It's an Empoleon with levitate.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Garchomp, the most broken pokemon in OU.
- Thread starter xcfrisco
- Start date
- Status
Then we should ban Tyranitar as well. Choice Band sets are countered only by Hippowdon (bulky fighting-types are 2HKO'd most of the time by Earthquake), and let's Specs Ice Beam it.
We also ought to ban Tangrowth, because when you think about it, that thing packs a lot of power and has a ton of crippling support options.
We also ought to ban Tangrowth, because when you think about it, that thing packs a lot of power and has a ton of crippling support options.
I don't think Garchomp is no better then the other OUs. Garchomp is terrifying. One wrong move and it will sweep.
Did you know Pachirisu can survive a Garchomp Outrage? Same with Onix. Seriously that surprised me...
I've been trying to convince myself that Garchomp is OU, but I'm running out of ideas. I will make a comedy note, though, that the last time I faced a Garchomp, he switched in on my Spiritomb. (I think I was Pursuiting a lead Azelf.) With Pain Split and Sucker Punch, Spiritomb came out on top. @_@
Or Flash Fire Skarmory
@Blissey ODonnell
Also a 252/252 Poliwrath and Hitmontop are not 2hkoed by a CBtar Earthquake.
My point is, this theoretical pokemon wouldn't necessarily be uber.
READ THE FIRST POST.
I address why Tyranitar shouldn't be Uber. Any counter-arguments? I'm not gonna bother responding about Tangrowth, don't be so short-sighted.
BASE STAT TOTAL: 600
HP: 145
Attack: 145
Defense: 145
SpAtk: 10
SpDef: 145
Speed: 10
Its ability is Intimidate, and it learns Avalanche and Ice Shard at level 5.
How about now? :P
Ok, I don't really care what happends to garchomp. I don't use it, so it would make my life easier to have in gone. But really its not a problem for me if it stays.
So I ask you all...
Of all the times Garchomp has beaten you, why?
Was it through sand veil luck? If so 8 times out of 10 you would have won anyay, so just accept it as bad luck. Unless it was brightpowder. Then your opponent is a complete dick.
Was it because of a mistake or bad prediction? If so, your fault.
Were your Garchomp "counters" dead or weakened to a point where they can't do their job? If so your opponent did his job by damaging you so Garchomp actually could sweep.
If Garchomp actually killed a poke, did you have something to revenge kill it? Starmie / Scarf Glaceon or Abomasnow does this very well. Take advantage of it being stuck in Outrage. If it has Dragon Claw Chomp can't hit nearly as hard.
If Sand Veil made you lose, who started the sand? Was it your Tyranitar or his Hippowdon?
Could that same Garchomp have beaten all 6 of your pokes on its own? If no then you either got screwed by horrible luck, or lost the wrong pokes. If yes then...
Eh, i'm tired...
So I ask you all...
Of all the times Garchomp has beaten you, why?
Was it through sand veil luck? If so 8 times out of 10 you would have won anyay, so just accept it as bad luck. Unless it was brightpowder. Then your opponent is a complete dick.
Was it because of a mistake or bad prediction? If so, your fault.
Were your Garchomp "counters" dead or weakened to a point where they can't do their job? If so your opponent did his job by damaging you so Garchomp actually could sweep.
If Garchomp actually killed a poke, did you have something to revenge kill it? Starmie / Scarf Glaceon or Abomasnow does this very well. Take advantage of it being stuck in Outrage. If it has Dragon Claw Chomp can't hit nearly as hard.
If Sand Veil made you lose, who started the sand? Was it your Tyranitar or his Hippowdon?
Could that same Garchomp have beaten all 6 of your pokes on its own? If no then you either got screwed by horrible luck, or lost the wrong pokes. If yes then...
Eh, i'm tired...
Uhhh, yeah. Too bad Tyranitar has weaknesses to Fighting (4x) Water, Grass, Steel, and Ground.
Lets see; he can't take a hit from Meteor Mash, Gyro Ball, Earthquake, Grass Knot, Surf, and any fighting move.
Hitmontop and Lucario can switch in almost all the time. Lucario can switch into it's STABs with impunity and deal 80% with Vacuum Wave on DDtar, or OHKO with Aura Sphere. Hitmontop can intimdate it, and Triple Kick BOAH or Mach Punch DDtar.
Tangrowth gets the whooping put on t by Fire Blast, which is one of the most common moves nowadays. Ice Beam, Bug Buzz and Air Slash don't do it any favors.
Now that I think about it, the reason Tangrowth isn't so good is BECAUSE OF GARCHOMP. Garchomp users pack Fire Blast so they can kill Skarm and Zong and Tangrowth, defenders from Garchomp slap ice moves on everything. I mean come on, you know something is overcentralizing when every pokemon has HP Ice on it. I know Ice has good coverage, but it's because of rampant dragon use that we spam it so much. Garchomp has screwed up the metagame so much, it would be a lot easier if it wasn't here.
@ Blue Harvest: I haven't had too many problems with Garchomp on my team, even though I lack a defensive Steel type. Basically, I have to switch into a swords dancer with a full health Porygon2 or Celebi to counter it, or I send in Lucario after Outrage killed something. I also keep Toxic Spikes up as much as possible. it's sad, but that's what I gotta do. I don't know what else I can do except breed up a Mamoswine or something :( Garchomp has made the game so lame. The only recent battles I have enjoyed was a "BL" fight with Chawla, where it was essentially OU without the top 20 pokes, and other fights where the opponent doesn't have Garchomp. It's not a fun pokemon IMO. If it was slower, I could beat it, but the high defense, speed and attack are ridiculous!
IT'S TOUGHER THAN SWAMPERT
FASTER THAN SALAMENCE
HAS AS MUCH ATTACK AS MAMOSWINE
HAS A FREE DOUBLE TEAM
BEATS CHUCK NORRIS ONE ON ONE
(no it's not a bird, or a plane or superman -_- )
Ittttttttttttttttttttttttttttt'sssssssssssssssss Garchump
Garchomp is not tougher then Swampert! I mean statistically with base stats yes, but the EVs are what give Swampert the edge. Not to mention Swampert doesn't have half of all pokemon waiting with a 4x effective Ice Beam. That Ice Beam isn't entirely for Garchomp. Its also for Salamence, Dragonite, Gliscor and... umm... Ice is an awesome attacking type anyway...
@ merubin
Garchomp has no real "counters". They're more like buffers to weaken it or set up a revenge kill. Very few pokes can come in on Chomp and walk away without predicting a Swords Dance. Basically what I said is, does the mere sight of Garchomp mean you lose? No it doesn't. It bleeds like everything else. Well... not really "bleeds".
Also you didn't answer my questions. If you do lose to Garchomp, why?
You'd think with ALL the Garchomp users out there some would defend him... I don't even like Garchomp...
@ merubin
Garchomp has no real "counters". They're more like buffers to weaken it or set up a revenge kill. Very few pokes can come in on Chomp and walk away without predicting a Swords Dance. Basically what I said is, does the mere sight of Garchomp mean you lose? No it doesn't. It bleeds like everything else. Well... not really "bleeds".
Also you didn't answer my questions. If you do lose to Garchomp, why?
You'd think with ALL the Garchomp users out there some would defend him... I don't even like Garchomp...
I should also add on Garchomp has higher defenses overall than Mewtwo, less weaknesses than Mewtwo and actually hits just as hard on the physical side as Mewtwo would on special side if not slightly harder.
But Mewtwo has Recover, incredible speed, rediculous Special Attack, a great movepool, and no 4x weaknesses.
Ok, Garchomp has no counters. My point is it isn't unbeatable. A lot of things have no counters. What counters specs Lucario? Spiritomb is close, but Dark Pulse will hit hard.
Ok, tell me what can safely switch in on this...
Porygon Z @ Life Orb
Timid
252 SA / 252 Speed
Hyper Beam
Nasty Plot
Shadow Ball
Ice Beam
Hyper Beam does 140.34% - 164.99% to a 0/0 Garchomp without a Nasty Plot. Without perfect prediction, nothing in the game can counter this. You can revenge kill it, but you can do the same to Garchomp after Outrage. Yes, its true Garchomp is tougher, but Garchomp is also 4x weak to one of the most common attacks in the game.
As one of my above post asked, if you lost to Garchomp why? Sand Veil is really just luck. Stone Edge is just as bad, but its still in use.
EDIT: Wait! Fuck Garchomp! I don't use him, and it would make my life a whole lot easier with him gone.
Ban him if you will. No problems with me.
Yes speed should be taken into consideration but in all fairness 102 speed is already enough in standard, Mewtwo's 130 is pretty much overkill anyway.
It was more to demonstrate parallels in their usuage.
I don't understand... are you saying Tyranitar isn't weak to bug? Because it is.
read his original post then read mine. I was pointing out the fact that it was weak to bug.
I personnally never had a lot of trouble with Garchomp. When I lose to him, it's usually because of Sand Veil. That is annoying though. That did make it a lot of fun when my Gliscor beat a Garchomp one on one, because his Dragon Claw missed twice.
Like I said, I don't have too much trouble with him. My current team has ScarfHeatran, Gliscor and Registeel though and I'm kinda low on the ladder, so that might be the reason. I do think it is the single most threatening Pokémon in the OU metagame. It just has no equal. Something like NP Porygon-Z can hurt like hell too, but it has a lot of trouble switching in and is slower. Garchomp has good stats all around. Enough Defense to come in, enough Speed to hit first, enough Special Attack to use Fire Blast/Draco Meteor and his Attack, well, you know, ouch.
Does that mean is Uber? I honestly don't know. He is the only OU Pokémon I wouldn't mind becoming Uber, but that doesn't necessarily mean he should be moved up. If I had to make a choice I'd probably say OU even though the game might be more fun without him. I like UU for a reason.
Anyway, I guess this doesn't really add anything, but giving my opinion in a big discussion like this one makes me feel important :3. And I felt Blue Harvest needed a bit of support.
Like I said, I don't have too much trouble with him. My current team has ScarfHeatran, Gliscor and Registeel though and I'm kinda low on the ladder, so that might be the reason. I do think it is the single most threatening Pokémon in the OU metagame. It just has no equal. Something like NP Porygon-Z can hurt like hell too, but it has a lot of trouble switching in and is slower. Garchomp has good stats all around. Enough Defense to come in, enough Speed to hit first, enough Special Attack to use Fire Blast/Draco Meteor and his Attack, well, you know, ouch.
Does that mean is Uber? I honestly don't know. He is the only OU Pokémon I wouldn't mind becoming Uber, but that doesn't necessarily mean he should be moved up. If I had to make a choice I'd probably say OU even though the game might be more fun without him. I like UU for a reason.
Anyway, I guess this doesn't really add anything, but giving my opinion in a big discussion like this one makes me feel important :3. And I felt Blue Harvest needed a bit of support.
Wait, you can have too much speed? I disagree.
I am sorry for going off topic, but Mewtwo's 130 Base is not overkill. I mean, with Choice Scarf, look at what you can outspeed.
- Status