Forming UU team, Please help!!!

Jumpman16

np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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Yeah, Shuckle works, but if your opponent doesn't bring a Sand Stream into play he won't look quite so appealing anymore. He won't be able to go toe-to-toe with Starmie which is quite crippling for your team. Muk does a great job of it on the other hand...infact Starmie doesn't even break his Subs unless it's the rare Psychic version.
The idea is that, since we're talking about "UU in OU", the Shuckle user him- or herself will be able to support it the way it should be if it wants to be a special wall, and could (should) use Hippowdon and/or Tyranitar. It's not like a UU battle where Shuckle wouldn't have Sand Stream by default, much like how Walrein is not going to shine in OU without its precious Hail that comes from the BL Abomasnow.
 
Shuckle does have uses outside of pure special support wall, it makes an amazing 'safe switch' Pokemon. In that you can bring it in taking minimal damage. Encore the opponent and Knock Off when it tries to switch or switch out to the actual intended Pokemon easing prediction alot.

If I was to use a Shuckle I would assume Sandstorm doesn't even come into the equation. All I'd be concerned about is whether it works in my team. If it really needed the Sandstorm than it'd become a matter of debating over whether to sneak an Hippowdon into my team.
 
can anyone recommend good residual damage users? (stealth rock, spikes, T spikes?) I had a combination of Nidoqueen and Tentacruel doing that on my last team, and its played a big part in most of the battles I've won.
 
Well you can still use Nidoqueen ... you could also try Omastar (does all three), Cloyster (Spikes, T Spikes),
 
can anyone recommend good residual damage users? (stealth rock, spikes, T spikes?) I had a combination of Nidoqueen and Tentacruel doing that on my last team, and its played a big part in most of the battles I've won.
Everyone and their dog gets SR as a TM. Just pick someone who forces switches and SR on their switch (or kill their spinner). It'll work I swear.

Spikes are hard to do without Skarms and aren't very common, but let's have a look at who does learn it outside of OU:
Cloyster, does fine.
Qwilfish, hard as hell and not tanky enough. Can be surprising.
Cacturne, does great but I think is currently BL.
Glalie, very lame pokemon that can learn some weird moves. Ice isn't as necessary without dragons though.
Omastar, does fine.

Toxic Spikes are even harder to do unless you use the obvious Forry or Tenta. Here we go again:
Cloyster again, still fine.
Qwilfish again, a bit better than spikes given it takes one less turn.
Omastar again, still fine.
Venomoth, useful with status-inducers. Sleep something, TSpike on the switch.
Ariados, trap something and set up both spikes? Don't die? Hard.
Beedrill, BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Nido*, works fine.


Just look over your options and proceed from there. Every time.
 
I should note that I highly don't recommend Omastar despite learning all three. Its typing doesn't give it much room to do the job properly and the lack of good suicide moves.

Drapion is a very sturdy TS option which can even even use Roar/Whirlwind to shuffle afterwards.

Qwilfish is actually a decent option being quite fast and able to Explode OR Destiny Bond when done and sharing Tenta's typing.

Nidoqueen is still great really and by far the most versatile.

You might be noticing a pattern with the T-Spiker users here, majority of them outside Skarm/Forretress are all weak to ground. Venomoth probably fills a niche here actually in that respect but still gets murdered by flying/psychic.

In this respect Cloyster is actually the prime candidate for you.
 
Drapion's amazing and isn't used enough.
Omastar isn't bad if you pack some heat with CSpecs Surf and Ice Beam. Just spike when they switch to your counter. Keep in mind that any grass attack is easy to aim at a fire type.
 
I wasn't actually so much looking at Omastar's grass weakness so much as its Ground weakness and the fact if it does somehow survive its job it can't do much besides launch a Surf/Hydro Pump which will probably be outsped.
 

Bologo

Have fun with birds and bees.
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Relicanth is a very good Stealth Rock user, even with the shitty typing. It can lay down stealth rock, probably survive as long as it isn't a grass move (even moreso if there's sandstorm up), then it can force and punish switches with Yawn. As the switch-in comes in, not only will they be taking residual damage, but they face the risk a huge Head Smash coming their way, or something else getting Yawned away, or a waterfall/aqua tail to the face. 100 base HP and 130 base defense lets it take quite a beating before it goes down, and 65 special defense, while it seems crappy is actually not bad in a sandstorm.

Pretty awesome if you ask me considering Head Smash can 2HKO even Skarmory.
 
Drapion/Nidoqueen I think does the job slightly better despite the weakness along both having bulkiness and being able to psuedo haze and decently fast too. I know Drapion especially since the thing can even survive STAB Garchomp EQ's. Plus I don't think the issue isn't so much Ground types per se rather than the moves themself.

Edit:
Oh yeah and as Bologo said, Relicanth is pretty much more immediately threatening after laying its Stealth Rock. It lacks the Spikes but I don't think Omastar is exactly sticking around to lay the spikes either.
 
Like others have said, the odds are going to be against you. Make sure that your pokemon support each other perfectly, and try to have a plan from the start. You no longer have the luxury of playing it by ear. Use the unique niches some UU and BL have, toxic orb clefable for instance (awesome). Leafeon is in my opinion the best swords dance passer in the game, and mismagius can take down non CM blisseys.

The key is that you have the element of surprise on your side, abuse it while you can. Just my two cents.
 
Choice Band Crawdaunt can do excellent. So can the Hitmons. Since I use Crawdaunt regularly, I'll post his Choice Set.

Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
252 ATK 252 SPD or DEF

Adamant Nature

-Crunch
-Waterfall
-Superpower
-Return/X scissor/Rock Slide/Aerial Ace

So anyways, you reach an amazing 558 attack, and then pick one of your 120 BP moves to spank someone with. If you want damage calcs, I can post them. Lets jsut say that it OHKOs blissey, Ttar, Dusknoir, etc, and sometimes Rhyperior.
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
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Okay, this isn't at all worthy of a warstory thread all of it's own but I just want to give an example of how UU Pokemon are capable of going toe-to-toe with the best of them, with good prediction.

It's a quick battle, but I'll try to give some insight and advice. Sandstorm and Leftovers have been omitted.

My (LMR's) squad :



Syntacus' squad :



Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
LMR sent out Hitmonlee (lvl 100 Hitmonlee ♂).
syntacus sent out Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ♂).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
A sandstorm brewed!

First rule, know your Pokemon. Hitmonlee obviously has a HUGE advantage over Tyranitar, so Ican safely assume that the beast will not be staying in for fear of Close Combat. There aren't many Pokemon who an safely switch into a Close Combat, other than Ghost types and Gliscor. I prepare for either of the two.

syntacus switched in Gengar (lvl 100 Gengar ♂).
Hitmonlee used Stone Edge.
Gengar lost 100% of its health.
syntacus's Gengar fainted.

Was an obvious enough move on paper, but it's given me an advantage.

syntacus switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ♂).

Speak of the devil. Gliscor's standard moveset consists of the likes of EQ, SR, Ice Fang, Roost or AA. Rotom can handle all of them.

LMR switched in Rotom (lvl 100 Rotom).
Gliscor used Aerial Ace.
It's not very effective...
Rotom lost 15% of its health.

At this point, I expect a Blissey switch so prepare to use Trick. However, I have a last minute change of heart (I decide it's too early give away my Choice Specs), so I make another move.

syntacus switched in Garchomp (lvl 100 Garchomp ♂).
Rotom used Will-o-wisp.
Garchomp was burned!
Garchomp was hurt by its burn!
Garchomp lost 12% of its health.

At this point there's a long pause on the opponent's side. Garchomp has been emasculated so I switch in my physical wall.

LMR switched in Blastoise (lvl 100 Blastoise ♂).
Garchomp used Substitute.
Garchomp lost 25% of its health.
Garchomp made a substitute!
The sandstorm rages.

Garchomp was hurt by its burn!
Garchomp lost 12% of its health.


Honestly, fuck this Garchomp. I'm glad I burned it, because I hate the Sub/Brightpower variants with a passion.

Garchomp used Swords Dance.
Garchomp's attack was sharply raised.
Blastoise used Roar.
syntacus switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ♂).

I decide not to play with fire.

syntacus switched in Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ♂).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
Blastoise used Surf.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 37% of its health.

The opponent elects not to leave Swampert in to take neutral Surfs, so Tyranitar is brought out, and I decide now is the best time to figure out it's set. Blastoise can take anything from a CB SE to a T-Bolt, so I hit him with a Surf. I have a suspicion that it will be a special variant. I know this because of Garchomps prescence. Although it's possible, it's unlikely that the opponent will be packing a totally physical Tyranitar and a totally physical Garchomp.

Blastoise used Surf.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 37% of its health.
Tyranitar used Thunderbolt.
It's super effective!
Blastoise lost 53% of its health.

Once again, know your Pokemon. This is most likely a Tyraniboah. I note that it was also slower than Blastoise, and is thus likely to be slower than my next switch too.

LMR switched in Golem (lvl 100 Golem ♂).
Tyranitar used Thunderbolt.
It doesn't affect Golem...

People tend not to realise that Golem is actually pretty quick with max EV's. I expect an Ice Beam, but know I can beat him to the punch. Boah are often Quiet with 0 speed EVs.

Golem used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 45% of its health.
syntacus's Tyranitar fainted.

I know the opponent will bring out either Swampert or Gliscor next. I know that I need to remove one of the two and now's my chance.

syntacus switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ♂).
Golem used Explosion.
Swampert lost 100% of its health.
syntacus's Swampert fainted.
LMR's Golem fainted.

LMR switched in Sharpedo (lvl 100 Sharpedo ♂).
syntacus switched in Gliscor (lvl 100 Gliscor ♂).
Sharpedo used Ice Beam.
It's super effective!
Gliscor lost 100% of its health.
syntacus's Gliscor fainted.

Take advantage of the unpredictablity as mentioned earlier. If people know anything about Sharpedo, they expect him to be physical.

syntacus switched in Garchomp (lvl 100 Garchomp ♂).

They also expect him to be slow.

Sharpedo used Ice Beam.
Sharpedo's attack missed!
Garchomp used Earthquake.
Sharpedo lost 59% of its health.
Garchomp was hurt by its burn!
Garchomp lost 12% of its health.

*shrugs* I'm still in control.

Sharpedo used Ice Beam.
Sharpedo's attack missed!
Garchomp used Earthquake.
Sharpedo lost 29% of its health.
LMR's Sharpedo fainted.
Garchomp was hurt by its burn!
Garchomp lost 12% of its health.

Ah...fuck. By now Garchomp is on low health, so Hitmonlee should be able to finish him with Mach Punch - always have a plan B.

LMR switched in Hitmonlee (lvl 100 Hitmonlee ♂).
Hitmonlee used Mach Punch.
Hitmonlee's attack missed!
Garchomp used Earthquake.
Hitmonlee lost 58% of its health.
Garchomp was hurt by its burn!
Garchomp lost 12% of its health.

Um...

LMR: lol @ Sand Veil ^_^

Hitmonlee used Mach Punch.
Garchomp lost 13% of its health.
syntacus's Garchomp fainted.
The sandstorm rages.

Gotcha.

syntacus switched in Cradily (lvl 100 Cradily ♂).
LMR switched in Muk (lvl 100 Muk ♂).
Cradily used Stone Edge.
Muk lost 30% of its health.

Hitmonlee is locked into Mach Punch, so I decide to keep him alive in order to come back in later and guarantee the OHKO with CC. Don't take unnecesary risks. Some UU Pokemon are so fragile, that sometimes sacrifices must be made. I expect it to be the Toxic/Energy Ball variants and switch in Muk.

Muk used Substitute.
Muk lost 25% of its health.
Muk made a substitute!
Cradily used Stone Edge.
The substitute took damage for Muk!
Muk's substitute faded!

I scouted for EQ, then decice to attempt to Poison him.

Muk used Poison Jab.
Cradily lost 24% of its health.
Cradily used Stone Edge.
Muk lost 32% of its health.

Muk used Poison Jab.
A critical hit!
Cradily lost 48% of its health.
Cradily used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around your foe's team!

I dedice to continue trying to Poison it...Cradily does not like being Poisoned at all.

Muk used Poison Jab.
Cradily lost 27% of its health.
Cradily used Recover.
Cradily restored 50% of its health.

Cradily is still at around 50%, and I know it will try to Recover again.

Muk is tightening its focus!
Cradily used Recover.
Cradily restored 31% of its health.
Muk used Focus Punch.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Cradily lost 100% of its health.
syntacus's Cradily fainted.
LMR wins!
LMR: gg
syntacus has left the room.

Final score: 4-0

This hasn't been approved as I'm not posting it as a warstory perse, just as an aid to somebody seeking advice. I'd also reccomend reading some of Bologo's warstories for more advice.
 
How about you make a mixed team? Not all OU, but not all UU/BL...that way, your team will be balanced, and you will have a pretty good chance at winning, and not having all the Pokemon in your team fit into the OU tier. Just an idea.
 

Bologo

Have fun with birds and bees.
is a Contributor Alumnus
Ohhh, so you're LMR. Haha, I was wondering who that was. I think I might actually post a warstory pretty soon with my new team, its had many many awesome battles. This is a pretty good battle though, awesome prediction skills, and really that truly is all it takes to win with these guys.

Heh, that Golem is extremely annoying, seriously. That team is almost perfectly tailored so it can tangle with the standards.

I have a lot of NU shit in my team that I can somehow make work with prediction, but most of the time I just put 6 crappier pokemon together, but then tweak from there.

I'm thinking I should make a guide with niches for all of the lesser used pokemon so they could be used in OU. I don't know about that right now since it's around midterm, but if it seems like an interesting idea, I can probably chip away at it, or just do it in one big session or something.

Heh, Yoko Rains, that's exactly what I do. I usually go 1 OU/2 BL/3 UU on my team, but only BL/UU can be subbed in for OU, and only UU can be subbed in for the 2 BL spots. It's like the Smorgasboard tourney we had here before in the ADV generation, quite fun I may add.
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
This is a pretty good battle though, awesome prediction skills, and really that truly is all it takes to win with these guys.
Heh, that Golem is extremely annoying, seriously. That team is almost perfectly tailored so it can tangle with the standards.
Thanks...I've had some great battles with this team and pulled of some big upsets. This match was fairly straightforward. The opponent was pretty good, but he made a few bad decisions. I've also lost quite a few matches as well though, but such is the curse of mono-UU teams in OU. I'm sure you know what I mean. No matter how badly I lose though, I'm usually smiling because it's so fun. ^_^ Having said all that though, I've won a lot more than I've lost.

I'm thinking I should make a guide with niches for all of the lesser used pokemon so they could be used in OU. I don't know about that right now since it's around midterm, but if it seems like an interesting idea, I can probably chip away at it, or just do it in one big session or something.
Heh, I can't wait to read that one. If you need any help, or even just want me to cover a few Pokemon, please PM me.

It's always so amusing to battle you, because I think I'm in control then all of a sudden I'm fucking Encored or Tricked or something. I was actually sat at my computer in hysterics that a Lopunny was doing that to me.
 
wow lee, thats rather...amazing. and i laughed about the cradily-poison thing; i never knew that, but i poisoned an annoying cradily in a battle earlier today and won ^_^

im usually pretty good at predicting the opponents move; some ground-rock-obvious person is gona earthquake my Drapion so i switch to Crobat or something. Or some annoying fish-bugger is gona surf my Nidoqueen so i pull out my Dry Skin Toxicroak. Prediction is a key factor in any batle, just even more so in a battle where you have a disadvantage.
 

Bologo

Have fun with birds and bees.
is a Contributor Alumnus
Yeah, prediction on the defensive is important, such as making important switches, but prediction on the offensive is just as, if not more important.

This is why I really like Focus Punch. If you're looking to increase your offensive prediction skills, then that is the move for you. Honestly, my Ampharos and Lopunny can destroy the switch-ins with it. Lopunny busts up those annoying HP Fight Porygon-Z that come into it. Ampharos messes up Blissey and Magnezone.

If you can predict that your opponent is going to switch, and you want to predict what they'll switch to, and you're actually right, then you've got a lot of skill. For instance, I sometimes use Earthquake on Gliscor once my opponent finds out I have Ice Shard. I know that I run the risk of doing absolutely nothing that round since Earthquake obviously doesn't affect Gliscor, but I have a gut feeling that it will switch, and if it does, whatever comes in that is going to try and take an ice attack will be getting smacked by a STAB Earthquake from 120 base attack.

Another thing I use major offensive prediction for is my Magcargo. I made up a moveset and EV spread that allows it to force switches like a champ, but also take hits like one, especially if the opponent has a sandstorm up, and to keep on doing it. It even takes STAB Earthquakes from many things. --> Essentially what it does is abuse its great double-statusing ability, plus support.

Ok, so with Magcargo, I can switch it in on shit like Flare Blitz, fire punch, or pretty much any physical move that it doesn't have a 2348237948x weakness to, and the opponent will usually switch out, especially if it's something Mag-C resists (gotta admit, that bad typing does have a lot of good resists), and then I Yawn the predicted switch, then they switch out again or go to sleep. Or, while they're sleeping, or switching, I use Light Screen to support my team. If they switch, I can also use Lava Plume to have a burn chance. A lot of the time, what happens is people forget that Magcargo even has Flame Body. If I switch it in on a physical attack, the enemy has a 30% chance of getting burned. If I predict them staying in and use Lava Plume, and they use a physical attack on me, they have now doubled that burn chance to 60% because Lava Plume has 30% and Flame Body has 30%. I can just keep on trying this most of the time and sometimes I can even stall them out with Recover. Magcargo also resists Explosion, so coupled with huge defense, it won't usually be getting KOed by it and if I predict Explosion I will just recover and their efforts will have been in vain.

Needless to say, I now really like Magcargo, that guy is nifty. Stop hating on the lump of crud everyone!
 
Real nitpicky of me: 30% + 30% != 60%. Instead you multiply the odds of them NOT getting burned (7/10)^2 which is 49/100 or right at 50%. Hell, that's a WoW against Sand Veil... :O

If you are considering a UUseful! niche handbook I'd love to write some stuff. Niches are by far and away my favorite subject in pokemon, finding use for things that people think are useless.
 
I second Dragon Dance Lapras. It's actually REALLY easy to set up considering it can tank stuff REALLY well. With Sing (if it hits), it can wreck havok on a team. I've owned OU teams with Lapras.
 
Banette its good for UU it can compete a bit in OU with some good OU team beside it
... and Banette doesn't need to be surrounded by good OU to compete. Check out my last war story to see ...

Oh by the way Lee I'm stealing your team for a bit (only subbing Golem for Leafeon hope you don't mind.)
 
Just a thought though since so much of the talk has been revolving more about efficient team building its probably a good idea if you read up on 'team synergy'. I recall there being a good article on it which is related to this but I can't remember if its in the contributions section or was nuked with the old site.
 

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