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OU Entei
- Thread starter Vert
- Start date
Removed, and Extremespeed comes with an event with Pressure, so it doesn't come with FF. But yea, there could be an another event, I removed it.
For Team Options, how about suggesting some Pokemon that can effectively deal with Ghosts so it can freely spam ExtremeSpeed.
Mega Blastoise is a good option if one has an available Mega slot since it can offensive deal with Ghosts with pseudo STAB Dark Pulse and/or spin hazards away.
Mega Blastoise is a good option if one has an available Mega slot since it can offensive deal with Ghosts with pseudo STAB Dark Pulse and/or spin hazards away.
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8 EVs in speed is not enough for jolly tyranitar,
or am i missing something?
or am i missing something?
You're right. It needs 32 Speed EVs to outpace max speed non-mega Ttar.
Although, Ttar only runs max spe+ when it's a dd variant or a scarf variant. It should probably be revised.
I'll fix that
Honestly, Substitute hurts Entei's longetivity, which is why I'm not using it, and if you want power then, you need LO which sucks with Substitute (pls no subsplit gengar mention, ik). On top of that, Stealth Rock and residual damage is also troublesome and it doesn't hit nearly hard enough with CB. AV takes advantage of its good bulk and uses it without wasting 25% of your HP for a Substitute you don't need, since this thing is hit / tank and run. I don't even think it deserves even an OO mention.
ill add it
Is QC going to check this soon or what? Because its been sitting here for a very long time, and QC hasn't really stumbledupon it.
I've had rather good luck with substitute on a sun team (Team is 10-1 in OU if that means anything with the currently screwy ranking board). It works very well with Leftovers, and a mono-fire typing has 6 resistances, making it relatively easy to force switch outs. The residual damage isn't nice, but I think being able to safely burn opponents justifies a place in other options.
I don't think you are really using Entei to its max potential. If you want to use something with Substitute + Fire-SPAM, user Mega Charizard Y, who most likely can sweep better. You can fit in a other coverage move with Extremespeed too if you want. Almost nothing can switch into Sacred Fire in sun ans most survivors are killed by Extremespeed afterwards. There is an item called a "Life Orb" which boosts this things attack even higher, and Extremespeed will hit really hard and Sacred Fire kills most of the frail metagame. Stone Edge hits what everything else can't and Bulldoze provides additonal coverage. Stick with Life Orb. Substitute is a waste considering that it needs all 4 moves to function well. Substitute honestly just wastes that bulk and using something like CB or AV is much better.
You are mentioning flare blitz way too often. Entei should never run this move, ever. It has redundant coverage with sacred fire, and sacred fire itself is irreplaceable.
I'm not sure about Assault Vest Entei getting a set. Yeah, it handles Genesect and Mega Charizard Y REALLY well, but it's weak to Stealth Rock and has absolutely no form of recovery with an Assault Vest. I can see some merit in special bulk, but the set doesn't really do it for me. It's just way too easy to wear down, especially since it's practically impossible for you to guarantee the lack of Stealth Rock when Megazard Y comes in and you need to handle it ASAP, and you have no recovery whatsoever.
Also, without a Choice Band, Entei's power really suffers. For the purpose of demonstration, it loses the ability to 2HKO Chansey, and doesn't even get a sizable chance unless SR and 3 layers of Spikes are up (basically 100% at that point -- 98.8%, but that's really not significant), not even getting a chance to 2HKO after SR and 1 layer Spikes, and a really tiny chance after 2 (10.5%). The scale of power you lose is massive. After checking some calcs, I've figured you lose an average to 25% in damage output. That's really significant, and makes Entei miss a ton of OHKOs and 2HKOs.
Yes, I realize that the AV set has a purpose, but Entei can fulfill that purpose without even running an Assault Vest and simply choosing to invest in HP. I don't see it as a main set.
Also, without a Choice Band, Entei's power really suffers. For the purpose of demonstration, it loses the ability to 2HKO Chansey, and doesn't even get a sizable chance unless SR and 3 layers of Spikes are up (basically 100% at that point -- 98.8%, but that's really not significant), not even getting a chance to 2HKO after SR and 1 layer Spikes, and a really tiny chance after 2 (10.5%). The scale of power you lose is massive. After checking some calcs, I've figured you lose an average to 25% in damage output. That's really significant, and makes Entei miss a ton of OHKOs and 2HKOs.
Yes, I realize that the AV set has a purpose, but Entei can fulfill that purpose without even running an Assault Vest and simply choosing to invest in HP. I don't see it as a main set.
While good points, Choice Band unfortunately only forces more switches where, if Stealth Rock is hampering your longevity, then this does you no favors. Entei does really well paired with a Defog/Wish Latias who is immune to Earthquake and resists Water, and Entei resists Ice and Fairy if need be.
Be cause Entei is forced out as often as he forces others out, he rarely benefits from Leftovers as much as he could. Entei does have good HP, maybe a set like this could work well.
Entei@Leftovers
Pressure
Careful 136 HP / 112 Df / 252 SpD / 4 Spd
~ Sacred Fire
~ Substitute
~ Roar
~ Bulldoze/Protect/Stone Edge
This set helps Entei do his job better, spreading burn and forcing switches. Substitute is a good buffer to fire Sacred Fire from behind, Protect helps you scout and gain recovery and burn damage, and Roar punishes set up sweepers or would be counters, making it really hard for the opponent to get the move off that they want. Bulldoze can be good for slowing down incoming enemies, otherwise Stone Edge simply hits hard. You'd have to go Adamant for ExtremeSpeed, which could be handy but not without Atk investment really.
The HP allows 101 Subs with an odd number, and Max SpD so Genesect gets the physical Download boost and to help on the special side in general from you burning stuff.
Yeah, Heatran is usually much better at stalling and can do everything but Sacred Fire, but Entei does have much better speed as well as Pressure. I think with Sacred Fire and Roar you can ruin many of the opponents potential sweepers in advance. The main problem of course is Sacred Fire's PP, and the fact that Moltres gets Pressure as well as Roost.
sacred fire does not make contact; there is no reason to use bulldoze against aegislash
Okay, I did some extensive testing. There is some power difference and I realized it required SR to be off at all times so it wouldn't be worn down. The damage output is pretty sad too and I find it to be even more worn out be Sand and it can't even OHKO Heatran with Bulldoze. I'm removing the set. I don't like Jaroda's set. After I tested it out, it does nothing except send out rather weak (its uninvested) and Substitute was justa waste setting up. I'd rather use the AV set over that set thanks to the higher damage output and coverage. Roar was useless, and it doesn't work well in practice. It's really gimmicky, trust me. Too many things can stall out that weak Sacred Fire with Roost or Recover.
It's going to OO.
It's going to OO.
Are Howl or Flame Charge worth considering? Edit: Oh, and apparently Natural Gift got a power boost by 20, so what about using that?
Howl is bad. You can use Choice Band and get the immediate +1 and its a waste of a moveslot. Flame Charge is not worth it. Maybe when Flash Fire comes out, it will get an OO with the update. Natural Gift does nothing that Entei's coverage can't do. Losing CB sucks too.
Wondering if RestTalk deserves testing? Something like this;
Entei @ Leftovers
248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish - Pressure
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Sacred Fire
-Roar
Makes a helluva good check to Talonflame with Stealth Rock support, admittedly not as good as Heatran. It can spread burns with Sacred Fire and phaze with Roar while keeping its HP high with RestTalk. Sleep Talk doesn't burn Sacred Fire PP too which is useful. EV spread was just Stealth Rock number in HP, max Def, rest in Atk, there is probably a much better spread out there. Its niche over Heatran is its ability to deal decent damage and spread burn simultaneously, Lava Plume is vastly inferior to Sacred Fire on this front. Another small advantage is the lack of fighting weakness, making Entei a more reliable check to Sacred Sword Aegislash and Superpower (Mega-)Scizor. Thoughts?
Entei @ Leftovers
248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish - Pressure
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Sacred Fire
-Roar
Makes a helluva good check to Talonflame with Stealth Rock support, admittedly not as good as Heatran. It can spread burns with Sacred Fire and phaze with Roar while keeping its HP high with RestTalk. Sleep Talk doesn't burn Sacred Fire PP too which is useful. EV spread was just Stealth Rock number in HP, max Def, rest in Atk, there is probably a much better spread out there. Its niche over Heatran is its ability to deal decent damage and spread burn simultaneously, Lava Plume is vastly inferior to Sacred Fire on this front. Another small advantage is the lack of fighting weakness, making Entei a more reliable check to Sacred Sword Aegislash and Superpower (Mega-)Scizor. Thoughts?
No. The only thing Entei wants to do is SPAM deadly Sacred Fires and burn everything. Using a defensive stet wastes it's amazing offensive potential since it has ESpeed
I don't want to see any new sets on this thread because CB is the only set that needs a set here. This is QC ready for a long time. Can someone please check this? Thanks.
Overview
You can also mention Rotom-W and Gyarados as typical Entei switch-ins that hate being burned.
Instead of saying its base Attack and Speed lets it use the move well, I'd simply say that it has the offensive presence to be a threat.
Remove the rain nerf point, it's unnecessary to say.
I would say it's hazard weak, not just Stealth Rock weak (its affected by every hazard).
Remove the last point, that goes for everything...
Moves
Remove Tyrantrum in the Sacred Fire comment, and I would also say that the burn chance can bring 2HKOs or OHKOs that Entei otherwise would've not achieved.
Remove Aggron, he's too uncommon to warrant mention.
Set Details
An Adamant nature is mainly used to get the most out of Sacred Fire. Extreme Speed helps mitigate the loss of speed and allows for stronger revenge killing potential.
Usage Tips
I would stress that Sacred Fire is what needs to be spammed most often.
Remove the Sticky Web mention and put that in the Team Options.
Remove the mixed CB mention altogether, that's stupid.
For the last point, just say to only use Extreme Speed sparingly to prevent being a liability. Only use it when its necessary or the opponent can't directly take advantage of it.
You should also mention to predict switch-ins like Talonflame and Heatran and use the appropriate coverage attack. You don't want to needlessly waste Sacred Fire PP.
Team Options
Remove Genesect, it's banned.
Remove Latias, that's not guaranteed and isn't even necessary... CM Latias is also not that great this time around.
Remove Blissey. No one's going to use Blissey on an Entei team with Deoxys-S... It should be used on bulky/hyper offense.
Remove Mega Blastoise, he's not that great of a hazard removal Pokemon.
I would make a mention of pairing Entei with late-game cleaners, such as Mega Pinsir and Mega Mawile. These two can clean a weakened team pretty well and can even have an easier time Swords Dance boosting against burned targets.
Other Options
Make a mention of using Howl on a forced switch, empowering Entei's attacks to CB level and retaining the freedom to switch attacks. Good items to use are Leftovers and Life Orb.
Remove the last two points. You don't need to bring those up.
Checks and Counters
Remove the AV Entei mentions, it's not a main set and is rather uncommon. This means you remove CM Clefable and Reuniclus since they're not setting up on Sacred Fire anytime soon.
You can include RestTalk Gyarados, Crocune Suicune, Vaporeon, Quagsire, and Gastrodon as more counters.
QC 1/3
You can also mention Rotom-W and Gyarados as typical Entei switch-ins that hate being burned.
Instead of saying its base Attack and Speed lets it use the move well, I'd simply say that it has the offensive presence to be a threat.
Remove the rain nerf point, it's unnecessary to say.
I would say it's hazard weak, not just Stealth Rock weak (its affected by every hazard).
Remove the last point, that goes for everything...
Moves
Remove Tyrantrum in the Sacred Fire comment, and I would also say that the burn chance can bring 2HKOs or OHKOs that Entei otherwise would've not achieved.
Remove Aggron, he's too uncommon to warrant mention.
Set Details
An Adamant nature is mainly used to get the most out of Sacred Fire. Extreme Speed helps mitigate the loss of speed and allows for stronger revenge killing potential.
Usage Tips
I would stress that Sacred Fire is what needs to be spammed most often.
Remove the Sticky Web mention and put that in the Team Options.
Remove the mixed CB mention altogether, that's stupid.
For the last point, just say to only use Extreme Speed sparingly to prevent being a liability. Only use it when its necessary or the opponent can't directly take advantage of it.
You should also mention to predict switch-ins like Talonflame and Heatran and use the appropriate coverage attack. You don't want to needlessly waste Sacred Fire PP.
Team Options
Remove Genesect, it's banned.
Remove Latias, that's not guaranteed and isn't even necessary... CM Latias is also not that great this time around.
Remove Blissey. No one's going to use Blissey on an Entei team with Deoxys-S... It should be used on bulky/hyper offense.
Remove Mega Blastoise, he's not that great of a hazard removal Pokemon.
I would make a mention of pairing Entei with late-game cleaners, such as Mega Pinsir and Mega Mawile. These two can clean a weakened team pretty well and can even have an easier time Swords Dance boosting against burned targets.
Other Options
Make a mention of using Howl on a forced switch, empowering Entei's attacks to CB level and retaining the freedom to switch attacks. Good items to use are Leftovers and Life Orb.
Remove the last two points. You don't need to bring those up.
Checks and Counters
Remove the AV Entei mentions, it's not a main set and is rather uncommon. This means you remove CM Clefable and Reuniclus since they're not setting up on Sacred Fire anytime soon.
You can include RestTalk Gyarados, Crocune Suicune, Vaporeon, Quagsire, and Gastrodon as more counters.
QC 1/3
I implemented all but Vaporeon because it's trash this generation. Thanks.You can include RestTalk Gyarados, Crocune Suicune, Vaporeon, Quagsire, and Gastrodon as more counters.
QC 1/3
Alright. This can get a second QC check.
With the ease of removing hazards and the fact that Entei no longer has to suffer from Flare Blitz recoil, I'd argue for Life Orb to be slashed with Choice Band, I've been testing it and to be quite honest I often preferred it to being locked into a move.
When your opponent has Heatran it's now much safer to just spam Sacred Fire, as: 252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 328-390 (84.9 - 101%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. you're almost guaranteed to get the kill after Stealth Rock, and you don't even need it for more offensive versions.
Sacred Fire with LO is also still a guaranteed OHKO on 252 HP Aegislash: 252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 304-359 (93.8 - 110.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock.
Another really beautiful example is using ExtremeSpeed to finish off things that can switch in on one Sacred Fire, but can't take a next move a that outspeed Entei. Talonflame is a perfect example, as Sacred Fire deals ~50%, and then ExtremeSpeed also deals a minimum of 51%, meaning that it's never a safe switchin. This also means that Entei isn't robbed of a OHKO on Talonflame after Stealth Rock. Greninja is another Pokemon that in an emergecy could switch in on Sacred Fire, but is then finished off by ExtremeSpeed.
In short, Life Orb has a tad less wallbreaking power than Life Orb, but Life Orb fares considerably better against offensive threats, and doesn't need to switch in and out so often.
When your opponent has Heatran it's now much safer to just spam Sacred Fire, as: 252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 328-390 (84.9 - 101%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. you're almost guaranteed to get the kill after Stealth Rock, and you don't even need it for more offensive versions.
Sacred Fire with LO is also still a guaranteed OHKO on 252 HP Aegislash: 252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 304-359 (93.8 - 110.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock.
Another really beautiful example is using ExtremeSpeed to finish off things that can switch in on one Sacred Fire, but can't take a next move a that outspeed Entei. Talonflame is a perfect example, as Sacred Fire deals ~50%, and then ExtremeSpeed also deals a minimum of 51%, meaning that it's never a safe switchin. This also means that Entei isn't robbed of a OHKO on Talonflame after Stealth Rock. Greninja is another Pokemon that in an emergecy could switch in on Sacred Fire, but is then finished off by ExtremeSpeed.
In short, Life Orb has a tad less wallbreaking power than Life Orb, but Life Orb fares considerably better against offensive threats, and doesn't need to switch in and out so often.
That actually makes a lot more sense to me honestly. I would even go as far as to say that Choice Band can get a mention in the comments and make Life Orb the only item. Life Orb Entei seems a lot more reliable just because the freedom to switch moves and thus pick off things with Extreme Speed more easily is gold.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
then why wouldnt u use cb lol
it's already SR weak and being able to espeed talonflame / dragonite, both of which have several common and easy-to-fit switch-ins for teams, isn't rly a compelling argument for me