Metagame Full Potential

[Clas]

youve all been using pex with the wrong moves

Toxapex @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground / Dark / Poison / Water / Fighting / Grass / Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Gunk Shot
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Tera Blast / Acid Spray / Liquidation / Sludge Bomb

very dumb breaker and wall that abuses its high bp moves and insanely flexible tera. shame you cant use tspikes with av, otherwise this would be incredibly potent.


Toxapex @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water / Poison / Ground / Dark / Grass / Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Hydro Pump
- Iron Defense
- Recover

once again uses its insane defenses and tera flexibility to be a menace offensively. you can run spd instead but it only gains a minor boost at +2.


Toxapex @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water / Poison / Ground / Dark / Grass / Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Acid Spray
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Toxic Spikes
- Recover

slow breaker and hazard setter that can force progress quickly. you can use this in spd but defense is more useful rn imo

 

[Low-Key]

Allow me to showcase a mon that has been underlooked:


Tinkaton (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Gigaton Hammer
- Knock Off
- Play Rough
- Fake Out

You could definitely come up with better sets with this fairy with a hammer, but this is just as a note that Tinkaton has a Special Defense of 105, coupling that with the best defensive type plus Gigaton Hammer goes truly bonkers. Tinkaton is now able to unleash the true power of Gigaton Hammer through that stat, and slap an Assault Vest on it and it goes HARD. EVs are geared towards maximizing the power of Gigaton Hammer and speed, since 94 Speed is below average but still respectable. Let me know if anyone has used this on ladder cuz it has so much potential.

 

[galaraxity]

Kilowattrel @ Life Orb
Ability: Wind Power
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Brave Bird
- Tailwind
- Roost (?)

This thing is stupid. Not as in stupid-good... it's just dumb, but I really love using it and it's not as bad as you'd think. With the bulk investment you can almost always get a Tailwind off, and then just straight up OHKO things with T-bolt for 3 turns. Extra points for Terastallizing Electric for a Turn 2 NUKE bc of Wind Power. Like I've OHKO'd some really bulky resists with that thing.

I never use Roost on it but I'm at a loss for what to put in that fourth slot. Tera-Electric'ing is fun but it might be better with Tera Blast and an actual thoughtful Tera-type

 

[fratelli bc]

Allow me to showcase a mon that has been underlooked:


Tinkaton (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Gigaton Hammer
- Knock Off
- Play Rough
- Fake Out

You could definitely come up with better sets with this fairy with a hammer, but this is just as a note that Tinkaton has a Special Defense of 105, coupling that with the best defensive type plus Gigaton Hammer goes truly bonkers. Tinkaton is now able to unleash the true power of Gigaton Hammer through that stat, and slap an Assault Vest on it and it goes HARD. EVs are geared towards maximizing the power of Gigaton Hammer and speed, since 94 Speed is below average but still respectable. Let me know if anyone has used this on ladder cuz it has so much potential.

It does have a lot of potential, but I like max HP instead of Speed.
She can survive all the boomburst spam and also Espathra's Stored Power easily.

Gigaton Hammer is really impressive, it dealt 50% against full def Ting-Lu.
IMO, she is a better user of AV than Scream Tail.


Speaking of underlooked pokemon, I find this very funny to use:

Jolteon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
Tera Type: Normal/Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Facade
- Shadow Ball
- Trailblaze
- Thunderbolt

Boosted Facade comming from 591 Speed, that can be further boosted with Trailblaze (that covers Ground), plus immunity to status since it will be burned. This OHKOed an AV goodra without stab on Facade.

 

[kenn]

Okay so while I was a dum-dum and don't know exactly who voted what (because I forgot to ask for usernames in the Google Forms) I don't know who voted what BUT that being said...

Dragapult, Espathra, and Booster Energy are BANNED from Full Potential!​

Dragapult Espathra 2 Item Clause Booster Energy Maushold Ban Ban Yes Ban Abstain Ban Ban No Ban Abstain Ban Ban No Ban Abstain Ban Ban Yes Abstain Ban Ban Ban Abstain Ban Do Not Ban

This was initially on the ban list when it was submitted but decided to let it roam free as this wasn't playable until it became Leader's Choice. Once it did become playable though, it was plain and clear just how good this was and that meant it needed to get the boot.


While Speed Boost was banned back when this was playable in Gen 7, this Gen there is only 2 Pokémon that have, both of which are of the same evolutionary line. Having the passive set up of Speed Boost comboed with a fantastic signature move in Lumina Crash and just enough coverage to make worthwhile (Low Kick, Fighting Tera Blast, or Dazzling Gleam were the go-tos) proved too much. Obviously Flittle hasn't seen usage (yet) so Espathra was the one that got voted on over the ability itself and subsequently got banned.

This thing has seemed to cause so many issues in certain metas (looking at STAB and GG specifically) and it was no different here. With Speed being utilized as an attacking stat, things like Scream Tail, Flutter Mane, and Iron Bundle were able to use this, get the +1, and proceed to just wreck the opposing team. While the aforementioned Pokémon can still be good with the Speed stat they do have, this item just pushed them over the edge and therefore it needed to go.
​

I do appreciate all the love and support you guys have given so far to this and I, along with the council, wanna continue to do the best we can at creating a stable yet fun meta. Feel free to continue to post Pokémon you guys enjoy using, some teams you're laddering with, and maybe even point out things you think should be on the watch list and why. Let's have some fun!

Tagging Kris to implement.

 

[CarrierPidove]

Cloyster @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear
- Surf

May i present a mon that i think is pretty wild
1008 DEF after a boost means that icicle spear is destroying almost anything
and ice shard is no slouch either

 

[LettuceLeaf07]

After messing around a bit, I wanted to share a webs team I've been spamming on low ladder. You either win because low ladder or you lose because your opponent has boots, scarf, or tailwind, making them outspeed your Electrode.

(click for paste)

Basically, you set up webs, send in Goodra/Cloyster, KO 4 mons or realize you are playing a skilled opponent, and clean with RegiElectrode. Avalugg removes hazards and sits in front of anything with physical moves, and hits back with a 500+ defense stat. You may want to consider a different move than avalanche because you may actually outspeed some slower stuff. I just threw Ceruledge on because its a ghost and I didn't want Gholdengo.

Goodra is crazy strong, with that base 150 SpD, assault vest, and huge movepool. Draco Meteor is basically free, EQ and Sludge Bomb hit most resists, and thunderbolt is basically filler.

Cloyster is the same, since between webs and its ridiculous defense stat, you don't really need setup to KO things.

Webs are really powerful in this format because now you outspeed your opponent, lower their attack 20% of the time, and you can still take hits because Cloyster and Goodra are insane.

I feel like it's easier to gravitate towards defensive mons in this format, because your 500+ defense is also an attack stat. I think there is something to be said for normal offensive mons having ways to get around things like Blissey by running a physical move, but I haven't explored that much.

 

[Zuldaar]

Sun Potential

Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Solar Beam
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rapid Spin

Scream Tail @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psychic Fangs
- Drain Punch
- Amnesia

Sandy Shocks @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Earthquake
- Volt Switch
- Tera Blast

Tinkaton (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Gigaton Hammer
- Ice Hammer
- Knock Off
- Draining Kiss

Slither Wing @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- First Impression
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower

Flutter Mane @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Mystical Fire

Haven't hit a rank above top10 so far, but I'm bad at the game, so I'm just spreading the word here about Drought and how good it is

 

[FakeFan0]

Ok I'm back with more stuff to throw ladder with.
Florges-Yellow @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Synthesis/Giga Drain
- Moonblast
- Stored Power
154 Spdef is a LOT. really, the worst part about this set is the lack of speed, which made espeon so good in gen6 with a similar set. However, tera grass allows Florges to FINALLY have a reasonable ability, and Flower Veil does good work for protecting grass Florges from certain moves.

Honchkrow @ Choice Band
Ability: Moxie
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Psychic
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Heat Wave
Choice Band Honchkrow can finally work now. Any Toxapex, Cloyster, or Avalugg that tries to switch into this could find themselves getting OHKOed or 2HKOed if they have special bulk. Heat Wave can hit Corviknight or Gholdengo? (idk any prominent steels in this meta but Heat Wave is for them) Also, Moxie.

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
Y'know that Espeon OU set from XY? Well, Umbreon has the same spdef stat as Espeon's spatk. Speed is a problem, but the incredible bulk you get instead can ensure you take maybe a few hits.

 

[Gimmicky]

Nobody's brought this up for around a week. Big shame, because it is a THREAT. I wouldn't say it's necessarily too much, but I've used it to great success.


Palafin @ Life Orb
Ability: Zero to Hero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Boomburst
- Jet Punch
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up

Boomburst hits as hard as a 93 BP STAB move (slightly outclassing Surf without the recoil of Wave Crash) as well as bypassing substitute/shed tail, AND targets Special Defense, meaning that physically bulky pokemon can't reliably answer this. Boomburst getting past substitute is huge, as it prevents Cyclizar or other set-up sweepers from setting up in front of base Palafin. Jet Punch, Drain Punch, and Bulk Up are self explanatory; Priority, Recovery + Coverage, and a boosting move.

Palafin actually becomes usable in its Zero Form! 328 is an acceptable offensive stat, especially with Boomburst. While Palafin-Hero obviously hits harder and is much preferred, this allows you to play mind games with your opponent-- will you switch out so you can have an even stronger hitter later in the game, or will you chunk whatever is trying to set up in front of you? Palafin-Hero, though, is the same monster it was in OU. With a starting offensive stat of 419, a 60 BP priority move, and the option to raise its power and bulk further, this thing is crazy.

 

[Badger]

Full Potential has always been one of my favorite OMs ever since I started playing competitively in Gen 7 (got 1st on the ladder that gen) and I'm super happy to have it back. This gen definitely has some outliers as far as what's really broken.

Firstly and 100% most importantly, Protosynthesis and Quark Drive mons. I do think Protosynthesis users are the bigger problem, but I'm just gonna group them up in one big thing as the Paradox Pokemon. The Abilities can act as a pseudo Swift Swim/SandRush, any of that, while the pokemon that get these abilities are not crippled and are in fact, still top tier, even without their weather condition.

Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle, Iron Valiant, Iron Jugulis, Iron Moth, Iron Treads, Roaring Moon, Scream Tail, and Sandy Shocks can all gain a speed boost from just existing in their element. This isn't the equivalent to swift swim users, but on the other hand Swift Swim was absurdly broken so taking it down half a step doesn't really fix the problem, especially when the coverage on the Paradox mons is absurd.

Protosynthesis mons are 100% better overall, but their status conditions are all negatable by another weather setter, one of which (Tyranitar) is a very good mon even without considering weather wars. However, if Scream Tail, Flutter Mane, or Sandy Shocks are out, it's not safe to even switch in a max HP, Max special defense AV ttar without risking getting 2 shot or severely chunked to the point where you will most likely lose the weather war.

Quark Drive abuses the fact that the only 2 terrains that can be set up are Electric Terrain and Psychic Terrain with abilities, and Indeedee is god awful and not worth using just to SORT of counter Quark Drive mons. The mons themselves aren't as good on average as their counterparts, but the fact that the terrain will most likely be up for the entire 8 turns is ridiculous in a metagame this fast.

I think if we consider banning drought and Electric Surge we will have solved at least part of the problem. However, banning Protosynthesis will most likely be the smarter idea overall, as Prankster Sunny Day isn't too hard to set up, especially with a mon with a decent speed tier like Grafaifai.

I would also like us to consider bringing back the item clause that we had in previous gens. Currently, Assault Vest, Choice Scarf, and sometimes eviolite are all the items that you really need and thus is extremely restricting on team building from both sides. Being forced to choose a main choice scarf sweeper and a main Assault Vest pokemon could prove to be insanely healthy for progressing the metagame. Down to talk more about this, but I think it's relatively self explanatory.

Finally, some other mons that should be looked into
- Chien Pao
-Flutter Mane (even if Drought/Sun gets banned)

Might be able to add to this more later, but on top of the other stuff getting suspected these 2 are insane with scarf and are worth considering a ban/suspect for.

Thank you for reading this if you did, super happy this meta is back!

 

[ponchlake]

Full Potential has always been one of my favorite OMs ever since I started playing competitively in Gen 7 (got 1st on the ladder that gen) and I'm super happy to have it back. This gen definitely has some outliers as far as what's really broken.

Firstly and 100% most importantly, Protosynthesis and Quark Drive mons. I do think Protosynthesis users are the bigger problem, but I'm just gonna group them up in one big thing as the Paradox Pokemon. The Abilities can act as a pseudo Swift Swim/SandRush, any of that, while the pokemon that get these abilities are not crippled and are in fact, still top tier, even without their weather condition.

Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle, Iron Valiant, Iron Jugulis, Iron Moth, Iron Treads, Roaring Moon, Scream Tail, and Sandy Shocks can all gain a speed boost from just existing in their element. This isn't the equivalent to swift swim users, but on the other hand Swift Swim was absurdly broken so taking it down half a step doesn't really fix the problem, especially when the coverage on the Paradox mons is absurd.

Protosynthesis mons are 100% better overall, but their status conditions are all negatable by another weather setter, one of which (Tyranitar) is a very good mon even without considering weather wars. However, if Scream Tail, Flutter Mane, or Sandy Shocks are out, it's not safe to even switch in a max HP, Max special defense AV ttar without risking getting 2 shot or severely chunked to the point where you will most likely lose the weather war.

Quark Drive abuses the fact that the only 2 terrains that can be set up are Electric Terrain and Psychic Terrain with abilities, and Indeedee is god awful and not worth using just to SORT of counter Quark Drive mons. The mons themselves aren't as good on average as their counterparts, but the fact that the terrain will most likely be up for the entire 8 turns is ridiculous in a metagame this fast.

I think if we consider banning drought and Electric Surge we will have solved at least part of the problem. However, banning Protosynthesis will most likely be the smarter idea overall, as Prankster Sunny Day isn't too hard to set up, especially with a mon with a decent speed tier like Grafaifai.

I would also like us to consider bringing back the item clause that we had in previous gens. Currently, Assault Vest, Choice Scarf, and sometimes eviolite are all the items that you really need and thus is extremely restricting on team building from both sides. Being forced to choose a main choice scarf sweeper and a main Assault Vest pokemon could prove to be insanely healthy for progressing the metagame. Down to talk more about this, but I think it's relatively self explanatory.

Finally, some other mons that should be looked into
- Chien Pao
-Flutter Mane (even if Drought/Sun gets banned)

Might be able to add to this more later, but on top of the other stuff getting suspected these 2 are insane with scarf and are worth considering a ban/suspect for.

Thank you for reading this if you did, super happy this meta is back!

Hello, thanks for the post and suggestions. You don't have to worry though. The council has been discussing a lot of the things you mentioned in this post. As far banning Protosynthesis goes, that's not something we can do without simply banning all of the Paradox Pokemon that have those abilities, as Protosynthesis is their only ability. If we wanted to hit Quark Drive or Protosynthesis, our options are to ban Drought and Electric Surge or all Paradox Pokemon outright.

 

[Badger]

Hello, thanks for the post and suggestions. You don't have to worry though. The council has been discussing a lot of the things you mentioned in this post. As far banning Protosynthesis goes, that's not something we can do without simply banning all of the Paradox Pokemon that have those abilities, as Protosynthesis is their only ability. If we wanted to hit Quark Drive or Protosynthesis, our options are to ban Drought and Electric Surge or all Paradox Pokemon outright.

Yeah that's why it's so rough, I don't wanna ban a bunch of stuff but they're clearly a huge issue and it's rough cuz they all got the same problem but are so different, as well as only having access to a single ability. Shit's rough out here.

 

[kenn]

Hey guys! We are about a third of the way through the month and the council has decided that it was time for another round of bans. in the hills decided to sit this vote out as they haven't had time to play. So without further ado, here are the results...

Scream Tail, Chien Pao, Iron Bundle, and Cyclizar are BANNED from Full Potential!!!​

Council Member Scream Tail Chien Pao Iron Bundle Toxapex Cyclizar kennukem Ban Ban Ban No Ban No Ban Kris Ban Ban Ban Abstain Ban KaenSoul Ban Ban Ban Abstain Ban ponchlake Ban Ban Ban Abstain Abstain

This Pokémon's statline was made for a meta like Full Potential. With a beautiful rounded bulk of 115 / 99 / 115 and a fantastic Speed stat of 111, it isn't a wonder why this thing was on nearly every team in Full Potential. While just stats can only carry you so far, Scream Tail also had access to one of the unique boosting moves to Full Potential in Amnesia, which allowed it to boost its already good 115 Special Defense stat with ease. It was also a fantastic partner for Torkoal, which set up Sun for it and gave it a Speed boost most of the time. With all that, it proved to be too much for the metagame and therefore was banned by a 4-0 vote.


As a member of the Ruin Quartet, Chien Pao found its way to making itself an even bigger name than it had in standard. It did so by being able to use its fantastic base 135 Speed stat to attack while also being able to utilize its special STAB (mainly Dark Pulse as it doesn't learn Ice Beam fsr lol). However, what pushed Chien Pao over the top was the fact that while it was fast, it also had priority in Ice Shard or Sucker Punch so it could use those to bypass the opponent trying to check it with their own priority. This meant that something had to either live a hit or outspeed it, which was rough to do when it is faster than all the Pokémon that do have priority. It was also able to get around most of the walls by virtue of its amazing STAB combo. With all this combined, it isn't a surprise that the council also banned this with an unanimous 4-0 vote.


I feel like there is something to be said about how we all never thought Delibird would be so good to be banned but it gets a Paradox forme and that is all it took apparently lol. Iron Bundle with its 136 Speed was one of the fastest threats once Dragapult left (barring Electrode) and it had all the tools it needed. As a Water/Ice type with access to Freeze-Dry, it had perfect neutral coverage in its STABs alone which allowed it to have space to run exactly what it wanted whether it was Play Rough, U-turn, or Agility. Big walls like Toxapex and Goodra couldn't handle being nailed by Freeze-Dry or Ice Spinner respectively. While it didn't have priority itself like Chien Pao and despite being frail on the special side, it's Defense stat was high enough to allow it to live most priority and therefore continue its reign of terror. That is until the council stepped in to ban it by another unanimous 4-0 vote.


As for Toxapex, the council still feels pretty ambivalent about it as while it has amazing defenses that it can either boost with Iron Defense or an AV, it is still slow and has issues with breaking things properly before boosts. It also has that paltry 50 HP which means the high bulk doesn't mean as much as it does normally since the power level is turned up to a 12 in Full Potential. We may revisit this after these bans to see how oppressive it may or may not be.


As for Cyclizar, the council is a bit more divided on it, but it now has an offensive stat thanks to its base 121 Speed stat as well as having immense utility with Shed Tail + Regenerator alongside moves like Knock Off and Rapid Spin. It also has a powerful STAB in Draco Meteor that it doesn't have to worry about getting weaker due to it lowering Special Attack and not Speed. By the skin of its teeth, it was voted out by a vote of 2-1-1.
​

With all this said, I hope everyone is enjoying and will continue to enjoy Full Potential after these bans are implemented by Kris
Edit: Found out that the 2-1-1 vote for Cyclizar was enough to ban it so updated this accordingly.

 

[KaenSoul]

You know, while I'm enjoying the tier quite a lot, there is a lot of stuff that just make it feel "broken".

While I usually don't mind Tera all that much on the other tiers I play, here it just feels like it makes all the problems the tier may have much worse, FP is very offensive, more than most formats, we are constantly trying to sweep the other or getting ready to counter sweep and Tera just make sure it stays that way, the monsters in this tier end being too much with the added damage on their stab or coverage move of choice and feels like everyone is already 2HKO each other if not 0HKO everything that doesn't resist.
I'm not sure if we should make a move on Tera this early, but would like to know how everyone else feels about it in the context of this tier.


Sun is quite crazy, and I'm still unsure on what's the best course of action here, Flutter Mane may have to go either way just like Scream Tail, but all the others past paradoxes should be a lot easier to handle if we get rid of Drought, or just Heat Rock if we want to try to keep as many of these elements as possible still in the tier, if we go with banning the paradoxes we would have to go for Roaring Moon, Slither Wing and Sandy Shocks on top of the first two mentioned, is just too much.


People have been talking about using Item Clause or a variation of it, but it really feels like a way to nerf Choice Scarf that would hurt the other relevant and more balanced items. I'm not even sure if I would call Scarf broken anyway, getting choice locked on the wrong move here can often be a dead sentence as giving a free turn to set up can easily end the game, but Scarf sure is stronger than usual as is pretty much Scarf+Band+Specs in a single item and is one of the reasons Chien-Pao was so strong and may be putting some other hyper fast mons over the edge. Can't figure out if I'm fine with it or not, but Item Clause doesn't seem like the way to go.

I'm also having serious doubts about Agility/Rock Polish, as they are pretty much Shell Smash, but don't drop defense and are learned by half of the game, is most likely fine tho, specially without Cyclizar, as trying to use set up moves without getting killed is quite hard if you aren't Iron Defense Toxapex.
So yeah would like to know if anyone agrees or disagree with me or if there is anything else that may be a problem in the tier, we should really try to reach some acceptable level of balance while it still has a ladder.

 

[ponchlake]

You know, while I'm enjoying the tier quite a lot, there is a lot of stuff that just make it feel "broken".

View attachment 472779
While I usually don't mind Tera all that much on the other tiers I play, here it just feels like it makes all the problems the tier may have much worse, FP is very offensive, more than most formats, we are constantly trying to sweep the other or getting ready to counter sweep and Tera just make sure it stays that way, the monsters in this tier end being too much with the added damage on their stab or coverage move of choice and feels like everyone is already 2HKO each other if not 0HKO everything that doesn't resist.
I'm not sure if we should make a move on Tera this early, but would like to know how everyone else feels about it in the context of this tier.


Sun is quite crazy, and I'm still unsure on what's the best course of action here, Flutter Mane may have to go either way just like Scream Tail, but all the others past paradoxes should be a lot easier to handle if we get rid of Drought, or just Heat Rock if we want to try to keep as many of these elements as possible still in the tier, if we go with banning the paradoxes we would have to go for Roaring Moon, Slither Wing and Sandy Shocks on top of the first two mentioned, is just too much.


People have been talking about using Item Clause or a variation of it, but it really feels like a way to nerf Choice Scarf that would hurt the other relevant and more balanced items. I'm not even sure if I would call Scarf broken anyway, getting choice locked on the wrong move here can often be a dead sentence as giving a free turn to set up can easily end the game, but Scarf sure is stronger than usual as is pretty much Scarf+Band+Specs in a single item and is one of the reasons Chien-Pao was so strong and may be putting some other hyper fast mons over the edge. Can't figure out if I'm fine with it or not, but Item Clause doesn't seem like the way to go.

I'm also having serious doubts about Agility/Rock Polish, as they are pretty much Shell Smash, but don't drop defense and are learned by half of the game, is most likely fine tho, specially without Cyclizar, as trying to use set up moves without getting killed is quite hard if you aren't Iron Defense Toxapex.
So yeah would like to know if anyone agrees or disagree with me or if there is anything else that may be a problem in the tier, we should really try to reach some acceptable level of balance while it still has a ladder.

1) I agree with you on Tera. The meta is fast enough without it, but adding the element of Tera makes things way stronger than they already are.
2) I think a hit to both Drought and Heat Rock might be necessary. Drought for obvious reasons since it enables Protosynthesis while allowing them to run items like Choice Scarf to further increase Speed. Fluttermane should go as well. Heat Rock may need to go because of manual setters like Klefki, but I think that the powerlevel of Paradox teams might go down with Fluttermane's ban.
3) I'm not sure how we can go about nerfing this, but I like having Choice Scarf in the meta in some form even if it's with item clause.
4) I'm starting to come around on that as well. I don't think they're as much of a problem anymore

 

[CarrierPidove]

After doing a bit of laddering i want to give some thoughts on how powerful and underlooked priority is in the meta especially against the faster teams

Lucario @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Extreme Speed
- Bullet Punch

Having priority in a metagame as fastpaced as this lets Lucario really shine, after a turn of setup it hits the multiple choice scarfers going around hard, and with rocks up can even be a very threatening mid to late game sweeper, only thing that really hurts it is the fact that its not bulky enough to live most hits without sash so you need to be very careful when using it

Bisharp @ Eviolite
Ability: Defiant
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Iron Defense
- Dark Pulse
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head/Flash cannon

Another example of a great steel with priority, run over Kingambit since the eviolite boost makes it hit even harder after an iron defense
dark pulse lets it hit physically bulky mons like iron defense Toxapex while sucker punch deals with faster threats

Slither Wing @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- First Impression
- Flame Charge/Rock Slide
- Earthquake

Final set, First Impression hits hard if you dont resist it, and the few who do resist it usually get hit hard by the coverage, assault vest means it can live a hit from most special attackers and hit back hard and the Tera Fire can surprise Flutter Manes thinking of switching in to revenge kill it. Really struggles against Talonflame though which is why rock slide is an option but pairing it up with electrode or even gargancl on more bulky teams is what i would recommend

 

[Turtlek]

Where did you play this tier? You say it was on every team but where were teams used?

 

[in the hills]

Where did you play this tier? You say it was on every team but where were teams used?

Full Potential is currently Leader's Choice, which means it has a ladder on the main PS! server for the month of December

 

[ponchlake]

The Queen (Tinkaton) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Gigaton Hammer
- Draining Kiss
- Play Rough
- Brick Break
Lemme tell y'all about a little something called TINKATON SUPREMACY. FP has somehow made this thing really good, and now it's an S-tier mon. I'm willing to fight ANYONE on that. TINKATON SUPREMACY UNTIL THE WHEELS FALL OFF. USE TINKATON

Peak

 

[ponchlake]

Hello everyone, your FP council has recently held a pretty important vote. Here are the results...

Drought, Flutter Mane, Terastallization, and Heat Rock have been banned from Full Potential​

	Kennukem	Kris	in the hills	ponchlake	KaenSoul	Results
Drought	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban
Flutter Mane	Ban	Ban	Abstain	Ban	Ban	Ban
Terastallization	Ban	Do Not Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban
Heat Rock	Abstain	Abstain	Do Not Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban

Sun has been on the council's watchlist since day one, and it ultimately proved to be too powerful in enabling the multitude of powerful Protosynthesis Paradox Pokemon. Teams entirely composed of Paradox Pokemon with Torkoal were some of the strongest teams around, so in an effort to nerf those teams, the council has elected to ban Drought. Heat Rock was banned for similar reasons. Although not nearly as powerful as Torkoal's Drought, Klefki is a suitable manual setter with access to other great utility moves. Ultimately, Sun likely would have persisted with Heat Rock, so it was banned as well.



Fluttermane is one of the fastest Pokemon in the tier, making it an offensive juggernaut when equipped with a Choice Scarf or under Sun. Even with the Drought Ban, Flutter Mane would still be too powerful for the tier due to its incredible offensive typing, movepool, and streamlined stats. Tinkaton was the only AV wall that could comfortably check Flutter Mane. I say "comfortably" lightly here, as Tinkaton is liable to get 3HKO'd by Flutter Mane and easily worn down. Other AV walls such as Goodra or Toxapex fear Flutter Mane's coverage, and the speed paired with a Choice Scarf allowed it to steamroll offensive teams.

Terrastallization:
Arguably the biggest ban we've had (potentially even the most controversial). I won't speak too much into Tera, as I'd simply be repeating points you'd find just about anywhere else whenever Terastallization is discussed. The shortened version is that meta of FP is incredibly fast paced due to practically everything in the meta being an offensive behemoth. The type changing ability provided by Terastallization only served to push the tempo even further, making the meta's already potent threats into nukes. With games sometimes coming down to trading kills, the ability to disrupt your opponent by unexpectedly changing into a type they cannot handle would outright win you the game. The meta is sufficiently fast enough without the added benefits of Tera. Therefore we've banned Terastallization in FP.

Tagging Kris to implement

 

[Keyacom]

All of these mons are pretty fast, and that's why I'm including them on this team. The Speed stat is taken advantage of for strong moves.

• Jolteon might have Electro Ball to deal with slower, defensive mons, or a regular Thunderbolt. It can still deal with mons that, when the battle starts, are just as fast as Jolteon. The Flame Orb will activate the Quick Feet Ability.
• Talonflame has the Boots and Defog, so it can get rid of Stealth Rocks. It's the only mon here that has Flame Charge, the rest have Trailblaze or Agility.
• Weavile can have Surf for Fire coverage, or Poison Jab for Fairy coverage. (No Triple Axel or Knock Off because the Pokémon HOME update isn't out yet.)
• In case of Meowscarada, the higher Speed is to make sure the stat reduction from Leaf Storm doesn't affect it. I prefer Leaf Storm over Flower Trick mostly because, even with Flower Trick's guaranteed crit, its effective power does not surpass that of Leaf Storm (70 * 1.5 < 130).
• Hawlucha has Mold Breaker because Unburden is banned. Regardless, it has a Normal Gem to power up its Body Slam once and Acrobatics permanently.
• Wugtrio likes to have Gooey, Sash, and Earth Power to deal with fast Electric mons. It can also Terastallize to the Ground type.

I could have included Quaquaval for its Aqua Step, but I decided not to, as I already have a Water-type and a Fighting-type, and Quaquaval has less than 100 base Speed. I aimed for type diversity as well.

 

[kenn]

So it has been a short minute since the last ban slate, but the Full Potential Council has been hard at work trying to figure out how to approach the issue of Speed in this meta as it has continued to be a problem despite the bans on major threats such as Espathra, Flutter Mane, and more. So without further ado...

Tailwind and Choice Scarf have been BANNED from Full Potential!​

kennukem Kris in the hills ponchlake KaenSoul Results Tailwind BAN BAN BAN BAN BAN 5-0 BAN Choice Scarf BAN BAN BAN BAN BAN 5-0 BAN

Explanation

The biggest debate was whether or not to ban Tailwind or the main abusers in Talonflame and Kilowattrel but the council ultimately decided that the issue was Tailwind and not necessarily the abusers. I think in the hills said it best when we had our chat about it earlier today that if you look at Tailwind like weather, then you can see just hoe broken it truly is.

Logs

[17:49:50] in the hills: tailwind doesnt seem much different of an aspect than weather in that it benefits the entire team and in this case would be something worth banning
[17:50:26] in the hills: weather tends to be an exception when it comes to tiering in that you typically look towards the weather itself rather than abusers earlier than most other things
[17:50:41] in the hills: and i'd say this is a pretty similar case

So with that, Tailwind was voted on and subsequently banned unanimously 5-0

Explanation

The reason that Choice Scarf was deemed too powerful in Full Potential boils down to a simple fact: it not only provided the Speed boost it does naturally, but a power boost as well allowing the fast mons to not only be faster, but to also have them hit harder. While it does still lock you into a move as Choice items do, it does more than that by providing essentially a +1/+1/+1 to all offensive stats. Therefore, instead of implementing something like an Item Clause, which would negatively effect the other items that aren't broken, we dediced that Choice Scarf was too much power for one item and said bye bye to it with another unanimous 5-0 vote.

Hopefully as we are hitting the middle of the month, the rest of this month can be used to continue growing and building this metagame, having fun, and enjoying ourselves. Definitely love seeing the sample teams as those are extremely helpful as well as all the feedback in the room. Let's finish this month, and year, off strong!

 

[AIPS]

Here's a fun set using a fun mon:

HOTWHEELS (Carkol) @ Eviolite
Ability: Steam Engine
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rock Blast
- Overheat
- Bulldoze / Rock Gem
- Rapid Spin / Body Slam

Carkol is faster than Coalossal and bulkier w/ Eviolite, so all you need to to is to switch in to a fire move and sweep
Toxapex needs to get weakened a bit, as to ohko it you'll need 5 high rolls on Rock Blast, but still is a 2hko nontheless.
Coverage wise kinda lacking, but Rock/Fire is a good STAB combo, not to mention that Overheat hits hard a lot of stuff:
+6 252+ SpA Carkol Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Florges: 183-216 (50.8 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So yea, you just need mons that bait fire moves, like Forretress, and do a chunk to anything.

When Tera was allowed, I used Tera water, to stay vs the pex and ko it

 

[ponchlake]

I neglected to make a post while my ELO was absurdly high at around 1550-1560, which has now decayed to the ELO you seen right now. With the ladder slowing to a crawl as the month comes to an end and the New Year approaching, I don't expect to play anymore of the ladder or climb back up my points. I don't have any teams to share unfortunately, because we've been hitting just about everything I've been using.. so yeah there's that. I will give some of my thoughts on the meta and open potential discussion the next time the meta rolls around. Although it is likely that we may be playing with Pokemon Home the next time the FP ladder rolls around. That said here are some of my thoughts: the meta is really fun. I love the hyper-fast paced of the meta. Even though this meta allows you to stack your offensive stats to the roof, there is still a skill gap in this meta, which being able to build and then actually play. It does feel like you are rewarded for building well in this meta as opposed to just stacking things that are OP.

I'm gonna give a quick summary of what I've found to work with teambuilding: 1) Run 2-3 super fat mons. FP is a numbers game, so being able to survive and tank MU's allows you to get the advantage. I've seen too many teams try to stack offensive nukes and just fail whenever something that remotely checks them. Run a good defensive core that can cover each other's weaknesses is a fundamental teambuilding skill that seems to get neglected here, and that's what I think you should always start with even in FP, especially since your walls can throw off nukes of their own. 2) Have priority on your team. Someone previously made a post about priority, so I won't get into it too much. Priority is very powerful and a great way to revenge kill ultra-fast Pokemon. 3) Speaking of which, the rest of your offensive threats should be fast. Everything else on my team besides my defensive core are all incredibly fast or can boost Speed. Speed is arguably the most broken mechanic in FP (even with out Scarf), especially in an HO meta like this one. Pretty much the rule of thumb for building in FP is the 2 F's. Face-tanking and Fast AF. You want a balance of those two things. Anyways, I will share my old FP team (I stole this from Ken and changed it to my liking) that I initially got to #1 with.

I think the next thing we could talk about is Quark Drive. I'll be brief, but Quark Drive hasn't been good from the start of the ladder. That said, enough things have been hit to open up the way for Quark Drive to potentially flourish. We don't have enough of a sample size or time on our hands to really determine how powerful it is, meaning it is entirely speculation until the next ladder occurs. If anyone has any cool replays with Quark Drive or has any experience running it or into it, please feel free to share them in this thread.

Beyond that, have a happy holidays everyone. Thanks for a successful first run and reboot. Your FP council is very thankful for the support that led to FP getting chosen for Leader's Choice, as well as the continued support during the life-span of the ladder.