Eliminating Shoddy's Top 20

[Raj]

After a tiring from my usual teams consisting of various Smeargle leads, I decided to build a team that takes care of the biggest threats in Shoddy's OU ladder. It's essentially a trap team that has been working wonders... and getting people really pissed off.

The team: Mesprit, Magnezone, Dugtrio, Porygon2, Heatran

Mesprit @ Leftovers
Levitate
Bold
236 HP/ 252 Defense/ 20 Sp Att
~Stealth Rock
~Ice Beam
~Thunderbolt
~Grass Knot

Nowadays, just about every team's lead is a Stealth Rocker. Stealth Rock gets the team started and delivers enough damage here and there to make a difference in the game's outcome. Grass Knot is for those awful Swamperts that run rampant. I find that the rection of seeing Mesprit generally brings out Pert if they have it, plus Pert can run allover this team without this and Porgon2. Boltbeam is a standard, however Thunderbolt isn't seeming as appealing as HP Rock sounds at the moment. HP Rock for one can still cover Gyarados somewhat, as well as hit other Flying/Ice Pokemon decently. He also acts as my well appreciated Levitator, since neither Heatran nor Magnezone want to be taking Ground attacks any time soon.

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Magnet Pull
Timid
6 Hp/ 252 Sp Att/ 252 Spe
~Thunderbolt
~Flash Cannon
~Signal Beam
~HP Fire

We all know this as the dreaded Pokemon that ends Scizor sweeps. It's true. Thunderbolt hits fragile Pokemon for most of their hit Points and is a great STAB move. Flash Cannon is for hitting Rock Pokemon like Rhyperior hard since I'm not using HP Grass. It also hurts Mamoswine alot. HP Fire decimates Scizors and other Steel Types that get caught. Signal Beam isn't typical on Magnezone, but it proves quite useful. For one, I'd rather have it over a weak Explosion. Secondly, it OHKOs standard Celebis who expect to hit it with Earth Power.

Scizor @ Choice Band
Technician
Adamant
252 HP/ 252 Att/ 6 Def
~Bullet Punch
~U-turn
~Superpower
~Pursuit

What can I say about this guy? He's currently Smogon's most wanted and it's clear why: he's a beast. Bullet Punch OHKOs or 2HKOs just about every non resist in the game, and even some who do resist it. U-turn, however, is this guys biggest asset. It scouts for the opponents incoming Pokemon and delivers hard damage on top of that. Zapdos, for instance, switches in losing 25% health to Stealth Rock, gets hit for ~28% from U-turn, and is now in OHKO range for my incoming Magnezone. Superpower, I've altogether stopped using- I don't need it anymore. But just in case I predict a Heatran switch, better safe than sorry. It also happens to be my Blissey escape route. I could Superpower, but there are so many with Protect and Toxic noweadays that U-turn is the smarter option. Pursuit catches fleeing Pokemon hard, in fact not even 1% less hard than a Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit thanks to Technician. I don't really use this as a sweeper- it's job is to force switches. This is the dog that corrals the sheep.

Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Arena Trap
Jolly
6 HP/ 252 Att/ 252 Spe
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge
~Suckerpunch
~Aerial Ace

This guy can be a pain in the butt. The moveset is pretty much a given to the opponent but they can't do anything because they're trapped. Earthquake hits Blissey for around 54%, which is where it usually is after some residual damage. Stone Edge hits Flying types, even though they have the ability to flee Duggy's trap. Suckerpunch is great when you've got a Pokemon right where you need it. Aerial Ace is new to Dugtrio. I discovered that of the 4-5 losses of 50+ games, the game ended because Dugtrio couldn't take care of a Breloom in all but one loss, so now it's necessary.

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Trace
Bold
252 HP/ 136 Def/ 24 Sp Att/ 96 Sp Def
~Discharge
~Ice Beam
~Toxic
~Recover

This guy is muy main Defensive option to the threats that would otherwise unravel this team. Discharge provides Paralysis support and fits along nicely with Ice Beam. Toxic is for other defensive Pokemon like Vaporeon and Cresselia who are for the most part walled by this. Recover offers reliable recovery and in conjunction with Toxic, acts similarly to Wish Bliss. The best part, and most helpful utility of this Pokemon, though, is its ability. It can get it on Heatran without fear of Fire Blast, regain health from Vaporeon/Jolteon Surf/Thunderbolts, and rid itself of status by coming in on Blissey. Wonder Poke..

Heatran @ Wise Glasses
Flash Fire
Naive
6 Att/ 252 Sp Att/ 252 Spe
~Fire Blast
~Earth Power
~HP Electric
~Explosion

Heatran: Smogon's second most wanted. Twisted Spoon? Yes, when coupled with a Naive nature, it gives the appearance of a Choice Scarf. This is because the opponent cannot see the 6.25% recovery from Leftovers or the 10% recoil from Life Orb, making them assume that this is just every other Heatran around at the moment. A 10% addition to his Special Attack sin't much, but it is something and it fools just about every one I play. All I have to do is play it like a Scarf and remove it from play after a single attack. Fire Blast is the primary offensive action here, with Earth Power right behind it. I tend to get a lot of Gyarados switches on this and no one expects HP Electric; most use HP Ice to catch Outraging Salamences or HP Grass for Swampert. I can already fare with both, so HP Electric was next most logical. If I'm against a Blissey, I'll scout with Fire Blast, and if they use Protect that turn, it's unlikely that they'll switch, expecting ScarfTran, and I'll Explode on them the next. Also serves as a Fire resist since Scizor and Magnezone are weak to it, and because little Duggy isn't ever gonna take a STAB hit and live to tell the tale.


It's obvious that alot of the Pokemon on this team share common weaknesses, but thus far it hasn't proved a problem. I guess I'm posting here to get suggestions specifically on Mesprit (replacing him or his moves) and any other flaws or weaknesses that have not yet come to mind or experience.

How to deal with Smogon's Top 20:
1. Scizor- Force switches using Heatran and Scizor to Trap and kill with Scarf Magnezone.
2. Heatran- Dugtrio and my Heatran for non-Scarf versions. Porygon2/Mesprit for Scarfed ones.
3. Salamence- Scizor Bullet Punch works well, however Magnezone usually does the deed with a quick Thunderbolt.
4. Tyranitar- Scizor's U-turn/ Bullet Punch or trap with Dugtrio.
5. Zapdos- Stealth Rock and switching on my part. Zapdos is just careless with Stealth Rock up.
6. Blissey- Switching, hurting for a little damage at a time to be trapped by dugtrio.
7. Gyarados- Poor guy aways thinks he's faster than my Magnezone and is easily killed. Porygon2 and Mesprit are capable of taking him too.
8. Lucario- Outspeed, trap, and kill with Magnezone.
9. Infernape- Magnezone outspeeds and KOs with Thunderbolt. Dugtrio traps and KOs with Earthquake.
10. Gengar- Scizor Bullet Punches/Pursuits depending on instinct. Eaither way, KO as Scizor takes <50% from today's Gengar.
11. Metagross- Switch to Mesprit on an Earthquake, then to Magnzone on Meteor Mash. Dugtrio can also handle him if he's without Bullet Punch.
12. Swampert- Grass Knot on Mesprit helps out alot. Toxic on Porygon2 also does the job.
13. Bronzong- Smart playing. No sure-fire plan, but as long as Duggy's not in, there's not much Gyro Ball can do to anyone else.
14. Azelf- Mesprit can handles this. If not a leas Azelf, Dugtrio is capable of taking it one with Sucker Punch.
15. Celebi- Most are smart enough to avoid Scizor's U-turn, but not too many expect Magnezone's Signal Beam. Huge asset.
16. Vaporeon- U-turn to Porygon2 who Vaporeon cannot damage.
17. Shaymin-S- Bullet Punch Scizor, Mesprit Ice Beam, and takes ~60% from Duggy's Sucker Punch.
18. Starmie- Everyone but Heatran usually contributes to at least some part of Starmie's death. They all can deliver the damage, Heatran too if the switch is predicted.
19. Skamory- U-turn from Scizor to anyone but Dugtrio, preferably Magnezone who traps and kills.
20. Suicune- Not too difficult. They usually switch into Scizor (who pretty much only uses U-turn unless there's a guaranteed kill with another option) and Toxic/Discharge/Recover with Porygon2.

Other Pokemon to Mention:
Weavile- Scizor takes care of.
Forretress- It's basically taking care of Scizor, but 10 times easier.
Mamoswine- Heatran outspeeds Neutral Speed versions which equals most, but the unlikely Magnezone OHKOs with Flash cannon as well.
Hippowdon- Gets caught by Mespreits Grass Knot early on in the game and never gets the chance to recover to avoid dying.
Rhyperior- All have capability to cause some extent of damage, but usually requires skillful switching to avoid Earthquakes.

:jump:​

 

[Legacy Raider]

Hey there

On your Mespirit, have you considered running U-turn over Thunderbolt or Grass Knot. A slow U-turn from Mespirit would be great to scout the switch in and get one of your trappers in. I'm thinking about things like you U-turn on the switch and in comes say a Tyranitar to come and Pursuit you - you can go straight to Dugtrio to take it out. On a trapping team (I've used them before), U-turn is a great move to have.

Change your Porygon2's EV spread to 252 HP, 220 Def, 36 SpA. It is a much more useful spread as it allows you to counter all physical Salamence (bar CB) and Gyarados comfortably (your current spread takes more than 53% damage from LO Outrage, so can't counter Salamence). It also can survive 2 CB Dugtrio Earthquakes, trap it back and kill with Ice Beam.

On your Heatran, may I recommend Expert Belt or Shuca Berry as possibly better items than your Wise Glasses? I think both of them would be more helpful on Heatran than the small boost that Wise Glasses gives you, since most of your targets will be hit super effectively anyway.

Hope this helps.

LR.

 

[Raj]

Thanks. I'm really considering running U-turn on Mesprit now with a Relaxed nature. I'll try out the Porygon2 spread as well. As for Expert Belt on Heatran, I've been going back and forth between the two and honestly can't tell the difference there.

Also, thanks to whomever edited my post to correct what I could not.

 

[RaikouLover]

This is a cool team no doubt.

Just to correct, Scizor's Pursuit is NOT as powerful as Tyranitars. If the opponent is switching, Pursuit is 80 power and doesn't get the Technician boost anymore :-(.

But anyway, I am a little concerned with your lack of Water Resist. That is a problem. DD Kingdra or worse, Rain Dance Kingdra look like a total and complete bitch to this team. Rain Dance Mixdra 6-0s this team in the blink of an eye, as does any Rain Sweeper. SubPetaya Empoleon also again, rips this team a new asshole. Other than that, Porygon2 is definately holding this team together. Maybe Vaporeon can fill its slot? It can counter Gyarados still, and give you another check against Heatran.

I am also extremely concerned about fighting pokemon. Choice Scarf Heracross rips this team a new asshole. Bulk Up Machamp looks a bit threatening also...

 

[Raj]

I am glad you contributed RL, since you were one of the people I played today. Thanks.

I've been running into alot of Kingdras lately, but I've found that Mesprit/Magnezone/Porygon2 have been able to hold their own against it, though. You are right about the Fighting problem though, not so much Heracross, who can be dealt with by Bullet Punch, but Machamp in particular. Not one of my Pokemon can OHKO him so I've had to do alot of complicated switching to avoid Dynamic Punch and still get a good hit in. I'm really hoping that placing U-turn on Mesprit will aid in that problem letting me go back and forth between it and Scizor with only Mesprit taking Dynamic Punches.

 

[RaikouLover]

I think Empoleon is your greatest concern right now though. Since cycling through U-Turn and Bullet Punch can wear Machamp down. But Empoleon 6-0s you once it gets its agility in. And at the rate you are trapping and killing things, it WILL get its agility in. At 18% (last sub + SR) Scizor will fail to kill it with BP, it can Agility in Dugtrio's face to avoid Sucker Punch, then OHKO every member on this team...

 

[GaryMayhem]

Hmm, for your fighting problem you might be able to just put Shucca on Heatran and give him SR, who gets it up with ease and then give Mesprit psychic, which would also deal with pesky scarf Heatrans now that yours won't mind an earth power. It would not be a an automatic SR but T-tar is more common(2 in leads) than Swampert(17) right now when it comes to leads. This way you can somewhat deal with Machamp and still have levitate and something to get rid of pert.

Not sure if he should be to concerned with Emploen although he is 50 on the most used list. Does Magenzone not OHKO after SR?

 

[Gaborik]

Expert Belt > Wise Glasses on Heatran. You can even take out some special attack EV's and put them into HP with Expert Belt and still catch that OHKO on Gyarados (I can't remember the spread I used off the top of my head). +Speed Heatran is awesome at catching those Gyarados thinking you are set up bait.

Be careful of the offensive CM Suicunes, it does a number to this team. All it needs is that HP:Fire Magnezone for an easy chance at setup and cause lots of problems. RaikouLover is dead on with your problems with the majority of the setup water types. TyraniBoah is another huge problem for the team with lots of opportunities to set up (Heatran, Pory2, Magnezone, Mesprit) and then you have no real answer for his moves if he gets set up. You can revenge kill him easily, but put in a bad situation he is taking something out.

 

[Flying Machine]

For this (^) reason, you could try running max speed on Scizor, as CB U-turn does a lot (last time I remember, it did 50~% to a Swampert) to outrun TyraniBoah and break the substitute, and then go to Dugtrio to take a Flamethrower.( It can survive if you EV it, its been known to take +1 Raikou HP Grasses). In this way, you also outspeed most Suicunes who are not hyper offensive(This is not a given, though). And, you get the first Brick Break over opposing Scizors, although this won't matter due to the presence of Magnezone.

Also, a Salamence with +1(Dragon Danced) with a DD/Outrage/EQ/Flamethrower(its a bit of an old fashioned set) could OHKO all of your members, especially since Dugtrio cannot switch in, and Scizor eats a Flamethrower.

You will also want to watch out for Stall teams/ Spikers in general. They cause a heft 25% everytime you switch to 5/6 of your Pokemon, and since this is a trap themed team, you switch a lot. Toxic Spikes also hit Porygon and (lol) Dugtrio. (T)Spikes Shuffling will also cause you pain, especially Hippos.

You may consider replacing someone for a Rapid Spinner if it gets to be an issure. Slapping a Scarf onto Dugtrio will help advance your avenging capabilities, as you can sacrifice something like Mesprit, since Scizor+Porygon2 has great synergy in general, and Porygon2 is stopping the Gyarados sweeps. Swampert shouldn't be a problem since it lacks instant 50% recovery like Hippowdon.Scarf Duggy will also be a great 1 DD T-Tar/Gyarados/Salamence check, as well as revenging Heatran(Scarfed versions too, incase Porygon2 cannot switch in).

Infact, you could slap HP Grass on Heatran, as this OHKOs Swampert, and provides netural hits to Gyarados. Swampert is the best switch into Heatran mostly, so that will help.

EarthPower hits incoming Heatran, but it could be droppped for Explosion, going for FBlast/Explode(blissey :D)/HP Grass(pert :D gastrodon :D)/Substitute, or replace sub with EPower.( Or maybe use Baitran, it uses SR first to stop giving away its LO Recoil, and then, you can explode/attack depending on the situation. I recommend running Max Speed, it outruns 271,270, and the whole load of 245 speed Pokemon as Heatran reaches 278 after the Timid nature boost.).

This frees up the Mesprit slot, where you can use: Vaporeon. Run Surf(Tboah more coverage)/ Ice Beam / Wish / Protect, if you want to, as it will provide instant recovery for the Trappers, as well as the other members. When used correctly, stall can be laughed at as you recover 70%~ after taking 25% Spikes damage leaving you at 94% or something, and still in a position to kill. It will beat Infernape too, as well as provide you another Tran Counter/Scizor Counter. With some EV investment, you can Ice Beam Defensive Roost Zapdos to hell, as well as outspeed it. Maybe you can fix up SR somewhere else. Or heck, if you feel you need SR so much, then use your own Tyranitar.

And, what LegacyRaider suggests is true, even if you do stick with a U-Turn lead, then use a slow turner.
Yay for my first and longest rate ever >_>

This team has a lot of potential, and is pretty fun, so have fun playing it and a very good job making it. This can be very dangerous I see, especially on Suspect, as you can lure out Tyrantiar/Scizor, and go to Duggy/Magnezone to ruin their fun. GL!!

 

[Raj]

Magnezone gets the OHKO on Empoleon and even though it can cause problems, most likely it will not. The most any one on my team is taking from SR is 12.5%, and I haven't had any need for a Rapid Spinner yet. Maybe if I start seeing more Spikes, but Zone takes care of pretty much every Spiker.

BTW, that Salamence won't OHKO Mesprit or Porygon2, and Bullet Punch hits for ~70+%. The Heatran IS max Speed and Heatran isn't my option against Swampert, especially when most aren't KOd by HP Grass.

I've been giving it some thought and I think I might just try Uxie out over Mesprit. The benefits to that is that it's way more defensive. The bad parts are that it's less offensive and it's faster, so I'd have to run Relaxed and 0 Speed IVs, and even then it might be too fast.

~Since Platinum, I've been running 252 HP on Scizor since he's not all that fast to begin with. The HP does seem to being doing better than if I had invested in Speed though. For instance, against opposing Scizor, I take a little over 40% from Superpower, and mine do about 70% to non- defensive ones. Their Bullet Punches do 22% damage max to mine, while mine are a least 33%. Plus, if they've Superpowered all ready, they've got an Attack drop as well as a Defense drop. Should I go with 252 Speed?

~~~~~
I've replaced Mesprit with Uxie
Relaxed (18 Spe IV) @ Leftovers
252 HP/ 164 Def/ 80 Sp Att/ 14 Sp Def
~Stealth Rock
~U-turn
~Grass Knot
~Psychic

U-turn is now at 191 Speed. Grass Knot still helps out against Swampert and Psychic helps with Machamp and other fighting types. This thing just took 92 % from CB Tar Pursuit while U-turning. What does that mean about the Speed? Is it too fast or too slow?

 

[sbc]

Wouldn't Shuca Berry be better on Heatran since 10% boost is negligible anyway and at least Shuca means that a Scarf Dugtrio won't OHKO and helps if Porygon goes down since if you mispredict at that point Scarftran kills at least one pokemon.

 

[Woj]

Cool team however the novelty of a few pokes worries me. I have use P2 lately to little success besides dealin wit Gyara. Also the 3 choice items seems problematic. Just a few thoughts.