Fine Tuning...

Howler

Hey guys! Long time lurker, first time poster. Although i'm a new member, i learned everything i know about battling from all the threads in this place. I feel that i'm not a bad battler, but far from great.

My biggest problem is my teams. I build a team, it fails, i move on. Well, this isn't good. So i thought hard and long until i found a team that wasn't completely horrible. Then, i took it out and tweaked it, hammering out all of the big flaws, until i was left with a decent base.

Then on, i swapped and changed pokemon, until i eventually ended up with this, a team in need of some fine tuning...

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My team at a glance!

gyara.png
BulkyGyara
rai.png
CM Raikou
Luc.png
PhysiLuc
zap.png
SpecsDos
Pert.png
Stealth Roar
drag.png
CBNite​

Immediately, one may notice that i only have one wall on this team. And that may seem a problem. But usually not.

It's a BulkyGyara lead. The standard. Taunt a pesky steel or waterfall an Aerodactyl, and hope to god he doesn't have Stone Edge. Azelf, usually, i'll hit him with waterfall, or switch out. Depends whether i'm feeling lucky or not.

Raikou. Ahh. People often underestimate the rascal. He and Electivire i leave 'til last. I usually bring him in to own a pesky flygon, or (non ST) blissey. I pack on the Speed and watch as he blitzes through the late game, finishing off anything but tyarnitar.

People look down their noses at electivre. I use him for a few reasons. He's one of the best late game sweepers, scoring a SE hit on 14/17 types. He outspeeds and OHKOs a lot of things, and he owns non offensive zapdos. He also provides a major electric weakness in my team. My lead... My wall... My sweepers who take it neutral. He has massive problems with swampert.

Now, i have zappy to counter the swampert. If i have to bring Vire out in the early game, i'll switch out of an EQ into Specs Zappy, who runs HP grass for this very reason. I did have T-Wave cress in his place, for the same reason, although i like the punch that zappy packs.

CM Shuffle Suicune, without Stealth Rock? He's crazy! Well, no. I just don't like having Salamence set up on me with nothing to do but sit there and thrash at him while he laughs. Ha. Ha. Suicune used Roar!

CB Nite. Awh. I love this big guy. He lives in ol' mence's shadow, which is great, because people don't know what to expect. So when he goes on a bender, watch out! I bring him out early game, and suicide him with Outrage usually. It makes a big hole in everything, and it allows me to see what they have to counter... what i have to use to zap(dos) them.

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Now Then....


gyara.png

Lil' G (Gyarados) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 156 HP/108 Atk/100 Def/144 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall
- Taunt
- Dragon Dance

First off, i wanted funky names. I'm sick of not knowing which pokemon are mine. Makes 'em seem a lil' bit gangsta, too.
Righteo, you guys know the drill.
He's a great lead, annoying the hell outta the slower leads, and trashing the fast, weaker ones. If i meet gengar, i use him as my sleep absorber/status bitch, as he doesn't usually do anything later than the start of the match. He's a great lead, it's what he does. I have better guys to thrash the enemy late game. Like i said, i use him to see what they've got. He's pretty useful at forcing switches too. Walls don't like taunt. lolz...


rai.png

R Dawg (Raikou) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

I max speed. Always. He's nowhere near as bulky as usual, but i like it. It makes sure i outspeed starmie and KO every time. As well as mirror matches, and most weavile (adamant) and sceptile (modest/adamant).
Usually, i bring him in after a KO to annoy blissey. I hate the bitch, so i love this guy. He makes mince meat of anything 'cept ST bliss. He also makes a nice late game sweeper, with a good Sp.att and GREAT speed.


Luc.png

L Nid (Lucario) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Ice Punch
- Blaze Kick

The idea here is to maximise coverage. Close Combat is an obvious choice and puts a dent in most things, hurting rocks and steels, as well as darks. Extremespeed is the reason to choice lucario, bringing much needed priority to my team, allowing me to finish off things wounded by my comrades. Ice Punch hurts those dragons and blaze kick covers jirachi, celebi, other pesky grasses and those nasty steels that laugh. Namely scizor. Hate that guy.


zap.png

Z Kan (Zapdos) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Thunderbolt
- Extrasensory

Okay. I like SpecsDos. He hits hard, and fast, off a 328 speed stat. Usually enough to outspeed all the other base 100s. I found that Machamp, and Infernape were troubling my team a little, which is why i opted for Extrasensory, just to make them think twice about switching in. Heatwave is to deal with the steals that hinder Dragonite, as well as raping Scizor, which was also tearing my team apart. Hidden Power grass counters bulky waters, weak tyranitars and swampert. Thunderbolt is obvious, hitting everything hard.

Pert.png

Swam Chu (Swampert) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Avalanche
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock

Okay, adding this guy in place of suicune, on recommendation. And by doing so, i halved the chance of switching vire into an electric attack. So i can ditch him now. This is my main dragon, scizor and tyranitar counter. It's on the recommendation of someone, and it works so far. It also allows me to put up SR, which my team needs, as it really goes on slugging the other team, hoping to score a KO on everything weakened.


drag.png

D Trak (Dragonite) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- SuperPower

I really really really enjoy using D Trak. He's so underrated, and people are usually at a loss. they expect the dragon on my belt to be a Salamence. Dragonite is more useful, i find...
For one, you don't have to pants about with a JOLLY nature, because you don't need to be outspeeding much anyway. So, stick to adamant and go.
Secondly, he gets fire punch, to deal with scizors, thinking about SDing, or Skarm and Fort, trying to spike. He laughs as they're health goes.... bleh. 0%.
Aqua Tail puts a dent in gliscor, who i haven't seen much of lately.
EQ takes a big chunk out of Lucario and Jirachi, who seem to like to come in, expecting a defensive version.
I find myself bringing this guy out early game, and outraging off the bat, taking a massive chunk out of most things, immediately setting me up for a late game sweep. I really only use Outrage and Fire Punch, so i could bare to slip Aqua Tail out and put super power there to rape bliss and snorlax... i don't mind. The fat man does cause some problems...​

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Right! There's the team, let's look at the overview!

Flaws
My biggest weakness is SR, which strips 25% off half my team. And being a team with two choice pokemon, i'm no stranger to switching. I don't have a spinner, because half my team isn't affected by Spikes/T Spikes at all. I see no real need. If i was to have a spinner, would Specs Starmie w/ Ice Beam/Surf/HP Grass/rapid spin be an option? Or maybe SpecsTenta? Saves me spinning then on T spikes anyway. I'm more comfortable with SpecsDos right now, but i'm here to take advice, and it's what i'll do!

Threats
Tyranitar causes problems unless i can get a counter in straight away.
Scizor is also a bugger if i can't get Zappy in straight away.
Lucario is the same as above really.
Swampert causes bother unless it stays in on zappy, or dragonite.
Well predicting hera causes some problems at times.

These are off the top of my head, there may be more...

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Thanks for reading guys! I really hope you can help me improve!


CHANGES IN BOLD​
 
Hello!

What really hurt this team the most is that you have no Pokemon that resist Rock, meaning a Pokemon such as Dragon Dance Tyranitar can come in and do some serious damage. While Tyranitar cannot sweep your entire team alone, it can come pretty close to doing so. It can easily come in on Riakou and Zapdos, set up a Dragon Dance, and then do some serious damage. Basically, once Tyranitar gets off a DD, it will almost assuredly take out a large portion of your team. I suggest using a Pokemon that resists Rock, such as Swampert. Swampert can do pretty much the same things your Suicune can do, except for using Calm Mind. Swampert will immediately bring a lot of things to the team. Firstly, the much needed Rock resist is greatly appreciated. It adds some bulk to your team, and gives you a Pokemon that can last longer than the first couple of turns. It also provides Stealth Rock support, making it easier for Dragonite or any of your other sweepers to sweep. It also gives some more insurance against Tyranitar, who is quite capable of tearing through your team. Even though you lose your Calm Mind user in Suicune, I do not see it as much of an issue since you have another Calm Mind user in Raikou. One Calm Mind user is enough and I think Swampert will be a good addition to your team.

In the current metagame, with Metagross, Jirachi and Heatran, all common Pokemon, Swampert works really well. I suggest using Leftovers 252HP/252Def/4Atk, Impish Nature, Earthquake, Avalanche, Stealth Rock, Roar. A physical version of Swampert is chosen to help against Calm Minders such as Latias. Avalanche will hit it quite hard Earthquake is for STAB. Roar is there since you mentioned you like to have a Pokemon that can phaze away threats. The EV's allow Swampert to take physical hits to its fullest potential making a good counter to Tyranitar and capable of surviving a Salamence's Outrage and hitting back hard with Avalanche. This is a small suggestion but why have Extrasensory on Zapdos. Like I mentioned before, Tyranitar can have a field day with this team and if it comes in on Extrasensory, you are giving it a chance to do whatever it pleases. I suggest using U-Turn in place of Extrasensory. U-Turn is a great move on any Pokemon that can use it and Zapdos is no exception. Some of the most common switch-ins to Zapdos include Tyranitar and Latias, both of which are hit super effectively bu U-Turn. U-Turn also allows you to scout for your opponents counters. Also, on Dragonite, I suggest using Superpower over Earthquake. Superpower offers similar type coverage to Earthquake and the types Earthquake hits for super effective damage are covered by Aqua Tail.

Good Luck.
 
That's a great suggestion!:D Thankyou! I did consider him, but i lost the opportunity to bring vire in on an electric attack, although i gain another immunity to electric anyway. Thanks dood!
 
Actually, you could use Superpower over Aqua Tail. A neutral Outrage is as powerful as a super effective Aqua Tail, and the ability to destroy Snorlax, Blissey, and Tyranitar is cool.
 
I agree with Bloo's suggestion about Swampert. There isn't anything I can add about that.

I really don't like Electivire. I'm actually surprised he is still OU. Sure, he has a great ability and movepool but he isn't that hard to counter and take down. I recommend Jolteon in his place. It can still absorb electric attacks (only he restores HP instead of raising speed) and because you have gotten rid of Suicune will provide the extra special kick that your team needs. I recommend using this set:

Jolteon @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Charge Beam/Wish
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Shadow Ball

The first slot is really personal preference. Charge Beam will allow you to boost your Special Attack stat to get extra KOs. For example, a +1 Thunderbolt will do massive amounts of damage to the standard Scarf Magnezone. (it 2HKOs iirc) Wish will allow you to heal Zapdos and Dragonite from Stealth Rock and other damage.

Hope this helps!
 
electivire is ass, plus you have two electrics which could prove disastrous with DDTar.

ok so you can use Gliscor. You still rape the shit out of Tyranitar, and you can always send him in to cut Scizor up. He also beats Zapdos if you use SE, so use standard SDCullen (I mean gliscor)

so great, I give you leave for Gyarados to run through you. Not a problem! Turn that Specs into a Scarf so you can come in on a Gyarados that DD's once and fry him.
 
This team would love to have Rapid Spinner with 3 pokemon being weak to Stealth Rock and two of them being choiced. In other words if you predict wrong you just lost 25% left and in next time yours Zapdos and/or Dragonite will have only 50% left. Using choice flying pokemon is risky and rapid spinner would really help here. I would replace Electivire for Donphan, as it also stops DDTar (without super-effective special attack like Ice Beam), which may really do a number against your team and it resists electric and rock attacks. If you don't want to loose power, you may use CB Donphan with Rapid Spin in last slot. I guess that's it - in other slots it looks solid.

And I would suggest making Zapdos Scarf, even if only for DDGyarados, which may give you some trouble when Suicune is weakened.
 
Honestly, i cannot rememeber coming across a DD gyara that doesn't lead. Also, DONPHAN is my fave poke. So an offensive set would be awesome...

Dophan @ Expert Belt
252 attack, 242 hp, 4 def
adamant nature
- Stone Edge
- EarthQuake
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Shard

??

Then, grass knot will hirt my team massively.

I really like electivire. It's a great late game sweeper once everything is opened up.
 
DD Gyaras are out there. And you should know the awesomeness of Scarf Zapdos from your battles with me.
icon7.gif


But seriously, Electivire isn't that great. I'll give you an example;

The standard defensive Celebi (252HP/220Def;Bold) isn't even 2HKOed by Ice Punch. I strongly recommend that you replace him.
 
Howler said:
I really like electivire. It's a great late game sweeper once everything is opened up.
Click to expand...

Incidentally, Scizor is also a great late game sweeper once everything is opened up. Hell, anything that has its counters removed is a late game sweeper. Electivire sucks. Period.
 
What other pokemon with good attack and speed, with awesome coverage and a complete electric resist, are there?
 
Unfortunately, Donphan needs those Defensive EVs to handle TTar and another dangerous physical sweepers in bay, so I think if you want to run Donphan, use standard Rapid Spinner. And Donphan can only 2OHKO bulky water like Vaporeon with Choice Band, so Expert Belt won't help you much.

I'm really surprised that you only see DDGyara only as a lead... where to be honest it sucks. It uses DD and what ? Pory2, Celebi, Slowbro, etc. switches in and you just wasted one round for absolutely nothing. It's the best as a late-game/mid-game sweeper.

What other pokemon with good attack and speed, with awesome coverage and a complete electric resist, are there?
Click to expand...
Life Orb Mamoswine fits those criteria almost perfect and it's not that easily walled. You may run Ice Beam/Blizzard to deal with bulky grounds/skarmory. Jolteon also is fine, if you can kill Blissey before and it's also immune to T-Wave.

Sorry, but so many pokemon walls Electivire and it's not even funny, especially pure physical version. Swampert, Defensive Rhyperior, Bronzong, Cresselia, Uxie, Mesprit, Celebi, Defensive Shaymin, Tangrowth, Dusknoir, Weezing, Donphan... and trust me I can continue on how many things walls that version of Electivire. Heck, even Gliscor can handle Ice Punch and OHKO you back with Eartquake and with Brick Break even Snorlax can switch in and annihiliate you with EQ or STAB Return as it doesn't hit hard enough. With Mixed Electivire it looks a bit better, but still there are many things which can handle Electivire. Sorry, but it's really weak. So I suggest here to run that Donphan for Rapid Spinning, Gliscor or ScarfMamoswine (which outspeeds Dragon Dance Tyranitar).
 
This team suffers from several severe problems. For one, you have made a common mistake of newer players: Too many attack and stat-up moves, not enough Support moves. Out of 24 moves on your team, you are running 18 straight-up attacking moves, 2 Support Moves (taunt and roar), and 4 Stat-up moves (2 CMs, 1 Dragon Dance, and a Substitute). You don't have a single entry hazard or Status effect anywhere on your team.
Another problem here is that you have far too many Pokemon that share types and weaknesses, and far too few that cover eachother's weaknesses. Yes, you have Flying types to absorb ground moves aimed at EVire and Raikou and EVire to absorb Bolts aimed at Gyara and Cune, but that is where it ends. Looking at your weakness/resistance profile, we can see a huge Rock Weakness with no resistances, but we also see a large number of types unchecked. You have no Pokemon who resist any of the following types: Normal, Poison, Ghost, Dark, Rock, or Dragon. Because of this, something like CB/SD Weavile, DD Salamence, CB/CS Flygon, LO Mamo, LO Starmie, or DD Tyranitar can come in and walk through you entire team just on the virtue of you being incapable of resisting their STAB attacks.
This is further compounded by your lack of a priority user and/or scarfer on your team, which allows any Pokemon that can outspeed your fastest Pokemon (positive natured 115) the ability to remain untouched as long as they can OHKO you.
Another problem I see is properly assessing how to deal with threats. In several cases, you assess that there is a threat to your team, but the solution you propose to deal with that threat seems to be lacking. For example, you suggest that Suicune can Roar Salamence out. However, Suicune also packs Ice Beam. If the assumption is that Suicune will survive a hit to do something to Salamence, why would he choose to use a Roar that will only postpone Salamence's sweep (especially given that you know he will not be taking Stealth Rock Damage) rather than an Ice Beam that will end it? You also suggest that your Choiced Zapdos is a good answer to Swampert because it runs HP Grass. However, any experienced player will know that a Zapdos that switches in to Swampert will be packing HP Grass, as his other option is HP Ice, which would do very little, so you wouldn't switch it in. This lets them get a free switch in to something like Salamence or Heatran, who double-resist grass, and can put your team in major trouble as you are then forced to switch as they get a chance to set up DD/Sub or just deal massive damage to your switch-in.

So, to sum up:
1) Diversify your typing a bit. Or a lot. RUN A STEEL TYPE, seriously
2) Run something with Stealth Rock and probably something with a Status Move. Burn Support Heatran or Hypnosis/SR Bronzong fit these criteron and also add much-needed Steel types.
3) Run a Priority User and/or a Choice Scarfer
4) Think a little harder about what Pokemon threaten this team and how you can deal with them.
 
Duck?

Also, if you think that Lucario sucks there one of 2 things are wrong. 1) Your not using him properly or 2) He doesn't fit into your team. Run Swords Dance over Blaze Kick if your gona use him.

As Garganator said it would be better if you used Donphan or Mamo in Lucario's spot.

Then, I'd make Swampert your lead and not Gyara. Swampert can do much more for you as a lead then Gyara can. Namely get SR down pronto but he also counters a lot of common leads. Something which Gyara doesn't. Test it out.
 
I think you should put Swords dance and Crunch over Blaze Kick and Ice Punch on Lucario.

Ur Lucario is Adamant so it won't be outspeeding Mence anytime soon. Ice Punch can hurt celebi, but crunch hurts it more.

Crunch gives you better cover on Psychic pokes and massacres Dusknoir. If you use crunch the only pokemon you lose out on is Zapdos, cause Gliscor will just OHKO you with EQ.
 
Lucario doesn't seem like the right Steel Type for this team, as he is fragile enough that he can't really take hits. I would suggest something bulkier, like Scizor, who can take the Ice/Grass/Dragon hits sent at your team and his only weakness is covered by Swampert/Gyarados/Dragonite. Alternately, Heatran seems like a decent enough fit, absorbing Ice/Grass/Dragon, with Water/Ground/Fighting attacks being absorbed by Gyara and Dragonite. Metagross could work as well. Something with a little heft to it.
 
I agree, Lucario doesn't fit here anytime soon. I think that running bulky Scizor with Roost would help in absorbing dragon hits enough. I also think that Bronzong isn't bad idea here, as Bronzong is one of the best Salamence checks in game. It also handles dangerous opponents like DDTar and Swampert in check. But still Donphan with Ice Shard or Mamo isn't bad idea in that spot as I said earlier. And Swampert should be lead in Gyarados spot.
 
Now that you mention it, a bulky SD Scizor would do well in this team. Duel Screen Zong could also work. I recommend testing them out. With Scizor go; 252 HP / 188Def / 68Atk; Adamant Or, if your using duel screen zong, run 252HP / 200Def / 56SDef. Those are the best EVs for Zong when countering physical mence or mixmence. Watch out for the special ones.
 
I don't really know why you're using both Raikou AND Zapdos.They're different, i know, but they're also countered by the same things, and these things are able to give you some problems (Toxic Bliss and Pursuit TTar for example).

So, into my suggestions:

Scizor@ Life Orb
Adamant 176 HP/156 Atk/176Sdef (The Uber Spread without the speed)
~Bullet Punch
~U Turn
~Pursuit
~Roost

Scizor>>>Raikou, so you can kill those Latias and revenge kill things with bullet punch.


Without Latias, Zapdos can sweep easier, so...why not a Life Orb set with Roost>>>Extrasensory? A lot of teams rely on Latias to wall Zapdos and i used the Trapper Scizor + LO Zapdos before with great sucess (watch out for HP fire Latias).


Bulky Gyarados isn't really a good lead, but offensive gyarados is!
Jolly Max Attack/Max Speed 2HKO Metagross after a DDance and OHKO (and outspeed!) Heatrans before the DDance.
Dragon Dance/Taunt/Waterfall/Stone Edge is my suggestion with jolly nature, max atk/max spd.

Also, something like ScarfJirachi/Scarftran over Lucario, because you need something capable of revenge killing Lucario (with Roost Zapdos, scizor isn't a problem).
If you still want to use Lucario, Jolly nature and Crunch>>>Blaze Kick (Jolly to outspeed things like Salamence and Zapdos, and Crunch because Close Comabt alredy covers steels, while crunch can help against Rotom).
 
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