Dragon Zone

[ganj4lF]

Hello Smogon! This is my attempt at exploiting the simple, yet extremely effective sinergy between Dragonite and Magnezone, with the latter removing (almost) everything that prevents Nite to sweep. I worked on this team quite a bit, and now looks very good, but still has some flaws: that's why I'm posting here, I hope your reviews will help me improving the team and fixing a few holes.

I'm sorry if my Engish is not great, its not my first language so I apologize in advance for mistakes :p

Team Preview:

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In-depth Analysis:

(I will list in italic moves and/or aspects of my pokemons I'm not satisfied with, or where I'm not sure what to choose between 2 alternatives)

Defensive core:

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Leech Seed
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes / Protect
- Gyro Ball / Power Whip

I don't need to explain why the land mine is a great pokemon: ten resistances and awesome defensive stats allow it to wall almost everything that cannot hit for SE damage. Evs are standard, and perfectly fit the role of mixed wall. Also, it has very good sinergy with Gyarados: they both resist what hits super-effectively the mate (electric and rock for Gyara, and fighting and fire for Ferro).

Thunder Wave and Leech Seed allows it to outstall and/or cripple lots of switch-ins, whilethe last two moves are still pretty uncertain. The set I'm running at the moment uses Spikes and Gyro Ball, the first to better abuse the phazing capabilities of Gyarados, and the second to avoid being set-up bait for Latias, which is extremely annoying for my team. However, Protect is invaluable when stalling with Leech Seed and to scout unexpected HP Fire or similar SE moves; Power Whip is very useful too in hitting Water types (which I wall to no end anyway, that's why I didn't included Power Whip in the moveset).

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Tail / Roar
- Waterfall

I was looking for a sturdy physical wall not fire-weak and I ran into this set, that fits perfectly in a defensive core with Ferrothorn. It takes pitiful damage from fighting-types thanks to heavy investment in defense, typing and Intimidate, and resists fire attacks aimed at Ferro, which can easily switch into rock and electric attacks that gives trouble to this set. Also, it resists water attacks (and doesn't care about Scald burns), further helping Forrothorn in walling rain teams. Resttalk combination also allows it to sponge status moves, while Waterfall deals very decent damage, considering Gyarados' high base Attack, and the fourth moveslot is used to abuse entry hazards, especially when predicting switches on the other side.

I find this set very effective not only because it covers perfectly Ferro's weaknesses, but also because it's hard to guess it's so bulky: most Gyarados don't invest fully in HP and def (if at all) and, for example, are easily OKHO'd from STAB Stone Edges or Rock Slides (while I can take the hit and OHKO with Waterfall, or just phaze out, and Rest off the damage later).

I'm not sure here if it's better to run Roar of Dragon Tail. I'm using Dragon Tail right now, which helps weakeking threats for a DNite sweep, and does not get trolled by Espeon and Xatu. On the other hand, Roar helps immensely against Substitute users, but I would be a bit helpless agains Baton Pass teams with Espeon.

Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin

Well, this is not exactly a defensive set, as you have surely noticed watching EVs. However, even if offensive inclined, he still can take a lot of physical punishment and retaliate. This is my default lead, can set up Stealth Rock reliably, and support the team with Rapid Spin, which Dragonite and Gyarados love. Ice Shard is incredibly useful (in conjunction with Sturdy) to revenge kill dragons, break their substitute or to avoid being set up on.

Offensive core:

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon

This set is a lot different from the standard set with Substitute and Leftovers. A choice scarf allows Magnezone to be useful even when not facing steel types: it can help build momentum with Volt Switch, revenge kill (and its somewhat good defensive typing helps taking less damage from choice-locked or faster attacks), and clean up late game, outspeeding everything with base 111 speed or lower without a choice scarf. Of course, its main job is to kill Forretress, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Scizor, etc, but it's not useless even if the opponents has zero steel types. Again, like Gyarados' set, it also gain effectiveness because of the suprise factor (I sometimes end up leading with it, and this often causes misprediction on the opponent's side).

Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- ExtremeSpeed
- Earthquake

A beast. With Multiscale and Lum Berry, it can set up a dragon dance on almost everything, and proceed to destroy the opponent's team. I try to keep it at bay until lategame (when hopefully steel types have been murdered by Magnezone or Infernape), but it can be extremely useful even if it doesn't find a spot to set up.

Outrage is chosen over Dragon Claw because the difference in power is so noticeable, and you lose a lot of OHKOs (it may be good for bulkier version, which can take a hit if they fail to kill, but I didn't want a bulky version). ExtremeSpeed allows to revenge kill faster and/or damaged foes without locking into Outrage, and it's also useful to troll Sucker Punch users that try to revenge you. Earthquake is a good attack with high base power, and tends to hit for SE damage (or at least neutral) steel types still alive (like Jirachi, that Magnezone struggles to eliminate, or Heatran).

Infernape (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch

The last addition of the team, but one of the most satisfying ones. CB Infernape is a successful attempt to fix some of the team's holes: lack of pokemons that can build momentum on my side, and unability to kill Ferrothorn in the rain. However, it turned out that it goes far beyond this, filling the wallbreaker role perfectly. Also, it turned out to be an amazing lead against foes like Tyranitar and Deoxys-s (which is weakened from an U-turn and killed with ExtremeSpeed or Ice Shard, denying him the chance to set up 2 layers of hazards).

Flare Blitz hits extremely hard, and ruins the fun of sun teams: it's hard to find something that can switch into it under the sun and survive the hit. Also, I love to use it to roast Gengars that attempt to switch in on a fighting move. Close Combat kills Ferrothorn in rain, Heatran and hits hard any switch-in that does not resist it. U-turn is obvious here, as it allows me to grab momentum and to scout the enemy team. Mach Punch, in conjunction with Iron Fist, is a very handy tool to revenge kill a lot of threats: CB/Scarf Terrakion, Sharpedos, and a lot more (it was meant to check Excadrill when it wasn't banned, but I never regret using it even after the ban).



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That's it! I'm not providing a full threat list, however the main weaknesses I noticed are the following:

1. Ferrothorn in the rain. This is the situation where I pay the choice of item on Magnezone. Without being able to set-up a substitute, Ferrothorn easily outstall me, since HP fire deals about ~35% and protect prevents it every other turn. Sure, if Ferro get caught into a Close Combat or a +2 EQ from Nite it may have problems, but still I feel there's something not working perfectly here.
2. CM Latias with HP fire. If it find a way to set up calm minds, it can easily destroy my team except Gyarados. However, it can't take hits forever, and if one chooses Dragon Tail over Roar, it's pretty hard to force Latias out.

Thanks you all in advance for the attention and the rates!

PO Importable

Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Leech Seed
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball

Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- ExtremeSpeed
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake

Infernape (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Tail
- Waterfall

 

[asterat]

You need more special attackers IMO. You have two physical sweepers and all of you walls hit the physical side. Personally, I would put heatran ore ape or make ape mixed/special

 

[CBManBearPig]

On Ferrothorn, If you're running Thunder Wave, I'd run Spikes and Power Whip in your two uncertain slots, as Thunder Wave has terrible synergy with Gyro Ball and Ferrothorn needs an entry hazard to set up and you already have Stealth Rock on Donphan. Great team.

 

[ganj4lF]

You need more special attackers IMO. You have two physical sweepers and all of you walls hit the physical side. Personally, I would put heatran ore ape or make ape mixed/special

I don't feel it like a problem, most of the physical walls used in OU are steels, thus they get trappend and killed by Magnezone pretty easily. Exceptions are Donphan and Hippowdon, but they're not that used, they are all hit for super effective damage by Gyarados, and can be outstalled easily by Ferrothorn. Gliscor is walled by Ferrothorn and does not like taking Ice Shards from Donphan. Phisically Bulky Waters are also handled fine by both Ferrothorn and Gyarados...

On Ferrothorn, If you're running Thunder Wave, I'd run Spikes and Power Whip in your two uncertain slots, as Thunder Wave has terrible synergy with Gyro Ball and Ferrothorn needs an entry hazard to set up and you already have Stealth Rock on Donphan. Great team.

I agree that the moves do not synergize, but the problem I find in running Power Whip is that it fails to break 252/0 Latias' Substitute, so it easily can set up on me and proceed to kill anything on my team. I will test it, though.

 

[Nonary Game]

You need more special attackers IMO. You have two physical sweepers and all of you walls hit the physical side. Personally, I would put heatran ore ape or make ape mixed/special

I subscribe to a slightly different train of thought: Specializing in one offensive stat. You don't just arbitrarily add something saying "Hey, I need a special attacker just because." Most teams will run one physical wall, maybe two if it's more stall-ish. By potentially sacrificing a mon to cripple a wall to where it can't stop anything anymore, you can bring the rest of your physical hitters in to start breaking down teams. This is even advantaged by the fact that, for example, special walls are utterly useless against this team if it were to go that way.

That said, good team TC, although as for Ferrothorn, keep Gyro Ball. It doesn't seem like Quagsire or other bulky waters/grounds are a major issue to this team, and as you said, Latias is a problem, which Gyro Ball fixes.

 

[Tomahawk]

It seems like you would have a lot of trouble with Life Orb Latios, with a moveset of Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse / Surf or Psyshock / Hidden Power Fire / Life Orb or Calm Mind, as it OHKOes all your team members after a Calm Mind, or 2HKOes all of your team members with Recover (and Draco Meteor), while Magnezone can't exactly do a lot of damage, which is Recovered off.
Life Orb sweeper Deoxys-S can also sweep your team if Magnezone and Ferrothorn are a little weakened (Magnezone to ~70%, and Ferrothorn to ~50%) which is usually the case, and all your team members will fall to Psychic or Psycho Boost / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Superpower.
Calm Mind Virizion and Swords Dance Virizion might also sweep your team if you lose the speed tie with Infernape. Calm Mind Virizion KOs all of your team after a boost bar Dragonite with Multiscale up, which isn't always the case, and Gyarados who can only phaze him out after which he can just come back in again another time to sweep. Swords Dance Virizion works similarly.

To help fixing this, I recommend you try Scizor over Infernape, even though I love CBApe a lot, Scizor could work here to fix these problems. He can OHKO Deoxys-S with Bullet Punch and isn't KOed by any attack, so you can also U-Turn if you expect a switch or if Stealth Rock isn't up. Latios can be dealt with in a similar way, can switch in, and Bullet Punch for the KO if Latios is a little weakened. You can also Pursuit or U-Turn. Beware of HP Fire though! Finally, Scizor can take a hit from Virizion and 2HKO with Bullet Punch. The exact set you probably know already, but here it is:

Hide

Scizor @ Choice Band | Technician
Adamant | 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Bullet Punch / U-Turn / Pursuit / Superpower

Another option is using a specially defensive Jirachi over Ferrothorn. You get to keep Infernape (yay!), but it will come at the cost of your main Drizzle counter (though Jirachi does a good job at beating Drizzle as well). He can take any hit from Latios with his resistances and bulk, and paralyze and flinch him to death. The same works for Deoxys-S, and Virizion, seeing as both can't do major damage to Jirachi bar Swords Dance Close Combat Virizion (which still doesn't OHKO). The exact set is:

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Jirachi @ Leftovers | Serene Grace
Careful | 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
Wish / Thunder Wave / Iron Head / Protect

Good luck!

 

[ganj4lF]

Thanks a lot Tomahawk for the rate! I agree with you that listed pokemons are a big headache for the team. I already tried to run Scizor to replace CB Ape, but I would have 3 pokes weak to fire (2 of them doubly weak), which will hurt a lot against anything with HP fire, or against sun team. However, Sp. Defensive Jirachi sounds like a great idea, I'm going to try it out as soon as possible! Thanks again.

 

[-Tsunami-]

Hey there.

While being originally part of the offense on your team, I do not really feel like you need Magnezone. Infernape can destroy steel types, whereas Gyarados and Donphan can easily take on Scizor and Forretress, respectively. So instead of wasting a moveslot, I suggest that you run Fire Punch on Dragonite over Extremespeed; Infernape already has priority covered with Mach Punch regardless. Now Dragonite can easily destroy Ferrothorn, Forretress, and other steel types without having to rely on support from another teammate.

This change will allow you to replace Magnezone with a Latias. Latias can take on the dangerous Rotom-W + Scizor combination that can do severe damage to your team, and also deal with sun sweepers such as Venusaur. Latias can also take on threats such as CM Virizion and Nasty Plot Celebi; the former can easily set up on Donphan and proceed to sweep you with it's excellent coverage, while the latter can only be taken on by Dragonite. Since Dragonite is a sweeper with no form of recovery, it is not a reliable counter to Celebi since it can be worn down rather easily.

Calm Mind Latias

Hide

Latias @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Speed
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]

I would also definitely run Spikes over Protect on Ferrothorn, and Power Whip over Gyro Ball. Spikes support would greatly help Dragonite out; it also allows Infernape to put much more pressure on the opponenet with U-Turn. Gyro Ball's low PP makes it a bad choice for Ferrothorn's only attacking move; Power Whip has a decent amount of PP and allows Ferrothorn to destroy threats such as Quagsire, Gastrodon, and Politoed that could otherwise annoy it with Scald.

Overall, solid team. Hope I helped, and good luck!