Metagame Full Potential

[drampa's grandpa]

Question: do Draco Meteor, Superpower,and friends lower the same stat as ou or the relevant attacking stat? This should probably be included in the op. If it's the first option Draco Meteor and friends become extremely powerful moves.

 

[Spandan]

Question: do Draco Meteor, Superpower,and friends lower the same stat as ou or the relevant attacking stat? This should probably be included in the op. If it's the first option Draco Meteor and friends become extremely powerful moves.

They lower the same stats as OU. And Yes, they are incredibly powerful.

 

[Felis]

They lower the same stats as OU. And Yes, they are incredibly powerful.

By that same notion, assault vest defensive malamar is not bad, as he's now going off of his defence for his attacking power. Thus he is able to start off with a good defense stat. Still not necessarily viable, but somewhat more useful.

 

[x TwirlyPanda x]

No one has brought this up yet? Huh. I know that in Averagemons this was a fairly potent threat

Rampardos @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Earth Power / Focus Miss Blast / Stone Edge / Crunch / Iron Head
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower

Yeah, it's still really slow and frail, but I mean come on. Look at that coverage. It's even got boltbeam!

It OHKOs Dragonite!

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Rampardos Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 434-512 (112.4 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Toxapex!

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Rampardos Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 322-380 (105.9 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Will usually 2HKO Vested, Max SpD and HP Regice which is pretty impressive when you think about it

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Rampardos Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regice: 127-151 (34.8 - 41.4%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Or 2HKO every time if you have big balls!

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Rampardos Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regice: 169-200 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

lamo nvm dude just use iron head over focus blast

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Rampardos Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regice: 385-455 (105.7 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Yeah it's still not quite the top tier sweeper because of that speed, but there are some things that it will manage to creep over (like the Regis) and now, without Head Smash killing you after a single hit! Wow!
But really though, because of all the slow things here, I feel like it has the chance to shine more so than it did in PU. Definitely something I'm gonna throw onto my team to take on Toxapex.

EDIT: threw in a few physical options that could also work
EDIT: lol rip Regice

 

[gmfc]

Groundgar just got a lot better

Dugtrio @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Earth Power

essentially doing the job it does in ou but only 1.5x better, dugtrio hits like a truck with enough bulk to be more than just a trapper, but a legitimate threat to the meta

 

[Destroyer6924]

I have a question, so if a Pokemon's highest stat is used when calculating damage, what stat of the opponent would be used to calculate damage?

What I'm asking is, if you have a Greninja for example, and use Water Shuriken (a special move), would it use Greninjas speed stat as a replacement (when calculating damage) for its special attack and use the opponent Special Defence when calculating damage? And if so, I'm taking it'd be the same for physical?

Also how would burn work? Would it only affect physical moves? Or what would happen if it's attack stat is its highest stat and the mon gets burned? Would damage on all of its moves be halved since its attack is halved? Or just its physical moves

 

[dhelmise]

I have a question, so if a Pokemon's highest stat is used when calculating damage, what stat of the opponent would be used to calculate damage?

What I'm asking is, if you have a Greninja for example, and use Water Shuriken (a special move), would it use Greninjas speed stat as a replacement (when calculating damage) for its special attack and use the opponent Special Defence when calculating damage? And if so, I'm taking it'd be the same for physical?

Also how would burn work? Would it only affect physical moves? Or what would happen if it's attack stat is its highest stat and the mon gets burned? Would damage on all of its moves be halved since its attack is halved? Or just its physical moves

special move = special defense; physical move = physical defense
a burn exclusively halves attack, so that wont change the invested stat if it isnt attack

 

[Destroyer6924]

special move = special defense; physical move = physical defense
a burn exclusively halves attack, so that wont change the invested stat if it isnt attack

(Sorry I'm a bit confused here, had literally no sleep) so if the invested stat is attack, and the mon is burned, does all of its attacks do half?

E.g. No Guard Machamp with max attack is burned
Uses Dynamic Punch, damage is halved because of burn
Uses Focus Blast, would the damage be halved since its using its attack stat to calc damage or what?

 

[dhelmise]

(Sorry I'm a bit confused here, had literally no sleep) so if the invested stat is attack, and the mon is burned, does all of its attacks do half?

E.g. No Guard Machamp with max attack is burned
Uses Dynamic Punch, damage is halved because of burn
Uses Focus Blast, would the damage be halved since its using its attack stat to calc damage or what?

yes, only if the invested stat is attack

 

[Destroyer6924]

yes, only if the invested stat is attack

Kk thanks!

 

[SP458]

special move = special defense; physical move = physical defense
a burn exclusively halves attack, so that wont change the invested stat if it isnt attack

Bulbapedia states that burn halves damage from physical moves instead of halving Attack since Gen III. In his example, Focus Blast's damage will never be halved by a burn, even if Attack is its highest stat.

 

[dhelmise]

Bulbapedia states that burn halves damage from physical moves instead of halving Attack since Gen III. In his example, Focus Blast's damage will never be halved by a burn, even if Attack is its highest stat.

No, it halves Attack. Bulbapedia is not a trustworthy website due to it being an open to edit forum. All code put in PS is confirmed by researchers beforehand, and it is put in as halving Attack.

 

[SP458]

No, it halves Attack. Bulbapedia is not a trustworthy website due to it being an open to edit forum. All code put in PS is confirmed by researchers beforehand, and it is put in as halving Attack.

I've just dug into PS! code and found the relevant piece of code about burn in battle-engine.js (lines 3794-3798):

if (pokemon.status === 'brn' && basePower && move.category === 'Physical' && !pokemon.hasAbility('guts')) {
            if (this.gen < 6 || move.id !== 'facade') {
                baseDamage = this.modify(baseDamage, 0.5);
            }
        }

Burn doesn't halve the Attack stat, it halves physical damage (read again: it's a damage modifier, not a stat modifier). So in Full Potential, your Pokémon's special moves, even if the highest raw stat is Attack, are not affected by a burn.

 

[dhelmise]

I've just dug into PS! code and found the relevant piece of code about burn in battle-engine.js (lines 3794-3798):

if (pokemon.status === 'brn' && basePower && move.category === 'Physical' && !pokemon.hasAbility('guts')) {
            if (this.gen < 6 || move.id !== 'facade') {
                baseDamage = this.modify(baseDamage, 0.5);
            }
        }

Burn doesn't halve the Attack stat, it halves physical damage (read again: it's a damage modifier, not a stat modifier). So in Full Potential, your Pokémon's special moves, even if the highest raw stat is Attack, are not affected by a burn.

< means "less than", and that says lower than gen 6 means that it modifies base power, so it returns back to halving attack instead of halving base power in gen 6

 

[Spandan]

I'm gonna post a better explanation in case anyone still didn't understand the mechanics.

When you hover your cursor on a mon, you will see it's status card:

The stats after modifiers will be given under "After Modifiers".
Now, look for the highest stat here. In this case, its Araquanid's Assualt Vest boosted Special Defense. This stat will now be used for attacking instead of its attack/special attack.
As you can see here, ANY Modifiers to your stats will matter, this includes raw stat boosts, any stat drops, boosts from items, abilities, stat drops from status conditions etc.

 

[DouglasFalcon]

AV Dragalge looks scary on paper
Not the greatest physical bulk and horrible speed, but it's got stuff like Draco Meteor, Poison STAB, Scald and Dragon Tail/Focus Blast/TBolt with Adaptability further boosting his STABs, it looks like a nice choice for a bulky Dragon type that is not named Goodra
Another potentially good Pokémon is Tauros, which is usually held back by his pretty low stats. Now Tauros gets base 110 SpA and coverage moves like Fire Blast, Ice Beam and TBolt are gonna hit much harder with the SF boost, and he even gets a cute 10 boost to his Atk stat on top of finally having a reliable STAB in Body Slam

For my personal favourite we have Toxicroak
While it is a very mediocre Pokémon by itself, Toxicroak is able to shut down Araquanid in a very nice way, being immune or resistant to any move Araquanid commonly carries (Ice Beam is gonna hit hard as a truck, but Araquanid doesn't reall use that move), is able to Knock Off his AV to take even less damage from his hits or SD up and process to outright OHKO Araquanid with Gunk Shot
Calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Araquanid Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 103-122 (33.5 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Araquanid Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 77-91 (25 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Araquanid: 473-558 (170.7 - 201.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It's a shame that Toxicroak doesn't really benefit too much from this metagame aside from having a STAB priority, but I think it's still a valid choice because of its ability to deal with the mose broken thing is this metagame

 

[chartung17]

(Sorry I'm a bit confused here, had literally no sleep) so if the invested stat is attack, and the mon is burned, does all of its attacks do half?

E.g. No Guard Machamp with max attack is burned
Uses Dynamic Punch, damage is halved because of burn
Uses Focus Blast, would the damage be halved since its using its attack stat to calc damage or what?

If I'm understanding the mechanics correctly, then that's not right. The highest stat after modifiers is used, and if you cut Machamp's attack in half, then it's no longer the highest stat (unless you have a choice band), and damage would be based on Machamp's special defense (assuming most of its EVs were invested in HP and attack). Admittedly, that doesn't make much difference in Machamp's case, but there are other mons where it would matter.

 

[Iynhe]

Why no one is trying to find some good knock off users? *_*
I will try for sure! Being able to knock off all those AVs/eviolites/scarf items is a really good thing here.

 

[dhelmise]

Why no one is trying to find some good knock off users? *_*
I will try for sure! Being able to knock off all those AVs/eviolites/scarf items is a really good thing here.

Choice Scarf Weavile, Mega Sableye, and defensive Ferrothorn are good Knock Off users. I posted a Ferrothorn set earlier, but Choice Scarf Weavile can run Knock Off + Ice Beam + Hidden Power + Surf + Focus Blast or some combination of that, and Mega Sableye can run Recover + Knock Off + Sucker Punch + Shadow Sneak or another combination as well.

 

[Funbot28]

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Defense
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake / Thunder Punch

Mega Metagross now gets a pseudo Swords Dance boost from Iron Defense now, which allows it to basically blow back anything after a couple of boosts, while also boosting its titanic defense stat. I initially ran Agility, but I wanted to abuse the higher defense as the power increase is very noticeable.

Also rip, smn ninja'd my Scarf Duggy set

 

[Felis]

Fellow future and current players, take my advice: Running both types of moves here would be wise. I.E. both physical and special. Because said moves run off of one stat instead of two, it's far easier to have coverage. And keep in mind that if you run only one type of move (physical or special) that you're likely to be able to be walled more easily. Remember: Will-o-wisp exists to reduce physical damage (yes it does reduce physical damage, regardless of which stat it's running off of- I've tested it) and assault vest exists to wall special damage.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I'm surprised there hasn't been mention of Accelgor yet. Blinding fast (and thus really strong) U-Turn, Acid Spray and Knock Off mess with Assault Vest users, powerful coverage options in Focus Blast, Sludge Bomb, and Energy Ball, and if I'm not mistaken, activating Unburden will double its power.

 

[Lil' Litleo]

So there's probably better Sceptile sets, but if you set up a sub on a switch, you can agility, and spam substitute until your berry is activated. At +2, Sceptile's speed is 744. If unburden is activated on top of your boost, your speed is a whopping 1488, plus an extra speed boost with a Salac Berry makes your speed 2232. Leaf storm is a nuke without the drops now, and EQ is necessary coverage.

Sceptile @ Aguav Berry/Salac Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Agility

 

[Felis]

This just in: http://www.serebii.net/sunmoon/onlinecompetitions.shtml- Look at March's entry, then look at the entry gift.

Will this affect the metagame? I ask NV to respond when able.

If so, that means a relevant mega stone will return. (Steelixite)

 

[Deleted User 91486]

What do you think about this set?

Blissey @ Assault Vest
Ability: Serene Grace / Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Ice Beam / Blizzard
- Thunderbolt / Thunder

It has 610 SpD thanks to the AV and this combined with its well-known HP stat should make it a gread and hard-hitting tank?

And this is another Toxapex set, can this be useful too?

Toxapex @ Black Sludge / Sitrus Berry / Wiki Berry
Ability: Regenerator / Merciless
EVs: 252 SpD / 252 Def / 4 HP (or other splits?)
Calm Nature
- Stockpile
- Recover
- Scald / Liquidation
- Poison Jab

With Stockpile, it boosts its defenses, so that it gains more and more bulk while also hitting harder and harder. A berry as item restores its HP faster if it was hit by a powerful attack while stockpiling, while Black Sludge provides permanent little recovery and punishes trick/switcheroo.