Metagame Fortemons

KaenSoul

Shared:Power Little Knight
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Community Leader
Heat Rock and Damp Rock have been banned!
PonchlakeKaenSoulKennChromate
Heat RockBanBanBanBan
Damp RockBanBanBanBan
Icy RockDo Not BanDo Not BanDo Not BanDo Not Ban
Smooth RockDo Not BanDo Not BanDo Not BanDo Not Ban

As weather teams gained popularity, it become obvious there wasn't much that could be done to fight them back, between Swift Swimmers, Proto, Weather Ball and other weather abusers there were too many to answer, and we believe that limiting the amount of turns they have to sweep should be enough to keep them under control.
That should be for now.
 

KaenSoul

Shared:Power Little Knight
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Community Leader
Now let's discuss HOME, so we are prepared for when it releases next year, starting with the "most likely end ups banned right away".
I'm going to assume no transfer moves to not be the whole night writing.

:magearna:
This thing would be beyond broken with Draining Kiss, broken with Charge Beam and kinda broken with a regular set, don't think is worth our time.
:regieleki:
Don't use Electro Ball, just don't, is a waste. Rapid Spin, Charge Beam and Thunder Cage are actually good options, but just the fact that Tera is legal in this format may be enough to break it, it could be worth giving it a chance, but don't really expect it to be balanced when even if it fails to grab the KO with Tera, it doesn't matter because now you are trapped and taking damage from Thunder Cage.
:urshifu:
Dark gets a free CB thanks to Wicked Blow, and can still boost its Atk with SD, I don't think I have to explain how broken is that, but here is a calc that should demonstrate my point:
+2 252+ Atk Urshifu Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Enamorus-Therian on a critical hit: 145-171 (41.1 - 48.5%)
Sturdiest Fairy in the game gets 2HKO if there are rocks, and if Urshi tera into a Fairy resist then there is not coming back, it can also just Iron Head, but I doubt it would be worth giving up on Sucker Punch, is always an option on non-SD sets tho.
Water could be fine, Multi hit moves are restricted by default, but it could abuse Trailblaze and get +3 Speed after a single Surging Strike, Rock Smash to force every corv to be Mirror Armor or some bulky set up with Draining Punch BU.
:sneasler:
Dire Claw is a silly move and in combination with U-turn it becomes the ultimate status spreader, it kind of makes you forget it also has Trailblaze and Rock Smash. You could also get away with something gimmicky with Venoshock as it pairs well with Poison Touch, you should still carry TSpikes somewhere in the team.
:hoopa-unbound:
This thing may end up being balanced because it got a quite lackluster movepool, but it does actually get one move that is actually good for the format in Drain Punch, so it may actually be quite good, and I could regret giving it a chance.
:zapdos-galar:
Thunderous Kick makes sure nothing but Mirror Armor Corv can switch into this thing, combined with U-turn it can enable some nasty offensive cores, it also gets Trailblaze but that's kind of whatever compared to the sheer utility of TKick.
:spectrier:
It got two strong options on Draining Kiss and Hex, and is pretty much Flutter Mane minus the fairy typing, but it doesn't die to neutral priority, so it may actually be a much better Drain Kisser. There just aren't enough good Normals to check it that are worth using other than Ursaluna (who may end up being broken on its own).
:lilligant-hisui:
At least you can't equip status moves, but that doesn't mean the Victory Dancer will not find a niche, Giga Drain gives it some good longevity, and that should be its only set unless you really want to use Rain Hurricane + Hustle, doesn't sound very viable with the recent Damp Rock ban but is a thing I guess.
:ursaluna:
Holding Facade means you can't hold Flame Orb, so moving to the actual sets, Drain Punch enables some bulky set stuff that may end up being too much with how bulky this thing is, Trailblaze is interesting but is very very slow so it will not be outspeeding any scarfers anytime soon.
:enamorus::enamorus-therian:
Draining Kiss is one of the best fortes, Superpower can also be an interesting forte thanks to Contrary, but then you need to use special moves to hit steels. Base may end up being broken, but Therian may be a nice tank with DKiss and could use CM sets quite well, but the SR weakness hurts a lot if you don't carry HDB.
:mew:
I'm just going to list options, they are all viable enough: Draining Kiss, Hex, Body Press, Flame Charge, Acid Spray, Body Slam, Slude Bomb, Fire Spin, Ancient Power, Bulldoze, Charge Beam, may even use Foul Play.
:zamazenta-crowned:
Regular can use the now classic Body Press forte + Iron Defense combo, meanwhile crowned is stuck with a shield on its head, silly dog. So yeah, we could allow crowned without much problem.
:braviary-hisui:
Esper Wing is trailblaze with an extra crit chance and no contact, paired with Tinted Lens and decent stats it may be enough to be broken, but it may end up being just decent, Psychic/Flying has too many common weaknesses and the starting speed is kind of lacking.
:basculegion:
Wouldn't be surprised if Forte Last Respect is enough to break Basculin-White, so expect Houndstone to be unbanned.
:samurott-hisui:
Ceaseless Edge is a broken move, specially paired with Sharpness, I kind of fear it may lack defensive counterplay, but it should be good wallbreaker at beast, it doesn't have the stats to do much against any kind of offensive team.
:kleavor:
If this thing has been giving anything as a counterpart to Scizor's Bullet Punch it would actually be decent, so you could set SR with priority with something better than fucking Quick Attack, it got one of the worst type combinations in the game and won't be switching into a lot of stuff because of that, is at least fast enough to outspeed relevant stuff like Gholdengo, so it may still be decent enough, STAB U-turn boosted by Sharpness coming from 135 base Atk that sets SR on hit can't be bad, right?
:slowking-galar:
This has many options, Drain Punch may be good, Acid Spray seems great on it, Hex is always good, status spreading on Sludge Bomb and Body Slam, Snarl is a decent option too. Even Eerie Spell may be good, as is not limited to 8 uses and can actually win any pp war with it.
:azelf:
This is the only format where Mystical Power isn't just a bad cover of Torch Song, +1 SpA on each hit on something with 125 SpA and good offensive movepool is quite promising, still has paper bulk and the speed isn't as impressive as it was back in the day, but it should be a decent cleaner.
:heatran:
Flame Charge, Magma Storm that doesn't miss, or Body Press + Iron Defense, Heatran is a great mon to no one's surprise. It also has Ancient Power + Rock Blast if you are feeling lucky.
:landorus-therian: :landorus:
Smack Down seems like a decent budget Thousand Arrows, it also has a new signature move named Sandsear Storm, is not great but as a forte it gives a 20% chance to burn, so between that, Sludge Bomb and Body Slam it should be a good option for status spam. Bulldoze is also good enough speed control when paired with U-turn. Base form may be broken with Life Orb like usual.
:decidueye-hisui:
You can't equip Triple Arrows because it has a Flinch Chance, but that doesn't mean you can't do anything with this owl, it has some nice options between Giga Drain and Trailblaze, thanks to Bullet Seed it could get at least +2 speed with trail right away and then spam arrows to be a fearsome wall breaker and sweeper.
:rillaboom:
Another Grass type Trailblaze wall breaker slash sweeper, Wood Hammer under Grassy Terrain is scary enough to give it a niche over Deci. Also gets Giga Drain like every other grass type, I don't need to tell you that.
:typhlosion-hisui:
Infernal Parade is a cooler Hex that could allow it to be a decent wall breaker that just rage quits to nacl. Flame Charge and Fire Spin are nice too.
:overqwil:
Similar, but it can actually hit nacl, it also gets Fell Stinger and Swift Swim that may actually be a balanced combo in a no Damp Rock format.
:diancie:
May be decent thanks to Diamond Storm and Body Press, Draining Kiss is also an option, but the typing kind of holds it back.
:goodra-hisui:
Absorb is good enough recovery and it has Body Press + Acid Armor for a basic combo. Acid Spray is also an option, but doesn't look like the best user.
:arcanine-hisui:
Flame Charge is a thing, but may prefer Choice Band on this one. Wish it had SD, Howl is lame. Oh, it can also use Forte Tera Blast for Rock-Type extreme speed, thats cool.
:glastrier:
World's slowest horse may actually win a race with Trailblaze, but the initial speed is sad, so is not likely to do well with that much competition.
:meloetta:
Convince everyone Relic Song is broken so we can restrict sleep chances instead of banning Sneasler, no idea if it triggers the transformation. Looks bad outside of sleep hax. Oh, wait Serene Grace is banned, so this mon would be illegal anyway, never mind.
 
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ponchlake

cult of personality cult leader
KaensoulPonchlakeKennChromate
Single Item/Forte ClauseYesYesYesYes

After a fair amount of discussion, the council has voted for the implementation of a single item or Forte clause. Fairly self-explanatory here but we wanted to limit the use of commonly used and powerful Forte's like Draining Kiss and Body Press without having to directly hit them. We figured a good indirect nerf would be making it so that a team can only run one of it at a time.

Kris to implement
 
Great Tusk @ knockoff
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner
- Stone Edge

I think this set could add a boost to most pokemon, but this is my one

Gallade @ sacredsword
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Shadow Claw

both samurott-Hisui and gallade benifit from this
 

ponchlake

cult of personality cult leader
U-Turn is Unrestricted in Fortemons
KaensoulPonchlakeKennChromate
Unrestrict U-TurnYesYesYesYes

Following our discussion on the single Forte clause, we've decided to hold a vote on whether or not U-Turn could be freed. We will hold off on Volt Switch and may discuss the potential of freeing it later. In the meantime, we want to ease into that with unrestricting U-Turn first as to avoid bringing back VoltTurn mayhem cores that led to Volt Switch and U-Turn getting restricted in the first place.

Kris to implement
 
I encountered a pretty significant bug not too long ago. Not sure if it should belong in the bug report thread instead, but since it has to do with this format specifically, I felt like posting it here.

The bug happened today in a roomtour where my Glimmora (holding Mortal Spin) caused the battle to crash.
Replay of it happening here: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-1923500449


Then I went and investigated a bit, trying out different item-moves against Substitutes.

Replay 1: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-1923519274-2o3tikvdu88dd4titupfd8te8p5f1i8pw
Rapid Spin also causes the crash.

Replay 2: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-1923522590-0dxzxguya5tbep1y8rqwd8w1nxi9mqlpw
Moves that alter damage calculation in some way (tested with Body Press and Gyro Ball), do not cause the crash, and neither do item-moves that don't do anything.
Ceaseless Edge however, causes a crash.

Replay 3: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-1923527725-dabolsoz8g6iwkfx934xtcff1kdhjvxpw
Moves that cause stat raises or drops are safe (tested with Trailblaze and Bulldoze), which implies that Rapid Spin's hazard clearing property is a culprit. Moves that can inflict status also seem to be safe (tested with Infernal Parade for several turns), which again points at the hazard removal portion of Mortal Spin as the underlying issue.

Replay 4: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-1923545307-oq7bd4uwfq6pyeo0qbc9v92xy8qsvl3pw
Ice Spinner also behaves incorrectly, as it does not clear the Electric Terrain when hitting a Substitute.
Meanwhile, Infiltrator Rapid Spin works correctly and prevents the crash from happening, for what it's worth.
Lastly, Stone Axe crashed the battle as expected.


Thus, if I understand correctly:

Attacking a Substitute with item-moves that affect the field (like those that set and remove hazards) does not work as intended and can cause battles to crash.

So, uh, tread with care. Seems like trying to spin is not a good trick this time...
 

ponchlake

cult of personality cult leader
:SV/Azumarill: :SV/Dialga-Origin: :SV/Giratina-Origin:
Azumarill, Dialga-O, and Giratina-O are unbanned. Shaymin-Sky and Darkrai are banned, and Grassy Glide and Heat Crash are restricted
With the DLC coming out, we're gonna experiment a bit with the meta. Dialga and Giratina are item locked and don't have any particularly great set-up moves that could make them overwhelming on paper, so we're going to free them just to spice things up. Azumarill may end up being a problem like it was before, but like Dialga and Giratina, we're just experimenting and the three will be on a watchlist.

:SV/Shaymin-Sky: :SV/Darkrai:
Shaymin-Sky only has Serene Grace as an ability, and Serene Grace was previously banned already. And Darkrai is Darkrai..

Heat Crash and Grassy Glide will be restricted for consistency reasons, as we've previously banned priority and BP scaling moves already.

Kris to implement
 
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:SV/Azumarill: :SV/Dialga-Origin: :SV/Giratina-Origin:
Azumarill, Dialga-O, and Giratina-O are unbanned. Shaymin-Sky and Darkrai are banned, andi Grassy Glide and Heat Crash are restricted
With the DLC coming out, we're gonna experiment a bit with the meta. Dialga and Giratina are item locked and don't have any particularly great set-up moves that could make them overwhelming on paper, so we're going to free them just to spice things up. Azumarill may end up being a problem like it was before, but like Dialga and Giratina, we're just experimenting and the three will be on a watchlist.

:SV/Shaymin-Sky: :SV/Darkrai:
Shaymin-Sky only has Serene Grace as an ability, and Serene Grace was previously banned already. And Darkrai is Darkrai..

Heat Crash and Grassy Glide will be restricted for consistency reasons, as we've previously banned priority and BP scaling moves already.

Kris to implement
Grassy Glide (at least for now) doesn't give priority if it's in the item slot https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-1943946993
(used here with custom rules)
 

KaenSoul

Shared:Power Little Knight
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Community Leader
DLC hype lets see what new toys we got!

:ninetales: :ninetales-alola:
While Aurora Veil offense is cool and all, I'm more interested on actually using Ninetales offensively, thanks to Weatherball both formes now get some silly damage outputs, just remember that all your moves become the corresponding type so they don't get to use any coverage at all, this hurts the Kanto version the most as Flash Fire exists.

:clefable:
While powercreep make it look less impressive now, it still has one of the best movepools in the series, as for Forte relevant stuff you got Draining Kiss, Charge Beam, Chilling Water and Body Slam we could free stored power too... all of these give it a fair boost to all its common sets, so I can't imagine it being bad.

:ambipom:
New Skill Link mon, is not as cool as Cloyster, but it has some nice tools, Trailblaze, Thunder and Iron Tails gives a 30% chance to drop Def with each hit, so it can be difficult to check, or it would it if actually could deal damage to common steel types, will be annoying for sure tho.

:leavanny:
New Fell Stinger user, there is also Ariados but that one is even worse somehow, don't expect Leavanny to be good, but it can be a cool cleaner if you have some speed control support, is also SR weak in a format where you don't want to run boots.

:chandelure:
Flame Charge, Hex and Fire Spin are all great tools, don't expect it to be that great as it is another rock weak mon and directly competes with Skeledirge as a Flame Charge Ghost/Fire sweeper.

:conkeldurr:
Kind of a powercreept mon but Drain Punch is cool for BU sets and there is always the meme Court Change TSpikes to trigger Facade+Guts that works once every ten games.

:dusknoir:
Finally has reliable recovery thanks to Leech Life of all things, is most likely unviable but someone will try to make it work.

:empoleon:
Mostly a utility mon, Chilling Water let it check stuff better, Body Slam is always a decent filler option on a pivot. Great mon overall even if it is not going to be trying to sweep teams.

:kommo-o:
Drain Punch makes Clangorous Soul much better so I can see this thing being actually good here.

:sinistcha: (sprite coming soon)
Matcha Gotcha sounds very cool in this format, burn + healing on every move should make it a decent tank and set up sweeper.

:torterra:
New Shell Smasher, not sure if it has the tool to be good here, maybe Smack Down so Corv can't switch into you, Giga Drain is an option too but without White Herb you aren't all that bulky so is not that great.

:ursaluna:
Ursaluna 2: The Revenge of Ursaluna seems a bit gimmicky, for whatever reason it doesn't get Drain Punch so that's not an option for bulky sets, it has Trailblaze, so it may be a cool wincon, but just like base it needs to hit at least twice to get a decent speed.

Grassy Glide (at least for now) doesn't give priority if it's in the item slot https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-1943946993
(used here with custom rules)
Even if it isn't fully coded yet, it would be banned as soon as it gets fixed, so no need to delay the announcement (and we also don't even need to fix it now).
 
This seems like a funny set:

:SV/Fezandipiti:
Fezandipiti @ Hex
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 36 SpD / 160 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tail Slap
- Play Rough
- Roost
- U-turn / Lash Out / Double Kick / Taunt

Tail Slap comes with a near-guaranteed chance to poison thanks to Toxic Chain. Fezandipiti gets to hit surprisingly hard for a wall with the Hex Forte. EVs are to outspeed max. Speed Baxcalibur and survive Offensive Gholdengo's Make It Rain with the rest in Defense to tank stuff (such as Defensive Great Tusk's Earthquake if Great Tusk were legal).
 
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DLC hype lets see what new toys we got!

:ninetales: :ninetales-alola:
While Aurora Veil offense is cool and all, I'm more interested on actually using Ninetales offensively, thanks to Weatherball both formes now get some silly damage outputs, just remember that all your moves become the corresponding type so they don't get to use any coverage at all, this hurts the Kanto version the most as Flash Fire exists.

:clefable:
While powercreep make it look less impressive now, it still has one of the best movepools in the series, as for Forte relevant stuff you got Draining Kiss, Charge Beam, Chilling Water and Body Slam we could free stored power too... all of these give it a fair boost to all its common sets, so I can't imagine it being bad.

:ambipom:
New Skill Link mon, is not as cool as Cloyster, but it has some nice tools, Trailblaze, Thunder and Iron Tails gives a 30% chance to drop Def with each hit, so it can be difficult to check, or it would it if actually could deal damage to common steel types, will be annoying for sure tho.

:leavanny:
New Fell Stinger user, there is also Ariados but that one is even worse somehow, don't expect Leavanny to be good, but it can be a cool cleaner if you have some speed control support, is also SR weak in a format where you don't want to run boots.

:chandelure:
Flame Charge, Hex and Fire Spin are all great tools, don't expect it to be that great as it is another rock weak mon and directly competes with Skeledirge as a Flame Charge Ghost/Fire sweeper.

:conkeldurr:
Kind of a powercreept mon but Drain Punch is cool for BU sets and there is always the meme Court Change TSpikes to trigger Facade+Guts that works once every ten games.

:dusknoir:
Finally has reliable recovery thanks to Leech Life of all things, is most likely unviable but someone will try to make it work.

:empoleon:
Mostly a utility mon, Chilling Water let it check stuff better, Body Slam is always a decent filler option on a pivot. Great mon overall even if it is not going to be trying to sweep teams.

:kommo-o:
Drain Punch makes Clangorous Soul much better so I can see this thing being actually good here.

:sinistcha: (sprite coming soon)
Matcha Gotcha sounds very cool in this format, burn + healing on every move should make it a decent tank and set up sweeper.

:torterra:
New Shell Smasher, not sure if it has the tool to be good here, maybe Smack Down so Corv can't switch into you, Giga Drain is an option too but without White Herb you aren't all that bulky so is not that great.

:ursaluna:
Ursaluna 2: The Revenge of Ursaluna seems a bit gimmicky, for whatever reason it doesn't get Drain Punch so that's not an option for bulky sets, it has Trailblaze, so it may be a cool wincon, but just like base it needs to hit at least twice to get a decent speed.


Even if it isn't fully coded yet, it would be banned as soon as it gets fixed, so no need to delay the announcement (and we also don't even need to fix it now).
:dipplin: I think Syrup Bomb sounds interesting as a support move as well, but without Eviolite, we may have to wait for DLC2 where this thing evolves for it to be viable.

:cramorant-gulping: how does surf work in the ability slot? does every move make it go gluck gluck?
 
Zapdos-galar got Dual Wingbeat in the dlc.
This gives it with a thunderous kick forte a effective 100bp flying move that half the opposing Pokemon's defense making it very hard to wall and switch into.
Zapdos-Galar @ Thunderous Kick
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Low Kick/close combat
- Dual Wingbeat
- Stomping Tantrum/u-turn
- Bulk Up/u-turn
 

ponchlake

cult of personality cult leader
1695593945829.png

Skeledirge is banned in Fortemons
KaensoulPonchlakeKennChromate
SkeledirgeYesYesYesYes

With Flame Charge in the Item slot, Skeledirge could scale up in both SpA an Spe while doing increasing amounts of damage each time. This combination allowed Skeledirge to become too threatening far too quickly, allowing it to snowball out of control quite easily. This doesn't take into account Tera, which could be used to further snowball or simply get you in a winning position in the first place. Unaware is also a great ability in Fortemons, which also gave Skeledirge very decent defensive MU's by ignoring boosts even while fully invested in SpA/Spe. Skeledirge was always good, but with Damp Rock's ban it has become quite noticeable just how strong it is really is. As a result, we've voted on it and the result is that it will be banned.

Kris to implement
 
Zapdos-galar got Dual Wingbeat in the dlc.
This gives it with a thunderous kick forte a effective 100bp flying move that half the opposing Pokemon's defense making it very hard to wall and switch into.
Zapdos-Galar @ Thunderous Kick
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Low Kick/close combat
- Dual Wingbeat
- Stomping Tantrum/u-turn
- Bulk Up/u-turn
Sadly, I think dual wingbeat is banned
 
All of this mon's attacks end up being priority moves thanks to how its Forte interacts with its ability...right?

:SV/Comfey:
Comfey @ Giga Drain
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Steel / Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Alluring Voice / Draining Kiss
- Calm Mind
- Synthesis
- Stored Power / Tera Blast

Here's another Rapid Spin Forte mon. Actually, if it Terastallizes, it might end up ban-worthy (although you do lose out on Terastallizing someone else in this snowbally meta).

:SV/Terapagos: / :SV/Terapagos-Terastal:
Terapagos @ Rapid Spin
Ability: Tera Shift
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tera Starstorm
- Dark Pulse
- Stealth Rock / Flamethrower / Earth Power / Aura Sphere
- Calm Mind

For rain teams only. Too bad this can't set rain for itself.

:SV/Archaludon:
Archaludon @ Electro Shot
Ability: Stamina / Sturdy
Tera Type: Dragon / Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
- Aura Sphere
- Thunder Wave / Thunder / Dark Pulse

Screw healing Fortes. The +2 priority move should also prevent Azumarill's Aqua Jet from healing it. Outspeeds Electrode-H without needing priority.

:SV/Deoxys-Speed:
Deoxys-Speed @ Psychic Noise
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 84 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Zen Headbutt
- Stomping Tantrum
- Stealth Rock / Recover / Teleport

EDIT: Yeah, screw healing Fortes completely - the entire Draining Kiss Forte Aqua Jet should be blocked:
 
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ponchlake

cult of personality cult leader
:SV/Emboar:
Heat Crash and Hard Press are restricted in Fortemons
Variable damage moves strike again in Fortemons. This time it's Hard Press and Heat Crash potentially granting you 120BP to your priority and multi-hit moves. Heat Crash avoided a ban the first time around due to its lack of distribution, but with the release of Indigo Disk it's become common enough to be a problem.

Both of these will be banned but with that said, we will be taking another look at multi-hit moves. I believe that with Heat Crash and Hard Press gone, they'll go back to being managable for the time being. That said they are always ripe for abuse due to the tier's gimmick. For that reason we'll be keeping an eye out on those once again for the near future.

Kris poke
 

ponchlake

cult of personality cult leader
:SV/Dragonite: :SV/Darkrai:
Terastallization is banned. Darkrai and Dragonite are unbanned in Fortemons

With the release of DLC and Stellar, we're finally giving Tera the banhammer. I feel like this may have been long overdue for some people, but we're at a point now where it's hard to justify keeping it around. We're going to be unbanning Dragonite as a result since it was banned primarily for its interactions with Tera Blast.

Kris poke
 

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
:SV/Azumarill: :SV/Dialga-Origin: :SV/Giratina-Origin:
Azumarill, Dialga-O, and Giratina-O are unbanned. Shaymin-Sky and Darkrai are banned, and Grassy Glide and Heat Crash are restricted
With the DLC coming out, we're gonna experiment a bit with the meta. Dialga and Giratina are item locked and don't have any particularly great set-up moves that could make them overwhelming on paper, so we're going to free them just to spice things up. Azumarill may end up being a problem like it was before, but like Dialga and Giratina, we're just experimenting and the three will be on a watchlist.

:SV/Shaymin-Sky: :SV/Darkrai:
Shaymin-Sky only has Serene Grace as an ability, and Serene Grace was previously banned already. And Darkrai is Darkrai..

Heat Crash and Grassy Glide will be restricted for consistency reasons, as we've previously banned priority and BP scaling moves already.

Kris to implement
I know this is an old post in September 2023, but…

How could Dialga-O and Giratina-O are allowed for this metagame while Palkia-O remained banned despite also having to hold their Lustrous Core? Were 120 Speed and 150 Special Attack alone makes it too much for the metagame despite not having reliable set-ups?
 
Hey you! Wanna make any player that has the misfortune of playing against you instantly want to reach through their screen to throttle you without having to resort to hard stall? Well do I have the mon for you, it's CINCCINO!

DEMON (Cinccino) @ Chilling Water

Ability: Skill Link

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- Tail Slap

- Rock Blast

- Bullet Seed

- Triple Axel

Basically it does Cincciono-things.tm, mostly using Skill Link and it's bevy of multi hit moves.

But the kicker is what you can add onto those Multi hit moves. Chilling Water alone means you can lower your opponent's Attack by 5 stages in one turn. You can also swap Chilling Water for either Gunk Shot or Thunder for that 30% chance to Poison / Paralyze, or maybe Trailblaze to instantly turn the Speed match-up on it's head. Could also swap one of the Multi-Hit Moves for U-Turn if you wanna preserve momentum a bit, or Trailblaze if you really want to have something to let it stay competitive with the faster mons.

Do I think this will be amazing? Probably not. But it will probably be annoying as hell to deal with for the unprepared.

Also this goes without saying, but do not use the Chilling Water set while a Defiant / Contary mon is still ready to go on your opponent's team. That is asking to get swept.

Also we have Metagross back, and it gets Trailblaze, possibly a good option if you want insurance against getting cheesed by Comfey.
 

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