Fixing UU

Jumpman16

np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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Jump, there's only one real problem I have with your explanation of the whole "sexp in OU" thing. You mentioned that you wanted to shift things away from "you just have to win" by using SEXP as a more "objective" gauge of how much people know about the suspects. Yet by all the emphasis you've made, it's pretty clear that the best way to get SEXP is to win. So you've shifted it from "win a lot" to "win a lot in battles containing the suspect", which has effectively no real difference.
There's a difference. Think about it.

Also, regarding FiveKRunner:


Not only did your *entire* evaluation of his paragraphs consist of digs at his Suspect EXP, but you come out and say that Suspect EXP or lack thereof is a specific reason that you barred his submission. That's all I'm going to say on the matter, but I'm willing to bet that there are people who didn't post their paragraphs and got rejected through SEXP one way or another.
When we ask for submissions, we of course ask voters to answer two questions.

1) Characterize your involvement in the test. Did you play consistently throughout the month, or did you gain all your experience at the end of the test? Did you use the suspect avidly yourself or concentrate on observing it in battle?

2) Describe the criteria you will be using to cast your vote. For you, what aspects of a pokemon should be judged when determining its tiering between OU and Uber?

A closer look details that the first question is actually rather objective in nature and intentionally phrased to elicit quantitative responses. The section of 5Kr's post that I quoted and then responded to was entirely in response to this first question.

And no, the entire evaluation wasn't about SEXP, your exaggeration is *inaccurate* and *annoying*. The second section I quoted was my response to his answer to the second question. I addressed his submission in a linear manner, which makes perfect sense.

The first question is naturally addressed by objective data I have at my disposal, and the second is addressed by my subjective reasoning. I appreciate you trying to make it seem like I used SEXP to filter him out, but you are wrong. I somehow doubt that's "all you're going to say on the matter", though...

In fact, I'd like to know why we abandoned the practice from the Deoxys-S and Wobbuffet old tests where the reasoning behind accepting/rejecting votes was posted. It gave a lot more insight into how the whole thing worked, and would make for generally better submissions IMO.
It's a huge hassle and Aeolus and I don't want to deal with the inevitable "backlash" (and spare me any suggestions that we post them in a private forum or whatever where we wouldn't invite public responses to our judging, or any naïve assertions that the voters wouldn't just PM us instead). Reading and evaluating hundreds of submissions fairly is an incredibly time-consuming and draining process, and it's our right to not extend that if we don't want to.

Despite this, I said I might do it for Latios submissions anonymously, but was preempted by a few overzealous voters, so I did it in that thread for the eight or nine people who posted. If anyone wants to see an idea of how I judge votes they can revisit the Latios thread you're quoting from. Aside from all that, I didn't want to give people a cookie-cutter template to follow when making submissions, I've mentioned that several times.

The whole UU thing seems kind of irrelevant now that j7r has posted his plan and I back it, but I still have an issue. You mention that you are "against SEXP being used to exclude any votes", when actually, I'm in favor of it for the Bold Nominations. There are a lot of bold votes for shit like Ambipom that are basically absord, and I'm willing to bet that SEXP can help weed out a lot of those bold votes before it even matters. So yes, I support SEXP being used to eliminate nominees, but ONLY for Bold Bold Nomination, and only because Bold Nomination is done purely on the merit of one's experience with the potential suspect.
I've already stated that your issue should be with the nomination process, but whatever. When I say I've never rejected a submission because of SEXP, I mean 100% because of SEXP. Obviously SEXP could be used in the nomination process, but if any of the current detractors don't have a problem with this they are hypocrites.

Finally, I'd like to ask something. You say that you've "caught cheaters" with the formula, which makes me wonder how revealing it would make it any less effective. If you know how the formula can be gamed and what its flaws are, then why not reveal it? It's not like it's some kind of magic where it only works when nobody knows what it is. None of that post addresses why the formula isn't public, which is my only concern.
Doug and I have beaten this to death both here and on IRC with you, I don't think it's possible for me to answer this without repeating something either he or I has already said. I will say this though. A few days ago, Hip said this:

Based on my experience with the Latios test, where I qualified for voting despite only battling for one weekend, with a standard OU team with Latios hastly subbed in, and didnt have much success at all (or was this the latias test, I dont remember, one of the two). You are adding a group of players to the voter pool who werent able to make the rating/deviation requirements based on the fact that they used the suspect in all of their battles (and possibly you are also removing people from the voter pool who did make the requirements but who didnt use the suspect in their battles).
And I stated that he used Latios 51 times and in all of his battles. I also mentioned that he posted in the Inside Scoop thread where I first posted the preliminary details of the idea of SEXP. Now, when you read the "didnt have much success at all" Hip posted in some neat attempt to highlight how easily he "qualified" just by hastily subbing in Latios, can you tell me any other legitimate reason that someone would continue to use a pokemon that wasn't bringing him or her much success? 51 times in a row?

This is the reason Doug and I are keeping the formula private. Doug and I have reason to believe that there are other ways to manipulate the formula, so Doug and I have the right to keep it private. And to be blunt: yes, I do 100% think that the only reason Hip used Latios 51-of-51 times is because he knew the preliminary details of the SEXP formula and was gaming the system.
 

Hipmonlee

Have a nice day
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And to be blunt: yes, I do 100% think that the only reason Hip used Latios 51-of-51 times is because he knew the preliminary details of the SEXP formula and was gaming the system.
It wasnt.

Have a nice day.
 

jrrrrrrr

wubwubwub
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can we please talk about sexp somewhere else and move all of the relevant posts into that thread? I love all the attention my great thread has been getting but I'm afraid that it's for the wrong reasons....

I want to finish the discussion on the UU process because it is about to get underway, all of this sexp talk is getting people riled up and the relevant discussion is getting lost

please dont infract me :x
 

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