Froslass

OmegaForte

OmegaForte


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# 478 - Froslass

Froslass! She returns in the 5th generation, ready to set up some Spikes and block Rapid Spin at the same time.
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Abilities
Snow Cloak -Raises the Pokémon’s evasion during a hailstorm by one level.

Dream World Ability
Cursed Body -If it is attacked, it will occasionally cause the attacking move to be Disabled. 30%

Base Stats
70 HP | 80 Atk | 70 Def | 80 SpAtk | 70 SpDef | 110 Speed
Lv1 - Powder Snow
Lv1 - Leer
Lv1 - Double Team
Lv1 - Astonish
Lv4 - Double Team
Lv10 - Astonish
Lv13 - Icy Wind
Lv19 - Confuse Ray
Lv22 - Ominous Wind
Lv28 - Wake-Up Slap
Lv31 - Captivate
Lv37 - Ice Shard
Lv40 - Hail
Lv51 - Blizzard
Lv59 - Destiny Bond

TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM19 - Telekinesis
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM27 - Return
TM29 - Psychic
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM32 - Double Team
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM48 - Troll
TM56 - Fling
TM63 - Embargo
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM77 - Psych Up
TM79 - Ice Breath
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute

Block
Spikes
Rollout
Disable
Bide
Weather Ball
Avalanche
Evil Eye
Fake Tears
*In bold is what I think are good moves for Froslass.*

Potential Sets

Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability - Cursed Body
Nature - Timid
EVs - 252 SpAtk/4 SpDef/252 Spe
~Spikes
~Taunt
~Ice Beam/Shadow Ball
~Destiny Bond

Standard Froslass set. Her main purpose is to be a lead. Spikes is the main thing you want to set up. Taunt allows her to stop opposing leads from setting up their own entry hazards, cause status problems, or set up on you. (Stat boosting moves) After that, use Destiny Bond to take down the opposing Pokemon to tie up the match while having Spikes on the field. Ice Beam is your main attack, to destroy most Dragons while Shadow Ball is to hit ghost types such as Shadera and Desukan. About her Dream World ability, it actually makes good uses. Here, scarletnova states a possible scenario how Cursed Body has it's uses. It's nice to have a move disable because this opens up a turn for a Pokemon to set up Swords Dance, Stealth Rock, etc, if the opponent decides to switch out.

Froslass @ Bright Powder
Ability - Snow Cloak
Nature - Timid
EVs - 248 HP/228 Def/32 Spe
~Fake Tears
~Blizzard
~Thunder Wave/Substitute
~Substitute/Shadow Ball

Okay, so this looks very similar to the Snow Cloak abuser set; though different because of a new egg move! With Fake Tears, Froslass can be a bit of a support. You must run Froslass with Abamasnow to have Hail weather in effect. The best way to make this work is to scare off a Dragon type, use substitute, and then use an appropriate move depending on he Pokemon. Most of the time T-Wave is best to use after sub. Fake Tears can be used first instead of T-Wave because we want a 2 SpDef drop. From there, attack of switch out to an appropriate counter. Counters that benefit from the drop are obviously specially based Pokemon. Now for some reason I think about Shandera comes into mind because of that huge 140 SpAtk. Despite of the ghost type weakness, Shandera benefits from paralyzed opponents or Pokemon with a 2 SpDef drop. With Shadow Tag, opposing Pokemon won't escape and will be OHKO'ed most of the time. There is one flaw... switching out ruins this set but like I said before, it's a combination of the Snow Cloak abuser set. Toxic Spikes support is excellent since she can possible avoid an attack and cause some sort of stall.

Uberslass @ Focus Sash
Ability - Cursed Body
Nature - Timid
EVs - 252 SpAtk/4 SpDef/252 Spe
~Spikes
~Icy Wind
~Shadow Ball/Ice Beam
~Destiny Bond/HP Fire

This set still has uses in the 5th generation. Icy Wind is to slow down leads such as Deoxys. It still works well if the opponent decides to switch because many will not like the speed drop. Follow up with Spikes. Shadow Ball is so you can stop Deoxys-S from setting up more than one layer of Spikes, only set up Stealth Rock, or none at all if Deoxys-S decides to taunt Froslass. Ice Beam also works out fine due to a few more Pokemon to hit super effectively like Zekrom. Destiny Bond is to take down one Pokemon as a last resort while HP fire is to take out Forretress and Genosekuto. (Assuming Genosekuto gets into ubers)

Final Thoughts
Froslass is still a good lead when you pair her up with other Pokemon. Those would be the ones who want to sweep a team since layers of Spikes helps them eliminate Pokemon more easier. Even with GameFreak enabling to see each others Pokemon, she can still pull something off with her 110 base speed.

Thoughts, criticism, new sets to work out with Cursed Body, etc, are welcomed.
 
Most stall teams I've encountered so far carrie the stell/grass thingie to spam entry hazards and gyro ball. Can Froslass counter it somehow?
Other than that, I think Froslass can work as a viable check to many current threats, like Chomp, Shandera, Ono, Land/Voltros, Viridion, etc.
 
I love this thread!

Can Froslass on a Hail team play more offensively than usual without beeing outclassed by Gengar, and what about TormentLass?
 
I think this new ability could be useful against something choiced.

Like you are hit by a choice scarf stone edge from heracross and the ability disables the move, heracross will be forced to use struggle or switch giving you a free turn.

the same can happen with locking moves like outrage/petal dance.

if this is the case then froslass can also do something mid-game or at the lead position if facing a choice pokémon like band scizor using bullet punch
 
As her old ability was completely useless on her lead set, her new one is strictly better, even if it only goes off 30% of the time. Removing cb scizor's bullet punch would be gravy.

Unfortunately she has problems with erufuun and sableye and any other mischievous heart dudes with taunt and status. She could ice beam erufuun after getting stun spored, but she can't do anything to sableye really. Misvhievous heart is going to kill the whole 'suicide lead' concept imo.
 
Froslass can 2HKO all Miscievous Heart Pokemon with Ice Beam so they won't be as big of a problem as you might think.

I don't see why you're assuming Deoxys-A and Genosekuto will be Uber. In the begining at least, they're most likely going to be allowed in OU and may end up staying there. I haven't seen anyone say that Genosekuto will be anywhere near an initial banlist.

Edit: Why does Froslass need to counter Natorei? Shouldn't you have something like Heatran or Shanderaa to take it on?

Even if you're just trying to take down leading Natorei, you either get up one layer of Spikes as it attacks and KO it with Destiny Bond, Taunt it as it attacks and get either KO it with Destiny Bond or set up a layer of Spikes, Taunt it as it tries to set up Spikes/SR and fails (you'll then get either two layers of Spikes or one layer and KO it), or you both set up 3 layers of Spikes, it gets up SR, and you kill it.
 
Most stall teams I've encountered so far carrie the stell/grass thingie to spam entry hazards and gyro ball. Can Froslass counter it somehow?
Click to expand...
Spiker Froslass HP Fire against Nattorei, 252 HP / 252 SDef, +SDef nature: 40.9% - 48.9%
Most Nattorei don't run max SDef, so you're pretty much guaranteed a 2HKO... unfortunately, Gyro Ball completely destroys Froslass no matter what, so you'll need your Focus Sash for this to work. Destiny Bond works too, I guess, and you could always hope for Cursed Body to activate. No truly reliable way of countering it with Froslass though.

While the new ability is better than Snow Cloak for non-Hail teams, it's a bit sad to see that Froslass didn't gain any interesting new moves in Gen V. Oh well.
 
I personally don't think Froslass changed much from D/P, and I also don't see how Snow Cloak is useless when you opponent might as well lead with an Abomasnow.
 
Dark Froslass said:
I love this thread!

Can Froslass on a Hail team play more offensively than usual without beeing outclassed by Gengar, and what about TormentLass?
Click to expand...
I was thinking of a set consisting of torment. The problem is that she isn't bulky enough to pull it off.
Snow cloak isn't useless but with these 2 sets, Cursed Body is better.
Wow. I complete forgot about band/scarf Pokemon. Sorry everyone, I will add that info in and run some calcs later. (I'm not on my computer)
 
Not too sure about the ev spread but...
Froslass @ Bright Powder/leftovers
Nature: Timid
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 HP/6 SpAtk/252 Spe
~T-wave
~Torment
~Confuse Ray
~Ice Beam/Shadow Ball

Problem is that I think the Snow Cloak abuser set works better. Therefore that set should be used.
 
Does Cursed Body work on the same counter as Disable? If it doesn't, you could potentially run Disable to stop your opponent from using two different moves.
 
I'm so glad you made a thread on one of the most awesome Gen. 4 Pokemon. I hope she lives up to her previous standards this generation. =D Oddly enough, she still outspeeds a large portion of the metagame, including lots of new Pokemon, so I reckon she'll still be very effective.
 
her MAIN threats are dark and fire types yes? well a stab ice beam should be able to get a dark type down pretty easy. this might sound odd. but possibly give her hp water?
 
I'm so sorry. I forgot to post egg moves! I will post them a soon as I get home. I assume it is a egg move unless my eyes are playing tricks on me. Problem is Froslass needs Spikes.

Lucindril said:
I'm so glad you made a thread on one of the most awesome Gen. 4 Pokemon. I hope she lives up to her previous standards this generation. =D Oddly enough, she still outspeeds a large portion of the metagame, including lots of new Pokemon, so I reckon she'll still be very effective.
Click to expand...
I have faith she will. Froslass speed and the only ghost type to set up Spikes makes her unique in this new metagame. My top favorite as well.

Griffen: Froslass only has 80 base SpAtk. She needs stab-moves to hit hard. (Cause at least 2OHKOs or one for most dragons.)
 
She is the maiden frozen by sorrow. Ofcorse she will be effective this gen. her new ability even makes her extremely useful outside of the hail, but weather teams are skyrocketing in usefulness so I have a feeling she will be a comman hail team member (that is if people use weather teams besides rain and sun which we all know will skyrocket even more this gen)
 
eduardosunshine said:
I think this new ability could be useful against something choiced.

Like you are hit by a choice scarf stone edge from heracross and the ability disables the move, heracross will be forced to use struggle or switch giving you a free turn.

the same can happen with locking moves like outrage/petal dance.

if this is the case then froslass can also do something mid-game or at the lead position if facing a choice pokémon like band scizor using bullet punch
Click to expand...

Fross can barely take a hit. Unless @ full health w/focus sash, there is no doubt a stone edge from heracross will OHKO. plus cross is uu now. -.-
 
There are rare occasions where I have revenge killed a Pokemon because of a Scarfslass. (Sometimes I end up not using Trick)

I updated with a new move set, though I think it's too hard to pull off. I need thoughts on it. Also I might add a Scarf set. I just need someone to explain to me the new mechanics on using Trick with a Band/Scarf/Specs.
 
Interesting...Another ability that relies on hax and is equally as annoying >__>.Frosy may make a staple Spiker/Spin Blocker/Revenge Killer this gen.Lets wait and see =P
 
Glad to see one of my favorite Gen IV Pokémon is getting some attention. It's just too bad Froslass really didn't get a whole lot.

My main concern is how she'll fare against the new proposed suicide lead, Aguurida the clam ninja (who, admittedly, is one of my favs from this gen). As another fast–extremely fast–spiker who also gets a suicide mover (Desperation) and also has average coverage, will Froslass' niche lie in her ghost-typing's benefits?
 
Red: Yes, it did.
Griffen: That's just it. You will need Abamasnow alive or at least have a Pokemon access to Hail.
Noble: That's my biggest worry. Though Froslass being a spin blocker should make her different from Aguurida as a lead.
 
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