking substantial chip damage. heatran is backed up defensively very well by shaymin and to an extent claydol.
suicune finishes off the fwg core and gives us a 5th rest user. you can also use heal bell vaporeon to take pressure off shaymin, since once the enemy knows your plan they can formulate a plan around abusing the fact that shaymin is increasingly forced to come in and shaymin itself is exploitable, but this build opted for the sheer strength given by suicune. this particular suicune is allowed to come in and out a lot more than others, and can repeatedly force issues without needing to commit, since you can rest and get shaymin in
im somewhat proud of the fact that this team wouldnt want celebi over shaymin, and the fact i got to experiment with a set thats been at the back of my mind, but this team itself is unoptimized. ill be returning to resticles claydol and bronzong, but not in the context of shaymin.
saw the lack of shaymin stall in the thread and wanted to fix that (before realising why there was no shaymin stall in the thread), and also feeling like all the other shaymin teams using max speed max spatk fall WAY too quickly, to the point theres not much of a point in running rest
in theorycrafting this, i realised 4 things
1. shaymin needs seed flare to be worth running over celebi
2. seed flare fucking sucks
3. sleep talk cannot call focus punch
4. rest recycle chesto berry is underexplored
the idea of the team here is that each of your mons are like a resource more than anything else, and whenever you rest, you top up on that resource. the hope is that they run out of their resources faster than you do. if the jury would notice, this team has 5 users of the move rest. shaymins aromatherapy awakens them, then rests and switches out to repeat the cycle anew.
ok now thats out of the way, the recycle chesto duo explanation
using recycle becomes a charge for an insanely strong move in the context of these mons, and essentially makes it so that any pokemon incapable of 2hkoing either just... cant break them lmao. if theyre unable to 3hko, you can make progress on them, and if they cant 4hko then theyre idiots for not switching out.
there are four pokemon that i think have potential with this concept; the two displayed here, snorlax and magnezone. snorlax still has dpp lax issues, but he is at least helped out by it.
bronzong is physically unbreakable by anything it cant ohko. murks the shit out of a lot of mons and can switch in repeatedly. gyro/eq was chosen over boom, as this set intends to stay in for a long, long time (to the point of outlasting non-knock off stall mons) and toxic, as the things you want to click toxic on are dealt with very well with by shaymin.
claydol fixes the hazards issue a lot of the team has (you get more mileage per rest resource with rocks/spikes off, and i feel shaymin with rest honestly mandates a spinner), and psychic deals with the ghosts long-term. this is kind of more of a proof of concept, but i want to take rest recycle claydol without rapid spin a lot further, maybe with eq+ice beam, or eq+toxic, kind of operating as if swampert got recycle (i originally thought he did). this is your fighting type answer. should probably be running ice beam over psychic to fish for freezes and ice generally being a great offensive type
shaymin has the exact amount of speed needed to outspeed breloom metagross and skarm all of the time, and the hp needed to do something with that advantage. again, shaymin is a resource like anything else. walled by heatran like its nothing, but you should be fine into tran if you have literally anybody else alive that isnt bronzong and have been diligent with your claydol. shaymin flips the script on clefable by being the main way this team switches into clef, getting a chance to do shaymin things and reinvigorate your team
rest tar is the special counterpart to bronzong, in that it never fucking dies. this was chosen as the lead for early sand, taunt and because besides maybe heatran idk what else would be the lead
heatran is the rocker and also the only mon to not run rest. a lot of the time, making progress means getting heatran in without taking substantial chip damage. heatran is backed up defensively very well by shaymin and to an extent claydol.
suicune finishes off the fwg core and gives us a 5th rest user. you can also use heal bell vaporeon to take pressure off shaymin, since once the enemy knows your plan they can formulate a plan around abusing the fact that shaymin is increasingly forced to come in and shaymin itself is exploitable, but this build opted for the sheer strength given by suicune. this particular suicune is allowed to come in and out a lot more than others, and can repeatedly force issues without needing to commit, since you can rest and get shaymin in
im somewhat proud of the fact that this team wouldnt want celebi over shaymin, and the fact i got to experiment with a set thats been at the back of my mind, but this team itself is unoptimized. ill be returning to resticles claydol and bronzong, but not in the context of shaymin.
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