[Expert] This Is How We Mafia - Game Overrrrr - Postgame up!

[Blue_Tornado]

Also, my claim should be in somebody's mafia someday........

Nah. It was a terrible role to ever consider putting in a village - unless you're about to die fsr lategame (and by that time such a weak role would probably not get killed...) and "get the lynch off" before dying. Any other scenario it's just a terrible role, as it can get hooked and likely won't see use unless you're so certain on a lynch vote you are fine with announcing it a night early. Really, it only made us suspect you because we doubted Mekkah would put something as terrible as this (MAYBE if you weren't able to 'choose' whether you use it or not - if it was a must-use role, it would have been a hindering role, like lw's, and that would have made sense) and there was actually motive for mafia to fake something like this - knowing the lynch target a night early. I really wished zorbees didn't inspect you the night before you were lynched (as in, he should have been inspecting someone like rbg, like pb wanted...), as literally everyone thought you were mafia, even agape (before his death). :/

Now for stuff.

Terrible luck with losses (rands) and # of kills that successfully killed villagers (we were going 8/8, I mean, jeez), terrible circumstances that ended up making crux the most trust-able villager after yeti lategame, the only lucky thing we had was the track on ipl really.

I had backup plans for when I was away, one of them was the paperblade and little bird quicktopic that ended up being redundant. Other than that, simple planning all game.

I was really angry at how coincidentially good agape's move (pubclaiming) was. He had given JUST enough info that doesn't contradict anything pb/zorbees knew while looking credible with the info he had. I never told him -anything at all-, the only one that knew this was shade but that was only because we had some smalltalk, something I barely had with zorbees. So, yeah, that was unfortunate.

Things that should have been done lategame: yeti's sudden death should have brought up questions, as well as how agape claimed crux to be on "my suspect list" - this is interesting if I had given him one, and interesting if I had not. Also, the fact RBG, a probable pr was "he might be scum"-lynched instead of practically any other living role in the game was stupid as fuck and I don't know why no one said anything :l I realize some of this is hard to pick up on while alive but, then again, it's definitely not impossible, and people were just not active/involved enough to care, so that happened.

Something I would have done was, for starters, put AT LEAST two other players on the sheet at all times. No one was thinking there'd really be a wolf lategame, so there was only the one (r) remaining. Which means, if you have yourself and two other people running the village at all times, at least one of them -isn't- bad. Also, I really don't like how Crux ended up being most trusted out of nowhere - we had "cleaned" both ditto and gk through pb's track. I mean, sure, gk's role wasn't excatly a believable role, but ditto's was definitely something I had pictured mekkah putting in his game, and I was really sad seeing him not get involved. This goes for rbg too, taking into consideration what I said about zorbees' inspect earlier - had we cleaned him, things would have gone so well... :l

Uhhhh I guess there's still the bullcrap story that went on d1; zorbees made me think it was his result that was scummy, as in, scummy flavor, when it was just the result as a whole (as in, the role he thought lw had, according to the result) that was scummy. So things became a mess and I'm really not happy with that.

Nothing that exciting happened but it was enjoyable nonetheless. There are things I could have done better (and mistakes I was smart enough to -not- go with) but overall I think I played well! I might be missing some things but for now, have this post.

secretly following my own post restriction still

 

[jumpluff]

Nah. It was a terrible role to ever consider putting in a village

It's obviously supposed to be a terrible role; Mekkah told us the village was turbo weak. Are you still post restric- oh you mentioned that at the end. Not every role in a village is strong, some are just funny filler. Of course, you get broken filler roles too (HINT ZORBEES HINT)...

Terrible luck with losses (rands) and # of kills that successfully killed villagers (we were going 8/8, I mean, jeez),

We weren't the ones that wanted to kill Wild Eep! Anyway, since C++ were so kind as to handicap themselves and not kill or hook zorbees and Paperblade, you should be more grateful. ('But I have given my word not to lay a finger, or a hook, on Peter Pan...')

Things that should have been done lategame: yeti's sudden death should have brought up questions

Not too sure about that. Obviously Yeti and then LightWolf dying while Crux stayed alive was a giant red flag, but we couldn't help that. If anything you could see a pattern in those kills and the type of player they went after.

as well as how agape claimed crux to be on "my suspect list" - this is interesting if I had given him one, and interesting if I had not.

Except Agape was dismissed as mafia, so it was easy to assume he was lying about everything to pull the mislynch off (C++ needed mislynches to win too).

Also, the fact RBG, a probable pr was "he might be scum"-lynched instead of practically any other living role in the game was stupid as fuck and I don't know why no one said anything :l

Because they didn't have the sheet and because RBG's role was (probably deliberately on Mekkah's part, since, you know, it's very powerful when it gets unrestricted...) super sketchy? Other than not having the kills to spare, we left him alive expecting you guys would mislynch him too. Nobody else wanted to be lynched, and Ditto's role was sketchy as well. And if you think nobody would ever claim shit like that, hello, Olie the (BAN ME PLEASE). That was in an anonymous mafia, but it shows people will claim obviously stupid stuff and take refuge in audacity.

I mean, sure, gk's role wasn't excatly a believable role,

Actually, it was the most believable of them left. gk's trick with hiding the Fire was pretty smart but if he had owned up to having it, nobody would ever have been able to doubt he was clean, since the Club and Dinosaur were revealed. And that's why gk was on the sheet.

This goes for rbg too, taking into consideration what I said about zorbees' inspect earlier - had we cleaned him, things would have gone so well... :l

And you might well have mislynched instead that day, in which case the end result would be almost the, if not completely the, same...

Analysing the inspector's and B_T's actions earlygame was some of the most fun I had this game.

Either way, the end of this game is just classically what happens to 2v1 villages because of the all-too-necessary leader system... uninvolved villagers get left at the end and picked off one-by-one. The difference here is that Crux managed to get trust later rather than sooner.

 

[Crux]

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that I lynched pluff. To a villager without the sheet that pretty much cleans me. "why would an (r) lynch the second last (r) that late in the game."

RBG looked super suspicious, that is why the lynch worked and noone suspected me subsequently. Additionally, the Yeti and LW kills are also justifiable in the minds of a villager without the sheet. "worked out yeti was or important (or randed) and also LW is stupidly suspicious and good too so we should kill him etc..."

You can say all that stuff as you had Mekkah's sheet, they did not hindsight is 20/20. Also you were dead. If you hadnt died you might have won the game as you are clearly the best player in this game but you died so the village loss is entirely your fault.

Also you were a huge bitch when you decided you wanted to lead btw dont do that.

Oh also I did give LightWolf sheet access, so I looked like a good little village leader!

 

[Altair]

The whole day/night cycle before I died was hilarious, it was just me and agape barely missing each other due to timezones. In fact, I don't think we had been on at the same time since day 3! But yeah I probably should've been far more clear to Agape to kill zorbees immediately after we inspected him, as well as being there later to get him to not make himself a target. The whole "kill wildeep>>>shade" thing was because we didn't think the village under bt was that organized, and iirc I misunderstood my night ability and thought we were hooking one of them that night. Definitely a mistake on my part.

I love Altair he’s cute.

<3

 

[jumpluff]

In all fairness, your role is a little confusing at first glance. I had to read it closely a few more times to understand it :p

 

[Ditto]

Something I would have done was, for starters, put AT LEAST two other players on the sheet at all times. No one was thinking there'd really be a wolf lategame, so there was only the one (r) remaining. Which means, if you have yourself and two other people running the village at all times, at least one of them -isn't- bad. Also, I really don't like how Crux ended up being most trusted out of nowhere - we had "cleaned" both ditto and gk through pb's track. I mean, sure, gk's role wasn't excatly a believable role, but ditto's was definitely something I had pictured mekkah putting in his game, and I was really sad seeing him not get involved. This goes for rbg too, taking into consideration what I said about zorbees' inspect earlier - had we cleaned him, things would have gone so well... :l

I didn't think you'd trust me, so I didn't try and talk to anyone or do anything.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Hide

It's obviously supposed to be a terrible role; Mekkah told us the village was turbo weak. Are you still post restric- oh you mentioned that at the end. Not every role in a village is strong, some are just funny filler. Of course, you get broken filler roles too (HINT ZORBEES HINT)...

There's a difference between "turbo weak" and "not worth using at all". In your case, your role was better off not being used, and then there's no point in putting it in the game, which is why it was fishy.

We weren't the ones that wanted to kill Wild Eep! Anyway, since C++ were so kind as to handicap themselves and not kill or hook zorbees and Paperblade, you should be more grateful. ('But I have given my word not to lay a finger, or a hook, on Peter Pan...')

All the kills going through and the rands early on were a result of luck. (the "non-rands" were influenced by lucky inspections, anyway). The C++'s decision was not based on luck - they chose not to kill the right guys. I should thank them for being dumb, definitely, but this has nothing to do with how lucky we were.

Not too sure about that. Obviously Yeti and then LightWolf dying while Crux stayed alive was a giant red flag, but we couldn't help that. If anything you could see a pattern in those kills and the type of player they went after.

Actuallly... you guys had a bad habit of randing the most vocal villager for the majority of the game. Crux was the vocal villager. Yeti was the polar opposite - she concealed herself well and looked inactive. By killing Yeti, you proved that you guys didn't rand, because you would kill Crux or LW otherwise. Which means one of two things: you inspected her, or you got it from another source. Your inspector died D3, and had he inspected her before his death, Yeti would have been dead by that time. The only option for "another source" is "spreadsheet". The only one with sheet access aside from Yeti was Crux.

Except Agape was dismissed as mafia, so it was easy to assume he was lying about everything to pull the mislynch off (C++ needed mislynches to win too).

No, he wouldn't force a mislynch because it's not the last cycle and he's the last of his team. Plus, he was legitimately looking to kill (r)s.

Because they didn't have the sheet and because RBG's role was (probably deliberately on Mekkah's part, since, you know, it's very powerful when it gets unrestricted...) super sketchy? Other than not having the kills to spare, we left him alive expecting you guys would mislynch him too. Nobody else wanted to be lynched, and Ditto's role was sketchy as well. And if you think nobody would ever claim shit like that, hello, Olie the (BAN ME PLEASE). That was in an anonymous mafia, but it shows people will claim obviously stupid stuff and take refuge in audacity.

Crux had "a list of suspects", as in, he had more than just RBG. You said it yourself - Ditto's role was scummy as well, and they would be best off "testing" RBG's role for the longest time possible. Aka, they'd lynch other suspected peeps before finally lynching him.

Actually, it was the most believable of them left. gk's trick with hiding the Fire was pretty smart but if he had owned up to having it, nobody would ever have been able to doubt he was clean, since the Club and Dinosaur were revealed. And that's why gk was on the sheet.

Untrue. He was inactive, was playing sketchy and the role could have been easily faked.

And you might well have mislynched instead that day, in which case the end result would be almost the, if not completely the, same...

It would mean that RBG survives the day. Unless you guys would kill him anyhow, yes, I guess this could not have made a difference in a few scenarios.

Analysing the inspector's and B_T's actions earlygame was some of the most fun I had this game.

:?

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that I lynched pluff. To a villager without the sheet that pretty much cleans me. "why would an (r) lynch the second last (r) that late in the game."

Remember what I said about "everyone thought pluff was scum?" Plus, she was CONFIRMED scum thanks to zorbees' inspect. You practically had to lynch her, no matter if you wanted to or not.

RBG looked super suspicious, that is why the lynch worked and noone suspected me subsequently. Additionally, the Yeti and LW kills are also justifiable in the minds of a villager without the sheet. "worked out yeti was or important (or randed) and also LW is stupidly suspicious and good too so we should kill him etc..."

Considering how there were plenty of ?_? villagers that could have been power roles, not just Yeti, I find that 'worked it out' theory hard to believe without having some in on the village's info. LW's kill was fine.

You can say all that stuff as you had Mekkah's sheet, they did not hindsight is 20/20. Also you were dead. If you hadnt died you might have won the game as you are clearly the best player in this game but you died so the village loss is entirely your fault.

I don't remember blatantly blaming anyone for the loss. I just noted some things that could have been done. And I realize that my view was a lot different at the time compared to the villagers', but these are still logical things to pick up on mid-game.

Also you were a huge bitch when you decided you wanted to lead btw dont do that.

I don't remember deciding something like this. I could have been a simple diversional mouthpiece all game (or die early as intended) but I got "village leader" role slapped on me somewhere in the middle of it all. My bad?

Oh also I did give LightWolf sheet access, so I looked like a good little village leader!

Have a medal.

 

[jumpluff]

There's a difference between "turbo weak" and "not worth using at all". In your case, your role was better off not being used, and then there's no point in putting it in the game, which is why it was fishy.

IDK where you got the idea from that I need it explained to me why it was fishy.

All the kills going through and the rands early on were a result of luck. (the "non-rands" were influenced by lucky inspections, anyway). The C++'s decision was not based on luck - they chose not to kill the right guys. I should thank them for being dumb, definitely, but this has nothing to do with how lucky we were.

You keep telling me things I already know. I said clearly they chose not to kill zorbees and Paperblade, which was actually just a mistake that Altair has already explained. The odds were we should have hit more useless people, sure, but it would be equally as bad if we never struck gold with our targets. We never random.org'd a single target (actually, someone else might've, but any target I picked or discussed with somebody, which ended up being most of our targets, including earlygame). Lucky for our hunches to be right? Sure. We weren't stabbing in the dark though, so you can expect at least a few decent roles to die.

Actuallly... you guys had a bad habit of randing the most vocal villager for the majority of the game. Crux was the vocal villager. Yeti was the polar opposite - she concealed herself well and looked inactive. By killing Yeti, you proved that you guys didn't rand, because you would kill Crux or LW otherwise. Which means one of two things: you inspected her, or you got it from another source. Your inspector died D3, and had he inspected her before his death, Yeti would have been dead by that time. The only option for "another source" is "spreadsheet". The only one with sheet access aside from Yeti was Crux.

I wouldn't call it a bad habit, since the strategy paid off. I already acknowledged that by rights if Crux were clean he would've died unless we had decided to abandon our strategy (since we were mostly hitting bad roles with it, which we accepted by pursuing the strategy, so it would actually make sense for us to stop and go after the silent types... I might add that we were considering targeting Yeti all game because she was quiet, although obviously the village had no means of knowing that), but what can we do? Again, you have the gift of hindsight because you had the sheet, deadtalk info, and actually cared. The others probably cared but did not have any information like you. And it's a giant fucking step to say 'no, this apparently cleaned person is bad, even though I can't prove it, but I'm going to try to turn this around anyway'.

No, he wouldn't force a mislynch because it's not the last cycle and he's the last of his team. Plus, he was legitimately looking to kill (r)s.

We knew he was looking to kill (R)s. When Agape posted I did all the numbers and the only way they could win was killing us and getting mislynched. He could pass the mislynch off on ipl being ipl (indeed, when we didn't know Agape wasn't cleaned properly, we thought it was out of spite, since logically the mislynch should be at the end). You have a bad habit of assuming perfect play from everyone, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Crux had "a list of suspects", as in, he had more than just RBG. You said it yourself - Ditto's role was scummy as well, and they would be best off "testing" RBG's role for the longest time possible. Aka, they'd lynch other suspected peeps before finally lynching him.

Theoretically, if he thought RBG was way more obviously mafia than Ditto, he could go for less risk of game over by lynching highest priority first.

I think he actually discussed the lynch with Yeti before she died, although I genuinely have no idea what her thoughts were.

Untrue. He was inactive, was playing sketchy and the role could have been easily faked.

Who had the sheet? Crux. Who knew gk was inactive? Crux (if anybody), dead people, and gk, I suppose, who obviously wasn't going to talk about it. I didn't even have a clue and I had access to everything Crux knew. The role isn't that easy to fake if you pile targets upon him, which I could see from the sheet you did. I'm not sure how you expected Pidge and Ditto to pull that knowledge out of thin air.

It would mean that RBG survives the day. Unless you guys would kill him anyhow, yes, I guess this could not have made a difference in a few scenarios.

Actually I'm so confused about this now because I don't feel like retracing the conversation.

:?

I was talking with billymills a bit before he died, and we were really perplexed as to what was going on, why the inspector thought zorbees was bad, etc. Both of us thought you had a good chance of actually being the inspector.

I'm not claiming Crux's act was bulletproof, but I think you are being both hard on him and the villagers without the sheet.

gg anyway!

 

[Blue_Tornado]

I might have been lazy. And might have not thought ahead. Sorry!

 

[jumpluff]

It's all good, I solved it

 

[Blue_Tornado]

I'm usually this critical post-game, so if some of it translated to being hard on players, then it shouldn't! You're right in that I'm assuminmg perfect play in these scenarios - that's because these are only scenarios that could have happened, rather than what I think was likely/rational to happen. Crux did well with post-game cleaning and the lategame villagers weren't expected to go to extremes (being active was enough!).

 

[jumpluff]

Oh, well, I actually almost never play games with you, so I thought this was out of the ordinary :p I apologise for taking your comments in a way they weren't intended!

And I don't mind discussing perfect mafia ideal world theorymafia, it's just that it never turns out that way as you know so I can't help but be defensive about it x)

 

[Ampharos]

Jumpluff your new sig contradicts that post.

 

[Yeti]

I noticed Crux changed my hook target from Pidge the night I died to himself, for when he added someone else to the sheet. What a scum!!

If I had lived and cleaned Pidge I'm not quite sure who I would have lynched - Ditto, GK and RBG all had elements of being clean but by the time peoples' thoughts on them got to me it was sounding like Crux was to be most trusted. I definitely should have added someone else besides him, or realized sooner how convenient BPV was as a cover for the maf BG (who can self-protect I guess, as SANDS veterans know I never let people self-protect unless they're wolf so I was thinking it must have been like the other maf's and he could pick himself?? idk).

I probably would have gone for LW?? Maybe? If only because by that point nobody else would have been proven CLEAN or have some semblance of likely to be clean, RBG would have been my next lynch target.

Anyway sorry again village for not realizing Crux was actually the most likely to be the final maf before I checked the thread and saw I died. Def should have added someone else to the spread. zorbees' sort of last hints to me were he thought Crux and Pidge were v likely to be clean and would've inspected RBG but was considering Ditto for it. I thought Pidge's flavor was very suspicious, like a mafia could claim that to avoid being inspected/hooked or something.

Unfortunately the last few villagers were just following Crux and nobody exactly fought back against things.. should've added another to the spread honestly but the remaining ones not only had minimal roles but by that point were well aware they had not a whole lot to do and I guess disinterest abounded.

I should have just trusted the few results we had to indicate Ditto, RBG and GK were clean instead of being so suspicious of things but then again, not thinking further about Crux's "BPV" got him onto the spread so.. derp