First Team Ever- OU Help Needed

[VmissileX]

Alrighty, Hello Everyone.
Before I present the team to you guys, I want to explain how I came up with this team and how I even thought about joining Competitive battling. I'll keep it short, but if you don't wish to read, just skip down.
I recently bought Pokemon Platinum after a kazillion years of break from pokemon due to school and stuff. Summer hit and there was nothing to do, so why not play something fun and competitive? Especially with the new Wifi. I baught the game sometime roughly in early june, and I have accumulated near 200ish hours so far on it.
I have currently bred 2 of the pokemon on my RMT, but I have put hours during my work schedule into making this team. I have thought of many of the weakness's, but I'm probably still uncertain. I have also tested this team choice on shoddy a couple of times, and I am seemingly happy (3 Losses 10 Wins), but I wish to correct/ switch out members/ fix things.

I tried my best, and I would like honest opinions on how most of this team sounds. Tear it up and change things. I don't expect it to be anywhere near good even after my testing (but please remember I am very new to this, Constructive comments needed).

Now without further ado, here is the team.
------------------------------
The Lead:

Adamant Natured- 252 HP/ 236 ATK/ 12 DEF/ 8 SPE- Occa Berry/ Shuca/ Leftovers
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Explosion (Ice Punch worked wonders on the all too common Aero)

I have seen his use on shoddy, and I am happy. He always gets his rocks out. Although I had a major debate wether over him or the ability to taunt with Aero, meta takes the cake for me. If not, many of his moves have the ability to make him a possible late game destroyer aswell. Clear body works well if the lead is a gyarados. The most clearest strategy with him is to set up stealth rocks with his bulk, and then after examining the opponents decide to what to do next. I think ice punch would be useful to replace the suicidal abilities. Many already know of explosion, so they will switch to a ghost.

The Special Attacker

Timid Natured- 252 Sp Atk, Speed- Leftovers
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
Gengar is incredibly fast and extremely strong. It is one of the very few which I have seen so far that does not need boosts to do a very effective sweep. He also has immunities to fighting, ground, and Normal. The issue though is his defenses, which are extremely weak. Substitute makes up for the extremely weak defenses and gives him an extra life. I know many of you guys are saying he will probably need a life orb, but gengar has such a high Sp Atk, this seems semi unnecessary.

SD Lucario

Adamant Natured- -252 Attack, 252 Speed/ 4 HP- Life Orb
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Extreme Speed

Set change from endure reversal too physical SD luc. This guy can take down the all too common blissey and many other special walls. The adamant nature allows him to kill the toughest of threats (skarmory etc). Extremespeed makes for needed speed, if needed. I have to look although to see who my enemy is and see if they are faster than luc here.

The Nuiscance

Modest/Calm?- Leftovers- Serene Grace-252 Hp-60 SP atk-196 SP Def
-Thunder Wave
-Air Slash
-Roost
-Aura Sphere
Ok, lets face it, everyone hates the toga. Especially when he gets his T-Wave down and starts air slashing everyone/everything. This guy annoyed many people as i've seen. Once again though, the opponents team must be evaluated a bit atleast, but if done correctly, he can annoy many and get tons of kills

Physical Sweeper

Adamant- Life Orb- 252 Attk-252 Speed- 4 HP
-Ice Fang
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Stone Edge
Alright, he has done his jobs against many salamence and dragonite, but he might be replaced by Kingdra. Gyara is VERY vulnerable to thunder and also rock and that does screw over many things my way. Kingdra's lack of weaknesses seem very viable here. The strategy though is typical in the late game sweeper stage. He pretty much attacks and destroys when set up with dragon dance.

The Scouter/Wall

-Rest
-Waterfall
-Roar
-Sleep Talk/ Ice Punch

Okay this team would get nowhere without this guy. Many of the guys above need to see their foes to be able to do what they need to do. He is an excellent roarer and extremely bulky. After a rest, he will pretty much absorb all the damage he received. With that he can also sleep talk waterfall if needed. Roar although is a crux of this team, and his importance is not meant to be undermined.


Alright I did do some testing, and I have found some really bad weaknesses.
Here are some i've noticed, but I am pretty sure you guys can find much more.

Threats
-Kingdra- Not a threat anymore, thanks everyone down there.
-Hippodon- Not a threat anymore.
- Suicune- I got lucky with this guy once or twice with gengars T-Bolt, but if he calm minds up various times, especially with a sub, I can loose really easily.

I know there are more weaknesses , But I will need your guys help to fix up what the issues at hand lie. Switch out members and give me opinions. I will be sure to work on this before I make it, so much help will be needed.

 

[-Terywj-]

On Gengar, you could consider the Substitue+Petaya/Salac Berry set, or give him Life Orb for extra oomph. Everything else is pretty standard as far as I'm concerned.

Where are your EV's for Swampert? O.O

-Terywj

 

[smokinquincy]

Hi. I really like your team, it has screwed me over several times but if you're thinking of an unpredictable Metagross, I'll let you know that I got owned by a trick+scarf Metagross. I dont know what EV's to put on it, however, once you trick something you're free to set-up whatever you want on the switch-in.
I'd probably go with

Choice Scarf

Trick
Ice Punch
Stealth Rock/Agility
Zen Headbut

Trick and force a switch. Agility/StealthRock the turn. If you used Agility, try and early sweep. Dunno if this would work but its worth a try.

I carry that same Togekiss on my Mono-Normal against OU and it works wonders. No suggestions ahah.

 

[mtr]

All right, let's start from the top.

Metagross is fine.

Gengar isn't really helping your team as much as he could be. I recommend making him a Scarfer, Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt/HP Ice/Filler.

Lucario isn't either, and priority really isn't hot stuff with Scizor around. Try using this set:

Lucario (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Aura Sphere
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Vacuum Wave
---

How this works: Lucario's main counters are all physically based. This will lure them out and destroy them so Gyarados can sweep.

Togekiss is fine if you like it. There's nothing wrong with it.

Gyarados is fine.

Swampert is...not fine. Try this instead:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Grass Knot
- Reflect
- Recover
---

This should help you with your Kingdra troubles. Just use Grass Knot and then revenge kill him with Shadow Ball after he has to Outrage. If the Kingdra has Leftovers, you win anyways. If not, just use Thunder Wave and stall with Recover until confusion sets in.

Gyarados can break through Hippowdon, or at least give it a lot of trouble, so just try to keep him alive and don't throw him around too much.

Suicune is really a pain, and a lot of teams end up being weak to him. If you want to counter him, then your choices are limited. You could use a physically offensive Celebi over the set I gave you. Or you could use...shudder...Electivire over Togekiss if it really was a problem. Otherwise, just blow up with Metagross on it.

Good luck and let me know what changes you make.

 

[DarkCyberElf]

Lucario surprisingly does horribly with any set that forces him to use one move, he needs to be as unpredictable as possible. It doesn't matter what he uses on the switch, most things will beat him by pure speed. Without the threatening ExtremeSpeed, there goes your reliable priority move (but yes Vacuum Wave does do well). Lucario is really fragile, and Choice Specs Luke isn't going far if he needs to get revenge kills and he keeps getting hurt. If Celebi is to be used at all, its best set includes these: Leech Seed (cause switches like insanity), Thunder Wave (agreed), HP Fire (Scizor and company think twice about coming out to play against Defensive Celebi with this move), and either of these: Leaf Storm/Grass Knot/Recover/Reflect (I don't recommend having HP Fire as your sole move. Recover is only if you plan on using it to wall things. The thing about Kingdra btw mtr12, NEVER let him Dragon Dance twice. Kingdra is very bulky on both ends, and you can't afford to give him +2 of anything, he will rape your socks off with Waterfall and Outrage. He can come in again and again unlike late-game sweeper Empoleon, since his dual typing and great resistances let him set up easily. This entire team makes his set up privileges very hard (maybe Swampert, but then he has Roar). The best thing to do against Kingdra is to make setting up hard for him.

All right, let's start from the top.

Metagross is fine.

Gengar isn't really helping your team as much as he could be. I recommend making him a Scarfer, Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt/HP Ice/Filler.

Lucario isn't either, and priority really isn't hot stuff with Scizor around. Try using this set:

Lucario (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Aura Sphere
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Vacuum Wave
---

How this works: Lucario's main counters are all physically based. This will lure them out and destroy them so Gyarados can sweep.

Togekiss is fine if you like it. There's nothing wrong with it.

Gyarados is fine.

Swampert is...not fine. Try this instead:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Grass Knot
- Reflect
- Recover
---

This should help you with your Kingdra troubles. Just use Grass Knot and then revenge kill him with Shadow Ball after he has to Outrage. If the Kingdra has Leftovers, you win anyways. If not, just use Thunder Wave and stall with Recover until confusion sets in.

Gyarados can break through Hippowdon, or at least give it a lot of trouble, so just try to keep him alive and don't throw him around too much.

Suicune is really a pain, and a lot of teams end up being weak to him. If you want to counter him, then your choices are limited. You could use a physically offensive Celebi over the set I gave you. Or you could use...shudder...Electivire over Togekiss if it really was a problem. Otherwise, just blow up with Metagross on it.

Good luck and let me know what changes you make.

Metagross is my favorite Pokemon and lead, being #1 on the popular lead list. I recommend Meteor Mash (this allows you to beat Azelf), Bullet Punch (which by the way makes it so you don't need Ice Punch because it 2HKO's Aero anyway, and Meteor Mash OHKO's if you don't count the Sash), Earthquake (lets you beat Infernape leads when you have the Occa Berry) and then finally Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock can be given to Swampert, then replaced with Grass Knot if you want Metagross to beat Swampert, Hippowdon and such leads. Bronzong will wall you no matter what. Grass Knot is risk though, I know without SpA investment, it may not even 2HKO Hippowdon.

Scarf Gengar is unexpected, true, but as a revenge killer, not happening. Substitute lets Gengar get out when things with Pursuit and BP (Scizor) come in to threaten. If he runs HP Fire with Sub and his two normal moves, Shadow Ball and Focus Blast, he can really tear up the floor. Thunderbolt isn't necessary, as Gyarados won't switch into you, and you can't switch into Gyarados either, so it doesn't help so much. Shadow Ball 2HKO's most anyway except the Bulky Gyarados. Keep your own format VmissileX, or change Thunderbolt to HP Fire or something else, like Hypnosis (not recommended).

Reversal Lucario.... Yeah I don't see it beating a team with priority moves.
Basically, if you are gunna use Lucario, use its more useful sets, more threatening ones, although this one can certainly do stuff, like being unexpected. Swords Dancing the first turn gives it away as a LO SD Luke, but you run Reversal, so Gliscor gets raped, but all those bulky Rotoms will probably beat you. Besides that, priority makes it hard for that set to succeed. I see Lucario setting up on Tyranitar, who gives your team problems. I guess if Lucario does work for you, keep him, but I recommend either a different set or using Scizor. Togekiss is actually hard to put on a team. Even with her bulk, she is hard to do much with, do to her being effortlessly walled by Blissey without Sub or Nasty Plot. But I guess you have Swampert to soak up the status being thrown around, and you can set up Lucario on Blissey if its using Toxic. It could work, nice team building. Gyarados should run the BulkyDos set to take advantage of Taunt, which lets you stop Kingdra. I don't have much to say about the rest. I do however have an answer to your threat list.

Kingdra: Alright so starting from the top. Kingdra can be beaten by pivoting. Thats the best way to do it for your team. Depending on when he comes in to set up, simply switch in Gyarados for the Intimidate drop. This makes him coerced into either D-Dancing again, or using Outrage. To block the obvious Outrage, you need Metagross's steel typing and good def to block it. Switch Gyarados in again when he is stuck on Outrage for yet another attack drop. Gyarados shouldn't take much damage, and then start Dragon Dancing in his face, if he decides to do the same, it should be hard for him since Outrage causes confusion.

Hippowdon: Hippowdon is also easily shut down by Gyarados, after a Dragon Dance, Waterfall hurts like hell, and Taunt (in the BulkyDos set) stops the Stealth Rock, StockPile, Slack Off, Roar, whatever. Intimidate softens the random hits from Stone Edge. Gengar and Togekiss can easily wipe out Hippowdon. Swampert makes short work of him with Waterfall and his good defense to take Earthquakes.

Suicune: Surprisingly, Suicune's biggest enemy IS luck. Send in something that resists Surf (his only move most of the time), and then use Bulky Gyarados to Taunt him. Gengar can switch in, Thunderbolt for some good damage, but after a CM, Gengar loses to a OHKO from Surf.

 

[mtr]

The thing is, though, a scarfer helps with dealing with a DDMence. Otherwise, you have to concentrate on blocking his setup. I think your team can handle this, though, so go with your instinct on Gengar.

 

[DarkCyberElf]

The thing is, though, a scarfer helps with dealing with a DDMence. Otherwise, you have to concentrate on blocking his setup. I think your team can handle this, though, so go with your instinct on Gengar.

very true, and I suppose having a Pokemon that can outspeed everything without a Choice Scarf and 115 Base Speed is pretty useful, since getting nearly 500 Speed or over is insanely fast.

I just figured that Pursuit is inescapable without the ability to beat Pokemon using it, as well as have Substitute to attack twice before your opponent. This lets you get the crucial 2HKO on things Gengar could never handle, like using HP Fire to 2HKO Metagross.

 

[VmissileX]

Ok guys, thank you very much and for the extremely late reply.
Let me start from the beginning.
Swampert is Relaxed, EV's are 252 Hp/ 44 Def/ 212Sp Def


You guys are right on many things, especially the lucario. I wasn't able to get on smogon at all, but I was able to check get on shoddy. Endure-reversal barely worked because almost everyone switched to scizor and quickattacked. Either that or physical lucario with extremespeed. I think it is a possibility to switch to spec, or even SD luc. Although I do have a feeling that will probably make a huge requirement to remake many changes to my team already. I will have to edit, test and see what is to change and then edit the first post from there.

I think it might be more worthy to take out togekiss and put in celebi. Would that work a bit better? Toge did do allot on shoddy though, and it is a hard choice. I'm gonna have to test the difference out.

I am actually very much enjoying testing out this Bulky Gyara, I think that will be my solution to my gyara issue.

About gengar, yes I have to agree adding scarf would be probably the best useful with trick, but other than it, the speed is not useful unless something DD setups. If its possible to kill this setup (which I have done with everything except kingdra - hopeful change), then I don't know if scarf would be useful.

I'm reading all of the suggestions as we speak.


At the end, I would like to give all of you guys a very hearty thank you. I know it takes a very long time writing all of this and giving such constructive feedback which I would not find on any other site. It really means allot to me that you guys spent much time fixing and finding so many issues on my team, I feel it would only be correct to check on all of this and spend as much time testing as you guys spent critiquing. Thank you very much for helping me.

 

[Ishamael]

Personally I really like EQuake on a Gyrados b/c after a DDance he can kill electrics, idk if that would work for you but it sucks switching out and losing DDances if you cant kill an electric type.

Metagross is good, T-Punch is worth considering b/c it kills water types that resist steel moves, and opposing gyarados, but I like it.

Kingdra is tough without dragon moves, and you dont have any. Solution there, or just hit him hard with metagross b/c of resistances.

Hippowdon gets killed by special anything, water and grass are good, none of those special either...

Suicune is difficult after it gets set up, so try to take it out fast, good tips earlier for that.

Hope I could help...

 

[VmissileX]

Hmm you did help.
T punch would be actually, to probably replace explosion. It could take down the gyarados's and suicunes possibly. Hmm...although I do have gengar for T bolt, which would be useful for the high speed.

I think Kingdra's off my threat list at the moment thanks to everyone who helped (including you ish), and hippowdon too (gyarados works).

Thank you very much.

Updated Op a bit.