Gallade (Lead)

[husk]

[SET]
name: Lead
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Zen Headbutt
move 3: Shadow Sneak
move 4: Ice Punch
item: Life Orb
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

I've been using this exact set up for a bit (note the removed /'s) and I really like the lead. I've been pairing it with forry as forry can set up on rachi/meta/pert/hippo/etc(though you technically beat pert). I like preserving Gallade's hp because with 284 speed and that monstrous attack+nice coverage it has great use mid-game and the priority is great late game. That combo of two pokemon really only loses to Roserade. Maybe mention that somewhere?

Lum really isn't a good option as you miss out on the ko on both azelf and machamp which are pretty big imo. Gallade also loses pretty much all use mid/late game without the extra power given by life orb.

 

[MetaNite]

I guess my post about how this thing is outclassed by a simple Swords Dance / Close Combat / ICe Punch / Shadow Sneak @ Lum Berry Gallade jus went ignored.... Main thing being "midgame significance" which this Life Orb set pretty much lacks...

I did address your post. Did you not here how TWO Shadow Sneaks doesn't kill the #1 Lead Azelf even half the time? Have you like ever used a Fighting-type, ever, in your life? So you are saying a Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO Heatran, 2HKO Skarmory, do up to 85% to Scizor, do at least 63% to Gengar with priority, LACKS midgame significance because it doesn't have Swords Dance??? Wow. Gallade should not be trying to sweep. This metagame is pretty offensive and people are gutsy. I'd rather hit Scizor on the switch with Close Combat than be forced out after trying to use Swords Dance. Due to Gallade's middling Speed and low Defense, it is much better used as a hit and run sweeper. Use it as if it was holding a Choice Band, because for the most part you will be forced out after you kill something. You need prediction to be most effective.

Okay so without Adamant, Lum Berry really has no use. I will remove that and mention Forretress. Although I'm not writing the analysis, I hope they can use it as a springboard. Thank you husk.

 

[TAY]

I have been using the same Gallade lead as Husk to similar results (but with skarm over forry)...just thought it would be worth mentioning that using Ice Punch on the first turn instead of Shadow Sneak is probably better against Azelf. You deal like 98% min with Ice Punch + SS so you probably have the KO anyway, and it encourages the opponent to keep azelf in to go for the explosion or whatever. Any competent Azelf player would just switch out after using SR and taking 52% or whatever from shadow sneak.

I mean I guess you get screwed against Reflect lead but those are pretty rare anyway!

EDIT: Yeah wow I totally forgot about CC...use that not Ice Punch!

 

[RaikouLover]

I did address your post. Did you not here how TWO Shadow Sneaks doesn't kill the #1 Lead Azelf even half the time? Have you like ever used a Fighting-type, ever, in your life? So you are saying a Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO Heatran, 2HKO Skarmory, do up to 85% to Scizor, do at least 63% to Gengar with priority, LACKS midgame significance because it doesn't have Swords Dance??? Wow. Gallade should not be trying to sweep.

Gallade can do the same with the same Swords Dance set... Why would I mention it if it couldn't? I'm not theorymoning this bullshit. And Azelf depends on its spread since a lot of people are running HP EVs on them these days to prevent cheap KOs like that. I already went down the list of what this set beats that a Swords Dance can't and pose a sweeping threat at the same time and came up with... nothing.

Have you like ever used a Fighting-type, ever, in your life?

Yes.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

I have been using the same Gallade lead as Husk to similar results (but with skarm over forry)...just thought it would be worth mentioning that using Ice Punch on the first turn instead of Shadow Sneak is probably better against Azelf. You deal like 98% min with Ice Punch + SS so you probably have the KO anyway, and it encourages the opponent to keep azelf in to go for the explosion or whatever. Any competent Azelf player would just switch out after using SR and taking 52% or whatever from shadow sneak.

I mean I guess you get screwed against Reflect lead but those are pretty rare anyway!

Use Close Combat instead. It's got 90 BP, guaranteeing the kill.

Gallade can do the same with the same Swords Dance set... Why would I mention it if it couldn't? I'm not theorymoning this bullshit. And Azelf depends on its spread since a lot of people are running HP EVs on them these days to prevent cheap KOs like that. I already went down the list of what this set beats that a Swords Dance can't and pose a sweeping threat at the same time and came up with... nothing.

Okay, so you used Swords Dance as Azelf SR'd. Now you're definitely going to OHKO it with Shadow Sneak, right?

*focus sash activates, Azelf explodes on Gallade, killing it instantly*

"oops"

The majority of actually important leads still run Focus Sash to prevent exactly that form of bullshit. Azelf (sashed are still more common even though colbur is better imo), Aerodactyl, Infernape, Roserade. On top of that, you also have to either run Lum Berry or pray against Machamp. Also, if Machamp decides to be classy and Payback you while you SD...

Payback vs. 0/0 Jolly Gallade: 61.2% - 71.9%
Bullet Punch vs. 0/0 Jolly Gallade: 24.5% - 29.1%

You're looking at a very solid chance to be 2HKOed by the combination. Swords Dance over Zen Headbutt allows you to be beaten or crippled by 5 leads that didn't stand a chance against you before. That's the very image of inefficiency, IMO. Swords Dance doesn't fit, end of story.

 

[TAY]

Swords Dance on Gallade lead is a bad idea (I mean come on you still lose to sashmons and it will probably just be revenge killed; you're better off taking the quick KO or force out and retaining a high health pokemon...it's good as anti-stall tech but stall is fairly rare on the ladder. Sounds like AC to me.), but to be fair, that damage range (which is actually for 4/0 Gallade) is not a "very solid chance" of 2HKOing Gallade. It is a 2.3% chance of KOing Gallade.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Shit, my bad. I did my math wrong. Thanks.

Still. SD on Lead Gallade is pretty garbage.

 

[Phantom_IV]

Okay, so you used Swords Dance as Azelf SR'd. Now you're definitely going to OHKO it with Shadow Sneak, right?

*focus sash activates, Azelf explodes on Gallade, killing it instantly*

"oops"

The majority of actually important leads still run Focus Sash to prevent exactly that form of bullshit. Azelf (sashed are still more common even though colbur is better imo), Aerodactyl, Infernape, Roserade. On top of that, you also have to either run Lum Berry or pray against Machamp. Also, if Machamp decides to be classy and Payback you while you SD...

Payback vs. 0/0 Jolly Gallade: 61.2% - 71.9%
Bullet Punch vs. 0/0 Jolly Gallade: 24.5% - 29.1%

You're looking at a very solid chance to be 2HKOed by the combination. Swords Dance over Zen Headbutt allows you to be beaten or crippled by 5 leads that didn't stand a chance against you before. That's the very image of inefficiency, IMO. Swords Dance doesn't fit, end of story.

Okay SDS, you know better than that. Just because you have SD doesn't mean you use it every time against lead Azelf. CC+Shadow Sneak KO's 100% of the time against 4/0 versions.

And like TAY pointed out, Machamp has a very very small chance of 2HKO'ing you. Swords Dance is infinitely better against pokes such as Metagross, Swampert, Hippo, even non-scarf Jirachi. It's better in any case where you don't need Psychic coverage, which pretty much all match-ups that don't involve Machamp.

 

[supermarth64]

Okay SDS, you know better than that. Just because you have SD doesn't mean you use it every time against lead Azelf. CC+Shadow Sneak KO's 100% of the time against 4/0 versions.

4/0 Naive Focus Sash Azelf

vs. 252 Adamant Lum Berry Gallade Close Combat : 47.9% - 56.5%
vs. 252 Adamant Lum Berry Gallade Shadow Sneak : 43.2% - 51.4%
vs. 252 Adamant Lum Berry Gallade +2 Shadow Sneak : 85.6% - 101.4%

I did the calcs: CC + Shadow Sneak has appropriately a 41% chance of 2HKOing 4/0 Azelf.

This is to disprove both RL and Phantom as a resisted Close Combat does more than Shadow Sneak. Hell a +2 Shadow Sneak can't even OHKO non-Sash Azelf 100% of the time.

 

[Phantom_IV]

4/0 Naive Focus Sash Azelf

vs. 252 Adamant Lum Berry Gallade Close Combat : 47.9% - 56.5%
vs. 252 Adamant Lum Berry Gallade Shadow Sneak : 43.2% - 51.4%
vs. 252 Adamant Lum Berry Gallade +2 Shadow Sneak : 85.6% - 101.4%

I did the calcs: CC + Shadow Sneak has appropriately a 41% chance of 2HKOing 4/0 Azelf.

This is to disprove both RL and Phantom as a resisted Close Combat does more than Shadow Sneak. Hell a +2 Shadow Sneak can't even OHKO non-Sash Azelf 100% of the time.

LO is the primary slash. Just SD > Zen Headbutt

 

[RaikouLover]

Lum Berry really is only for Machamp.

And like TAY pointed out, Machamp has a very very small chance of 2HKO'ing you. Swords Dance is infinitely better against pokes such as Metagross, Swampert, Hippo, even non-scarf Jirachi. It's better in any case where you don't need Psychic coverage, which pretty much all match-ups that don't involve Machamp.

This. Zen Headbutt is ONLY for Machamp. Unless we are riding Machamp's dick so hard as to make omitting one moveslot a bad idea? This set right here as it is without Swords Dance is something I wouldn't use over my own Machamp to begin with.

Swords Dance doesn't fit, end of story.

You have no case as to how having the option to boost your attack is a "bad." That's pretty silly.

 

[firecape]

The thing is, if you are using SD / CC / (Ice Punch / Stone Edge) / Shadow Sneak with a Life Orb, you are pretty much using the Swords Dance set on site with Shadow Sneak in the third moveslot over a Psychic move. Maybe a mention there of a lead being possible, but I don't think it deserves its own set at that point.

 

[RaikouLover]

Thats kind of the point, firecape. Most fighting pokemon can work decently well in the lead slot because their typing has few weaknesses in OU and the majority of them are bulky enough to take a hit bar Infernape.

 

[Zystral]

SD is bad on this set because you lose coverage and gain essentially nothing. The whole point of the set is that it is an extremely effective lead thanks to it's coverage, and as a result, ability to hit nearly every lead extremely hard. Hard enough to KO, anyway. In fact, 252 Atk Close Combat OHKOes Azelf. Does at least 110%, as a matter of fact. The only possible reason I can see you would use SD for is so that Gallade has more late/mid game utility. but why the fuck would I reduce the effectiveness of such a good lead when I have like 3 other spaces and tons of better choices for late game sweeping? This set sells on being an effective lead that isn't useless mid game like most others, stop trying to improve an added bonus that shouldn't need to be improved.

 

[Phantom_IV]

SD is bad on this set because you lose coverage and gain essentially nothing. The whole point of the set is that it is an extremely effective lead thanks to it's coverage, and as a result, ability to hit nearly every lead extremely hard. Hard enough to KO, anyway. In fact, 252 Atk Close Combat OHKOes Azelf. Does at least 110%, as a matter of fact. The only possible reason I can see you would use SD for is so that Gallade has more late/mid game utility. but why the fuck would I reduce the effectiveness of such a good lead when I have like 3 other spaces and tons of better choices for late game sweeping? This set sells on being an effective lead that isn't useless mid game like most others, stop trying to improve an added bonus that shouldn't need to be improved.

Actually, it doesn't OHKO Azelf, maxing out at 74% with Adamant LO CC. In addition to this, SD is very useful against the numerous leads that don't run sash and are 2HKO'ed, such as Metagross, Swampert, etc. It's especially helpful to avoid the defense drop that CC gives and pose more of a threat to a second pokemon.

 

[MetaNite]

Zen Headbutt is not ONLY for Machamp. It is about "ONLY for Machamp" as Shadow Sneak is for Azelf. It also hits Gyarados for 30 more base power than Close Combat, 2HKOing offensive Gyarados after Stealth Rock and Intimidate. It also hits Rotom-A for 40 more BO than Shadow Sneak, killing offensive Rotom-A with a combination of that and Shadow Sneak.

 

[Nemomon]

This guy should have Leaf Blade to 1HKO Lead Swampert, but Ice punch helps Gallade to kill Dragonite Lead. Earthquake can be used too for Heatrans and Jirachi.

 

[firecape]

This guy should have Leaf Blade to 1HKO Lead Swampert, but Ice punch helps Gallade to kill Dragonite Lead. Earthquake can be used too for Heatrans and Jirachi.

What? Leaf Blade is only useful for Swampert, who can't do much anyways, but Close Combat OHKOes Heatran where as neither EQ or CC kill Jirachi, and Scarfrachi still outspeeds you even if you get a steadfast boost from the first flinch, and will likely flinch you to death.

 

[Plus]

I've tried Gallade as a lead before, and Leaf Blade was too highly specialized and I didn't like using it as much. Perhaps you do not enjoy the low accuracy Hypnosis brings to the table, but I enjoy using Hypnosis in the fourth slot of that set in order to sleep Hippowdon, forretress, and swampert, generally any bulky or slow lead that you can't break will usually take a sleep, which is very useful. Worst case scenario is it misses, but it's not too bad considering you can use Gallade late game and give your opponent a scare by threatening a sleep. It's a high risk high reward move, and I like taking that risk. Hypnosis has the potential to cover things you previously couldn't with any other move Gallade has in its disposal because it prevents your opponent from making a move. Furthermore, it is another option that Gallade has that Machamp lacks, and is one of the main reasons I would use Gallade over Machamp. Sleep is good.

Other than that I'd like to see a slash or a mention of hypnosis in the set and I'll approve.

eDiT: good job metanite thats how i taught you

koala tea control approved {1/3}

 

[Myzozoa]

I'm just wondering why ice punch is on this set, it seems like close combat/stone edge is doing more damage to everything except gliscor and dragonite (who takes a ton of damage from stone edge anyway). Zen Headbutt is super effective on roserade and close combat does more damage to aerodactyl than super effective ice punch, the only reason to use ice punch is if you want a move that has reliable accuracy(which i guess is a good reason). So yeah Im just wondering about that, as gliscor is not as common a lead as it once was.

 

[RaikouLover]

SD is bad on this set because you lose coverage and gain essentially nothing. The whole point of the set is that it is an extremely effective lead thanks to it's coverage, and as a result, ability to hit nearly every lead extremely hard.

Lose coverage on what? Care to explain? You can't. Fighting / Ice / Ghost is perfect coverage. And you gain +2 with a Swords Dance. It's just as beneficial to set up a Dance and OHKO Machamp and do major damage to Hippo and Pert than it is to just attack them for 2HKOs. But I guess since the community is so hell bent on "this is my set and it only works this way adding something else to it is stupid" we are making silly posts like this calling SD "useless." It's not like you HAVE to use SD against everything it is just there for slower leads that give you a free turn while they set up Stealth Rock. What is so hard to understand about that?

Other than that I'd like to see a slash or a mention of hypnosis in the set and I'll approve.

Hypnosis gets a slash or mention but Swords Dance doesn't?

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Hypnosis gets a slash or mention but Swords Dance doesn't?

Neither gets a mention IMO. Hypnosis is gimmicky and unreliable, and I don't want it getting a mention.

As for Swords Dance, if you're using LO, then that KO from Machamp comes back into play, as Machamp has a very, VERY good chance of dealing at least 90% damage and KOing you before you can do anything. You also lose your strongest move against Gyarados (if not running stone edge, though i can see why stone edge would be better), and you also lose coverage on some dumb yet interesting stuff, such as Tentacruel. For what? Swords Dance isn't very good midgame, and it's barely better in the lead position because you can SD against Pert.

 

[Towelie]

Wait what... Gallade resists DynamicPunch and uses Lum with Swords Dance. It also takes neutral from Payback. iirc it does like 50 % tops??? Stone Edge + Shadow Sneak Kos roserade and sometimes KOs azelf. +2 Stone Edge does a shitload to Tentacruel and you deal massive damage to pert with +2 close combat. beating both sleep leads is a plus too.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Wait what... Gallade resists DynamicPunch and uses Lum with Swords Dance. It also takes neutral from Payback. iirc it does like 50 % tops??? Stone Edge + Shadow Sneak Kos roserade and sometimes KOs azelf. +2 Stone Edge does a shitload to Tentacruel and you deal massive damage to pert with +2 close combat. beating both sleep leads is a plus too.

Payback vs. 4/0 Jolly Gallade: 61.2% - 71.9%
Bullet Punch vs. 4/0 Jolly Gallade: 24.5% - 29.1%

reading is fun itt

They're advocating a LO set. As such, noting that LO without Zen Headbutt makes you lose outright to Machamp (where one of the big draws of this set is beating the ever-loving pants off of Machamp as well as a bunch of other cool leads) means that SD causes you to lose CRUCIAL COVERAGE in the current metagame. Trading crucial coverage for a dubious boosting move? No thanks.

 

[RaikouLover]

They're advocating a LO set. As such, noting that LO without Zen Headbutt makes you lose outright to Machamp (where one of the big draws of this set is beating the ever-loving pants off of Machamp as well as a bunch of other cool leads) means that SD causes you to lose CRUCIAL COVERAGE in the current metagame. Trading crucial coverage for a dubious boosting move? No thanks.

Crucial coverage? No. Zen Headbutt is ONLY for Machamp, which you beat with Lum Berry - Swords Dance / Close Combat / (Ice Punch or Stone Edge / Shadow Sneak which is what I have been saying from the beginning. That set has been the Gallade lead staple since early DP (anyone whos played that long knows that).

@Towelie its clearly just to make me look like an idiot. Funny how when I suggest Psychic or Zen Headbutt in other analyses I get bitched at because of "horrible type coverage" yet on this set its "crucuial."

So Swords Dance in this instance has turned from one of the most gamebreaking moves to a dubious boosting move... whatever man.

Swords Dance isn't very good midgame

lol.