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Pokémon Entei
- Thread starter skies
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After lurking quite some time, entei looks amazing with sacred fire, being one of the best moves around. yet, does his stats make him as good as he seems? His attack is decent with 115 base and immunity it burn is great as a attacker but 115 attack is not "amazing". It speed is below mediocre. Its usable w/ max speed but with that it's attack suffers. Yet does havr a great priority in form of extremespeed when adamant. It has good hp, less good defenses. so my question is, is he as good as he seems with his stats?
Base 100 speed is fine. its not good its not bad. its problem more so is the fact it has to run Adamant to be useful (I.e. have Espeed) but thats not Enteis purpose. Entei wants to force switches and spread burns. so its speed is almost on Non issue (it hurts. not much), it comes in and burns/kills something with a CB Sacred Fire, may clean up late game with Espeed if necessary. but its primary purpose is not a sweeper although it can do that, nor is it a tank, although with burns on everything it can do that decently. Entei just punches holes and spreads burns thats all it does, it does it well and its stats compliment that perfectly.
in fact the only "good" switch ins i can think of are MegaZardX and Gliscor with poison heal active. otherwise you take too much damage from Sacred Fire and risk a burn
in fact the only "good" switch ins i can think of are MegaZardX and Gliscor with poison heal active. otherwise you take too much damage from Sacred Fire and risk a burn
Awesome explenation, thank you.
how about rotom-H. Does stone edge handle it? It's rising in usage as far as I saw.
oh yeah stone edge. if your predicted yes Rotom-H dies. so does ZardX now that i think about it. but how did i forget Heatran as a switch in.
yeah Entei is really good now.
yeah Entei is really good now.
Sacred Fire//Bulldoze//Extreme Speed//Stone Edge is what the norm has become.
Defensive Starmie can work pretty well too. With 248 HP EVs it takes a maximum of 46% from Stone Edge, 34% from Sacred Fire and 37% from Extremespeed. Even with a burn, Recover+Leftovers still nets a gain in HP vs. Stone Edge most times, allowing Starmie to wear down Entei using Surf or Scald (Scald 2hkos any Entei besides Assault Vest, even with no investment). Unlike most switch-ins, burning a Starmie and getting out isn't really a success due to Natural Cure.
Think about it this way: With 0 EVs in HP, Entei has 371 HP. Each switch-in to rocks (or any effect that takes off a quarter of your health) does 92 damage, so after one switch-in, you have 279 HP.
With 4 EVs in HP, you have 372 HP, and switching into rocks does 93 damage. After one switch-in, you still have 279 HP, so you might as well have thrown those last EVs into a defense stat so those 279 HP are worth a bit more.
Switching into rocks more than once actually leaves you with less HP if you put those 4 EVs into HP.
It doesn't take 4 switches for the lack of HP EVs to have a purpose.
Sacred Fire/Extremespeed/Stone Edge are basically non-negotiable then you go with either Iron Head/Iron Tail or Bulldoze. Some more gimmicky options are Howl, Flame Charge or Overheat which could all be useful in rare situations.
Another move that you could run on the 4th slot that is a bit gimmicky is Sleep Talk. It's very situational, but could be neat on a team that doesn't have a pokemon to absorb sleep.
there is all this talk of burn absorbers for sacred fire, but the most common WoW user is rotom-w who beats all fire types that can absorb burns. that only leaves natural cure users who are almost all grass types, and teams with a cleric. You really can't account for both rotom-w and entei's sacred fire with one burn absorber. the only thing that isn't weak to fire or water/electric is altaria and... altaria sucks. poison heal falls under the same thing: breloom loses to entei, and gliscor loses to rotom. Guts pokemon are the only way to deal with it effectively, and good guts pokemon are quite rare.
so I think sacred fire's burn potential is being underrated a bit. rotom-w is fucking everywhere so I'd imagine most people are carrying burn absorbers specifically for it and going to get trounced by sacred fire.
so I think sacred fire's burn potential is being underrated a bit. rotom-w is fucking everywhere so I'd imagine most people are carrying burn absorbers specifically for it and going to get trounced by sacred fire.
Could Entei viably run Snowball instead of a Choice Band? The idea is that you would send out a Dragon to lure Ice attacks and then switch into Entei.
Honestly, after testing the choice band set for hours i wasnt really impressed by it. Maybe the assault vest set can be better but choice band entei simply isnt very good. It cant really switch in well because its weak to so many common things so you cant really take advantage of sacred fire in the same way that ho-oh does. In fact you will simply never run out of it just because of how little opportunities entei gets to come in. Extreme Speed is a great priority but the lack of stab and entei only decent 115 attack means it inst really that strong and fails to ko many things even after several prior damage. Base 100 speed is ok but fails to outspeed a huge part of the tier and again, extreme speed doesnt solve that problem very well. However when entei does comes in, its very hard to switch into, even bulky waters must be careful around burn+hazards chip damage that can do stuff like 2hko sp def jellicent. Still its just too hard to get in and will probably remain as a niche. But i do want to see what assault vest entei can do.
i built a volt turn core (standardish Lando-T/MManectric with a Genesect for added measure) to get Entei in. and once it gets in its hard to force out. i found it to be really good but getting it in IS its biggest problem.
Has anyone ever considered good ol' Hp Ice? Even with the nerf it still hits Gliscor, Landrous (T), Dragonite, Salamence, etc for massive damage. By dropping Stone Edge you only lose out on Gyrados and fire types not named Heatran. Sacred Fire/Espeed/Hp Ice/Bulldoze is what i would use.
0- SpA Entei Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 172-204 (53.7 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- SpA Entei Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 172-204 (53.7 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Entei Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 72-86 (22.2 - 26.5%) -- 14.8% chance to 4HKO
0- SpA Entei Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 144-172 (44.4 - 53%) -- 26.2% chance to 2HKO
0- SpA Entei Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 172-204 (51.9 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- SpA Entei Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 180-216 (50.8 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
All of them except Gliscor can either OHKO in return, or set up in its face, then OHKO.
The only Guts type you need is Conkeldurr, who loves Burn to boost its Drain Punch and Assault Vest helps it eats Hydro Pumps.
If you're having trouble with switch ins Balloon is always an option. Being able to come in damage free as opposed to simply reduced damage is always nice.
Those are actually pretty nice calcs. If SR is up they are all guarenteed 2HKO's. That surely beats having to spam an intimidated Sacred Fire against Landorous-T or not being able to ever kill poison heal Gliscor. Getting passed counters so you can burn more stuff is the key to using Entei, and Hp ice lets him do that much better then Stone Miss does.
Salamence and dragonite are destroyed by stone edge, landorus is destroyed by sacred fire, landorus-t can take one sacred fire but takes a lot of damage in the process and risks beings burned, gliscor can still stall hp ice (and any other move entei has) with sub+protect so its a moot point. Seriously dont use hidden power.
That was the whole point of my post.
Yeah i know, i was just quoting it because of the calcs.
I'm talking about the Assult Vest set, obviously Stone Edge is better on a Choice Band set. Mence and D-Nite are more reliably destroyed by Hp Ice, Landorus-T can take alot of Sacred Fires, and even if it is ruined by a burn you still want it dead ASAP so you can burn more stuff instead of being forced out. Gliscor being 2HKO'd on the switch is MUCH better then it being able to switch in freely whenever it wants. A burn+Hp Ice+the threat of Espeed is enough to force Dragonite to continuously roost, while it can easily stall out Stone Edge/fish for misses. Seriously don't use stone edge on the Assult Vest set. Gyrados will just Intimidate+Mevolve on you, and Talonflame is easy to wall. What else is it good for in OU?
-1 252+ Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 120-142 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Some run more defense. Lets see what a burned Landorous-T does to you:
-2 252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Entei: 204-242 (47 - 55.7%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO
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