There is no need for 248 hp evs, as 'Clops will be Painsplitting hp back. It isn't like the damage is permanent. I really don't think the 29 speed IVs are worth the trouble; you won't be hitting Conklederp with anything, just Painsplitting/statusing. Same with the 0 atk IV thing.
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Dusclops (Analysis)
- Thread starter Husky
- Start date
There is no need for 248 hp evs, as 'Clops will be Painsplitting hp back. It isn't like the damage is permanent. I really don't think the 29 speed IVs are worth the trouble; you won't be hitting Conklederp with anything, just Painsplitting/statusing. Same with the 0 atk IV thing.
1. What if your Dusclops has exactly 71 HP and gets phazed out (or something)? Once you switch back in, you'll regret not using a 248 HP EV spread. Once again, it's really situational. But it's better to be prepared than not. Besides, who would rather have ONE extra HP instead of a better Spike-number? It's not like you'll tank hits better with one extra HP. There are more benefits with 248 EV than the other way around.
2. So you would rather have a really, really slow Dusclops for no particular reason (which doesn't even have a negative-nature and doesn't gain anything from being slow)? Your argument basically is "let's give it 0 Speed IVs because it's easier, fuck the competitively better idea".
3. Imagine this: your Dusclops has 0 Speed IVs and 176 Atk stat while your opponent's Dusclops has 29 Speed IVs and 130 Atk. He uses Confuse Ray before you and you get hit "harder" by the confusion than him. He basically IS gonna win the 1v1. The point is to have the best set possible. The analysis should feature the opponent's (better) Dusclops, not the other way around.
I am not attacking you. I'm just trying to polish the sets and make them as good as possible.
Reply to 1: What if I get hit by an attack KOs me with 248 and leaves me on 1hp if I'm on 252? It is very situational.
Reply to 2: Actually, I'm suggesting you use 31 IVs. You outrun negative speed, 0 IV Forretress by one point.
Reply to 3: I'd be faster anyway (see 2nd reply) but regardless, I'm not going to stay in when I'm confused anyway. I don't think Dusclops vs Dusclops one-on-one will ever happen. If so, you're not going to get haxed to death (while possible, I doubt it is likely) and you'll just end up in a hax/ppstall/pain split/resttalk war anyway.
But I agree, it couldn't hurt, but I just wouldn't bother.
...and what if you get phazed out with 70HP remaining? Seriously, it's really nitpicky to say 248 HP EVs are better than 252 HP EVs...
Tell me one Pokemon Dusclops can outspeed once I change the IVs to 29. If there is something important, I'll do it. Else Spe IVs will stay 0.
Point is, there is no reason for a defensive Pokemon such as to run any Speed anyways. Complaining that confusion is bigger when keeping Careful nature over Calm is the top of nitpickyness (idm if that's actually a 'correct' english word right now). Imagine this: opp's Dusclops wastes a turn with Confuse Ray, mine breaks through and hits with Night Shade, you're automaticly in the worse position now because no Lefties and when you try to keep yourself up with Pain Split you can't do anything else anymore as I go last and bite the next 100 HP off the same turn. win-win situation for me. Expecting there will be many Dusclops-Dusclops match ups in near or far future is rather unlikely either way..
meh~ there are better comments.. No offense-
1. Guess there is no convincing you. Moving on.
2. frogoholic101 just prove that both 29 and 0 aren't the best IVs: 31 outspeeds Forretress by one point. You can forget about the 29 IVs then.
...29 IVs lets you outspeed Impish Ferrothorn (Thunder Wave instead of Gyro Ball), not that it matters that much.
3. What if the opponent used Night Shade before you instead? The fastest Dusclops wins, won't it? By the way, why suggest Confuse Ray as an option? You just proved it was extremely unreliable and can cause you to lose the Dusclops.
For the top of nitpickyness, I admit it really is a lot of trouble for a little reward, but it is not the point. Why keep the Attack stat? What are the benefits of Careful over Calm? Think of it that way.
No offense taken and still not attacking anyone, but explain your reasoning.
It might be a good idea to try confusing Conkeldurr before switching out, and then switching to a counter like Reuniclus. Otherwise, what else can Dusclops do to Conkeldurr? I mean, the Speed issue is totally fine, it's just that...it seems to be a bit nitpicky. In any case, mention 29 Speed IV's and the benefits of 0. Please keep in mind that Conkeldurr commonly runs a 0 Speed IV.
Also. Dusclops has disable should Conkeldurr use Payback on it.
Also. Dusclops has disable should Conkeldurr use Payback on it.
Confusion does not activate Guts luckily. Speaking of Reuniclus, amazing teammate especially when running Trick Room.
Sorry, didn't see it. I also find Metagross and offensive Bronzong are great ways to get rid of opposing Reuniclus.
- On the first set, remove Confuse Ray, Disable and Toxic. Replace them with Ice Beam and Taunt; the former allows you to take on Gliscor, Garchomp, Dragonite, and Salamence, while the latter prevents Nattorei and Forretress from setting up on you (and also prevents Roobushin from using Bulk Up / Reuniclus from using Calm Mind).
- On the TR set, slash Pain Split next to Momento in case setting up Trick Room multiple times is the objective. Also slash Night Shade before Taunt (what does it even do for you?).
- Remove the torment set and just mention the move Torment in the AC of the first set. Dusclops is just too vulnerable to status for it to work, and loses health every turn to do Sandstorm (usually) and no leftovers.
QC Approved (1/3)
the best thing Dusclops can do is set up trick room. Otherwise, it's setup fodder most of the time, even with taunt. memento is a hilariously counterintuitive move on something as bulky as dusclops, akin to using explosion Weezing.
All of the sets should be ignored, bar the TR set, IMO. Dusclops can definitely sit there and take hits but being set up on while it does so is not its main wish. its idiotically slow taunt does not help anything. Also, drop the attack to 0 if you're going for calm in the first place; dusclops won't be struggling anytime soon if you have night shade.
[SET]
name: Trick Room
move 1: Pain Split
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Night Shade
move 4: Trick Room
nature: Sassy
item: Eviolite
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe / 0 Atk
On a side note, for the sake of concept, you could mention that Dusclops' bulk with eviolite is akin to that of something with 110/130/130 defences, assuming max HP investment.
All of the sets should be ignored, bar the TR set, IMO. Dusclops can definitely sit there and take hits but being set up on while it does so is not its main wish. its idiotically slow taunt does not help anything. Also, drop the attack to 0 if you're going for calm in the first place; dusclops won't be struggling anytime soon if you have night shade.
[SET]
name: Trick Room
move 1: Pain Split
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Night Shade
move 4: Trick Room
nature: Sassy
item: Eviolite
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe / 0 Atk
On a side note, for the sake of concept, you could mention that Dusclops' bulk with eviolite is akin to that of something with 110/130/130 defences, assuming max HP investment.
I dont understand why the main spread is 252/80/176 instead of 252/176/80 with a nature in favor of defense. I found it much more useful to be able to burn stuff like Terrakion, Garchomp, Excadrill etc. in a pinch than survive two Draco Meteors from Latios. The list goes on of common cases where you would rather have it comfortable against physical attackers, another two that immediately come to mind are Scizor and Conkeldurr. It seems like special attackers will commonly have status moves, draining moves, trick etc. available to them to cripple Dusclops heavily. I would really like to know what big special threats you want Dusclops switching in on.
Edit- @Breludicolo Its 284/474/561 (factoring in Eviolite) with the current spread and 284/561/474 with the one im recommending.
Edit- @Breludicolo Its 284/474/561 (factoring in Eviolite) with the current spread and 284/561/474 with the one im recommending.
You need to add a Calm Mind set something like this:
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Pain Split
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Ice Beam
nature: Bold
item: Eviolite
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SpD
I have used this and when ever i bring it in everyone thinks it's the Defensive set like every other Dusclops but it's not.
I would like the QC team to look at it to see if it's viable, i know i like it and hope it gets a good reaction.
Edit- i have also swept a few teams with this set. And i know it's in other options but i want to see what QC thinks.
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Pain Split
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Ice Beam
nature: Bold
item: Eviolite
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SpD
I have used this and when ever i bring it in everyone thinks it's the Defensive set like every other Dusclops but it's not.
I would like the QC team to look at it to see if it's viable, i know i like it and hope it gets a good reaction.
Edit- i have also swept a few teams with this set. And i know it's in other options but i want to see what QC thinks.
The given spread even survives +4 EQ from Garchomp without LO (very small 7% chance to OHKO..) There's not much that has more power. Keeping in mind Dusclops can effectively cripple physical attackers with Will-O-Wisp and recover health back with Pain Split, I don't see any reason to swap the defenses unless you can tell me something common it can survive afterwards.
I edited the first post a bit now, mostly what Delta said.
> Defensive set has now IB and Taunt on the last slot. Dmg Calcs said though, that Dragonite won't take all too much from Ice Beam when it's at full health or is going to Roost .. or even both of them. And I'm talking about 4/0 EVs~ Other moves in AC
> TR set is edited quite a bit, with Pain Split and Night Shade becoming main slash
> Torment set removed, mentioned it solely in Defesive set AC
Remove the TR set, its terrible. It isn't threatning after TR goes up so you're forced to switch into one of your TR sweepers to get good use out of your limited 5 turns. Other TR users like Bronzong can explode to safely bring in a Trick Room sweeper, and Reuniclus is threatening on its own. While I personally like the 2nd sets name, you should just change it to "Restalk" because its more professional.
Other than that everything looks good. (Why does the Restalk set use 0 atk IVs)
QC APPROVED (2/3)
edit: Don't bother listing 0 atk IVs. Foul Play is so irrelevant, Dusclops shouldn't even bother dropping its atk IVs, its just a big waste of time.
Other than that everything looks good. (Why does the Restalk set use 0 atk IVs)
QC APPROVED (2/3)
edit: Don't bother listing 0 atk IVs. Foul Play is so irrelevant, Dusclops shouldn't even bother dropping its atk IVs, its just a big waste of time.
Also if running Taunt Dusclops should have 31 Speed IVs.
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