Dragonite Returns

[waterise]

DRAGONITE RETURNS!
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The main purpose of this team is to just destroy and sweep with Dragonite with support from his teammates. Thank-you for viewing this, please rate!

Team at a glance:

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CHANGES IN RED!

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252Atk/252Spe/4HP

Dragon Dance

Outrage

Fire Punch

Extremespeed

I wanted to build a team around one of my favorite Pokemon, Dragonite. I've always loved him in 1st Gen. so I wanted to bring him back to my team 5 Gens later. Lum Berry allows me to recover from status effects, which are pretty common. Multiscale allows me to survive most attacks, then kill mostly everything with my Dragon- and Fire-type moves, espeically after a Dragon Dance. Outrage is here in place of Dragon Claw because the thought of being locked in against a Fairy-type doesn't really bother me, plus it's much more raw power. Extremespeed is mostly for opposing Pokemon who I think are running Sucker Punch or other priority moves. Pretty standard, but slightly different Dragonite. I changed by Banded Dragonite to have Lum Berry so I can give my Choice Band to Talonflame, who would benefit from it more, in my opinion.

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

Defog

Draco Meteor

Healing Wish

/

Psyshock/Thunderbolt

Draco Meteor is Latias's most powerful STAB attack, dealing a large amount of damage to Pokemon such as Rotom-W, Mega Pinsir, and Mega Charizard Y. Healing Wish allows Latias to completely heal a weakened teammate once its job of removing entry hazards is done. Healing Wish is one of the main reasons to use Latias over Latios as well. Surf could be used instead of Psyshock, but Psyshock allows Latias to hit Fairy-types & Mega Venusaur really hard. Not much else to say; this is a pretty standard Defog set for Latias. I'm currently undecided on whether to use Psyshock or Thunderbolt.

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 35 HP / 252 Atk / 5 Def / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature

Tailwind

Brave Bird

Flare Blitz

U-Turn

Tailwind allows Talonflame to gain more speed while also aiding my teammates. The standard Brave Bird is there for priority. The third move, Flare Blitz, is there for coverage that BB cannot hit well. Of course, then, I need some sort of recovery or shift, so U-Turn was the obvious option. U-Turn also acts as a pivot to gain back momentum during a battle. 216 Speed EV's to be a check to Quick Attack Mega Pinsir & outspeed other Talonflame running 208 EV's for QA Mega Pinsir. The leftover 36 EV's went into HP & 1 EV into Defense.

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Adamant Nature

Earthquake

Icicle Crash

Ice Shard (+1 Priority)

Superpower

I figured after having my beloved physical Dragonite and Special Attack Latios, that I need something else that could physically attack opposing Pokemon and have Ground-type coverage. Mamoswine's typing alone is really cool on its own, Ground- and Ice-type. Icicle Crash + Superpower is now legal, so of course I'll run those two moves on this Mamoswine. Icicle Crash lets me hit decently hard despite the 90% accuracy risk, and Superpower allows me to hit Steel-types that aren't weak to Ground. Lastly, Ice Shard for priority.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

Hydro Pump

/

Ice Beam/Extrasensory

Dark Pulse

U-turn

I now had two physical attackers, a special attacker, and a revenge killer/all-out suicidal attacker (Talonflame). I needed another special attacker for when Latios is taken down mid-late game after SR has been used. Ninjas are cool and why not have a speedy special attacker? Greninja was the choice. I used a special all-out attacking set. I do want Extrasensory on this set somewhere, but I have no idea what to replace. I cover Grass- and Dragon-types well, so I was thinking to replace Ice Beam for some coverage from Extrasensory. Dark Pulse is a great STAB move and takes care of Starmie with ease and dents Tentacruel. I chose U-Turn as the last slot as a momentum shifter. If I'm up against something and worst comes to worst, I U-Turn out.

-->

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SpD
Adamant Nature

Sword Dance

Knock Off

Roost

Bullet Punch

Scizor gained a Mega Evolution! Why, since he was strong enough as he was? I don't know, but I like it!
I figured with the boosts when Mega Evolved, I could turn Scizor into a more bulky Pokemon without sacrificing much attacking power. So I did. I went with a bulky Swords Dance set. Swords Dance is standard for attacking power. I replaced Bug Bite with Knock Off due to its buff this generation and neutral damage to bulky Ghost-types and Pokemon that resist Bullet Punch. Bullet Punch is standard. I'm not sure if I want to use Roost or Superpower; Roost is great for recovery to be able to attack longer, but Superpower covers steel-types and Dark-types.

Type Weaknesses/Resistances:
(not fully 100% accurate)

Possible replacements to the team:

Hide

Thundurus-I @ Expert Belt
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
Naive Nature

Thunderbolt

Hammer Arm

/

Knock Off/Hidden Power Ice

Taunt

Thundurus has a good 115 Attack, with which it can take down its common checks, like Blissey and Tyranitar. With mixed attacking stats, Thundurus can function as an excellent wallbreaker, weakening opposing teams for its teammates to sweep. Thunderbolt is Thundurus's main STAB move for its power and reliability. Hammer Arm allows Thundurus to OHKO non-Chople Berry Tyranitar and 2HKO Blissey, as well as severely dent Terrakion. Hidden Power Ice is the best coverage move available to Thundurus, complementing its other moves very well by hitting the Dragon-types that resist its other moves, but with Knock Off's boost this gen, it's also a great move to use. Taunt can be used to screw over walls attempting to paralyze or set up hazards on Thundurus, and also stops Dragon Dance boosters.

Espeon @ Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpAtk / 252 Spe

Reflect

Light Screen

/

Baton Pass / Hidden Power Fire

Psychic

Blessed with a great ability and speed, Espeon is an amazing user of Dual Screens and a great support to Dragonite. The idea of the set is to set up both Reflect and Light Screen to help teammates. With Magic Bounce, Espeon is a great Pokemon to switch into opposing Pokemon who are using status-effecting moves. I already have Latios with HP Fire, so Baton Pass is an option for me as well. I will generally use Reflect before Light Screen to help Espeon itself out first with its defenses.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Stone Edge
U-turn

Earthquake is a mandatory STAB that hits like a truck, even with minimal investment! Stone Edge is to get that neutral coverage with Earthquake. U-Turn keeps up momentum and can safely bring Landorus-Therian out of its threats. If I am to replace Mamoswine, this will be the replacement since I would really like a Steal Rock user on my team, even though I have a Defogger.

Former team members:

Hide

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

Draco Meteor

Psyshock

Hidden Power Fire

Defog

Draco Meteor is Latios's strongest and hence main STAB attack. Psyshock pairs well with Draco Meteor, getting STAB and good neutral coverage while doing physical damage, hurting special walls such as Blissey. I wound up replacing Earthquake for Hidden Power Fire. Latios doesn't really need Earthquake since it won't be doing much damage with it anyway. Hidden Power Fire can be used for Scizor and Genesect, both of which can threaten Latios with STAB Bug-type attacks. Defog was chosen since I do need a Defogger in this generation to clear hazards.

Showdown Replays:

Hide

Guess I should name him "FearNite," lol.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-87153297

3-0'd then forfeits :P
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-87156849

An actual full game:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-87157398

Countered him pretty bad
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-87158651

Kind of a blow-out
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-87216690

5-0'd
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-87807109

This kid was so confident in his Brightpowder
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-88206619

I do not have Intimidate support, so that may be a possible problem.
Thank-you for viewing my team. Please take the time to criticize and rate it.

 

[Vaypourion]

As far as Greninja goes, I would recommend at least considering Hasty or Naive to get the extra damage on U-Turn. It doesn't have much chance to take hits anyways.
I feel foregoing Extrasensory could possibly be more beneficial but I can't say for certain.

I'm not so sure about Latios either. Earthquake, while sill dealing decent damage, doesn't do enough with that set to reliably take care of the threats you listed.
I think Surf may be a viable option alongside HP Fire as well, so consider that.

If they interest you, you have some good support options with MegaScizor and even a Latias set as well.

 

[X5Dragon]

Man I didn't know when you asked me about how I would update my team you were gonna RMT it so fast, I was going to use this for myself for a while LOL. Anyway this can help you a bit:

Dragonite: The weakness policy set is legit, but if you are willing to experiment with immediate brute power (and make jokes out of those Quagsires and Gliscors) I'd slap a band on the big D, with ES, Fire Pwnch, EQ and Outrage.

Talonflame: Latios is good at what it does where defogging is concerned, so if you think you can forgo Roost, use a Leichi Berry (Natural Gift) SD set. If you don't manage to OHKO Rotoms, Quags and heavily dent TTars after an SD, the recoil will more than often push you to consume the berry and get an Atk boost. Salac is also an option as well as it hits it's usual counters at least neutrally.

Mamoswine: I prefer not use SR and Defog on the same team, and Latios being good at what it does, you can catch the opponent off guard late game with that sash, where instead of SR and Superpower you can use Icicle Spear and Knock Off to finish your opponents and break subs/knock off Evios and Assault vests.

Greninja: Not much to say, I use Ice Beam instead of U-Turn but Water/Dark plus lure move usually gets the job done.

GL.

 

[SickSevenOne]

The team is built well and each poke covers each other effectively. The only issue (small kind) I see is entry hazard "stress" (if that's a good way to put it). SR and Defog on the same team is questionable but I've seen its used effectively =] Well here's my recommendation. Hope it helps :]

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Dark Pulse
-Taunt

• Running Taunt>U-turn on Greninja can create opportunities for you to capitalize on those potential mid-late game entry hazard setters, and allows you to make him/her a lead if need be. Therefore reducing the "stress" on hazards and allowing your WeakNite to be effective mid-late game.
• Scald>Hydro Pump for better accuracy and that potential 30% burn on any opposing Pokemon always sounds nice.

 

[Robqq]

Talonflame doesn't need max speed because you'll mostly spam Brave Bird which has priority thanks to Gale Wings. I suggest you use the set below.

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/ U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Brave Bird

If you want to outspeed Mega-Pinsir's Quick Attack use 208 speed evs and pour the rest into HP. Nice team and good luck.

 

[jg1198]

The team is built well and each poke covers each other effectively. The only issue (small kind) I see is entry hazard "stress" (if that's a good way to put it). SR and Defog on the same team is questionable but I've seen its used effectively =] Well here's my recommendation. Hope it helps :]

I actually would advise against that, as with protean, Greninja is one of the smartest pokes to run hydro pump on in the game right now, since it needs all the power it can get, and if it needs a more reliable option, it has 3 other STAB attacks thanks to protean. The choice between extrasensory and u-turn is really up to you, but your team already isn't afraid of mega-Venu, so i would probably go with u-turn.

Also on mega scizor i think the usual set runs knock off over bug bite, as some of scizor's biggest counters are bulky ghosts, and knock off offers scizor great neutral coverage on things that it can't OHKO with bullet punch. But yeah definitely run roost for longevity, which is the reason to use mega scizor over regular scizor.

Also with skarm and ferro being not as ever present as they were last gen, but with priority everywhere, Dragonite should be running DD/dragon claw/earthquake/ES

I personally run icicle crash over stone edge on mamoswine, as icicle crash can OHKO a lot of defensive grass mons that are becoming popular this gen like trevenant.

Talonflame doesn't need max speed because you'll mostly spam Brave Bird which has priority thanks to Gale Wings. I suggest you use the set below.

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/ U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Brave Bird

If you want to outspeed Mega-Pinsir's Quick Attack use 208 speed evs and pour the rest into HP. Nice team and good luck.

Actually I would run an EV spread of 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd because then you still beat mega pinsir, and you also beat all the other talonflames running the common 208 speed spread. 40 HP EV's still lets you switch into rocks twice, and gives you a little bit of bulk at least. And beating mega pinsir is going to be really important once lucarionite and genesect are inevitably banned, as mega pinsir is probably the next best sweeping mega, and was a dominating force on the suspect ladder.

Everything else looks pretty good, so good luck on PS!

 

[Chronobreak]

I am also running weakness policy drago. I think that you need to keep hazards on the opponents side and keep them of yours, so you break any sashes, and you don't waste your multiscale. From there, you need e speed for Pokemon faster than you, which will surely KO at +3. So, get rid of scizor for another mega, maybe one that knows rapid spin. Also, I see latios doing the same job as dragonite, so I suggest running Dual screens espeon for additional defensive support, so he lives that first attack really well, and maybe live another, like I lived an Ampharos mega dragon pulse without multiscale intact and screens up.


That's my two cents

 

[waterise]

Man I didn't know when you asked me about this you were gonna RMT it so fast, I was going to use this for myself for a while LOL. Anyway this can help you a bit:

Dragonite: The weakness policy set is legit, but if you are willing to experiment with immediate brute power (and make jokes out of those Quagsires and Gliscors) I'd slap a band on the big D, with ES, Fire Pwnch, EQ and Outrage.

Talonflame: Latios is good at what it does where defogging is concerned, so if you think you can forgo Roost, use a Leichi Berry (Natural Gift) SD set. If you don't manage to OHKO Rotoms, Quags and heavily dent TTars after an SD, the recoil will more than often push you to consume the berry and get an Atk boost. Salac is also an option as well as it hits it's usual counters at least neutrally.

Mamoswine: I prefer not use SR and Defog on the same team, and Latios being good at what it does, you can catch the opponent off guard late game with that sash, where instead of SR and Superpower you can use Icicle Spear and Knock Off to finish your opponents and break subs/knock off Evios and Assault vests.

Greninja: Not much to say, I use Ice Beam instead of U-Turn but Water/Dark plus lure move usually gets the job done.

GL.

Ahaha, my bad, man. I am noticing how much I do need Earthquake on more than one Pokemon for singles, of course. EQ on Dragonite definitely would have helped me more in some battles. Do you think it's worth it to be Banded and possibly be locked into Outrage if a Fairy-type gets sent out?
Regarding Talonflame, I can definitely try Natural Gift. Does this set seem better than the Talonflame I have?:

Hide

Talonflame @ Leichi Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spd
Adamant Nature

Brave Bird

Flare Blitz

Swords Dance

Natural Gift

Or maybe 216 Speed EV's instead to outspeed other Talonflame running this and 40HP EV's?

Yeah, I'm seeing from multiple posts advising me to not use SR on Mamoswine, but should I use Icicle Spear or Icicle Crash?
Thank-you for your feedback, man!

Talonflame doesn't need max speed because you'll mostly spam Brave Bird which has priority thanks to Gale Wings. I suggest you use the set below.

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/ U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Brave Bird

If you want to outspeed Mega-Pinsir's Quick Attack use 208 speed evs and pour the rest into HP. Nice team and good luck.

Do you think the Natural Gift set above would be better than my current set & the one you are suggesting? Thanks for the feedback!

The choice between extrasensory and u-turn is really up to you, but your team already isn't afraid of mega-Venu, so i would probably go with u-turn.

Also on mega scizor i think the usual set runs knock off over bug bite, as some of scizor's biggest counters are bulky ghosts, and knock off offers scizor great neutral coverage on things that it can't OHKO with bullet punch. But yeah definitely run roost for longevity, which is the reason to use mega scizor over regular scizor.

Actually I would run an EV spread of 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd because then you still beat mega pinsir, and you also beat all the other talonflames running the common 208 speed spread. 40 HP EV's still lets you switch into rocks twice, and gives you a little bit of bulk at least. And beating mega pinsir is going to be really important once lucarionite and genesect are inevitably banned, as mega pinsir is probably the next best sweeping mega, and was a dominating force on the suspect ladder.

Everything else looks pretty good, so good luck on PS!

Yeah, I'm still undecided about U-Turn or Extrasensory. I figured I'd use Extrasens for Ghost-types and Fighting-types mainly.
I can definitely try Knock Off on Scizor in place of Bug Bite, but so far in battles, Bug Bite has helped with certain Pokemon. Then again, I haven't tried Knock Off yet, so I shall.
Thought on the Natural Gift Talonflame set above compared to the one you're suggesting? What do you think will benefit me most?
Thank-you for the feedback!

I am also running weakness policy drago. I think that you need to keep hazards on the opponents side and keep them of yours, so you break any sashes, and you don't waste your multiscale. From there, you need e speed for Pokemon faster than you, which will surely KO at +3. So, get rid of scizor for another mega, maybe one that knows rapid spin. Also, I see latios doing the same job as dragonite, so I suggest running Dual screens espeon for additional defensive support, so he lives that first attack really well, and maybe live another, like I lived an Ampharos mega dragon pulse without multiscale intact and screens up.


That's my two cents

That's what I'm using Latios for, getting rid of hazards - do you have a replacement Pokemon in place of Scizor if I were to get rid of him? Who would you replace for Espeon?
Thanks for the feedback!


Edit: OP edited and added Espeon as a possible replacement.

 

[Jirne]

Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252Atk/252Spe/4HP

Earthquake

Dragon Claw

Fire Punch

Extremespeed

If you band your dragonite, go for outrage, since you are locked in it (fairies can switch on your second claw), take the stronger move you can.

 

[jg1198]

I think roost is much more useful than natural gift, and remember you're not trying to 6-0 an entire team with talonflame, and i think the rest of your team deals with it's counters well, so I would run roost.

 

[waterise]

Through testing on Showdown, I noticed I do have a little bit of a problem with Fairy-types. A Klefki managed to take down my DNite & Latios and I don't really have much to counter it. Azumarill I can take care of, sort of, but Fairies in general are more problematic than other types.

 

[Chronobreak]

Sorry, you don't have to replace scizor, I thought it ran defog for some reason. I think Latios should be replaced, because it has magic bounce to reflect t hazards while keeping hazards you need

 

[jg1198]

If it was a swag play klefki, I wouldn't worry about it too much, but scizor should make short work of most fairy types and you also have mamoswine for back-up I guess since most fairies don't like strong physical attacks. I guess a change that might help would be running enough speed EV's on scizor to outrun defensive rotom-w, since most fairies appear on more defensive teams, and this would allow you to bring scizor out on a fairy, SD and MEvo on the switch, and then smack rotom-w with a +2 knock off/Bug bite, and let you dismantle their core a little bit, turning a problem with fairies into a set up opportunity.

 

[waterise]

If it was a swag play klefki, I wouldn't worry about it too much, but scizor should make short work of most fairy types and you also have mamoswine for back-up I guess since most fairies don't like strong physical attacks. I guess a change that might help would be running enough speed EV's on scizor to outrun defensive rotom-w, since most fairies appear on more defensive teams, and this would allow you to bring scizor out on a fairy, SD and MEvo on the switch, and then smack rotom-w with a +2 knock off/Bug bite, and let you dismantle their core a little bit, turning a problem with fairies into a set up opportunity.

Yeah, it was a Swagger Klefki and I kept hitting myself -_- Figures. Haven't actually encountered Rotom yet, which is strange. I only have Knock Off & Bullet Punch on Scizor for attacking moves, but Klefki's Steel-typing didn't help my Scizor hurt it much, haha.

Edit: Yeah, Bullet Punch on a Klefki only took 12% health.

 

[Jirne]

Maybe stealth rocks on mamo instead of icicle crash (hazard support is always nice)
And if you do so, use oblivious instead of thick fat (taunt immunity)

 

[waterise]

Bump. I'd appreciate more feedback from the work put into this. Thanks, everyone!

 

[Ajwf]

Alright, this team seems to have undergone some changes in roles since the OP's description. I'm not terribly efficient with heavy offense, but it looks like Dnite is now cleaning and Mega Scizor is sweeping. The issue here is Talonflame can ruin your team, if it runs max speed and wins a speed tie with your own. Of course, TF is a general issue for anything HO, but not having any flying resist to at least take a second brave bird on switch and forcing bands out/flare blitz as best option is a tad detrimental.

While it's coverage is drastically diffenet, LO Thundy-i is an option as a check to talonflame, running Thunderbolt/thunderwave/HiddenPowerIce/Filler (Super power to catch chansey?)


Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Superpower

4 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 338-398 (48 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

Sorry that I don't have much to help with, this is slightly out of my range of expertise.

 

[Nog]

Okee dokee waterise, got the PM to rate this so I shall. You have already had a ton of help with the team so there isn't much for me to help you fix. One thing I was noticing was that no one really touched on that Rotom-Wash seems like a nuisance to the team. Latios can swap in and take a Will-o-wisp, a hydro, and a volt switch with ease, but he has no recovery and has a LO for an item. To help remedy some of the ruckus that the washing machine is causing I suggest running Recover over Hidden Power Fire. HP Fire is great for steel swap ins sure, but at the cost of your premier Defogger? No thank you. Running Recover increases your longevity, keeps rocks off the field far longer than without it, and further aids a Talonflame or Dragonite sweep.

Next up we have your Mamoswine. Although some people may not like running Defog and Stealth Rocks on the same team, it can be very necessary at times for some crucial damage that puts the enemy in KO range. For this reason I suggest dropping Superpower for Stealth Rock. Stealth Rocks is especially useful on teams with great revenge killers. You have two huge revenge killers that would destroy a team under SR pressure. You can maintain pressure with the amount of threats you have so they can never get up their rocks further ensuring you win.

The last thing I had for you was about your Scizor. It's EV's do not match it's set in the slightest and its move set is a bit quirky. Your EV's suggest you are running the Utility/Defog set, which you are not. Try running a 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spd EV spread to out speed 4 Speed EV'd Heatran. Why is that important? Because I am also suggesting you change Knock Off to Superpower to KO Heatran after you out pace him. You do a ton on the switch if you went straight for the Superpower and you can out speed and OHKO the turn later if you went for Swords Dance predicting the switch.

That's really all I had for you man. Good luck with the team and if you need some more help just PM me.

Calcs

252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 306-360 (79.2 - 93.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 306-360 (79.2 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 204-240 (52.8 - 62.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


+2 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 608-716 (157.5 - 185.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[waterise]

The issue here is Talonflame can ruin your team, if it runs max speed and wins a speed tie with your own. Of course, TF is a general issue for anything HO, but not having any flying resist to at least take a second brave bird on switch and forcing bands out/flare blitz as best option is a tad detrimental.

While it's coverage is drastically diffenet, LO Thundy-i is an option as a check to talonflame, running Thunderbolt/thunderwave/HiddenPowerIce/Filler (Super power to catch chansey?)


Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Superpower

4 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 338-398 (48 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

Thank-you for your feedback. I've run into a few Talonflame and they haven't really done any huge amounts of damage to me since it's frail & I can usually take it out easily, but I will consider the Thundurus.

To help remedy some of the ruckus that the washing machine is causing I suggest running Recover over Hidden Power Fire. HP Fire is great for steel swap ins sure, but at the cost of your premier Defogger? No thank you. Running Recover increases your longevity, keeps rocks off the field far longer than without it, and further aids a Talonflame or Dragonite sweep.

Next up we have your Mamoswine. Although some people may not like running Defog and Stealth Rocks on the same team, it can be very necessary at times for some crucial damage that puts the enemy in KO range. For this reason I suggest dropping Superpower for Stealth Rock. Stealth Rocks is especially useful on teams with great revenge killers. You have two huge revenge killers that would destroy a team under SR pressure. You can maintain pressure with the amount of threats you have so they can never get up their rocks further ensuring you win.

The last thing I had for you was about your Scizor. It's EV's do not match it's set in the slightest and its move set is a bit quirky. Your EV's suggest you are running the Utility/Defog set, which you are not. Try running a 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spd EV spread to out speed 4 Speed EV'd Heatran. Why is that important? Because I am also suggesting you change Knock Off to Superpower to KO Heatran after you out pace him. You do a ton on the switch if you went straight for the Superpower and you can out speed and OHKO the turn later if you went for Swords Dance predicting the switch.

That's really all I had for you man. Good luck with the team and if you need some more help just PM me.

Calcs

252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 306-360 (79.2 - 93.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 306-360 (79.2 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 204-240 (52.8 - 62.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


+2 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 608-716 (157.5 - 185.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Thanks for your time & feedback! I actually haven't run into Rotom yet, which is surprising. See, I'm really not sure what to do with Latios & Mamoswine regarding Recover & Stealth Rock because HP Fire & Superpower have helped me win matches that I would of lost without the moves. I am more lenient on the SR > Superpower, though, but I'm not 100% sure yet. I'll test it out.
Scizor is to be bulky offensive, so that's why the EVs are in HP & SpDef mostly. I will test out Superpower > Knock Off, but then I don't have much to counter Ghost-types if Greninja & Latios are taken down already.

 

[Yuttt]

I haven't been on for a while, so I am not sure how the meta is rn. However, I suspect Rotom-w and Quagsire are as popular as ever, and your team seems weak to both. I would suggest you add Freeze Dry on your Mamoswine, replace Focus Sash with Life Orb, and change to a Naughty or Naive nature. This also reduces the need for Extrasensory on Greninja, as it lures in bulky waters, and your team adequately deals with Keldeo and Mvenus already.

GL~

 

[waterise]

I've been looking around & I've seen multiple instances where people are saying Landorus-T outclasses Mamoswine. Thoughts?

 

[alexwolf]

As already mentioned, you have a big weakness to Talonflame and lack Stealth Rock. For this reason, i suggest you replace Mamoswine with Rocky Helmet Stealth Rock Garchomp, which can passively harash Talonflame nicely, and allow you to revenge kill it with Dragonite's ES even if it dies.

Then, i would replace Latios with Latias, which has Healing Wish, meaning that even against teams with Pursuit users such as Tyranitar and Aegislash, it can be very useful. Giving a second chance to Pokemon such as Talonflame or Dragonite can be very critical in late-game, and would benefit your team a lot.

Also, give to Talonflame Salac Berry and Natural Gift instead of Sharp Beak and Roost, which will allow it to lure and KO Tyranitar and Heatran after an SD, making it much easier for Mega Scizor to sweep (Heatran), or for Latias to do some damage (Tyranitar).

Here are the sets:

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Swords Dance

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Defog
- Healing Wish

Thunderbolt is there to prevent Azumarill from setting up, which can be a bit problemtic to your team.

Good luck!

 

[CassiusYT]

Your team has a slight Rotom-W weakness. It can spread WoW around which cripples Dragonite, Scizor, and Mamoswine severely, and Volt Switch on your only good switch in, which is Latios. To slightly fix this I would suggest changing Mamoswine to Freeze Dry Life Orb Mamoswine, as a few others have suggested. Due to the fact that your Mamoswine doesn't have Stealth Rock, I don't see a huge point to Sash. Freeze Dry hits Rotom-W for ~50% of it's health, and can do huge damage to other water-ground pokes that might normally wall Mamoswine, such as Gastrodon, Quagsire, and Swampert as an added Bonus. Some other minor changes I would suggest are, as many others have suggested, is running a more bulky Talonflame spread as opposed to max speed and attack. As well, with the Hydro Pump nerf, Surf actually technically hits harder. Assuming you use Hydro Pump 5 times with a base power of 110, and it hits 4/5 times like it should due to it's 80% accuracy , you would do 440 damage. Assuming you use Surf 5 times with a base 90 power, and it hits all 5 times like it should due to it's 100% accuracy, you do 450 damage. This means Surf technically outdamages Hydro Pump this gen, and has more PP. I'm not sure if there are KOs you lose out on by using Surf over Hydro Pump, but just a change you might want to consider. Other than that, really solid team and nice to see some CB Dragonite usage :]

Mamo set:

Hide

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 244 Atk / 12 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Ice Shard
- Freeze-Dry
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

 

[waterise]

As already mentioned, you have a big weakness to Talonflame and lack Stealth Rock. For this reason, i suggest you replace Mamoswine with Rocky Helmet Stealth Rock Garchomp, which can passively harash Talonflame nicely, and allow you to revenge kill it with Dragonite's ES even if it dies.

Then, i would replace Latios with Latias, which has Healing Wish, meaning that even against teams with Pursuit users such as Tyranitar and Aegislash, it can be very useful. Giving a second chance to Pokemon such as Talonflame or Dragonite can be very critical in late-game, and would benefit your team a lot.

Also, give to Talonflame Salac Berry and Natural Gift instead of Sharp Beak and Roost, which will allow it to lure and KO Tyranitar and Heatran, making it much easier for Mega Scizor to sweep (Heatran), or for Latias to do some damage (Tyranitar).

Will post the sets in a while...

If I replace Mamo for Garchomp, though, then I'll have even more weakness to Dragon-, Ice, & Fair-types. Is it worth it? I was thinking if I replace Mamo with anything it'd be Landorus-T, but I'm not sure.
I can definitely try out Latias > Latios. The crazy thing so far is I haven't encountered any T-tar or Rotom...and I've only encountered 2 Aegislash, which I can take down pretty well.

This a good Latias set?

Hide

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
Defog
Draco Meteor
Healing Wish
Psyshock

Draco Meteor is Latias's most powerful STAB attack, dealing a large amount of damage to Pokemon such as Rotom-W, Mega Pinsir, and Mega Charizard Y. Healing Wish allows Latias to completely heal a weakened teammate once its job of removing entry hazards is done. Healing Wish is one of the main reasons to use Latias over Latios as well. Surf could be used instead of Psyshock, but Psyshock allows Latias to hit Fairy-types & Mega Venusaur really hard. Not much else to say; this is a pretty standard Defog set for Latias.

Your team has a slight Rotom-W weakness. It can spread WoW around which cripples Dragonite, Scizor, and Mamoswine severely, and Volt Switch on your only good switch in, which is Latios. To slightly fix this I would suggest changing Mamoswine to Freeze Dry Life Orb Mamoswine, as a few others have suggested. Due to the fact that your Mamoswine doesn't have Stealth Rock, I don't see a huge point to Sash. Freeze Dry hits Rotom-W for ~50% of it's health, and can do huge damage to other water-ground pokes that might normally wall Mamoswine, such as Gastrodon, Quagsire, and Swampert as an added Bonus. Some other minor changes I would suggest are, as many others have suggested, is running a more bulky Talonflame spread as opposed to max speed and attack. As well, with the Hydro Pump nerf, Surf actually technically hits harder. Assuming you use Hydro Pump 5 times with a base power of 110, and it hits 4/5 times like it should due to it's 80% accuracy , you would do 440 damage. Assuming you use Surf 5 times with a base 90 power, and it hits all 5 times like it should due to it's 100% accuracy, you do 450 damage. This means Surf technically outdamages Hydro Pump this gen, and has more PP. I'm not sure if there are KOs you lose out on by using Surf over Hydro Pump, but just a change you might want to consider. Other than that, really solid team and nice to see some CB Dragonite usage :]

Mamo set:

Hide

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 244 Atk / 12 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Ice Shard
- Freeze-Dry
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

It seems there's a lot of difference going on regarding Mamoswine. Half of everyone is saying Thick Fat, but the other half is saying either different sets or to just replace him. Would you agree with alexwolf's suggestions above your post? For replacing Mamo & Latios? I'm just trying to really narrow down what I should do. A lot of diversity. I will try the more bulky Talonflame & Surf Greninja. Thank-you for your feedback!

 

[CassiusYT]

It seems there's a lot of difference going on regarding Mamoswine. Half of everyone is saying Thick Fat, but the other half is saying either different sets or to just replace him. Would you agree with alexwolf's suggestions above your post? For replacing Mamo & Latios? I'm just trying to really narrow down what I should do. A lot of diversity. I will try the more bulky Talonflame & Surf Greninja. Thank-you for your feedback!

Replacing Mamoswine with Rocky Helmet Garchomp is a good idea, in order to help with your slight Talonflame weakness. I just provided Freeze Dry Mamo as an option if you didn't want to change any members of your team. As well, Latias over Latios is a good idea IMHO. The added bulk allows Latias to get off more Defogs than Latios, as it can stay alive longer, and access to Healing Wish definitely help in allowing for some of your sweepers to clean up late game.