From Untiereds to Ubers

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
I figure, if you want to make the triangle with Simisage, give them all the same ability (hidden ability can be changed) and the same stats.

Edit: also, I hope you guys don’t mind me asking a number of questions!
1. Are there any viable new Defoggers?
- Castform,
2. What are all new Grass-type Pokemon?
- Tropius, Simisage,
3. Are there new Pokemon that can counter Primal Groudon?
- Castform
4. Are there any viable new Pokemon that can set weather?
- Castform, Tropius,
5. Are there any strong Fighting-type Pokemon that has a base Speed higher than 100?
- Simisage,
6. Are there any new Pokemon that can counter Pheromosa effectively? Will Pheromosa be good in this new Pet Mod?
-
7. Are there any new Pokemon that outspeed Deoxys-S?
-
Thanks in advance for any answers!
Add Noctowl for Defoggers, Grass = both Cherrim forms, Carnivine, Gogoat, Maractus, Sunflora
Set weather: Remove Castform if you only mean by ability (Air Lock negates weather) - Add Stunfisk & Golem for Sandstream, Magcargo & Sunflora for Drought, Lapras for Drizzle, Wailord for Delta Stream.

Wailord is literally designed to counter Groudon.

I don’t want to go through all of them and search through the Role Compendum, but that is a start. Now, I totally agree that creating Weather Lists, checks/counters to common Pokemon like Groudon, etc. will be another helpful list to curate.

If you want to compile a list of these sorts of things, I can happily add it to the OP so people can find it on the front page. Let me know if you would like to do that.

Obviously, thats A lot to ask for 1 person, butbg asking the whole thread, each person can contribute a little and end up with a lot.

You / someone could start creating these lists and begin with:

Weather Setters:
Terrain Setters:
Weather Negation: (Air Lock / Cloud Nine)
Etc.
 
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737373elj

Banned deucer.
If you want to compile a list of these sorts of things, I can happily add it to the OP so people can find it on the front page. Let me know if you would like to do that.

Obviously, thats A lot to ask for 1 person, butbg asking the whole thread, each person can contribute a little and end up with a lot.

could start with:

Weather Setters:
Terrain Setters:
Weather Negation: (Air Lock / Cloud Nine)
Etc.
sure thing! I’ll be starting on Thursday (aka the day before Children's Day for my country!) as I still have exams on. May even start on Wednesday if I feel like it!

Edit: yeah I also mean with moves.

Edit 2: OM! you can copy the stuff I’m pasting here:

Weather Setters:
- Castform (All), Lapras (Drizzle), Wailord (Delta Stream), Stunfisk & Golem (Sandstream), Magcargo, Tropius & Sunflora (Drought).

Terrain Setters: Tapu Lele (Psychic Terrain)

Weather Negation: Castform, Rayquaza

Note: these teams are not complete! DM me if you want to submit teams!

Air Lock Castform
:Castform: :Rayquaza: :Xerneas: :Arceus-Ground: :Salamence-Mega: :Groudon-Primal:
Castform @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Tri-Attack
- Shore Up
- Hydro Pump

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
EVs:

-
-
-
-

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 168 Def / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Thunder

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs:

- Calm Mind
- Judgement
-
-

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs:

-
-
-
-

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs:

-
-
-
-

Edit 3: you know I think I overestimated myself :psysly: Lol help would be appreciated ;P
 
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Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
E21BB53D-CEE3-4D54-B303-F8578781F414.jpeg

Pokémon: Politoed
Typing: Water / Grass
Abilities: Thick Fat / Aquatic Bloom
Aquatic Bloom: 30% to trigger Rainy Weather after using Physical Grass-type attacks, 30% chance to activate Grassy Terrain after using Physical Water-type attacks. (Primordial Sea, Delta Stream, Desolate Land do not prevent Grassy Terrain). *Politoad only*
Stats: 95 / 90 / 110 / 90 / 110 / 90 (590 BST)
New Attacks: Leaf Blade, Energy Ball, Pain Split, Leech Seed, Curse, Lily Pad Leap (Remove Belly Drum)
Lily Pad Leap: Both Water & Grass-type, 50 Base Power, 100% Accuracy, Physical, Makes Contact, 16 PP. (Can gain STAB twice, if user is both types)
Lily Pad Leap Effect: “After damage, if successful, (not blocked by Desolate Land, etc.), activates Aqua Ring.”
Z-Move - Lily Pad Launch: Both Water & Grass-type; 100 Base Power, Physical, Makes Contact. “After damage, if successful, activates Ingrain. (Can gain STAB twice, if user is both types)
New Item: Waterlily -
Waterlily: Extends the duration of both Rainy Weather and Grassy Terrain to 8 turns when held by a dual Water / Grass-type or dual Grass / Water-Type.
Competitive (niche in Ubers): A passive powerhouse, Politoad’s Aquatic Bloom can trigger Weather and Terrain just by using its Water and/or Grass moves, while also healing up with Lily Pad Leap’s Aqua Ring effect in addition to Grassy Terrain. Still, with it’s most reliable recovery lying in Pain Split, it’s not able to heal as much as most.

With Waterlily extending the duration of both field effects, Politoad can maximize its team support, and improve its own base power. However, with only 90 Base Attack, it’s not going to make waves unless it triggers these effects or relies on Curse to set up.

While Lily Pad Launch is certainly a nuke, the Z-move has a major drawback of being trapped for the rest of the match, (or until defeated), thanks to Ingrain.

Nevertheless, Politoad can simply take hits if it opts for Thick Fat to make up for the lost resistances it once had as a pure Water-type. Thus, it is able to check both Kyogre and Groudon in their Primal Forms, while being able to handle Dusk-Mane’s Sunsteel Strike.

Furthered by a redundant type coverage from Water Lily Leap (Water and Grass hit Rock and Ground super effectively and not much else), while both of it’s STABS are resisted by Grass and Dragon each, Politoad must be selective on what it can use its signature move against, as it not be able to mow down just any Pokemon.

Overall, it has the bulk to stay alive and the offensive prowess to deal quality damage without going overboard.

Sets:

Politoed @ Politoadium-Z
Ability: Aquatic Bloom
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD /
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Lily Pad Leap
- Pain Split
- Ice Punch / Leech Seed

Politoed @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Pain Split
- Scald
 
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alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
At long last, the submissions that everyone’s been waiting for!

Type: Psychic
Ability: Protean
100/85/120/100/120/75 - 600

New moves: Alpha Wave, Aeroblast, Boomburst, Cosmic Power, Defog, Earth Power, Focus Blast, Glare, Heal Order, Ice Beam, Judgment, King’s Shield, Leech Seed, Moonblast, Night Daze, Overheat, Photon Geyser, Quiver Dance, Recycle, Stealth Rock, Toxic, U-Turn, Venoshock, Will-o-Wisp, X-Scissor, Yawn, Zing Zap

Alpha Wave - 90 power, 100% Accuracy, 10 PP, Psychic type, Special. 50% chance to inflict one of these effects on the opponent (chosen at random): Confusion, Curse, Leech Seed, Trapped, Infatuated, Embargo, Heal Block, Taunt, Telekinesis, Torment.

Flavor: I’ve always been disappointed with Unown. Its Pokédex entries, in-game dialogue, and the HGSS Arceus event imply that Unown in great enough numbers can warp the fabric of reality, and that’s not even getting into how ridiculous they are in the anime. We’re talking about a Pokémon that can warp reality, takes the form of writing, and has a mysterious connection to the Pokémon equivalent of God, so I designed this Unown to fit the part. Aside from its new signature move, it gains one move for each letter of the alphabet. (That’s why X-Scissor is there; it’s the only move beginning with X. If you somehow win with an X-Scissor Unown PLEASE send me the replay.) “Alpha Wave” is both a reference to Unown’s alphabet motif and its connection to Arceus, the Alpha Pokémon. I was originally going to include more moves, but I thought it would be more interesting to limit it like this—it works in terms of flavor while still giving Unown a lot of amazing options. Protean is an oblique reference to Multitype.

Competitive: Unown can serve as a support or stall Pokémon, or as a special sweeper. Protean grants it massive offensive and defensive utility, giving Unown STAB on all moves and letting it turn into better defensive types than pure Psychic. King’s Shield is especially useful on stall sets, turning Unown into a Steel-type to avoid Toxic (potentially for two turns if the opponent is faster). With Quiver Dance and a plethora of strong special attacks combined with bulk that allows it to set up on a large portion of the meta and reliable recovery to boot, Unown is a terrifying setup sweeper. It’s also got Yawn for phazing if that’s your thing, U-Turn and Volt Switch so it can act as a slow pivot, Defog for hazard/screen clearing, and more. Overall, Unown is a good and highly versatile Pokémon that fits well on stall, balance and bulky offense teams.

Type: Water/Poison
Abilities: Innards Out, Unaware
95/100/130/100/130/5 - 560

New moves: Acupressure, Aqua Ring, Destiny Bond, Disable, Encore, Glare, Gunk Shot, Haze, Infestation, Leech Seed, Metal Burst, Parting Shot, Power Trick, Rapid Spin, Scald, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Spikes, Spiky Shield, Spit Up, Sticky Web, Stockpile, Strength Sap, Topsy-Turvy, Toxic Thread, Trick, Trick Room, Venom Drench, Venoshock, Whirlpool, Yawn

Flavor: I didn’t really have any specific design ideas for Pyukumuku, I just wanted to build on the theme of it being super-passive with a lot of defensive moves while also giving it some ability to actually fight back. I also put in Gunk Shot, String Shot, Toxic Thread, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Spit Up and Sticky Web as a reference to Pyukumuku’s tendency to expel its presumably sticky and gross internal organs in response to threats.

Competitive: Pyukumuku is one of the best stallmons out there. It’s a ludicrously powerful lead, or you can just have it sit there and sponge hits all day after you remove opposing wallbreakers. It can set up Spikes, Sticky Web and Trick Room, soak up a couple hits, and Parting Shot out. Strength Sap is amazing against the many, many physical monsters Ubers has to offer, especially Primal Groudon. Unaware combined with Haze (or Topsy-Turvy if you want to be straight-up mean) stops setup sweepers in their tracks. You can even use a Power Trick set to deal out massive amounts of damage while still having respectable defenses. Pyukumuku fits best on stall teams but can also work well on balance teams and as a Sticky Web user on offense teams.

Type: Normal
Ability: RKS System v2.0 - Changes the Pokémon’s type based on the Memory, Plate or Z-Crystal it holds. [Yes, I’m aware this technically breaks the “don’t just combine two Abilities” rule but in this specific instance I think it works fine]
105/105/105/105/105/105 - 630

New moves: Aeroblast, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike, Calm Mind, Core Enforcer, Cosmic Power, Diamond Storm, Draco Meteor, Dragon Ascent, Earth Power, Earthquake, Extreme Speed, Judgment, Knock Off, Light Screen, Magma Storm, Moongeist Beam, Nature’s Madness, Oblivion Wing, Perish Song, Photon Geyser, Plasma Fists, Psystrike, Recover, Reflect, Sacred Fire, Sacred Sword, Safeguard, Searing Shot, Seed Flare, Spacial Rend, Stealth Rock, Steam Eruption, Sunsteel Strike, Taunt, Thunder, Trick, Trick Room, Whirlpool, Will-o-Wisp

Flavor: This is what I’d think an updated form of Silvally would look like if they tried the Type: Full project again with better materials. It’s got the genetic material of many Legendary and Mythical Pokémon incorporated into it, giving it access to a lot of Legendary signature moves. Also, as this is supposed to be a more accurate representation of Arceus, I gave it some of Arceus’s movepool.

Competitive: I did my best to distinguish Silvally from Arceus proper so it wasn’t entirely outclassed by Arceus and didn’t end up outclassing Arceus itself. It has access to a very, very wide variety of extremely powerful and useful moves that Arceus doesn’t get, including its native Parting Shot, with the trade-off being that it doesn’t have Arceus’s Speed, bulk or power. Even though Silvally is weaker than the Creator, it’s just as versatile, though it leans a bit more towards offense. Options like Sacred Fire, Magma Storm, Bolt Strike and Moongeist Beam make it a phenomenal physical, special or mixed attacker, and being able to take on any typing makes it capable of fitting on pretty much any team and switching in on basically anything given the right Plate or Z-Crystal (don’t use Memories unless you REALLY need Multi-Attack for some reason). Parting Shot combined with any good defensive type allows it to be one of the best pivots in the meta, and Stealth Rock and Defog give it support capability. There aren’t many teams that wouldn’t benefit from including Silvally.
 
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737373elj

Banned deucer.
Type: Normal
Ability: RKS System v2.0 - Changes the Pokémon’s type based on the Memory, Plate or Z-Crystal it holds. [Yes, I’m aware this technically breaks the “don’t just combine two Abilities” rule but in this specific instance I think it works fine]
111/111/111/111/111/111 - 666

New moves: Aeroblast, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike, Calm Mind, Core Enforcer, Cosmic Power, Crush Grip, Dark Pulse, Diamond Storm, Doom Desire, Draco Meteor, Dragon Ascent, Dream Eater, Earth Power, Earthquake, Energy Ball, Extreme Speed, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Fleur Cannon, Foul Play, Freeze Shock, Fusion Bolt, Fusion Flare, Gravity, Glaciate, Heart Swap, Hurricane, Hyperspace Hole, Hypnosis, Ice Burn, Inferno, Judgment, Knock Off, Land’s Wrath, Light of Ruin, Light Screen, Lunar Dance, Luster Purge, Magma Storm, Mind Blown, Mist Ball, Moongeist Beam, Nasty Plot, Nature’s Madness, Night Daze, Nightmare, Oblivion Wing, Ominous Wind, Origin Pulse, Overheat, Perish Song, Photon Geyser, Plasma Fists, Poison Jab, Precipice Blades, Prismatic Laser, Psycho Boost, Psystrike, Recover, Recycle, Reflect, Refresh, Relic Song, Retaliate, Revelation Dance, Roar of Time, Sacred Fire, Sacred Sword, Safeguard, Searing Shot, Secret Power, Secret Sword, Seed Flare, Shadow Force, Silver Wind, Sludge Bomb, Solar Beam, Spacial Rend, Stealth Rock, Steam Eruption, Stone Edge, Sunsteel Strike, Taunt, Techno Blast, Telekinesis, Thousand Arrows, Thousand Waves, Thunder, Torment, Trick, Trick Room, Twister, V-Create, Whirlpool, Will-o-Wisp

Flavor: I had a lot of separate concepts to work with here. This is what I’d think an updated form of Silvally would look like if they tried the Type: Full project again with better materials. Silvally was made in the image of Arceus, so I imagined this one to be sort of a false prophet/Antichrist type deal. That’s why I gave it a base stat total of 666 (it’s a Legendary so I felt like I should go above 600 for this one), and moves like Inferno, Revelation Dance, Nasty Plot and Foul Play. It’s also got the genetic material of nearly all Legendary and Mythical Pokémon incorporated into it, giving it access to almost all Legendary signature moves (except for Dark Void and Hyperspace Fury, which it can’t use, and Spectral Thief and Geomancy, which I’m not letting anywhere NEAR this thing). Lastly, as this is supposed to be a more accurate representation of Arceus, I gave it a good chunk of Arceus’s movepool.

Competitive: I did my best to distinguish Silvally from Arceus proper so it wasn’t entirely outclassed by Arceus and didn’t end up outclassing Arceus itself. It has access to a very, very wide variety of extremely powerful and useful moves that Arceus doesn’t get, including its native Parting Shot, with the trade-off being that it doesn’t quite have Arceus’s Speed, bulk or power. Even though Silvally is weaker than the Creator, it’s just as versatile, though it leans a bit more towards offense. Options like Thousand Arrows, Precipice Blades, Origin Pulse, Fleur Cannon, Magma Storm, V-Create, Bolt Strike and Moongeist Beam make it a phenomenal physical, special or mixed attacker, and being able to take on any typing makes it capable of fitting on pretty much any team and switching in on basically anything given the right Plate or Z-Crystal (don’t use Memories unless you REALLY need Multi-Attack for some reason). Parting Shot combined with any good defensive type allows it to be one of the best pivots in the meta, and Hypnosis, Stealth Rock and Defog give it support capability. There aren’t many teams that wouldn’t benefit from including Silvally.
OMG NERF THIS AS ONCE!!! I DON’T WANT EVERY SINGLE LEGENDARY IN ONE POKEMON!!!
Seriously, giving it every move Legendaries know will make this Pokemon a nightmare. Even Arceus isn’t this powerful, and it has higher stats than this! It makes it nearly impossible to kill, and it can literally sweep entire teams! The only thing I can think of that can honestly defeat this thing is Masquerain, and if it has Meadow Plate or Grassium Z or something this thing will be a nightmare. I’m voting for nerfing this monster at once.

How to nerf: just not let it learn any signature Legendary moves and it’ll be far more manageable.

I also think Unown ought to be nerfed; Greninja isn’t this strong, and it’s in OU. Unown is a super boosted Greninja with better Defences and stronger Special Attack. It’s extremely unpredictable as well!

How to nerf: SpA to 100, HP to 100, Alpha Wave secondary effects chance to 50%.

As for Pyukumuku... it also looks strong, with such high Defenses, but I think Pokemon May be able to defeat this with some luck.
 
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alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
OMG NERF THIS AS ONCE!!! I DON’T WANT EVERY SINGLE LEGENDARY IN ONE POKEMON!!!
Seriously, giving it every move Legendaries know will make this Pokemon a nightmare. Even Arceus isn’t this powerful, and it has higher stats than this! It makes it nearly impossible to kill, and it can literally sweep entire teams! The only thing I can think of that can honestly defeat this thing is Masquerain, and if it has Meadow Plate or Grassium Z or something this thing will be a nightmare. I’m voting for nerfing this monster at once.

How to nerf: just not let it learn any signature Legendary moves and it’ll be far more manageable.

I also think Unown ought to be nerfed; Greninja isn’t this strong, and it’s in OU. Unown is a super boosted Greninja with better Defences and stronger Special Attack. It’s extremely unpredictable as well!

How to nerf: SpA to 100, HP to 100, Alpha Wave secondary effects chance to 50%.

As for Pyukumuku... it also looks strong, with such high Defenses, but I think Pokemon May be able to defeat this with some luck.
Unown’s been nerfed in the way you described. I decided to nerf Silvally’s base stats instead of removing all the signature moves, which I think will make it more manageable while still maintaining a niche for itself. Without those moves, it’s just a weaker Arceus with Parting Shot. As for Pyukumuku, it still can’t do much against Taunt, Magic Bounce and other stallbreaking tools, which was one of its main issues in Tier Shift (that and Light Ball Pikachu running around, anyway), so we’ll have to see how it plays out.
 

737373elj

Banned deucer.
I decided to nerf Silvally’s base stats instead of removing all the signature moves, which I think will make it more manageable while still maintaining a niche for itself. Without those moves, it’s just a weaker Arceus with Parting Shot.
All right then... it still looks like a beast to me (any Pokemon with every single legendary signature move is scary!) but I’ll leave it as it is. I would feel safer if OM said it was alright though... I would hate to go up against this thing. Any good counters or checks for it?

Edit:
New moves: Alpha Wave, Aura Sphere, Boomburst, Cosmic Power, Defog, Earth Power, Freeze-Dry, Geomancy, Heal Order, Infestation, Judgment, King’s Shield, Leech Seed, Moongeist Beam, Nature’s Madness, Oblivion Wing, Psyshock, Quiver Dance, Rest, Spore, Toxic, U-Turn, Volt Switch, Will-o-Wisp, X-Scissor, Yawn, Zap Cannon
More changes for Unown:
Geomancy —> Giga Drain
Moongeist Beam —> Mystical Fire
Nature’s Madness —> Night Shade
Oblivion Wing —> Overheat
You’ll understand that the original moves made it too strong. Geomancy Unown!
 
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alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
All right then... it still looks like a beast to me (any Pokemon with every single legendary signature move is scary!) but I’ll leave it as it is. I would feel safer if OM said it was alright though... I would hate to go up against this thing. Any good counters or checks for it?

Edit:

More changes for Unown:
Geomancy —> Giga Drain
Moongeist Beam —> Mystical Fire
Nature’s Madness —> Night Shade
Oblivion Wing —> Overheat
You’ll understand that the original moves made it too strong. Geomancy Unown!
I wouldn’t say there are any checks/counters to everything Silvally has to offer at once, but there aren’t any checks/counters to everything Arceus has to offer at once either. It can’t run everything at once, so it has to sacrifice something. It has to sacrifice full investment in something to be a mixed attacker, and it can be stopped by physical or special walls if it’s a dedicated physical or special attacker. I also intentionally neglected to give it reliable physical Ghost coverage, so it can’t run the 2-move Ghost/Fighting unresisted combo (which isn’t even unresisted anymore because Top Kek) if it’s physical. It also has no way of boosting Speed outside of Z-moves and Flame Charge, so it can usually be dealt with by fast wallbreakers.

I’ll take away Unown’s Geomancy and Moongeist Beam (Protean Ghost/Fighting coverage didn’t really allow for creative sets anyway), but I’ll keep Nature’s Madness and Oblivion Wing on the roster. If those turn out to be a problem I’ll replace them.
 

anaconja

long day at job
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
1569740187256.gif

Pokémon: Shedinja
Typing: Ghost-Fairy
Abilities: Wonder Guard
New moves: Moonblast, Dazzling Gleam
Stats: 2 / 90 / 45 / 30 / 30 / 40 (BST 238(?))
Since Shedinja is hardcoded to have 1 raw HP, editing its base HP stat doesn't do anything.

1569740236270.gif

Pokémon: Ninjask
Typing: Bug-Flying
Abilities: Speed Boost, Infiltrator
Stats: 61 / 130 / 45 / 130 /50 / 180 (BST 596)
New moves: Calm Mind
Custom move description: Sound Burst, 80 BP, Flying-type, is Physical or Special depending on highest attacking stat, priority +3
idk how you thought this was a good idea, a +3 attack coming off of 130 attacking stat is just incredibly stupid against offense, once it gets one swords dance up it just ohkos almost anything
+2 252+ Atk Ninjask Sound Burst vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Yveltal: 333-393 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Ninjask whatever the zmove for this thing is called i cant be bothered to look up vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 381-448 (101 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Ninjask whatever the zmove for this thing is called i cant be bothered to look up vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 490-577 (111.1 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Type: Psychic
Ability: Protean
100/85/120/100/120/75 - 600

New moves: Alpha Wave, Aura Sphere, Boomburst, Cosmic Power, Defog, Earth Power, Freeze-Dry, Glare, Heal Order, Infestation, Judgment, King’s Shield, Leech Seed, Moonblast, Nature’s Madness, Oblivion Wing, Psyshock, Quiver Dance, Rest, Spore, Toxic, U-Turn, Volt Switch, Will-o-Wisp, X-Scissor, Yawn, Zap Cannon
This mon is too versatile, I think - getting access to Spore, setup, and an attack that heals a great amount seems too overcentralizing (plus it doesn't get wings to oblivion with in the first place). Compound this with good coverage (Fighting or Ground Judgment), really good bulk, and Protean, and you have yourself a mon that basically counterteams all offense and bulky offense. It's just too good.

Type: Water/Steel
Abilities: Filter, Unaware, Regenerator
95/100/170/60/170/5 - 560

New moves: Acupressure, Amnesia, Aqua Ring, Camouflage, Destiny Bond, Disable, Encore, Glare, Gunk Shot, Gyro Ball, Haze, Heal Bell, Infestation, Ingrain, Iron Defense, Leech Seed, Magnet Rise, Metal Sound, Mirror Coat, Parting Shot, Power Trick, Rapid Spin, Sand Attack, Spikes, Spiky Shield, Spit Up, Sticky Web, Stockpile, Strength Sap, String Shot, Swallow, Topsy-Turvy, Toxic Thread, Trick, Trick Room, Whirlpool, Will-o-Wisp, Withdraw, Yawn
idk about you but 95/170/170 stats on a steel type mon with reliable recovery, hazards, and unaware is just incredibly stupid
like what even beats this thing

Type: Normal
Ability: RKS System v2.0 - Changes the Pokémon’s type based on the Memory, Plate or Z-Crystal it holds. [Yes, I’m aware this technically breaks the “don’t just combine two Abilities” rule but in this specific instance I think it works fine]
105/105/105/105/105/105 - 630

New moves: Aeroblast, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike, Calm Mind, Core Enforcer, Cosmic Power, Crush Grip, Dark Pulse, Diamond Storm, Doom Desire, Draco Meteor, Dragon Ascent, Dream Eater, Earth Power, Earthquake, Energy Ball, Extreme Speed, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Fleur Cannon, Foul Play, Freeze Shock, Fusion Bolt, Fusion Flare, Gravity, Glaciate, Heart Swap, Hurricane, Hyperspace Hole, Hypnosis, Ice Burn, Inferno, Judgment, Knock Off, Land’s Wrath, Light of Ruin, Light Screen, Lunar Dance, Luster Purge, Magma Storm, Mind Blown, Mist Ball, Moongeist Beam, Nasty Plot, Nature’s Madness, Night Daze, Nightmare, Oblivion Wing, Ominous Wind, Origin Pulse, Overheat, Perish Song, Photon Geyser, Plasma Fists, Poison Jab, Precipice Blades, Prismatic Laser, Psycho Boost, Psystrike, Recover, Recycle, Reflect, Refresh, Relic Song, Retaliate, Revelation Dance, Roar of Time, Sacred Fire, Sacred Sword, Safeguard, Searing Shot, Secret Power, Secret Sword, Seed Flare, Shadow Force, Silver Wind, Sludge Bomb, Solar Beam, Spacial Rend, Stealth Rock, Steam Eruption, Stone Edge, Sunsteel Strike, Taunt, Techno Blast, Telekinesis, Thousand Arrows, Thousand Waves, Thunder, Torment, Trick, Trick Room, Twister, V-Create, Whirlpool, Will-o-Wisp
This is just Unown but even better (aka worse for the meta). You have Swords Dance V-Create/TArrows on one side and Nasty Plot OWing/Blue Flare/Focus Blast on the other. In some cases, this is even better than Arceus. Definitely needs a significant nerf.
 

737373elj

Banned deucer.
Since Shedinja is hardcoded to have 1 raw HP, editing its base HP stat doesn't d
Then let’s just change the code! I’ll ask Scoopapa if we can (was going to @ him/her anyway). If we can’t change it, I’ll use another Pokemon instead.
idk how you thought this was a good idea, a +3 attack coming off of 130 attacking stat is just incredibly stupid against offense, once it gets one swords dance up it just ohkos almost anything
+2 252+ Atk Ninjask Sound Burst vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Yveltal: 333-393 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Ninjask whatever the zmove for this thing is called i cant be bothered to look up vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 381-448 (101 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Ninjask whatever the zmove for this thing is called i cant be bothered to look up vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 490-577 (111.1 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
the problem is even getting +2 off in the first place. It’s defenses are so low that it’s more likely than not to die straight to whatever move the other Pokemon chooses.

P.S. Scoopapa can you tell me what you think Sunflora ought to do? The sample team you know...

Edit: yes yes yes, very good, Anaconja you’re Pokemon defeat Ninjask anyway

252+ SpA Life Orb Yveltal Oblivion Wing vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ninjask: 655-772 (249 - 293.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

156+ Atk Groudon Rock Tomb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ninjask: 560-660 (212.9 - 250.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ninjask: 252-297 (95.8 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Satisfied?
 
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alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
This mon is too versatile, I think - getting access to Spore, setup, and an attack that heals a great amount seems too overcentralizing (plus it doesn't get wings to oblivion with in the first place). Compound this with good coverage (Fighting or Ground Judgment), really good bulk, and Protean, and you have yourself a mon that basically counterteams all offense and bulky offense. It's just too good.

idk about you but 95/170/170 stats on a steel type mon with reliable recovery, hazards, and unaware is just incredibly stupid
like what even beats this thing

This is just Unown but even better (aka worse for the meta). You have Swords Dance V-Create/TArrows on one side and Nasty Plot OWing/Blue Flare/Focus Blast on the other. In some cases, this is even better than Arceus. Definitely needs a significant nerf.
Fair enough, I’ll swap out Spore for Stealth Rock and Oblivion Wing for Overheat on Unown to prevent it from being able to set up completely for free and heal while it attacks.

As for Pyukumuku, I’ve been debating it and I’ve decided to just remove the Steel typing altogether. Being vulnerable to Toxic is a huge nerf to this thing, even more so than being weak to Precipice Blades.

For Silvally, I’ll go ahead and remove Nasty Plot. I don’t feel right taking away Swords Dance since that’s in its original moveset, but removing Nasty Plot makes it harder to set up on the special end of things. Once again, nerfing it too much will just make it Worse Arceus.
 
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T.I.A.

formerly Ticktock
Pokémon: Oranguru
Typing: Psychic
Abilities: Competitive / Knowledge Storage (Has a 10% chance to use the same move twice.) / Analytic
Stats: 100 / 70 / 100 / 130 / 110 / 70 (580 BST)
New Attacks: Ice Beam, Fire Blast, Earth Power, Surf, Moonblast, Recover
Competitive (niche in Ubers): A powerful Special Attacker, with impressive coverage and great abilities. Knowledge Storage is a nice gimmick that basically is an Auto-Instruct, but only 10% of the time due to balance reasons. Its not fast, but it does have bulk to keep up with some nice hits.

Pokémon: Shedinja
Typing: Ghost/Rock
Abilities: Magic Shell (Immune to all direct and non-direct damage, except for super effective attacks. Basically Brokemon's version of Wonder Guard) / Sturdy
Stats: 1 / 134 / 105 / 75 / 105 / 130 (510 BST)
New Attacks: Life Drain, Swords Dance, Knock Off, Sunny Day, Rain Dance, Reflect Type, Magic Coat, Stone Edge, Earthquake, Accelerock, Head Smash, Wild Charge
Competitive (niche in Ubers): Shedinja but fully realized. Magic Shell is just an upgrade to Wonder Guard, but enough to be nice. However, its Ghost/Rock typing is introduced to counterbalance it a bit more. It also has Sturdy for troll options, but anything with Mold Breaker can destroy it still. Its stats are also more suited for the lack of HP, and the bulk does make a Imposter one not useless. Magic Shell, along with its impressive Speed and Attack, makes it quite powerful.
 
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anaconja

long day at job
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
the problem is even getting +2 off in the first place. It’s defenses are so low that it’s more likely than not to die straight to whatever move the other Pokemon chooses.
It can easily get a Swords Dance by holding a Focus Sash or switching into a passive mon (i.e. Ferrothorn, Chansey, etc.) that can't KO it.
Additionally, screens or Memento can be used on hyper offense to allow Ninjask to take one hit (one hit is really all it needs to set up sufficiently).
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 57-67 (21.6 - 25.4%) -- 1.1% chance to 4HKO
Chansey Seismic Toss vs. 0 HP Ninjask: 100-100 (38 - 38%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ninjask through Light Screen: 145-171 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Splash Plate Arceus-Water Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ninjask through Light Screen: 130-153 (49.4 - 58.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
228+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask through Reflect: 123-146 (46.7 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO

Fair enough, I’ll swap out Spore for Stealth Rock and Oblivion Wing for Overheat on Unown to prevent it from being able to set up completely for free and heal while it attacks.
That wasn't the main problem, though - the point was having good bulk, Protean, setup, reliable recovery, and good attacks makes it increasingly difficult to check when it creates so many mind games. (Greninja doesn't have this problem because it goes for a wallbreaking set, has no setup, and has little bulk.)

As for Pyukumuku, I’ve been debating it and I’ve decided to just remove the Steel typing altogether. Being vulnerable to Toxic is a huge nerf to this thing, even more so than being weak to Precipice Blades.
A common Pyukumuku set in lower tiers uses Rest because of the removal of status, the high recovery, and ability to PP stall, and stall teams (where Pyukumuku would only be found) always use Heal Bell anyway, so the weakness to Toxic is not a justification for having the third best mixed bulk in the game (calculated using Zovrah's Thiccipedia).
252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 128 SpD Pyukumuku in Rain: 130-153 (33 - 38.9%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
156+ Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 132+ Def Pyukumuku: 118-141 (30 - 35.8%) -- 40.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 132+ Def Pyukumuku: 133-156 (33.8 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 248 HP / 128 SpD Pyukumuku: 154-182 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 128 SpD Pyukumuku: 144-172 (36.6 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

An objective I went for with my own sub was being able to wall mons that get their power from setup, while having trouble against mons who already have high initial power.

While you may a fair point about Silvally potentially being a worse Arceus, it having so many high-powered attacks is still suspicious:
+2 252 Atk Flame Plate Silvally-Fire V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zygarde-Complete: 258-303 (45 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Flame Plate Silvally V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal in Harsh Sunshine: 301-355 (88.2 - 104.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
While Silvally can boast having more diverse setup sets than Arceus, it needs to be more balanced. Maybe replace high-power attacks with lower-power ones (V-create with Fire Lash, PBlades with Earthquake, etc.)
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
That wasn't the main problem, though - the point was having good bulk, Protean, setup, reliable recovery, and good attacks makes it increasingly difficult to check when it creates so many mind games. (Greninja doesn't have this problem because it goes for a wallbreaking set, has no setup, and has little bulk.)

A common Pyukumuku set in lower tiers uses Rest because of the removal of status, the high recovery, and ability to PP stall, and stall teams (where Pyukumuku would only be found) always use Heal Bell anyway, so the weakness to Toxic is not a justification for having the third best mixed bulk in the game (calculated using Zovrah's Thiccipedia).
252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 128 SpD Pyukumuku in Rain: 130-153 (33 - 38.9%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
156+ Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 132+ Def Pyukumuku: 118-141 (30 - 35.8%) -- 40.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 132+ Def Pyukumuku: 133-156 (33.8 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 248 HP / 128 SpD Pyukumuku: 154-182 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 128 SpD Pyukumuku: 144-172 (36.6 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

An objective I went for with my own sub was being able to wall mons that get their power from setup, while having trouble against mons who already have high initial power.

While you may a fair point about Silvally potentially being a worse Arceus, it having so many high-powered attacks is still suspicious:
+2 252 Atk Flame Plate Silvally-Fire V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zygarde-Complete: 258-303 (45 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Flame Plate Silvally V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal in Harsh Sunshine: 301-355 (88.2 - 104.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
While Silvally can boast having more diverse setup sets than Arceus, it needs to be more balanced. Maybe replace high-power attacks with lower-power ones (V-create with Fire Lash, PBlades with Earthquake, etc.)
Unown is shut down by special walls, even with Nature’s Madness. Even with a Quiver Dance up, it’s outsped by a fair number of things, and with its nerfed Special Attack it really only has the option of being a setup sweeper.

Pyukumuku straight-up loses to any stallbreaking techniques. It had this problem in Tier Shift, it has it in vanilla, and it has it here.

V-Create can be used exactly one (1) time before Silvally needs to switch out, since it risks being revenge killed by nearly everything in the meta. Victini has V-Create with only slightly less Attack and Speed, and Rayquaza has it with Dragon Dance. V-Create is a one-time nuke, not a sweeping move.

This is Ubers, not OU. If the tier had to be 100% balanced, Primal Groudon would have been banned four years ago.
 

anaconja

long day at job
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Unown is shut down by special walls, even with Nature’s Madness.
+1 252 SpA Spooky Plate Protean Unown Judgment vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 162-192 (38.9 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Spooky Plate Protean Unown Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Protean Unown Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 212-252 (60.2 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Spooky Plate Protean Unown Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 210-247 (47.2 - 55.6%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO

chansey gets rekt by gengar and goth anyway

Even with a Quiver Dance up, it’s outsped by a fair number of things
it has the bulk to compensate

with its nerfed Special Attack it really only has the option of being a setup sweeper.
that wasnt even part of my argument

Pyukumuku straight-up loses to any stallbreaking techniques. It had this problem in Tier Shift, it has it in vanilla, and it has it here.
okay, and which mons use taunt? there’s only yveltal and maybe goth and garmega, but yveltal can be handled by something like magearna while pyukumuku holds a shed shell to not get trapped.

V-Create can be used exactly one (1) time before Silvally needs to switch out, since it risks being revenge killed by nearly everything in the meta. Victini has V-Create with only slightly less Attack and Speed, and Rayquaza has it with Dragon Dance. V-Create is a one-time nuke, not a sweeping move.
is this even problematic? it forces something out, sets up swords dance, and kills something. then it switches out. whats stopping it from doing that

This is Ubers, not OU. If the tier had to be 100% balanced, Primal Groudon would have been banned four years ago.
this has to be the least informed opinion ive ever seen, and ive already answered this before
Let's see what already checks or beats PDon already.

Defensive Checks
Arceus-Dragon: high mixed bulk, resistance to Fire, faster than PDon to recover and chip with Judgment
checks: offensive support, defensive support
also checks: Mega Lucario, Kyogre (choiced); Mega Salamence
loses to: swords dance

Zygarde-C: high mixed bulk, resistance to Fire, can cripple PDon with Glare
checks: offensive support, defensive support, swords dance
also checks: Ho-oh, Mega Salamence; Necrozma-DM
loses to: mixed rock polish

Lugia: high mixed bulk, faster than PDon, immunity to Ground
checks: offensive support, defensive support, mixed rock polish
also checks: Arceus-Ground, Primal Kyogre
loses to: swords dance; stone edge/rock tomb sets

Giratina: high mixed bulk, resistance to fire
checks: offensive support, defensive support, mixed rock polish
also checks: Necrozma-DM, Ho-oh, Mega Salamence
loses to: swords dance

Giratina-O: moderate-high mixed bulk, resistance to fire, immunity to ground
checks: offensive support, defensive support, swords dance
also checks: Arceus-Ground, Ho-oh; Necrozma-DM, Mega Salamence
loses to: mixed rock polish

Mega Salamence: moderate-high physical bulk, faster than PDon, resistance to fire, immunity to ground
checks: offensive support, defensive support, swords dance
also checks: Ho-oh; Mega Lucario, Yveltal, Xerneas, Rayquaza
loses to: mixed rock polish; stone edge/rock tomb sets

Ho-oh: moderate-high mixed bulk, resistance to fire, immunity to ground
checks: offensive support, defensive support, mixed rock polish
also checks: Necrozma-DM, Yveltal, Xerneas
loses to: swords dance; stone edge/rock tomb sets

Celesteela/Skarmory: moderate-high physical bulk, immunity to ground
checks: defensive support, swords dance
also checks: Arceus-Ground, Arceus Fairy, Mega Salamence, Rayquaza
loses to: mixed rock polish; fire attack sets

Offensive Checks
Arceus-Ground: high mixed bulk, faster than PDon, OHKOs non-bulky sets
can switch into: Precipice Blades, Stone Edge, Dragon Pulse
cannot switch into: Fire-type attacks

Primal Kyogre: moderate physical bulk, immunity to fire, OHKOs all sets
can switch into: Fire-type attacks, Stone Edge, Dragon Pulse, Hidden Power Ice
cannot switch into: Precipice Blades

Lunala: high mixed bulk (with Shadow Shield), faster than PDon, 2HKOs all sets
can switch into: all (with Shadow Shield)
cannot switch into: all (without Shadow Shield)

Now, let's see what Untiered mons checks PDon.

Defensive Checks
Gogoat: high mixed bulk, resistance to Ground
checks: defensive support, swords dance
also checks: Arceus-Ground, Kyogre-Primal, Zygarde-Complete
loses to: offensive support, mixed rock polish

Solrock: moderate-high mixed bulk, resistance to Fire, immunity to Ground
checks: offensive support, defensive support, mixed rock polish
also checks: Arceus-Ground, Mega Salamence, Rayquaza
loses to: swords dance; smack down sets

Wailord: high physical bulk, resistance to Fire, Immunity to Ground
checks: offensive support, defensive support, mixed rock polish
also checks: Arceus-Ground, Ho-oh, Zygarde-Complete
loses to: swords dance

Offensive Checks
Swanna: faster than PDon, resistance to Fire, immunity to Ground, OHKOs all sets
can switch into: precipice blades, fire blast/overheat/eruption, dragon pulse, hidden power ice
cannot switch into: stone edge, rock tomb, smack down


Finally, let's see what PDon's move usage.

+----------------------------------------+
| Moves |
| Precipice Blades 81.742% |
| Stealth Rock 48.809% |
| Swords Dance 37.204% |
| Rock Polish 34.135% |
| Stone Edge 31.147% |
| Rock Tomb 24.601% |
| Fire Punch 23.668% |
| Toxic 19.526% |
| Overheat 18.750% |
| Earthquake 14.047% |
| Hidden Power Ice 13.305% |
| Eruption 12.130% |
| Roar 11.081% |
| Fire Blast 8.643% |
| Earth Power 3.657% |
| Other 17.554% |
+----------------------------------------+

We’ll use these usage stats to calculate the approximate effectiveness of each check.

Ho-oh: <44.3%
Celesteela/Skarmory: 48.9%
Gogoat: 48.9%
Giratina-Origin: 49.5%
Salamence-Mega: <49.5%
Arceus-Ground: 60.5%
Solrock: <62.8%
Arceus-Dragon: 62.8%
Arceus-Water: 62.8%
Giratina: 62.8%
Zygarde-Complete: 86.7%
Wailord: >82.4%

As we can clearly see, there are a lot of solid checks already. Groudon is used so much not because it’s broken, but just because it’s really versatile and tanky. There’s no reason to make more subs just to beat it.
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
words words words
I’ll defer to your obviously better judgment here: what should I do to further absolutely neuter my submissions?

(Okay, that was rude, sorry.)

Edit: Unown now has Aeroblast, Night Daze and Photon Geyser instead of Aura Sphere, Nature’s Madness and Psyshock. It should be a lot easier to wall now; for example, it can do basically nothing to Chansey except click Alpha Wave and pray. I can’t afford to get rid of Judgment or Quiver Dance without undermining the “alphabet” aspect, which is its entire shtick.

Pyukumuku’s base stats are now a bit more balanced. It’s still crazy bulky, but it’s not unreasonably bulky. I also gave it a couple special attacks since its Sp. Atk is better now.

I removed V-Create, Precipice Blades, Secret Sword, and a couple other things I don’t remember from Silvally. Sacred Fire and Thousand Arrows are good enough.
 
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OM!, shouldn't Zangoose and Musharna be removed from the spreadsheet and Untiered pokemon dropdown list as they're now classified as PU by usage, and shouldn't Torterra and Poliwrath be added to the spreadsheet and dropdown list as they're now Untiered by usage?
 

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