Gen 8 Fatty Bird Spam SS OU! (please help)

[Tungdil]

I start by saying there is another Bird Spam team in this gen. However, what I'm trying here is quite different, and I'd love to hear from the community. Here is the team , and here are the sets:

Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

This is the first Defensive Tank of the team. I'm not running Brave Bird because there are other users on the team, so I'm not sure if Iron Head or Body Press is the best option. Iron Head hits Fairy-types while Body Press hits Steel-types. Maybe I could use both and remove U-turn, but I'm not sure either, because this way would lose a lot of momentum. is a big threat in general, and I'm aware that Body Press is by far the best way to deal with it [1][2]. This is the main Deffoger by the way, the other being .

Zapdos-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Stomping Tantrum

This is my speed control. :Zapdos-G: naturally hits hard, and because of this I think it's the perfect Choice Scarf for the team. All the moves are classical, but I'm running Stomping Tantrum to hit [3] without the recoil of Brave Bird. The lack of power by using Choice Scarf instead of Choice Band is obviously tough. Nevertheless, I still believe that speed control is crucial for the team to work.

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Defog

This is my second Defogger. I'm using a physical set because I don't think Hurricane is reliable, but I'm not sure if this is the best option. On the other hand, this is Specially Defensive to tank neutral hits from threats like , but also pressure and , both taking good damage from Brave Bird. However, the main SpDef tank is , so 's main role are helping to clean hazards and to tank special hits.

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Clear Smog
- Recover

This is a check against Fire-types such as , because I'm running two Steel-types. Interestingly, the majority of Fire-types in the meta are special attackers, so a SpDef set fits quite well. The moves are all standard, and I think Clear Smog is very important to reset buffs, sometimes even from Physical attackers such as , which can't OHKO with full life [4]. One additional bonus: Gastrodon is Ground-type, so it can check Electric-types.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
- Power Whip

The second Physical tank of the team, that also resists Electric-type moves. The moves are standard, but the EVs I'm not sure if PhysDef is the best option, as already fills this role. An alternative is to use SpeDef with PhyDef , but in my opinion can't handle very well the Physical attackers of the meta, such as . Despite that, I'm still considering a SpeDef .

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Iron Tail
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Someone in the team needs to attack, right? The task is for , which is a Physical attacker that can sometimes surprise the opponent and get an early kill. The moves are STAB Crunch, Iron Tail to hit Fairy-types, Earthquake to hit neutral targets that resist the other two moves, but also to hit Steel-types that Hydreigon has difficulty passing through. One Dragon Dance is enough to give 486 speed, which is faster than a non-Choice Scarf Dragapult, which has 421 speed.

Calcs

[1] 252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 472-556 (167.9 - 197.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
[2] 0 Atk Corviknight Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 218-260 (77.5 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
[3] 252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 86-102 (28.2 - 33.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
[4] +1 252 Atk Dragonite Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gastrodon: 272-324 (63.8 - 76%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Replays

The first replay depicts the fragility of the team to Electric and Fire-types. However, I was able to circumvent these weaknesses.
The second replay illustrates the general usefulness of the core Gastrodon+Ferrothorn to the team against Electric-types.
The third and fourth replays show the nice performance of Choice Scarf Zapdos-G.

Importable

https://pokepast.es/ffbac2346ac35177

 

[awyp]

Hey there Tungdil

Very cool team, I've always been a fan of bird teams because entry hazards (specifically Spikes or Toxic Spikes) can be annoying and with the introduction to Heavy-Duty Boots these teams have been very viable.

Threats: From just looking at this team I see a major weakness to Swords Dance Life Orb Weavile, it has the potential to OHKO your current Ferrothorn set, and after some entry hazard damage / chip damage it would probably be an OHKO after 1 Swords Dance. When you look at Corviknight, it will OHKO for sure after Stealth Rocks after one Swords Dance. I understand Rocky Helmet and all but Weavile will still have about 40% health (From full health) which will allow it to still demolish most of the team. Both Ferrothorn and Corviknight would have to be healthy in order for Weavile not to go on full rampage, which could be hard to maintain as walls.

Below are some of the calculations:

Weavile Life Orb +2 to Corviknight Calc

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 366-438 (91.5 - 109.5%) -- approx. 68.8% chance to OHKO

Weavile Life Orb +2 to Ferrothorn Calc

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 315-375 (89.4 - 106.5%) -- approx. 18.8% chance to OHKO

Suggestions:
Corviknight has a great role on this team being a good physical wall as well as defogging / pivoting so I think it would be ideal to keep. I would recommend to change Corviknights set, you don't have to go with Brave Bird but Body Press > Iron Head would be the better option. The reason is Body Press can hit steel types like Melmetal which currently with Corviknight you cannot do much to (Especially if it's a T-Wave / Protective Pads variant).

For Zapdos-Galar I would recommend if you plan on staying with the Choice Scarf set to think about going with Thunderous Kick over Stomping Tantrum since it won't do that much damage (to something like Toxapex) because you're scarfed / not stabbed. Thunderous Kick is a great move because you get 100% chance of a defense drop after one hit which can be utilized greatly in terms of staying in and going for more drops or switching out and forcing your opponent to be in a hasty situation.

I don't think you need a second defogger on the team and even if you did, I don't think Moltres is a great choice on this team. Just the combo having having special defensive EVs as well as running Flare Blitz seems counterintuitive. My recommendation would be to cover Weavile as well as have a 2nd defogger like you wanted. I recommend Tapu Fini over Moltres, Tapu Fini provides solid bulk and I would go with the Choice Scarf variant so you can Trick some walls and also to outspeed a majority of the metagame. Also you seem to be lacking on the special attacking end which could be important in terms of breaking through certain teams. This is the set I recommend:

Tapu Fini (Choice Scarf) set

Tapu Fini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 212 HP / 80 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Trick
- Defog

You seem to be missing Stealth Rock here which will always be a priority over Spikes regardless of team build since it affects Grounded and Non-Grounded Pokémons. For Ferrothorn I recommend going Stealth Rocks > Spikes and if you feel like you need Spikes, ditch Leech Seed. I would say go for Body Press > Power Whip to hit Steel types switching in on you as well to hit other Ferrothorns which you can't do with this current build.

Lastly with Hydreigon I would recommend to go with Scale Shot over Iron Tail so you can go for the potential speed boost as well as having a solid STAB move to choose from.

Aside from that, great team and I hope some of my suggestions are helpful.

 

[Tungdil]

Hey AndViet, fellow football fan. Thank you very much for your suggestions!! Weavile has proven to be a pain in my tests, even Choice Band. I also struggle with Kartana, so Body Press is the perfect move. I agree 100% with the suggestions for Ferrothorn, mainly the sentence

"Stealth Rock [...] will always be a priority over Spikes regardless of team build".

Concerning the suggestion to add Tapu-Fini, I'll test it, thanks! And also test Thunderous Kick on Zapdos-G, and Scale Shot on Hydreigon. My only concern is that Hydreigon will not be able to touch Fairy-types, as I did in this replay, but a speed boost is always a good thing, so I'll surely test too!

Thank you very much again.

 

[awyp]

Hey AndViet, fellow football fan. Thank you very much for your suggestions!! Weavile has proven to be a pain in my tests, even Choice Band. I also struggle with Kartana, so Body Press is the perfect move. I agree 100% with the suggestions for Ferrothorn, mainly the sentence

Concerning the suggestion to add Tapu-Fini, I'll test it, thanks! And also test Thunderous Kick on Zapdos-G, and Scale Shot on Hydreigon. My only concern is that Hydreigon will not be able to touch Fairy-types, as I did in this replay, but a speed boost is always a good thing, so I'll surely test too!

Thank you very much again.

I appreciate you my fellow football fan!

I do believe the only fairy-type you have to worry about from the OU tier would be Clefable. Both Tapu Lele and Fini can get chipped down by most moves on the team. When it comes to Clefable, you can Trick it using Tapu Fini and you can also give Tapu Fini Taunt (To stop it from recovering) > Defog since you already have a defogger. I would say that's the route I would go instead of going with Iron Tail since it's inaccurate and outside of fairies I feel like there's better moves to choose from. Gyro Ball on Ferrothorn could also be an option over Spikes and Leech Seed.

 

[Slowpoke Fan]

Bird spam is always an interesting concept as the type is incredibly strong and there is a variety of different birds to choose from. Let me know if these suggested changes are useful or not

Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/205ee5ee2badad03

Changed the fire turkey into a defensive set that checks grasses with its typing and fire STAB, Heatran with scorching sands and annoys its switch-ins with toxic. Mystical fire is great for annoying slow setup sweepers while wearing them down with toxic, e.g. unaware Clefable on stall.

While choice scarf Gapdos is good speed control, a choice band set is extremely powerful and IMO should be used on a bird spam team to highlight the power of flying types.

Just the standard defog set with body press as awyp noted.

While the sea slug is a fan favourite and an excellent Pokemon in its own right, Landorus-Therian provides hazard setting and pivoting for this team in one slot and should be your ground type of choice here.

Just changed the spread to SPD so it can soak up more moonblasts and psychics.

Speaking of moonblast and psychic, the Alolan psychic brings speed control to this team with choice scarf while supporting Gapdos with future sight.