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Metagame Fortemons

Riolu is basically a "guess the move I'm gonna click, and if you guess wrong you'll be phased.", which is what makes it uncompetitive. Even dark types aren't really safe, as you can predict the switch, go for sub and then just click drain punch for decent chip. Here is the set with replays:

riolu.gif

Riolu @ circlethrow
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Copycat
- Protect
- Substitute
- Drain Punch

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2482142254
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2482070097
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2482061999
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2481570551

Another interesting mon that makes good use of phasing is Milotic. It can elevate the negative priority to 0 with Rest/talk, while making good use of its Marvel Scale buff, in addition to getting a double switch with Flip Turn. Here's a set that worked for me so far:

milotic.gif

Milotic @ dragontail
Ability: Marvel Scale
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Flip Turn
- Alluring Voice

Hardly needs exp. Can phase behind subs, or help you gain massive momentum with Flip Turn.
I remember facing you on ladder and getting beaten by that very same Riolu, so I'm glad I wasn't one of the replays LOL. It was a big wake-up call, and I haven't lost to one since then, but man, it's scary each time I face one.

Also, I'm such a huge fan of Dragon Tail Forte Milotic to the point that it has helped me build a few sets around the premise of Phase Turning. Currently, I have been using Mew as my go to phase turner since it has access to a plethora of setup and hazards. My favorite use so far is having it set Trick Room, then using the massive momentum you get to bring in the right Abuser( particularly :Ursaluna: ).

mew.gif

Mew @ dragontail
Ability: Synchronize
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Trick Room / Taunt / Will-o-Wisp / Thunder Wave / Pain Split
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock / Taunt / Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Alluring Voice / Volt Switch / Misty Explosion

As a TR setter, it does have a few flaws, mainly being its Ghost, Dark, and U-turn weaknesses, so it does need to pick the right time to come in cause it really struggles with mons like Pult, Gambit, and Darkrai. Alternatively, it can run 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 Spe with a speed boosting nature so that it can outspeed and taunt other taunters or hazard setters such as Landorus, no boosts Excadrill, and Tinkaton. Losing the bulk does mean your match-ups become stricter, but this spread does give it some survivability, as it can always survive 2 EQs from Jolly Landorus or Excadrills, letting you always set up TR on them after a taunt. For the last move, Alluring Voice is always great for the same reasons detailed in your post, but you can also elect to run Volt Turn so that you don't proc Toxic Debris with Phase Turning or Misty Explosion for Retaliate fortes and even better chip versus Dark types.

And the best part, you can take everything I said about setting trick room and apply it to other strategies like hazard setting or status spreading. You can even keep the same EV spreads I mentioned or change them around, like going full Spdef. I've even used it as a gravity and rain setter with mixed results, but that shows just how much it can do.
 
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So we need to talk about the elephant in the room with forte....
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No not you Copperajah it's not your time to shine go back to Tier Shift
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Yes thank you Cyclizar... So as you know there was a certain du-
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Yes this thing....got banned for terrorizing the tier with it's deadly Rapid Spin Forte+Aqua Step/Triple Axel combo it can easily get plus 2/3 speed with just one attack and SD the turn after or before to break through targets such as Alo but we're not here to talk about this we are all thankful this things gone...HOWEVER we are now left with a HUGE issue with no good solution. What do we do about hazard control. Because Iron Treads, Terapagos, Great Tusk, Quaquademon are all banned. Which leaves us with Glimmora and we all know this mfer is NOT filling those shoes not fast enough to be a threat, not bulky enough to come in multiple times. So what else do we have? Oh Donphan the best spinner in the world? No absolutely not this mon is a bootleg tusk at absolute best and primarina food otherwise, same issues as glimm only not as bad at least it has sturdy but too slow for the spin boost to matter and pure ground? Big yikes for an offensive spinner. Who's next Sandslash? No neither Aslash or Kslash are filling the spinner slot whatsoever. Which leaves us with Cyclizar? Nope same issues as before it's got the speed sure but that's the last thing it needs...it doesn't have the power to do what needs to be done and even with regen it's not nearly bulky enough to come in and effortlessly remove hazards I will say uturn and spin in one move is a bonus but immediately thrown out the window because you're throwing out the speed boost to remove hazards once? Only for them to get em right back up? Real cool...so Cyc doesn't work, Donphans not strong enough or fast enough, Glimms not catching any eyes and the rest of the spinners are so bad it's not worth mentioning. So that leaves us with Eleki as a spinner? No this doesn't work long term either because while eleki can hit hard the moment a ground type comes in it's useless and it can't spin on ghost types ESPECIALLY ground ghost types albeit this isn't even what eleki does it spams big hits like giga impact/hyper beam supercell slam etc. You get the point, regardless something needs to be done about the haz removal issue because defog ain't it, don't get me started on that issue cause all the joggers that would normally be good rather do something else. I propose we ban spin as a forte so we can bring back mons like Great Tusk and MAYBE terapagos although don't hold your breathe on that mon, but I'm not done yet I also propose we ban Body Press as a forte so we can also have treads back. This will give us viable spinners back, reduce the MASSIVE mixed attacked pandemic going on AND it would start to balance out the insanity of the meta going on right now.
 
Im still relearning the meta but theres a couple of mons that seem to do okay for hazard control-

:corviknight: Corvi@Body Press seems like an alright defogger- it can still do the exact same idef set with monoattacking air slash since steel only offers a way through clef and nothing otherwise, but if youre looking for haz removal its greedy to expect it to also be the top sweeper in the tier.

:hatterene: Hatterene@Draining Kiss also seems like good prevention of hazards, as long as you once again dont go greedy and expect it to also be an insane sweeper- saving it for the haz matchup it seems to have a pretty good matchup into a lot of setters and able to outlast them.

:excadrill: :tentacruel: With unblockable rapid spin on Exca and Tentacruel it seems like there is actually more hazard removal options here than in OU, not to say that the options are exciting or varied but it seems to be there.. Id list a couple more mons too but I think theyd prob get picked at for being even less exciting than the above 2. If you got rid of them for Great Tusk I think you'd end up with less removal options and also Great Tusk seems to have a harder time against ghost type walls like Sinistcha or Houndstone here, so it might end up harder. I dunno.

Im not saying this because I think the meta is fine or balanced or anything. Its more of a "what more can you even do about hazard removal?".
I kinda think that Fortemons is just a chaotic metagame in which certain styles can't exactly thrive, which is the case for some metagames.. I'm not sure if there is a solution that allows this meta to have removal that resembles other tiers that also keeps up with the insane pacing of the offensive threats in the tier, because a little momentum for the opponent allows them to start clicking with a Primarina or Iron Moth and then your team will explode. Not to mention I don't think rapid spin itself is banworthy at all, and doing a weird ban for the goal of meta-shaping is a bad thing to start doing.

edit: Ive been getting frustrated but also having fun with playing the tier so far, its fun when things go right but also maddening with the number of threats you have to think about. The mons that have been consistently putting in work for me are Hatterene (draining kiss), Cobalion (body press), Iron Valiant (booster lol) and Iron Moth (acid spray). The only mon that I really hate seeing is Bloodmoon, it has basically no switchins to begin with and is already an uber, I dont know if it should be here ngl
 
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I reached #2 this month with this team https://pokepast.es/6dabe53f548f4116
It originally used Ogerpon-Wellspring instead of Alomomola.

:skarmory:
Broken Body Presser.

:lokix:
The goat. Revenge kills/cleans a ton of Pokemon in this tier, such as Darkrai, Latios, Dragapult, Excadrill, etc. Hates the fact that there are barely any viable Spinners.
First Impression + U-Turn to Regieleki or Alomomola.

:slowking-galar:
The best specially defensive wall. Thunder Wave is for speed control, primarily for Lokix. Flamethrower is a secondary check to stop the Steel Body Pressers from completely destroying me. Psychic Noise is to stop Primarina.

:latios:
Generic Charge Beam sweeper. Aura Sphere is mainly for Excadrill and Darkrai if it thinks it can OHKO Latios from full HP with Dark Pulse (it can't). Thunderbolt is for the metal birds.

:alomomola:
Best non-Body Pressing physical wall in the metagame. Rocky Helmet and Alluring Voice are to ensure that it can actually deal damage to Dragapult and pesky Body Pressers.
Flip Turn to Regieleki or Lokix.

:regieleki:
Completely busted because of Volt Switch and the only viable Spinner besides Excadrill.
Giga Impact/Thunderbolt/Extreme Speed/Rapid Spin to Lokix or Alomomola.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2489432447?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2490495789?p2

At least 5 broken Ubers (Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, Baxcalibur, Dialga-O, Regieleki, Giratina-O)
4 banned Spinners (Tusk, Treads, Terapagos, Quaq)
3 IronPressers (Skarmory, Diancie, Cobalion)
2 uncompetitive Fortes (Rollout, Ancient Power)
And 1 metagame.
 
Tbh, i do wonder- and this is mainly just a curiosity thing - but are the fortes here that are 'restricted' due to balance or due to the coding not allowing it?? And if its the first thing- then: i think a 'unrestricted' custom game/challenge only format for that kind of thing could be a fun thing then. Mainly to mess around or just see what type of insane stuff would happen to that kind of meta?
 
Tbh, i do wonder- and this is mainly just a curiosity thing - but are the fortes here that are 'restricted' due to balance or due to the coding not allowing it?? And if its the first thing- then: i think a 'unrestricted' custom game/challenge only format for that kind of thing could be a fun thing then. Mainly to mess around or just see what type of insane stuff would happen to that kind of meta?
There are occasionally Fortemons AG games in Showdown's OM Mashups room (hint: Flame Charge Forte Skeledirge is not completely surprisingly good, put the last 8 EVs in Speed to outspeed Arceus at +2) with nearly no Forte restrictions.

The only moves restricted from the Forte slot due to coding reasons are multi-hit moves and Future Sight and clones - the rest are due to balance reasons. (Self-KO Fortes were being combined with Endeavor.)
 
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