Your parents didn't remove your legs, your body and your penis work the exact same. I 'get' you don't like it, but in the grand scheme of things... It just seems rather futile to care so much. I just don't get it? and ya you're being kinda melodramatic and shouldn't base your self-worth on some skin.
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Serious Ethics of circumcision
- Thread starter Adamant Zoroark
- Start date
I was gonna stay out of this, but cookie provided an opportunity for me to chime in.
I'm not cut, but when I sometimes roll it back in the shower to get soap even under it, the shower water was PAINFUL there. Foreskin... water is not painful.
I'm not cut, but when I sometimes roll it back in the shower to get soap even under it, the shower water was PAINFUL there. Foreskin... water is not painful.
I was born with my foreskin folded onto my gland. My parents didn't want to do anything about as they knew it was mostly harmless and instead decided to wait until I was older so that I could decide. I decided to go through a process where a needle is inserted in between the gland and the foreskin to separate the two. the initial separation is not painful but for about two weeks afterwards due to how sensitive the skin is there is ridiculously intense pain (It's probably the most painful experience of my life and I've literally had my appendix explode). It was so bad that for the first two days afterwards I could not wear pants as they caused too much pain.
To think that parents put babies through a similar amount of pain to this is disgusting. I adamantly believe that if circumcision is made illegal until a child reaches adulthood no parent will ever circumcise again. People have no idea how painful that shit is. I still had it easy by comparison as my foreskin wasn't removed and I am very happy about still having it. Before circumcising your child please just imagine the pain they will be in.
To think that parents put babies through a similar amount of pain to this is disgusting. I adamantly believe that if circumcision is made illegal until a child reaches adulthood no parent will ever circumcise again. People have no idea how painful that shit is. I still had it easy by comparison as my foreskin wasn't removed and I am very happy about still having it. Before circumcising your child please just imagine the pain they will be in.
Personally, I'm glad this procedure was done to me as a child. Don't get me wrong, I love my personal freedom of choice as much as anyone else, but seeing as I'm pretty sure I'd have gotten an adult circumcision if I hadn't as a child, I am so thankful that's already over and done with. The clinic I looked at put the price of this at $2500, along with the recovery time, pain, sutures and all the lovely stuff that comes with it. I think I look better than if I were uncut, and from what I've heard about the increased sensitivity, it seems like more of a curse than a blessing. Maybe I'm missing out on something since I've never experienced it, but why would I want to be stimulated to the point of intense pain? I believe I've benefitted from my father's choice, and I'm glad it's not one I had to make for myself. I don't feel unwhole or any less of a man for having the procedure done. And most importantly, regardless of the fact that a choice was made about my body with no input or consent for myself, I trust that my parents had the best intentions for me, just like they did for every other choice they have ever made for me throughout childhood with no input or consent from myself, which was, well, pretty much everything up until my teens.
you can't say that circumcised penis is normal looking, neither can you say that about an actual normal one. If you've been looking at your dick for your entire life, which you have, I doubt anything else than what it is would look "normal" to you. Coming from Europe, I am not circumcised, and just like some bro from #taonu asked me "how do you pee with foreskin", I would ask "doesn't it stretch horribly when u get a boner". It's going to be a subjective matter respective to what you've had your whole life.
I doubt the pros and cons are enough to change anything, especially not the view on what is "normal" and what isn't, and the fact that you get used to it anyway means that in the end, you should probably just stick to what is normal to where your son is going to grow up (cut off in us, not cut off everywhere else).
I doubt the pros and cons are enough to change anything, especially not the view on what is "normal" and what isn't, and the fact that you get used to it anyway means that in the end, you should probably just stick to what is normal to where your son is going to grow up (cut off in us, not cut off everywhere else).
Yeah, I don't really see the point of this thread. This clearly isn't meant for debate; the OP is more venting about some personal vendetta than actually looking for clarification and opinions of dissent aren't even really looked at. I don't disagree - I wouldn't cut my kid and I'm not cut myself, nor is anyone in my family, but the fact is that this is more of an echo chamber more than a place where debate is actually wanted and fostered.
Plus, I'm sure you can come up with better arguments against than the OP. Docking? Really? Do you think that the people most likely to oppose you (conservative folks) would want to facilitate homosexual acts, particularly ones that look really... really... awkward? If anything, that would be a pro to circumcision for them.
Lugi I don't disagree, as I said above, but babies are waaaaay better at healing from things like this than adults or older kids; a big reason that this isn't really done to older people is because of that. Did you get anaesthesia? Depends on the method, but modern uses typically use some form of a numbing agent to greatly reduce the pain.
Plus, I'm sure you can come up with better arguments against than the OP. Docking? Really? Do you think that the people most likely to oppose you (conservative folks) would want to facilitate homosexual acts, particularly ones that look really... really... awkward? If anything, that would be a pro to circumcision for them.
Lugi I don't disagree, as I said above, but babies are waaaaay better at healing from things like this than adults or older kids; a big reason that this isn't really done to older people is because of that. Did you get anaesthesia? Depends on the method, but modern uses typically use some form of a numbing agent to greatly reduce the pain.
The initial procedure didn't hurt, what hurt was the following days afterward when I had ridiculously sensitive skin. There was nothing they could do about that. Also the reason it is done to babies is because a baby can't say "Please don't cut off my foreskin," not because they heal quicker. Even someone as young as 6 years old would react and you would be able to see their pain after the procedure. With babies that doesn't happen.
Okay so the time when I might have to make a decision is several years away but I'm jewish but pretty laid back about it and circumcised, whilst my girlfriend who I've been with for over 2 years now wants to avoid association with the religion or even the acknowledgement of its existence. Whilst I think mutually we've agreed not to have our children circumcised, I'm sure I and probably she would be keen to know the facts about it, what's the risks and the possible gains from keeping/losing your foreskin? This thread sort of answers it but not in a clear, precise, balanced manner. If someone could post a clear breakdown of it, and then secondarily the arguements additionally on the moral and philosophical or otherwise front, or procure a helpful link, that would be most gratifying.
ppl who think that a practice that has clear documented medical benefits should be outlawed during infancy because it "clearly" violates "first do not harm" (which it actually doesn't, please learn what things mean before u use them in ur post) or because you "cant give consent" (altho the same rings true for hundreds of things parents do with their children w/r/t medical care at young ages) are looking at it from a completely 1-dimensional perspective considering that circumcising during infancy is definitely the most pain-free way to circumcise and nips quite a few potential problems in the bud. if you really feel detached from your parents and suffer from "extreme anxiety and rage" because they did something relatively safe that also has legitimate health benefits to you when you were a baby then you have bigger problems than your foreskin.
edIT: my double post got deleted but comparing mastectomy to circumcision is a ridiculous argument
thats exactly why you do it to infants. while not technically pain-free, its the closest youll ever get to pain-free circumcision considering pretty much all ppl who had successful rics dont think about or even remember the pain they were in at all during that time period. its way more humane than you're making it out to be.
edIT: my double post got deleted but comparing mastectomy to circumcision is a ridiculous argument
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sources or gtfo - to my knowledge the only medical reason to circumcise is to ease phimosis, and even then there are less invasive treatments available
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/27/health/aap-circumcision-recommendation/
according to a cnn report, an american association of pediatrics study it "found links between circumcision and decreased risk of urinary tract infections, some kinds of cancer, HPV, HIV, and other sexually transmitted diseases," and that seems reliable enough to me.
according to a cnn report, an american association of pediatrics study it "found links between circumcision and decreased risk of urinary tract infections, some kinds of cancer, HPV, HIV, and other sexually transmitted diseases," and that seems reliable enough to me.
Ehh a news network tends to be inherently biased though, so what matters more is whether you can trust that association to produced the report.. still, A+ for effort
(sorry not to have a good response to all of this but) (fairly orthodox) jewish lobbying is a perfectly valid answer to that though
The effect has only been demonstrated in African countries with little to no hygiene. In the west, no such results have been shown, Jewish Conspiracy or no Jewish Conspiracy.
I'm cut because I got an infection when I was a kid.
I think the "documented medical benefits" is baloney in the US - very few people do it for that reason, and there are plenty of documented medical issues that it causes that would weigh against it. I'd put money on most people doing it because "it looks better that way" or "I want him to look like his daddy", and the only reason you think that in the US is because it's so common there, being cut is the norm. Thus why it's FAR, FAR more common in the US than anywhere else in the West.
(I've heard the argument that it's also because the healthcare industry in the USA is fucked, and doctors routinely push for patients to get unnecessary or even harmful medical procedures because they can bill more for them - caesarians are another example - but I'm not convinced that sufficient numbers of doctors are that unethical in the US).
In any case, I don't think a person's weird sexual fetish aesthetics are a good enough reason to engage in genital mutilation of children
I'm cut because I got an infection when I was a kid.
I think the "documented medical benefits" is baloney in the US - very few people do it for that reason, and there are plenty of documented medical issues that it causes that would weigh against it. I'd put money on most people doing it because "it looks better that way" or "I want him to look like his daddy", and the only reason you think that in the US is because it's so common there, being cut is the norm. Thus why it's FAR, FAR more common in the US than anywhere else in the West.
(I've heard the argument that it's also because the healthcare industry in the USA is fucked, and doctors routinely push for patients to get unnecessary or even harmful medical procedures because they can bill more for them - caesarians are another example - but I'm not convinced that sufficient numbers of doctors are that unethical in the US).
In any case, I don't think a person's weird sexual fetish aesthetics are a good enough reason to engage in genital mutilation of children
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dude you are like 16
also no foreskin = less pleasure in sex, so there's that. also, some of these posts kinda disgust me tbh.. im sorry but esp. moonbound and also hawkstar's (though i understand you can appreciate being circumcised (us culture prob) saying that circumcised penis looks normal and uncircumcised looks gross is.. ridiculous. also, you might appreciate the choice your father made, but what if you didn't? there's no way of getting your foreskin back on.
Bolded is... wrong, or inconclusive at best. I know it's a common stereotype, but this is something that is very commonly studied and the results have always come back either no difference, that circumsised men get slightly more sexual pleasure, or that uncircumsised men get slightly more sexual pleasure. All of the meta-analyses on the topic that I've seen have come back saying that there's no evidence of circumsision having any effect re: pleasure/ejaculation/other sex issues. Granted, this is on the topic of adult circumsision, but it's not like babies who got circumsised can tell you the difference between sex pre and post circumsision. I think there's something to be said about not performing (largely) cosmetic surgery on infants, but let's not pull shit out of our arses here. Off the top of my head, I believe there are a lower risk of complications when performing the surgery on babies, compared to older kids/adults. Also yeah, foreskin restoration is a thing, like hymen reconstruction.
There is literally not a single good reason to this shit to your infant before he can even decide if he wants to cut a piece of his dick off. As it's been said in the OP, the US is the only western country that keeps this practice for whatever bullshit reason. Maybe everyone else has a reason to not do it ?_?
I find it amazing how everyone gets shocked at the clitoral mutilation going on in some african cultures and then are completely ok with penis mutilation going on in their own families (if not even their own kids). Can't you see the double standard in there?
I know I'm coming off as angry in this post, but it's exactly because this DOES make me angry. You can't just go cutting off people's body parts like this. If it's so "benefical", then maybe you should let people get those benefits by their own free will, rather than doing so before they can have a say on it.
I find it amazing how everyone gets shocked at the clitoral mutilation going on in some african cultures and then are completely ok with penis mutilation going on in their own families (if not even their own kids). Can't you see the double standard in there?
I know I'm coming off as angry in this post, but it's exactly because this DOES make me angry. You can't just go cutting off people's body parts like this. If it's so "benefical", then maybe you should let people get those benefits by their own free will, rather than doing so before they can have a say on it.