Essay by a teacher in a black high school

[elcheeso]

Protip Mike: Being "extremely liberal" is not the same thing as not being racist. Not even fucking close. Also I think you missed one of his later paragraphs if you really didn't think he wasn't bashing black people.

How did my experiences make me feel about blacks? Ultimately, I lost sympathy for them.

Followed by:

The point is that human beings are not always rational. It is in the black man's interest to have whites in Zimbabwe but he drives them out and starves. Most whites do not think black Americans could ever do anything so irrational. They see blacks on television smiling, fighting evil whites, embodying white values. But the real black is not on television, and you pull your purse closer when you see him, and you lock the car doors when he swaggers by with his pants hanging down almost to his knees.

That's not to dismiss his bullshit where he stops talking about his students and instead uses "blacks act this way" or "whites wouldn't understand how all blacks are the same" or any of the particularly horrible dehumanising paragraphs either, but you might've been able to make a case for him still referring to his students, or perhaps, black students in general (which would also be bullshit unless he is seriously trying to suggest that next to none of the stated 85% deserved to pass)... but not after the quoted shit. Especially fun was the part where he tries to justify the racism of his friend because omg black people work in fast food HE HAD ENOUGH OF DEALING WITH THOSE ALL DAMN BLACKS ON THE JOB! That poor man. We should be disgusted at the blacks for forcing him to be racist!

I was looking for a word for a word that describes the sort of bullshit you're complaining about, something about generalising about a certain ethnic group or people with a shared cultural heritage, but as I don't know any offhand I'm just going to say this. Fuck your and your black best friend's racism. There's a discussion that could be had here regarding attitudes towards education amongst some students (probably not in this thread, though), probably due to a lot of different factors like poverty/environment/distrust of a system that they feel (and are accurate in feeling) is stacked against them, amongst other things. However... if your attitude is like the essay writer and you don't think it's something that can be changed, then it isn't a discussion you should be involved in. It's just complaining otherwise, and no one gives a shit about your complaints with the possible exception of your friends, family and the complaints thread.

Slow but steady...

 

[Style_Dota]

Lol jeez. Yeah I missed that last part, but calm the fuck down. I meant that its hard to attack the root of a problem because its difficult to change a culture that has been set in its ways for a certain period of time. Its the same way with every single fucking culture, even racism towards blacks (and really any race), sexism towards women or homophobia towards LGBTQ couples, which still exist in american culture today despite the large attempt to fix it. It's not racism, and you obviously missed that part. I never said I agreed with his essay, I merely said that I though he brought up an interesting issue about lower class African American culture. In the parts I noticed, which dealt with education, it seems that there is a link between this culture and educational standards, and as a potential teacher and a mathmatician, I find this interesting, since i want to try to fix the problem. Get off your fucking high horse when I'm merely stating an opinion on how I feel about a potentially self destructive social-caused culture, and not a race as a whole, which I stated several times.

In short, grow up and read my content before bashing me and calling me a racist. There is an issue with lower class African American education, and if you don't know that, then you're either blind of this fact or dead set on believing that it's racism. Demographics don't lie, and I was merely stating an opinion.

Thank you, and have a nice day.

 

[elcheeso]

It's not race, it's just that almost every word of his essay dripped racism but you didn't have the reading comprehension to realise it. Said reading comprehension also didn't pick up that I specifically said I wasn't using racism in the traditional sense and told you how I meant it. You then went on to complain about how I don't know what racism means, not only here, but in the complaints thread. America's next generation of teachers sure is looking bright!

Also you claimed to be talking about lower-class African American culture, but then talked about AA people going to your college which I'm assuming isn't free and I'm also assuming they aren't lower class idiots who don't want to learn because they wouldn't be paying for or dealing with scholarships to colleges (as if they would get scholarships if they were ANYTHING like the kids described in that essay) if that was the case. If they only planned to leech off the government because they want to steal the white mans money, then why on fucking earth would they bother? This is why I called you out, beyond the whole being too clueless to see that the racism essay was indeed all about race and saving the white kids from those terrible darkies. Oh, what's that, he said that there are exceptions and that only the vast majority of black people are like this, while only a few whites are bad? Oh, my mistake! He must be a regular MLK. Good thing you were here to set me straight.

PS: Fuck your racism.
PPS: I was merely stating my opinion that your opinions suck. Funny how that works, isn't it?

 

[Spinda]

Where's my popcorn

 

[blitzlefan]

Seriously guys, I don't get the point of this thread. What was it supposed to accomplish? Obviously, we can't have a decent discussion, because anybody not saying or implying that the writer of the article is racist is going to get slammed with "you're racist!!!". Therefore, we can't actually have an argument. All we're going to learn is that racism is bad, as "U R RACIST" has been shown to be the end all, be all statement in this thread.

Let's just all calm down. I don't like the author's sentiments either, but obviously, as none of us know what he's experienced or what his mindset was when he wrote the article, I don't think any of us have the right to pass judgment.

Oh! Also, if any future arguments are made that can be summed up with "you are racist" or "the author is racist", don't waste your time and just like this post instead! Like seriously, I'm losing to both Mack the Knife and Shiruba ;_;.

Edit @ below: Thank goodness! Smartass to the rescue!

 

[Spinda]

Seriously guys, I don't get the point of this thread. What was it supposed to accomplish? Obviously, we can't have a decent discussion, because anybody not saying or implying that the writer of the article is racist is going to get slammed with "you're racist!!!". Therefore, we can't actually have an argument. All we're going to learn is that racism is bad, as "U R RACIST" has been shown to be the end all, be all statement in this thread.

Let's just all calm down. I don't like the author's sentiments either, but obviously, as none of us know what he's experienced or what his mindset was when he wrote the article, I don't think any of us have the right to pass judgment.

Oh! Also, if any future arguments are made that can be summed up with "you are racist" or "the author is racist", don't waste your time and just like this post instead! Like seriously, I'm losing to both Mack the Knife and Shiruba ;_;.

I thought we had the right to pass judgment on anyone at any time

 

[Style_Dota]

It's just complaining otherwise, and no one gives a shit about your complaints with the possible exception of your friends, family and the complaints thread.

Yes, I posted in the complaints thread, due to your abrasive attitude and general lack of respect. You on e again fail to realize what I am saying and since it goes against your moral code, you're assuming I am a racist when I am not. Good for you that you care about this, but your closed minded thinking is just adding fuel to the flame. Not everything is racist boy.

I also fail to see the point of your argument against my college. I was stating a different demographic than the students that went to my school. They do not fall in lower class African American public high schools, and therefore are irrelevant to any claim you're trying to make.

In addition, when did I ever say that there were no fuck ups with white Americans? You're attacking claims that I have never made due to your bitterness towards the essay, and thinking that I am in the exact same mind set, when once again I am observing a specific demographic. If you want to talk about how central white Americans are being hindered by their education system by not being taught the scientific method in some schools, would that make you feel better?

My reading comprehension is not off, your attacking tone in your post, lack of respect of my opinion, and overall abrasiveness led me to take you less seriously. If you want me to define how you view racism by your post, here it is: Being "extremely liberal" is not the same thing as not being racist. Attacking my intelligence or my opinion of (key word here) a demographic wont get you anywhere due to your general rudeness. If you want to have a mature conversation about this instead, I would be more than happy to dispel your ideas of my racism and explain how it's the education systems fault for feeding into the cultural state of this as well as a ore conceived notion of education in some areas. There are courses on how to deal with children from these areas for teachers working in lower class areas, both white and black. However, this "essay" talks about the lower class African American demographic.

To be honest, I didn't even read the shit about the McDonald's workers or whatever, I was mainly reading the replys to the thread, which is what really sparked my interest.

P.s. saying fuck your racism over and over again won't make you win an argument, it will just make you seem like you lack an actual response to me.

P.p.s. you're allowed to disapprove of my opinion, but I don't disapprove of yours, nor am I attacking any of your claims, I am merely stating you are over reacting and need to calm down.

Relax, have a beer, cool off, and shoot me a pm so we can perhaps have an actual intelligent conversation instead of one person stating their opinion and the other simply telling the one to fuck off, Kay? Thanks.

Also, any spelling errors are due to the fact that I hate iPhones.

 

[Tayla]

Just because Mike agrees with the poster that there is a problem with the African American culture does not make him a racist. Just saying. Arguing it out amongst yourselves isn't accomplishing anything, either.. You shouldn't attack someone for their opinion, then get angry when they respond to you about yours. :/

 

[Every1XplodeNOW]

The racism is blatantly obvious in this essay, so I'm not even going to address that.

Even though I agree with the op that some of this could be true, some of the examples don't apply to just African Americans. For example, I went to a school in southwest Virginia where it was mostly white, if I had to give a number, it was like 95% white. Some of the stuff that this teacher complained about could be said about some of the people that went to my school, you just exchange the stereotypes. I'm guessing this guy is white and wasn't raised in the location where he's teaching, at least he doesn't sound like it. This isn't his norm and it creates an illusion of being drastically different when in fact, it's very similar. Now I might be totally off base with this because I've never had the experience of attending a all black school, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I just think they're being teenagers and teenagers can be unruly-problematic-ungrateful assholes regardless of their race and culture.

 

[elcheeso]

Sigh. I really didn't want to post three times in a row here, but if you want to continue doing this, then fine. I prefer not to do PMs with this shit, so unless you want to hit me up on IRC, I'm going to pass. Anyway, I'm not angry, mostly amused, especially by your attempts to paint me as some sort of overemotional zealot who is enraged by your opinions. My attitude is sarcastic, probably abrasive, certainly with a bit of disrespect (only a bit though)... but angry? Nah. I actually don't bother posting when I'm pissed off. I swear a lot though, for reference, regardless of how MAD RAGED I am. I just really think you need to read both the essay and what I said very closely, especially if you're not getting that I never told you to fuck off. I specifically went out of my way to say fuck your racism, as defined in my first post (so specifically what you were saying on the topic), rather than go for a more personal "you're shit because your opinions are shit" (which I don't believe anyway). Also the fuck your racism lines were like one line out of eight, you'll have to do a bit better to prove my posts are contentless based on them. Tone based arguments are kind of silly for the most part, unless the point is that someone is intentionally trying to derail a discussion. I think the fact that I was posting a fair bit of content per post shows that I wasn't, though.

My problem with your whole attitude coming into it was that you were making assumptions about people's reactions to the essay without having read it properly. I think I showed why people are taking it as racist in the usual sense of the word, and if you're denying that at this point you'd need some really quality arguments to back your point up because this kind of shit doesn't get more transparent. Now you're saying that you didn't read the stuff about the fast food workers and were really just responding to the replies in this thread. Which was it? Was his essay and interesting read and not-in-any-way-racist-despite-the-obvious-race-baiting, or did you only skim it and wanted to put down anyone for thinking it was racist? Or you read it all really thoroughly and just forgot the swathes of paragraphs with the exceptionally poignant racism and somehow felt compelled to make a post about how not racist it is?

Also, the thing with the African American students in your college was more about the point you were trying to make.

I've viewed this at my college too. We are a very small, liberal arts school. We don't have too many black students, and most of them are foreign, not Africa. Americn. When you see the African American students, you see them displaying the cultural signs portrayed in this essay, not as extreme, since these kids are educated, but it is clear they are defining themselves by a set social paradigm. You never see non-american blacks acting this way.

Bolded for emphasis and all that shit. If you were trying to make a point about lower class black high school students, why would you bring up presumably non-lower class black college students, who have absolutely no connection to the former except for their ethnicity, so to speak? This is why I said fuck you and your friend's racism (speaking in terms of an anti-ethnicity/cultural viewpoint), because you've gone outside of the demographic you proposed to want to talk about, and instead used an example of people who share nothing in common with the demographic you mentioned bar "race"/ethnicity/shared cultural heritage... and by logically extending it, you're suggesting that the major cultural or social paradigm for African Americans as a whole is essentially "lazy fuckups who want to steal white money, be fat, have sex while being incapable of love and blame everything on racism". While you probably didn't intend for it to come off that way, your intent largely doesn't matter, because it's still something you've put out there in the public sphere which is very easy to interpret in the way I mentioned (also intent isn't magic, all that good shit).

Incidentally, talking about white kids in the central US not being taught the scientific method would have several problems. The most glaring being that all kids in the schools that don't do it don't get taught it, limiting the discussion to white kids only would be doing a huge disservice to the non-white kids being part of the system. Not to mention I have my doubts about the scientific method in general not being taught, just "hot button" topics like evolution. While ridiculous, it's not quite as huge a failure as not teaching the scientific method, which comprises the basis of all scientific disciplines, as opposed to evolution which "just" comprises one of the two pillars of biology. Not the best comparison.

Anyway, hit me up on IRC if you really want to discuss it further.

 

[Myzozoa]

When you see the African American students, you see them displaying the cultural signs portrayed in this essay, not as extreme, since these kids are educated, but it is clear they are defining themselves by a set social paradigm. You never see non-american blacks acting this way.

really? because I see white people acting in accordance with their cultural paradigm all the time, especially when they're interacting with people who share that paradigm. All humans act this way, it is a necessary social skill. When you encounter another cultural paradigm (god thats a terrible word) you modify behavior to some extent in order to negotiate it. This is a fundamental social skill, you probably aren't even aware that you do it most of the time.

Just because one social paradigm is the hegemonic mainstream behavior mode doesn't mean that people occupying it aren't defining themselves by it.

 

[Style_Dota]

When did I say that other cultures and races don't act in a set social paradigm? Please stop reading what you want to read from my post myzozoa. Once again, I was talking about a single demographic.

Anyway, I see your point elcheeso, and I understand where the confusion came from. My point about the comparison was that in a group, the African American students at my school tended to talk louder and in a different way than when they were in a classroom or talking to other ethnic students, and believe me, I found it shocking since I don't believe in stereotyping. Of course, there were the "stereotypical" (ironic, but couldn't think of a better word) white upper class douchebags too who acted on their own set paradigm, but I didn't bother bringing that up since its off topic. The topic my friend and I were talking about was social paradigms as a whole, and we mainly touched base of African American culture at one point.

Anyway, I apologize for the apparent tone of my post, kind of hard to express thigs correctly on the Internet. However, I assure you that I wasn't referring to those negative things about African Americans. Sorry!

Edit: in answer to your first part, in all honesty, my claim that the essay wasn't racist was probably due to my selective reading of topics in the essay, which is completely my fault. That first sentence in my first post is probably why I came off the wrong way.

 

[tehy]

really? because I see white people acting in accordance with their cultural paradigm all the time, especially when they're interacting with people who share that paradigm. All humans act this way, it is a necessary social skill. When you encounter another cultural paradigm (god thats a terrible word) you modify behavior to some extent in order to negotiate it. This is a fundamental social skill, you probably aren't even aware that you do it most of the time.

Just because one social paradigm is the hegemonic mainstream behavior mode doesn't mean that people occupying it aren't defining themselves by it.

Just to clear this up, i'm pretty sure he means that non-american blacks don't act in the same way, not that non-american blacks don't follow social paradigms.

Honestly, i tend to agree with a bit of this stuff, although i highly doubt any of it has to do with genes concerning skin color or any of those traits.

 

[Aldaron]

Lol gimme a break capefeather -_- Why are you increasing this guy's exposure even minutely?

That "essay" is the most obvious example of someone with an agenda (and using a misguided fallacies like assuming anecdotal evidence extrapolates to generalities), namely trying to whine about a particular group of people, framing the "points" with stereotypes that are "backed" by hilariously unbelievable examples. A group of girls randomly gyrating in the front of the room (twerk twerk twerk miley) lmao? That type of "example" is the first kind that should have warned you all this moron was bsing through his butthairs.

Give me a break. This guy just took a bunch of stereotypes, made up stories to use as anecdotal evidence, and then tried to legitimize his "point" by pre-emptively attacking criticisms by automatically classifying them as weak minded standard references to racism.

This entire essay is just either an elaborate troll to rile people up (in which case, excellent job) or a hilariously poor attempt at proving a point.

Seriously. You people trying to say "he has a point" are making me lol. You've obviously never been involved in any scientific experiment, that you know, asks for repeatable (point is extendable to generalities) results and actual DATA and are probably the type of people that listen to a politician spout some talking points and buy into it 100%. If you're trying to say "his points apply to SOME blacks!!" then who gives a shit lol. This essay isn't saying anything then. Yes, congratulations, some minor % of a group tends to exemplify stereotypes...that is after all how stereotypes arise. Comon guys.

This "essay" (I hesitate to call it even that) does _nothing_ but spout statements, none of which are corroborated by...anything. Anyone can say "X group does this" by referring to a minority in X and then providing some Grade E movie anecdote to mask it in some facade of legitimacy.

Since you've read this "essay" once, now reread it, looking for REAL justification, not bsable anecdotes, and preferably reread it in the perspective of someone who would visit and participate in this forum: www.stormfront.org/ and tell me this dude's intentions aren't hilariously obvious (if not meant as a troll).

Btw, for the people who are claiming this isn't racist...try again lol. The very definition of racism is using non substantiable "evidence" that correlates only to a minority of a group to encourage any of attacks against, segregation, or avoidance of such group. This guy doesn't provide any evidence, uses anecdotes that would apply to a minority of the group, and asks whites to reconsider sending their children to black schools (segragation / avoidance).

So yea, "weak minds weak minds" lol

 

[Cresselia~~]

Well... pfffftt... what can I say?
I feel sorry for both parties, really.
I think both sides in the essay are tremendously hurt because they just can't tolerate each other.
But then you get a third problem in the essay called a "half breed" that probably gets attacked and insulted as much as homosexual Christians would do.

I think it's like a cultural shock in which the difficulty varies from person to person, and does not necessarily correlate with whether a person is nice or not, it's more associated with age.
But to blame every single student instead?

I do hear a lot of negative things about black schools from America, well, I've never been to America before.
But when I studied in the UK, the black people I have met there were nothing like that. (I've met African British, Caribbean British, people who are really from Nigeria, etc.)
So it could be due to whether the style of the education fits them as well, I suppose?


By the way, why is this called an "essay"? I don't think it is one.

 

[X5Dragon]

You people

Huh Aldaron?


My real nitpick from that "essay":

My students were sometimes unable to see the world except through the lens of their own blackness.

The hell is "blackness"? You can act a certain way because of the color of your skin. Seems to me if he were trying, trying to be objective he'd use something like "neglected and crime shocked African Americans living in the Rural South". Also lol at the example he uses to justify the term:

I had a class that was host to a German exchange student. One day he put on a Power Point presentation with famous German landmarks as well as his school and family.

From time to time during the presentation, blacks would scream, "Where da black folk?!" The exasperated German tried several times to explain that there were no black people where he lived in Germany. The students did not believe him. I told them Germany is in Europe, where white people are from, and Africa is where black people are from. They insisted that the German student was racist, and deliberately refused to associate with blacks.

So I guess from now on we can make fun of red necks who don't know where most of the world's countries are and can't point it on the map, while cursing you in a thick Murican accent and just blame it on "whiteness".

I'm all for looking objectively at the problems these people face in their daily lives, especially at school but this guy really sounds like he wanted to quote that IQ book and say it's not us it's them and their blackness and their African 60 IQ. Man's racist, end of discussion.