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Tournaments DPPPL VI Format Discussion

Kristyl

Kristyl

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Hey guys!

It's about time for DPPPL, signups will be going up April 5th. We felt like it'd be a good idea to do a discussion thread on the format to see what people want for this edition of the tournament, as a reminder this was the format last year:

DPP Ubers
DPP Ubers + Farceus
DPP OU
DPP OU
DPP OU BO3
DPP UU
DPP UU
DPP NU
DPP PU
DPP LC

To get discussion started I'll start by asking a few questions I think are important:

1. How many UU slots vs OU slot should we have?
2. Do Ubers players like having both Ubers Farceus and regular Ubers or would you prefer it to just be Ubers?
3. How many Bo3 slots in OU should we have?
4. Should any other tiers be considered for DPP PL?

Tagging last year's managers and retains to hopefully get stuff going: eden Spitfire Vulpix03 Magician a fairy awyp BIG WILL 16bit Void Howkings vivalospride tko Laurel OmBrArch Oathkeeper JabbaTheGriffin TyCarter Christos dunoks Lazuli burstbean BeatsBlack Pkel SweeTforU Hacker Larry watashi
 
I'll start, this is just my opinion and not on behalf of the mod team or hosts.

1. I think we should reduce UU to 1 slot, either in favour of another OU slot or a new tier.

2. Some managers said last year that Ubers signups were too few and we should get rid of Farceus, I think I agree that it'd be better to just have regular Ubers but I'm interested in the opinion of the Ubers players

3. Alright my preferred solution for how many Bo3 slots is to just do 1 Bo3 slot with the option of gentlemen agreements to Bo3 in the other slots. Why I prefer this is because I feel like we get more good matchups if we just do 1 Bo3 slot, as people tend to put their strongest player in the Bo3 slot, I think this makes for a better spectating experience and more hype. Of course the other slots should be able to Bo3 too if they agree to and their managers do too.

4. I don't know which tier would really be considered, please let us know! If there's enough demand for it we'll consider it.

I'll also say that I think we should stick with 10 slots and I don't really like any "OU but mew is free" type slots.

My proposed format would probably be:

DPP Ubers
DPP OU
DPP OU
DPP OU
DPP OU BO3
something new?
DPP UU
DPP NU
DPP PU
DPP LC
 
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I was satisfied with last year's format, with the sole exception of Farceus. It's not an enjoyable format to build, play, or watch, I don't recall a single positive thing said from any starter, sub, or supporter I had in Ubers/Farc over both years, other than like, maybe evakiyama? I recall Evuelf not enjoying the format and Taka as well IIRC. The format has an absurd auction tax, regularly has barely double digit legit players worth considering to start (and a number of those are likely picks for Ubers as well), and is just not worth including in this tournament IMO.

To be clear, I was satisfied with last year's format, but I don't necessarily mind change in other spaces. Just please reconsider Farceus' inclusion.
 
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If the DPPPL playerbase doesn't enjoy Farceus I think we can easily replace it with a second Ubers slot, the interest for that tier is always there and we can benefit from the engagement created by the revival tour + RoA's spotlight ladder currently. Same can't be said for UU imo and we should prob explore an option like 4th OU > 2nd UU
 
DPP Draft was recently in Drafts latest team tour, and the reception to it seemed positive. The tier has good turnout in the offsite tournaments it gets ran in, and its onsite tour here had good turnout. Draft has been included in a few tournaments lately (it’s been included in a few Natdex tours, ORASCL, and a few smaller tours) and it’s always ended up working out in the end logistics wise. We’d need a break week to draft teams for it, but if that’s acceptable I think if new tiers are wanted it should be considered.
 
I would drop one Farceus slot and one UU slot. I don’t mind what replaces them, but I think Farceus should go and one UU slot is more than enough. It could be another OU slot, a new tier (draft? monotype?), or even classic Ubers instead of Farceus.

Regarding the OU slots, I agree with keeping only one fixed BO3 slot and letting the other matches be played as BO3 if both players agree.

I’m also in favor of introducing a BO3 or BO5 Blitz slot, or possibly a SLAM BO5 slot (very positive for the former, not sure about the latter).

As I already mentioned on the Discord server, I’d also like the idea of having one OU slot where the banlist changes every week, either adding or removing one or more Pokémon (for example: no Jirachi but Salamence allowed, either both together or just one of them). I think it could be very fun, although I understand that some people might not like the idea.
 
Let’s definitely drop Farceus, I don’t think anyone (outside of maybe 5 players) actively enjoy it.

I like the idea of a new tier. I will throw out some ideas:
- The original VGCs (I think like 2008-2010 was DPP)
- DPP Doubles
- DPP Monotype
- DPP Draft

I don’t support any type of bo5. It’s just too much work. I do support the random ban each week — whether it’s viable for tiering policy or not i.e. no Iron Head on Jirachi or +Salamence
 
I’ve been a big proponent over the years of keeping farc, but it might be time to let it go (or just allow farc in regular ubers…)

I would drop the 2nd UU and Ubers slot and replace them with 1 OU and 1 BO3 Ubers/OU/UU slot. A unique part about DPP when it was CG was that Smogon Tour was those 3 tiers. Seems like it would be cool to replicate that as a throwback to the olden times. But that may just be the boomer in me talking.
 
I would propose having a DPP DOU slot. It's been featured in Doubles Derby, a recent team tournament that's just started, and they recently banned Explosion, so it would be good to see how much interest this would get here, as well as attracting the doubles community.

Draft is definitely popular amongst the community in general, and this should also be considered, featuring in a lot of team tours lately (e.g. ORASCL, etc).

A suggestion that will likely be less-received would be adding DPP ZU. I think it's a format that can be fairly easy for unfamiliar players to get into, and it's featured in the recent ZUCL.

I definitely think the BO3 DPP slot should stay regardless - as much as people prefer BO1 in team tours, they also prefer BO3 as so many factors can happen in one individual match.
 
a fairy said:
I was satisfied with last year's format, with the sole exception of Farceus. It's not an enjoyable format to build, play, or watch, I don't recall a single positive thing said from any starter, sub, or supporter I had in Ubers/Farc over both years, other than like, maybe evakiyama? I recall Evuelf not enjoying the format and Taka as well IIRC. The format has an absurd auction tax, regularly has barely double digit legit players worth considering to start (and a number of those are likely picks for Ubers as well), and is just not worth including in this tournament IMO.

To be clear, I was satisfied with last year's format, but I don't necessarily mind change in other spaces. Just please reconsider Farceus' inclusion.
Click to expand...
DPP Ubers players oftentimes find Farceus to be another alternative to the format that offers a different set of lines than Ubers. I'm not passionate about it staying and don't have a horse in the race either way, but it is a tier with legitimate merit and it has its fans for sure.

However I appreciate the argument that it does dilute the DPP ubers base and that there could be another way to expand the playerbase to other communities.

That is why I would second adding Draft into the mix. I don't hate on doubles, I respect it as a format, but I think that in terms of support that you are much more likely to receive teammate/managerial support if you are in the draft slot, whereas a singular doubles slot will probably not have a lot of people able or willing to help on the team. A good example of this would be something like ALTPL, where the Orre Colosseum players mostly had to work by themselves unless they were lucky enough to have someone else who magically knew doubles.

In something like ADV LTL(or a DPP LTL, idk if you guys have done that but it's a great idea I'd love to see implemented), the DOU and Orre slots can and have bounced ideas and tests off each other since their formats, while different, still operate within a doubles perspective. I really hate the idea of a slot being "set and forget" so to speak, and I think the best way to help encourage interactivity would be draft. I'm not saying Farceus should go away, but I am saying if you're going to do that, Draft is the best addition possible in my personal opinion.

Also Incognition 's idea of adding ZU is not unwelcome in my book, but I think that Draft probably offers more intrigue overall.
 
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In my opinion Farceus is superior to regular DPP Ubers both in terms of building and playing and I know a significant amount of DPP Ubers mains would agree with me. The Farceus playerbase has no shortage of both talent and willingness to play Farc in teamtour; last edition Farceus pool in particular was incredibly competitive, and the games were very high quality and enjoyable to watch.

Speaking as someone who played Farc last DPPPL and grinds the tier a ton, Farceus is firmly my favorite tier of all time, and my experiences building and starting in Farceus every week last DPPPL were some of the most positive experiences I’ve ever had in a teamtour. I think it would be a huge bummer to remove the only opportunity to play Farc in a teamtour for the entire year.

TL;DR either keep the Farc slot or free Farceus in DPP Ubers :3
 
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burstbean said:
Add Dpp OU+ Mence，wanna see something new after machamp and spore banned.

PS: Selfishly don't want uu removed as sleep banned short time before.
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Oh right I forgot to add my thoughts on this. I think DPP UU really could use the extra slot in this tour to help facilitate meta development following this pretty monumental change. Two slots or bust
 
I hate making long, meaningful posts on this site, but I feel like I have to because this is one of the few things I actually care about.

1. DPP UU should not be reduced to one slot (keep 2 instead).

DPP UU has historically been one of the most balanced and beloved tiers in DPP, and after the Sleep Ban it has arguably become even better. Last year there were a lot of signups for DPP UU and the competition level was very healthy. The player base is larger than DPP NU, DPP PU, and DPP LC, so I don’t think it makes sense for it to be reduced to a single slot compared to those lower tiers.

2. DPP Farceus has been a consistent hassle over the last two years.

There’s always an unfair premium attached to players who sign up for it because the player pool is so small. In previous seasons with my teams, when someone signs up for both Ubers and Farceus, they almost always prefer to play Ubers anyway. If we want to take the simpler route and just make it two Ubers slots, that would be completely fine. The Ubers player pool is much larger than Farceus, and it would remove the need to pay a premium just to tier-lock Farceus players. I’ll suggest a couple alternative ideas at the end as well.

3. One Bo3 slot is great as it is.

I don’t think we need more than that. It’s been a great addition, but not every DPP OU player has the time to prep three teams every week for a team tournament. If both players agree beforehand, gentleman’s Bo3 > Bo1 for a single slot should also be acceptable.

4. The Draft community is growing and deserves a chance.
Because of that, I see two possible directions we could go:

Option 1:
Keep 2 UU slots and replace Farceus with Ubers, resulting in 2 UU + 2 Ubers.

DPP Ubers
DPP Ubers
DPP OU
DPP OU
DPP OU Bo3
DPP UU
DPP UU
DPP NU
DPP PU
DPP LC
Click to expand...

Option 2:
Drop one UU slot and remove Farceus in favor of a Smogtour-style DPP Classic, as Jabba mentioned (Bo3: OU, UU, Ubers). This format rewards well-rounded players who enjoy all three tiers, and admittedly the old head in me likes this idea. Also replacing UU with Draft or possibly even Mono if there's enough drive for it from the community.

DPP Ubers
DPP Smogtour Classic Bo3 (OU / UU / Ubers)
DPP OU
DPP OU
DPP OU Bo3
DPP Draft
DPP UU
DPP NU
DPP PU
DPP LC
Click to expand...
 
id like to advocate for dou or a vgc slot

DPP dou has been a fairly enjoyable tier i'd say for many although i don't feel strongly about its inclusion because it is currently in derby right now. It is fairly popular though in the doubles community and i think including it could help heal the bridge between doubles and oldgens communities

i've got stronger feelings for a vgc 2009 slot because it is another tier that is very interesting and has caught the player base's interest recently; in fact, we even just started writing analyses for it to help newer players that want to try the tier

i understand that the fact that supports will be pretty much absent could be an issue but i would like to hear other thoughts on these inclusions
 
As someone who slotted in to a few different tiers last year including Farceus I think there are some very clearly defined differences between standard ubers and Farceus that makes them appeal to different people and there people who play one and not the other. Player base is clearly a question but in the interest of giving as many niche tier players a premier event in the generation Farceus is both accessible and able to field 'tour players' where some supported OMs cannot as they really are a discipline of their own, something that has a tendency to be more of a strain on draft and building resources. I would be in favour of Farceus staying as a result.

I also think if any tier is looking to receive a second slot over UU then it is fairly easy to propose LC. It is still one of the most played LC old gens, the truly competitive player base is able to field enough people to fill the slots easily, and it is a tier that is both being actively tiered (there was a ban recently) and innovated in due to the surge in interest in the tier over the past two years. I think this is a hard sell if both UU2 and Farceus are retained in the formats, but it a very strong option if there are going to be format shakeups.
 
as somebody who's played farceus a couple times both in this tour and elsewhere over the years i can say with confidence that the meta sucks dick. Just a plain downgrade to DPP Ubers which is already a volatile tier by nature. Frankly I could shit on it for hours but I'll just leave it at the tier is fucking shit and we can easily give DPP DOU a time in the limelight instead.
 
I'd like to actually suggest expanding to 12 slots. I do think dpp's interest and playerbase has grown a reasonable amount to try a 12 slot tour. You would have to expand the auction budget but separate convo we can have if people are interested in 12 slots.

While I think UU and Ubers as tiers are good I don't particularly love giving them a second dedicated slot cuz lower tiers. Farceus you can at least argue plays differently enough from regular ubers I suppose.

The farceus question is also a matter of playerbase size which has been a legitimate issue, I remember this being a headache when I was helping plan for the draft. UU does not have this problem that said. Anyways that aside. The main thing i would like to bring up is having a second bo3 slot for dpp pl especially when this is a playerbase that wants bo3 regularly.

Lets say you keep every tier, you could expand to 12 slots and get something like this with the only casualty being 1 UU slot.

Ubers
Farceus
OU1
OU2
OU Bo3
OU Bo3 (the smogon tour format of ubers/ou/uu I would also accept as an alternative given it is a significant part of DPP's history)
UU
NU
PU
LC
DOU
VGC

Also I think if you were to include doubles, it should not just be one doubles slot and u probably want 2 because the doubles isolation thing is very much real.

If ppl hate farceus that much you can prob replace it with ZU or another OU tier or something idk. (Ig ru is an option too but idr that having much traction)

Anyways I wrote this on phone so apologies for any messy writing.

Edit: draft is alright but don't feel strongly but indifferent. I don't even recall there being a unified dpp board in all the offsite draft tours I've played in. Logistical headache to finish drafting since thats gonna delay the tour by a week if ppl hate that. Just thought I'd bring it up.
 
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