It is already stacked well with its STAB attacks and Knock off, aside that Togekiss would rather opt to paralyze then proceed to attempt flinching (either way its not an ideal match up). The ability is lack luster, least more on singles, since flinching isn't all that common especially with the drop of popularity in Togekiss and Jirachi, who now find themselves in UU, that the ability is largely unused for most part. That aside it has already been discussed to death, it is just lack luster, so no dwelling on it further since it was at least blessed with more reliable stats, which is the entire issue with inner focus reliability (again flinching is far too rare or negligible at this point).
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Pokémon Gallade
- Thread starter Rosen
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It is already stacked well with its STAB attacks and Knock off, aside that Togekiss would rather opt to paralyze then proceed to attempt flinching (either way its not an ideal match up). The ability is lack luster, least more on singles, since flinching isn't all that common especially with the drop of popularity in Togekiss and Jirachi, who now find themselves in UU, that the ability is largely unused for most part. That aside it has already been discussed to death, it is just lack luster, so no dwelling on it further since it was at least blessed with more reliable stats, which is the entire issue with inner focus reliability (again flinching is far too rare or negligible at this point).
This is much like how mega slowbro got shell armor. It's not a bad ability or a hinderance but when u consider all the other awesome ability's it could have gotten you start to consider about how underwhelming the ability is. However, it's even worse for gallade because crits are much more common than flinches. They could have given it something like turning normal type attacks into fighting or psyhcic type attacks or iron fist and this thing would be even bettter. But regardless it's still pretty good though
What partners for Gallade have you found to be best for you/your team? For me, a Rotom-W/Landorus-T/CB Scizor core has worked out pretty well, as they provide defensive sinergy, (slow) U-turn/Volt-Switch, and they all appreciate Gallade's grand wallbreaking power. Things like Char Y are somewhat problematic if SR is not up and Gallade has not MEvolved yet, but teammates can solve that (Ex.: Tentacruel handles non-EQ variants and provides spin support).
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Inner focus doesn't make you immune to Fake out though
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 57-68 (20.5 - 24.5%)
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Ambipom Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 110-133 (39.7 - 48%)
Fake out still does a good amount of dmg.
Heres air slash:
8 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 168-200 (60.6 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Rare for jirachi to come, but:
252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 126-148 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
I can only really see Inner focus somehwat good in doubles/VGC, fake out is everywhere.
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 57-68 (20.5 - 24.5%)
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Ambipom Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 110-133 (39.7 - 48%)
Fake out still does a good amount of dmg.
Heres air slash:
8 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 168-200 (60.6 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Rare for jirachi to come, but:
252+ Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 126-148 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
I can only really see Inner focus somehwat good in doubles/VGC, fake out is everywhere.
You're missing the very important point that if you fake out Gallade, you instantly lose your Weavile to a Close Combat. (lol ambipom)
now jesus can we just move on; Gladio brings up the good point about cores. There's already one on the Good Cores thread I like - Gallade, Bisharp and Washtom - but some discussion on potential other cores would be pretty rad
I think the main point we learn here is that when your opponent has a Gallade, we can no longer safely use Fake Out for chip damage or safe megavolution. In the case of both MLop and MMedi, they both need Fake Out to safely mega (in certain cases) and this forces your opponent into an undesirable scenario because they cannot get their megavolution off without risking losing their megas.
Can we please stop discussing fake out? Yes, it has limited use in singles, and is pretty great in doubles.
I'm very happy Gallade has such a great stat distribution, it really is his saving grace which will help him be viable in OU.
I'm looking for a good offensive core using M-Gallade. I'm thinking either Weavile/Bisharp, but then who else?
I'm very happy Gallade has such a great stat distribution, it really is his saving grace which will help him be viable in OU.
I'm looking for a good offensive core using M-Gallade. I'm thinking either Weavile/Bisharp, but then who else?
In this case, Rotom-W would work very well, as both Gallade and Weavile/Bisharp are very susceptible to Talonflame (and CS Landorus-T in case you are using Bisharp, although it cannot always safely switch in as it fears Ice Punch/Knock Off/Bisharp's Defiant) and the washing machine can take on the bird and double as a slow Volt-Switcher to safely bring in Gallade/Weavile/whatever.
Speaking of cores, after testing my offensive core some more, I'd say Gallade works well with CB Scizor too; Scizor has powerful priority as well, it can beat Fairies more reliabily than Bisharp (It can actually switch in on Pixelate Hyper Voice/Moonblast while Bisharp struggles doing so, and it's also a better check to Mega Gardevoir, which I'm kinda weak to), while it can also grab momentum with U-turn and Pursuit-trap the likes of the Latis and Gengar; Gallade, on the other hand, sets up without much problem on the things that trouble Scizor (Ex.: Zapdos) and can tank at least one special move aimed at the mantis.
The core has some problems with MegaMence (which is why I added Unaware Clefable, although it's still 2HKOed by Return X_X) but who doesn't have problems with that
Hmm. Well, the point of Weavile was to check Mega-Mence. What about Zapdos instead of Rotom-W (Never liked the washing machine hype... despite how solid he is.). Zapdos could handle Talonflame, and I believe there's a set that even counters Mega-Mence.
However, the SR weakness can be pretty frustrating sometimes. So I'm thinking Weavile/Bisharp, Gallade, and Zapdos. Then maybe CB Scizor. I used CB Scizor a long time ago, glad to see he's making a return in this meta.
However, the SR weakness can be pretty frustrating sometimes. So I'm thinking Weavile/Bisharp, Gallade, and Zapdos. Then maybe CB Scizor. I used CB Scizor a long time ago, glad to see he's making a return in this meta.
i love weavile. if anyone knows how to effectively build with weavile, it's me. that being said, bisharp is a better partner for gallade. gallade really wants fairies gone, which sharp handles much better, and bisharp/gallade have better defensive synergy, which many people don't think of when building around offensive mons but is actually very important. rotom-w is also better for the core as zapdos can't hard counter talonflame, but zapdos is cool so if you go with burd i'd suggest pairing it up with defensive landt
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Gallade and Bisharp have that same awesome theme of going well together. I'm trying to build a team around the theme. If Aegislash wasn't banned, he'd fit in well with the sword/shield/knight theme. A washing machine is such a lame excuse for a pokemon, haha. I think I'll look into Lando-T or some other SR setters who can counter Talonflame and fit with the Gallade/Bisharp core.
Any advice? I'm pretty picky when it comes to team construction and I try to balance style with substance. Usually netting a rating around the 1700's as a result. But I'm fine with that. Who are some of the cooler Talonflame counters you guys can come up with?
Any advice? I'm pretty picky when it comes to team construction and I try to balance style with substance. Usually netting a rating around the 1700's as a result. But I'm fine with that. Who are some of the cooler Talonflame counters you guys can come up with?
Im quite fond of rhyperior, since he also laughs at the face of non hpump salamence. He could be your tower if you are foing a chess based theme as well. Just be careful of not making him a momentum killer.
Jellicent could work well as a decent check to talonflame and bisharp and gallade help to cover 3 of weaknesses and jellicent covers two of bisahrps weaknesses. Plus with bisharp and jellicent combined you now have an easier way of keeping hazards on the field from defog and rapid spin, which will be helpful for gallade to sweep easier. Plus jellicent is royalty.. so it even matches the theme!
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Hmm. They're both kind of "fat" though, haha. I will consider them since they fit the theme pretty well. I appreciate the advice!
Altough jellycent cant switch into CB Brave birds nor risk the bird to use SD on a predicted switch, and uturn is a thing with magnezone and gothithele everywhere...But ye it suits the theme to a T.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 172+ Def Jellicent: 231-273 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Not exactly what I'd call a 'counter' myself. And then what else does Jellicent really achieve and contribute to the team that Rotom-W can't do better?
It can spin block, taunt, has reliable recovery, and better HP. Plus rotom-w doesn't get scald and jellicent can just keep using recover while talonflame dwinddles itself down with the recoil from brave bird. We already stated that Rotom-w was a counter we were just trying to find other counters. Aside from their typings and ability to burn the two are very different.
Hmm. I really like the idea of Rhyperior if I can make him viable in OU. He counters Talonflame and can be a somewhat reliable SR setter. I'm actually going for an Arcana theme, so he can be XVI - The Tower.
Well as posted above its saving grace lies in taunt/spinblock and recover. Since both pokemon have wow the only benefit jelly gets over rotomW is the extra PP if we talk about scald. He really needs to invest a lot into defence to survive the brave birds reliably and is prone to get tbolted to death given some teams overpreparation for MBro, something rotom W can actually get away with.
Rhyperior is perfectly viable, and actually good. jellicent is ass and in no ways counters talonflame. assault vest raikou is a good option to consider pairing with gallade + bisharp if rotom isn't your thing
Rhyperior is already viable. It's one of the best ways to deal with Birdspam, is one of the few counters to Zard X, and deals with Mega Mence.
Assualt vest Raikou can fit in this core very well and helps to counter talonflame as. If your are using Raikous then it is best to find a flying type or levitater to help migitate that ground type weakness. Gengar comes to mind for it's ability to synergize well with the team. It is immune to fighting and ground for bisharp, ground for Raikou, and fairy for gallade while bisharp covers it's ghost, dark and psychic type weaknesses. Plus you now have a spinblocker and defiant user meaning you know have a much easier time of keeping hazards on the field so in that fifth slot we should get a hazard setter. Also Rosen Jellicent is not ass but it doesn't counter talonflame so I was wrong there.
Thanks so much. I appreciate all of your help. My team is coming together quite nicely. I like using more underrated pokemon if you have any suggestions. But Raikou and Rhyperior are great pokemon for the team. I might consider another ghost besides Gengar if any of the others are viable. I wonder how Froslass would perform in this meta.
froslass is great with bisharp, nice spikes lead and anti-lead w/taunt and destiny bond. although that'd only be ideal on an extremely ho-oriented team, as froslass exists solely to get up her own hazards, prevent opposing hazards from getting up, and die (and hopefully take down something in the process). if you want teambuilding help/ideas, feel free to shoot me a pm, but let's try not to veer too far off topic when possible
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