Other Tiers FireRed/LeafGreen Discussion Thread

GoldenSandslash15

Only 212 Pokémon are available in this game (Link). There's also quite a few items missing (Bright Bowder, Choice Band, Light Ball, Mental Herb, Scope Lens, Shell Bell, and White Herb; along with the Figy, Wiki, Mago, Aguav, Liechi, Ganlon, Salac, Petaya, Apicot, Lansat, and Starf berries). Losing the Choice Band is HUGE. We also lose access to Emerald Move Tutors, the move Dive, and lots of Egg moves that require Hoenn mons to breed.

Curious if anyone is interested in making this into an actual metagame or not.
 
GoldenSandslash15 said:
Only 212 Pokémon are available in this game (Link). There's also quite a few items missing (Bright Bowder, Choice Band, Light Ball, Mental Herb, Scope Lens, Shell Bell, and White Herb; along with the Figy, Wiki, Mago, Aguav, Liechi, Ganlon, Salac, Petaya, Apicot, Lansat, and Starf berries). Losing the Choice Band is HUGE. We also lose access to Emerald Move Tutors, the move Dive, and lots of Egg moves that require Hoenn mons to breed.

Curious if anyone is interested in making this into an actual metagame or not.
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Whats interesting is that unless they extensively bug fixed the BOX System, in FRLG itself you should be able to ACE any Pokemon as an Encounter which theoretically negates this.

But yeah I think nonetheless playing a format that lacks a lot of the RSE Heavy Hitters would be an interesting experiment. (Smeargle is dead too I just missed him)
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Looking at this, the most viable rock resist available is machamp, which is insane. This means dd tar would be a terror, and aero might still be good despite losing cb. Hard to make judgements, but I'd predict that steelix and donphan suddenly become viable for lack of better options for dealing with rock spam. However, they cannot touch gengar. It could be that the metagame becomes stale very quickly because every team needs donphan or steelix to beat dd tar, so every team will run gengar to beat those mons. I fear the meta would devolve into two extremes of like, steelix suittar mag skarm bliss defmie structures on the one hand, and rock spam on the other, either something akin to clasico or mag offense with aero and tar. Hard to say for certain ofc. Celebi, jirachi and the regis being gone also means that every team will need a blissey or a lax. Again, it'd probably be mag lax tar offenses vs bliss donphan structures. Feels like the stall structures would win this interaction. I hope I'm wrong, but I think this would be a very boring metagame
 
Some of those mons on the VR are actually not able to be found because of the Mystery Gift never being distributed for Altering Cave. Nvmd you said Smeargle was gone my bad.

Losing CB is huge, and debatably Salac and even Liechi/Petaya, as is losing Pert/Meta - it means DDTar will not need to worry about them in the back. You also lose Wisp Molt, BP Zap, boom Lax, Ice Punch/Wisp Gar, and PursuitTar. The movepools weren't really that impacted besides that, except for egg move inheritance, as the Move Tutors include most good moves, anyway.
 
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Worth mentioning that because of the roamer glitch, all of the Johto legendary beasts face a sizeable drop in power. Unless the games can communicate with the eventual switch 2 Colosseum release (where they can have normal IVs), they patch the bug, or Champions does something weird, they are stuck with max IVs of 31/8/0/0/0/0. Absolutely crippling swing for these Pokemon, effectively losing -15.5 BST and 31 points of raw stats for each stat set to 0. Raikou is outsped by base 100 Pokemon by one point!
 
White herb is gone lol, so are stat berries. It'd almost have to be lefties spam on every mon, maaybe aero would prefer lum in some situations. But yeah the fact that the only viable offensive is lum berry further solidifies my point that it would probably be a donphan/steelix skarmbliss stall fest
 
In the Orre community we have discussed this format a bit, and there are some notable differences besides mon legality to consider. As already mentioned, Choice Band and Salac Berry are not available, Suicune and Raikou are locked to terrible IVs (effectively they lose 60 BST). Moves such as Will-O-Wisp on Weezing, Moltres and Gengar, Self-Destruct Snorlax, Baton Pass Zapdos, Knock Off Alakazam and so many other moves (It is really hard to compile an exhaustive list because you have to check every egg move, then try to find a valid egg move chain and if you cannot then it is illegal).

We cannot yet know for certain some details such as if Altering Cave will be accessible which would be the only way to obtain Forretress, Houndoom and Smeargle. Also the Roamer IV glitch may be patched which would significantly buff Raikou/Suicune.

With that said I agree with Janis105 that Tyranitar is probably the most centralising mon in the 'FRLG OU' format. My view is that the FRLG Switch ports are primarily aimed at casual fans and only truly dedicated and somewhat insane people would build serious competitive teams on the Switch.

Here are some replays of the Orre community trying out FRLG VGC rules:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3orrecolosseum-2545900075-l899benoqw87ox3sa5ij375xu01tdggpw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3orrecolosseum-2545901356-jarc2xtn82vafo1rxjkg0y5q4lvdvt1pw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3orrecolosseum-2545903172-lxuj8jknjsfmjy6kp4a4k3b6rp6uokkpw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3orrecolosseum-2545910141
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3orrecolosseum-2545913133
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3orrecolosseum-2545914837
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3orrecolosseum-2546437352
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3orrecolosseum-2546439942
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3orrecolosseum-2546441638
 
List of important move pickups on mons that, tmk, aren't found elsewhere:
- Zap Cannon Forretress (you can't legally obtain one, but I found this interesting)
- Megahorn Nidoking
- Superpower Nidoqueen
...and that's about it, lol. Are there any more?

Also, a list of moves that are available in Emerald as well could be useful, as some people may not want to trade up from the original games.
 
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Weird to see all the discussion on this hypothetical tier split up so much. The ADV 200 community has been discussing it a fair bit, and it seems neat to try for a few battles.
 
TLDR; some notable new viable stuff:
  • Reversal SD Agil Sub Scizor pops off/SDPass is a legit threat (targets include DDTar/DDNite/DDGyara/Tauros/Aero) - no Salac tho
  • Donphan is all over the place (Rest sets/Aroma from Plume is p good) - best Rock resist
  • Gar loses a lot of utility in losing Wisp/Ice Punch/Fire Punch but still can run the rest of its good moves + Psychic
  • Dug/Aero lose CB/Liechi and kinda suck (tho Aero still has use on SDPass and Dug on weather clear)
  • Vileplume is legit the best Aroma/Heal Bell user (a lot of mons like Blissey lose it)
  • Bliss loses Wish too!
  • CursePass Jolt/Curse Aero isn't real (no White Herb)
  • Scyther has its niche HP Bug/AERIAL ACE/SD/BP set (don't use Reversal it's trash in sand)
  • Ttar loses Pursuit so Reversal SD Zor still isn't the best
  • ofc Snorlax loses boom (big)
  • Ninetales is actually viable (best Wisp user/Hypno)
  • Weezing/Molt lose Wisp, don't use them
  • Legendary dogs lose most of their utility (Cune is still usable but GOLDUCK STONKS)
  • PhysOff without wisp feels strong but Donphan is nice against
  • Electabuzz might actually be usable (loses Cross Chop tho)
  • Skarm/Ttar/Mie/Bliss still do their things
  • Dnite replaces Mence basically (can do other stuff like Focus Punch and Ice Beam/Thunder too)
  • Less Dug means meta shift, including making room for even more Mag and stuff like Ninetales
Sorry to get all YakGPT on you but I just played a few matches and would love more people to get involved :)
 
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Notable moves that are technically obtainable via FRLG events:
bellsprout: teeterdance
chansey: sweetscent, wish
drowzee: bellydrum, wish
exeggcute: sweetscent, wish
farfetchd: wish, yawn
igglybuff: tickle
kangaskhan: wish, yawn
lickitung: healbell, wish
meowth: petaldance
oddish: leechseed
pichu: followme, surf, teeterdance
poliwag: sweetkiss
psyduck: mudsport
wynaut: tickle
 
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