Dragonite (Tank) [QC 1/3]

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http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/dragonite

I was told to post this here to decide if its a Fire Blast slash on the parashuffler, a new set, or a rejected set.

[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Roost
move 3: Dragon Tail
move 4: Fire Blast
item: Leftovers
ability: Multiscale
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 SpD


[Set Comments]


-Geared towards abusing Multiscale bulk on stall teams.

-Very similar to the parashuffler set, however, this set has the ability to prevent normal threats like Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress from just coming in and setting up.

-Most of the time using this set your goal will be to get a Sub. Against all of the aforementioned steel types you have an ideal chance, as well as against bulky waters that don't run Ice Beam.

-Once you start shuffling, you can either increase the effectiveness of your Toxic Spikes, or thanks to Multiscale have a near invincible wall with paralysis support.

-Even if you can't keep Stealth Rock off your side, you still have a very solid special wall. For example, a +2 Modest Life Orb Venusaur has almost no chance of OHKOing you after a Stealth Rock switch in and leftovers recovery.

-Fire Blast and special attack EVs are there to ensure Skarmory will not be coming in on you no matter how much special bulk it decides to have.



[Additional Comments]


-You will want either Toxic Spikes or paralysis support. Tentacruel and Forretress are great options for Toxic Spikes. Slowbro, Celebi, and Jirachi are ideal for spreading paralysis.

-Spinning is another vital support tactic for obvious reasons. Tentacruel and Forretress can multitask here. Excadrill is a solid choice as well because its excellent attack lets it bust through the most common spin blocker, Jellicent.

-The last important form of support is teammates who can cover Dragonite's weaknesses to the incredibly powerful Dragon, Ice, and Rock attacks you will see. Mamoswine is the largest and most common threat that will ruin your day, making Slowbro an excellent teammate. Skarmory also does a solid job of defending against those attacks.

-A cleric can be convienient for the process of spreading paralysis before bringing Dragonite in, for example, you can gain the freedom to Body Slam a Rotom-w with your Jirachi, Roserade and Celebi are premium choices here.

-Flamethrower has more PP and 100% accuracy, but gets trolled by the rare max special defense Skarm. You can also use a Sassy nature for more oomph on Dragon Tail.
 
Seems more like an other option thing using fire blast, and uh this set is bad against sandstorm and rain teams which are the most common, just some thoughts.
 
I personally prefer this set over the standard parashuffler set, but there just seems too little difference between the two to warrant separate sets at the moment.

I would consider Sassy over Calm. STAB Dragon Tail coming from Dragonite actually packs a punch, so hindering the damage output of its main weapon doesn't seem right to me. Sassy puts you in the same speed range as Skarmory and Taunt Jellicent; I dunno if that would be a huge issue or not.
 
I was told to post the set here so QC could decide what to do with it.

I agree that Dragon Tail feels like it would be better without that nerf, but hitting 196 speed unboosted is more valuable IMO. At one point I relied on it to have no chance of being outrun by Jelli, and outrunning most bulky Toed in that range is useful too. There may be more that I haven't thought of yet.
 
Well, as long as either nature works, and you've got buffers for certain attacks and foes (we're talking >44 Spe Jellicent), I think it's safe to say that there's two viable spreads, and we can get past that easily. I would also advise against the use of Fire Blast on such a defensively-minded set, and replace it with Flamethrower instead.

In other news, this seems interesting. I'll admit, it looks hard to touch at first glance, but I'll see what it can do when I test it out a bit.
 
Fire Blast and the spA evs are there so just in case you see a max/max Careful Skarm, you can 2HKO it. However, after all the PP wars my teams with this set go through the added PP could be very useful. Ill leave the choice of Fire attack and nature up to QC.

Edit- I've concluded that Fire Blast should in fact be the primary option. Even with the special attack investment, you dont gurantee a 2HKO on Impish Skarmory and have no hope of doing so to a max HP NP Celebi. Another depressing loss is an OHKO on bulky Scizor.
 
Thunder/Hurricane is way better than DTail/Fire Blast if used in rain. I also think that you must write that a spinner is needed in the Set Comments part since thats VITAL, as you said.
 
maybe you could make the nature calm/sassy, instead of just one so people can choose if they want more damage racking up or more speed?
 
You could run this Dragonite set in rain with having Thunder/Hurricane like Mynism mentioned. It will be a great special wall but in a different weather. Fire Blast is an awesome option in Sun tho.
 
The point of this Dragonite is to phaze out threats for all eternity, not attack. If you really wanted a weather-abusing Dragonite instead of a stall-oriented one, just use the Rain sets as one of you mentioned.
 
As of right now, I believe Calm is almost always the better choice, so im leaving it as the main option with a mention of Sassy in OO.

Also, Hurricane/Thunder is in the main analysis already. I don't know much about sun stall or if its worth using a special wall Dragonite on them, because to be honest it seems like Heatran is easily the best choice for sun if you want a special wall.
 
I personally can't see why we can't just slash Fire Blast with Thunder Wave onto the Parashuffler set, mention the EV spread in AC and just rename the set "Shuffling Tank" or something like that. They serve very similar purposes.

Personally, I've always envisioned a "Tank" Dragonite set to be something like:

Dragonite @ Life Orb / Leftovers / Draco Plate
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Thunder Wave
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast / Surf
- Roost

A bit like Tinkerbell, but this should probably go into another thread if we ever decide it's worth it o_0.
 
That kind of set could work. On another note, I know its easy to overlook but I've already said I was told to post the set so QC could decide what they wanted to do. Im going to add it to the OP to avoid any more confusion on that.
 
I actually used an Hurricane/thunder/sub/roost 252/252 SDef set as a staller in rain and not as a SAttacked like you said. It also brings something to the offensive. Anyway, what can your set Phaze that this one can't beat 1v1 ?
 
Bump. There's been no change in the analysis or official statement regarding Fire attack>Thunder Wave and this thread has been dead for a while.
 
Current set

Careful @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- Dragon Tail

This set

Calm @ Leftovers
252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Dragon Tail

given that they're so similar on paper I'd expect you to give a compelling argument as to how it plays differently. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that that's actually the case. I'd prefer it as a slash on the current set, but that's just me.

but with no offense intended to anyone, I'm shocked that we're talking about a tank-based Dragonite and this set still doesn't have an analysis!



M_Dragon said:
Old Times Dragonite @ Leftovers
  • Multiscale
  • 252 HP | 108 SpAtk | 148 SpDef
  • Calm Nature [+Special Defense, -Attack]
  • Moveset:
    • Hurricane - Its main attack. 120 BP STAB attack that may confuse, and that never misses. Should I say more? This will destroy some big threats like Celebi, Virizion (I can take a +1 HP Ice and a +2 Stone Edge even with no Multiscale) or Conkeldurr.
    • Thunder - There is only one reason for this: Jellicent. Thunder also has a good chance of paralyzing the opponent, something very useful vs most sweepers, and it also lets it beat any non IB stall breaker Mew. Using Aqua Tail over Thunder is an options (yes, even with –Atk nature), as it would KO the mole, and it would also do a nice 40% to most Tyranitar, but unluckily that would make me too Jellicent weak.
    • Roost- 50% recovery move, excellent to increase survivability.
    • Dragon Tail – The reason why this team easily destroys Baton Pass strategies (especially things like CM BP Espeon), and a really good answer vs CM Reuniclus (with Multiscale, a +1 Psychic will do less than 20%, and with +6, it will miss the 2HKO with Leftovers (56% max, I Roost, and with Leftovers I have 100% again), so I can just spam Roost, PP stalling its Psychics, and phazing it away when it decides to use Calm Mind again.
    .....
  • Why this Pokémon?:
    M Dragonite!!! The star of the team, and one of the best Pokémon I have ever used. This thing can take nearly any hit at 100% thanks to its ability, and it can completely destroy lots of Pokemon that give rain stall a lot of trouble, such as Celebi or Virizion. It just takes hits really well and hits like a truck with Hurricane, and it also phazes and/or beats 95% of the special sweepers that Chansey cannot beat (so with hazards, some possible counters like Blissey or WishJirachi are much easier to beat.
    .....
  • EVs & Nature:
    • 252 EVs HP EVs allow me to take physical and special hits better
    • 148 Sp Def EVs and a Calm nature let me outstall a +6 Reuniclus using Psychic, and it gives me a lot of special bulk, so I can even take Choice Specs Draco Meteors from Latios (with Multiscale), and a CM Latias's +2 Dragon Pulse will miss the 2HKO (with Multiscale too).
    • The rest goes into Sp Atk, because I want to hit a bit hard with my Hurricane.

somebody make it happen
 
I personally can't see why we can't just slash Fire Blast with Thunder Wave onto the Parashuffler set, mention the EV spread in AC and just rename the set "Shuffling Tank" or something like that. They serve very similar purposes.

Yeah I think that this is a good idea.

I also wouldn't mind Fire Blast having the main slash, as I never really found Thunder Wave to be all that useful.
 
Current set

Careful @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- Dragon Tail

This set

Calm @ Leftovers
252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Dragon Tail

given that they're so similar on paper I'd expect you to give a compelling argument as to how it plays differently. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that that's actually the case. I'd prefer it as a slash on the current set, but that's just me.

but with no offense intended to anyone, I'm shocked that we're talking about a tank-based Dragonite and this set still doesn't have an analysis!




somebody make it happen

I agree with everyone on slashing Fire Blast in with Thunder Wave instead of adding the new set, again I was told to post this to see if we wanted this to be a new set or a slash. M Dragonite already has it's whole moveset mentioned in the analysis, just needs an EV change to be a match. The EV spread from IR. accomplishes what that set was meant to do when it was first added so that could just be a controversial change in the analysis.
 
Another bump. I think we all agree that Fire Blast/Flamethrower should just be mentioned in the Parashuffler without making this a new set, so if that happened this thread could be locked.
 
Yeah, just mention Fire Blast in the set that's already on-site since this isn't very different at all. You're welcome to write up a sentence or two for it if you want, yee, seeing as you came up with the idea and all. Just PM me on the forums or IRC when it's done, assuming you want to do it. If you're not interested, I'll find someone else.

Moving.
 
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