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Evil means a Christian God cannot exist?

Negative numbers aren't impossible.

EDIT: Also, Einstein was a pantheist. His "God does not play dice with the universe" was a hyperbole he used to express his discontent with the Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics. He spent most of his life trying to disprove QM (and failing) despite getting his Nobel Prize for one of the experiments that led to it.
 
RaptorEngineer said:
This is way easier than we've been making it for two millenia.
If God really is God then you will never ever ever ever understand him.
Please focus your intellect and attention on something we can all grasp.
Like Pokemon. :)
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Nah people argue that as an excuse :P so that doesnt work anymore sorry
 
MrIndigo said:
Negative numbers aren't impossible.

EDIT: Also, Einstein was a pantheist. His "God does not play dice with the universe" was a hyperbole he used to express his discontent with the Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics. He spent most of his life trying to disprove QM (and failing) despite getting his Nobel Prize for one of the experiments that led to it.
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when are negative numbers possible in actual Quantity not theoretic numbers and calculations?
 
Debts are theory since we can never actually HAVE negative amounts.

One of the problems with negative numbers
is the fact that (-1)/1 = 1/(-1), and so we
have a situation in which the ratio of a smaller
number to a larger number is equal to the
ratio of the larger number to the smaller number.

Once you allow negative numbers, you no longer have that 'smaller' and
'lower' (and similarly 'larger' and 'higher') are synonyms; so the
stated equality is between the ratios of a lower number to a higher,
and a higher to a lower; but not of a smaller to a larger and a larger
to a smaller.

In short, -1 is the same size as 1.
 
just because something cannot be represented as a physical amount does not mean it is impossible or indescribable by mathematics. negative numbers as well as complex numbers are well defined and every bit as possible as whole numbers.
 
lol all im saying is that they cant be represented in physical amounts which you've just said it a number has no value until we assign one to it.
 
Measurements taken with respect to a reference and having a 'direction' can be negative. Altitude for example, or temperature on non-absolute scales. Potential energy is reckoned as negative also, with zero being the state of notionally infinite separation.

Negative resistance can exist in some situations on some electronic components.

Even complex numbers 'exist' in the context of electrical impedance.

Obviously, negative numbers cannot be counted. But physical reality goes beyond discrete counting.
 
I wouldn't call it an excuse.
More a dismissal.
If you really believe in God's omniwhatevers then you have to admit you'll never be able to come to any concrete conclusions about him.
And if you don't believe in him why do you give a shit?

So all arguments and theological discussions have to end the same way.
You're not God so you can't know.
Unless he's spoken to you directly you're following Him blindly.
I'm not saying that's an awful thing either.
Putting complete faith in something takes a lot of strength and courage.
Seeing eye dogs make great companions. ;)

Jokes aside, (please don't be mad at me for the comparison of God to a doG.) I feel like all religious debates end before they begin.
Either side is correct and incorrect.
 
onceXExile said:
Debts are theory since we can never actually HAVE negative amounts.

One of the problems with negative numbers
is the fact that (-1)/1 = 1/(-1), and so we
have a situation in which the ratio of a smaller
number to a larger number is equal to the
ratio of the larger number to the smaller number.

Once you allow negative numbers, you no longer have that 'smaller' and
'lower' (and similarly 'larger' and 'higher') are synonyms; so the
stated equality is between the ratios of a lower number to a higher,
and a higher to a lower; but not of a smaller to a larger and a larger
to a smaller.

In short, -1 is the same size as 1.
Click to expand...

This is true, but that doesn't make the negative numbers impossible.

In any case, negative numbers show direction of change from a starting point. To say they're impossible is to say that you can't have subtraction.
 
RaptorEngineer said:
I wouldn't call it an excuse.
More a dismissal.
If you really believe in God's omniwhatevers then you have to admit you'll never be able to come to any concrete conclusions about him.
And if you don't believe in him why do you give a shit?

So all arguments and theological discussions have to end the same way.
You're not God so you can't know.
Unless he's spoken to you directly you're following Him blindly.
I'm not saying that's an awful thing either.
Putting complete faith in something takes a lot of strength and courage.
Seeing eye dogs make great companions. ;)

Jokes aside, (please don't be mad at me for the comparison of God to a doG.) I feel like all religious debates end before they begin.
Either side is correct and incorrect.
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its true BUT athiest's WANT concrete conclusions thats the thing lol I believe in God but yeah i think Athiests arent satified with that answer
 
To me it's an attitude that seems like throwing one's hands in the air and giving up. It just doesn't seem helpful. And to adopt it means one will never find an answer even if there is one just waiting to be found. (I think the "best of all possible worlds" argument does resolve the issue provided one accepts limits of logic or stronger on God's omnipotence).

"If you really believe in God's omniwhatevers then you have to admit you'll never be able to come to any concrete conclusions about him." Then how can you hold any beliefs ABOUT God? If you consider him incomprehensible, how can you even believe he's benevolent?

"Putting complete faith in something takes a lot of strength and courage." Or a lot of weakness and cowardice. Weakness in that one does not examine one's faith, cowardice in that one does not face up to the apparent contradictions in one's beliefs. To be prepared to change one's position, and thus admit one was previously wrong, takes strength and courage. To even risk having to do that takes strength and courage.
 
MrIndigo you would bring up the one point I was afraid of. :)
And atheists don't DESIRE concrete conclusions.
My brother is a whateverwhatever (Idk what to call him.) because he doesn't give a damn about religion. Not because he needs to disprove something.

MrIndigo if you're referring to yourself I'd say no one can force anything upon you.
If you're referring to others then I'd say tough luck for those with weak wills? :/
 
onceXExile said:
if things can be colder than Zero.. doesnt it mean that what we think is zero isnt zero at all?
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Depends on the scale. Things cannot be colder than absolute zero, but can be lower than 0 degrees centigrade, a scale that was originally based on the freezing and boiling points of water (although it is now defined in relation to Kelvin).
 
right on , but if you can go lower than " nothing " i dont think it was nothing in the first place it obviously had something so that you can go lower

Note: i dont actually believe negative numbers are imposible but I like debating for some reason lol
 
cantab said:
To me it's an attitude that seems like throwing one's hands in the air and giving up. It just doesn't seem helpful. And to adopt it means one will never find an answer even if there is one just waiting to be found. (I think the "best of all possible worlds" argument does resolve the issue provided one accepts limits of logic or stronger on God's omnipotence).

"If you really believe in God's omniwhatevers then you have to admit you'll never be able to come to any concrete conclusions about him." Then how can you hold any beliefs ABOUT God? If you consider him incomprehensible, how can you even believe he's benevolent?

"Putting complete faith in something takes a lot of strength and courage." Or a lot of weakness and cowardice. Weakness in that one does not examine one's faith, cowardice in that one does not face up to the apparent contradictions in one's beliefs. To be prepared to change one's position, and thus admit one was previously wrong, takes strength and courage. To even risk having to do that takes strength and courage.
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One, I never claimed to believe anything about God.
I don't, really.
Except that if he really is divine he's incomprehensible to those who are not.

And two I agree you can just say 'Ohh man I'm frightened of Hell, God will save meh!' but I don't think of that as real faith.

Also it definitely is throwing my hands up in the air.
In the face of something 'Almighty' what would you do?
 
RaptorEngineer said:
If you're referring to others then I'd say tough luck for those with weak wills? :/
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What about thin wallets? Religious organisations get money from their followers, which they can use to lobby politicians. If the religious are the majority they could also use their voting influence to elect politicians that will support their views. Of course ANY group can do either of these things if they have the money or numbers. But that doesn't make it right.

And doesn't what you said go against what Jesus taught? Caring for people and such.

EDIT: Also, I don't see why God should ipso facto be incomprehensible. Surely he would be entirely capable of creating humans with the ability to understand him, or of acting in ways humans can understand.
 
Yes yes yes anyone can make that happen but my point is at the closest level to you, at your spirit, NO ONE can make you do anything.

Even if you say you believe in God and all that stuff you can rebel within yourself.
No one has (real) power over anyone else.


Argh, I don't care what Jesus taught.
I'm not a Christian. At ALL.

I'm just saying.
IF God Almighty is appropriately named.

IF.

Then discussions such as these are just....fruitless.

Edit: I said fruitless not pointless. I too enjoy the stimulation.
 
RaptorEngineer said:
And if you don't believe in him why do you give a shit?
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I dunno, maybe because,
-The Crusades (Justified it) (Oh, and you get a place in heaven too!)
-The Spanish Inquisition
-Witch Burnings (The devil is with her! Burn her!)
-Suicide Bombings (Kill the infidel!)
-Jihads (Because sometimes the infidel needs to be killed in masses.)
-Foot binging (Confucianism) and Patriarchy in general (Most religions reinforce it.)
-The Cast System (In India it justified (justifies) it, not to mention most of the world at almost any point in history)
-Slavery (Justified it: "Oh, um, well, its a process in their conversion! Yeah...")
-And to an extent The Holocaust ("Gott mit uns!" {God is with us!} Printed on Nazi belts, not to mention Hitler's "divine inspiration")
 
I personally find these discussions and logical discussions in general intellectually stimulating, so they aren't pointless
 
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