They said that they wouldn’t veto anyone, only accept submissions.
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Pet Mod [Gen 1] Burgundy Version - Slate 6: Back to Basics
- Thread starter Ema Skye
- Start date
Plucks
Distirch
Wormperor
Boulra
Boulra isn't actually immune to any form of paralysis and I don't know how nobody noticed
Either way I won't vote it
EDIT: I'm a fucktard and didn't remember Rest counted(???)
So since it does meet the criteria I will vote it
Distirch
Wormperor
Boulra
Boulra isn't actually immune to any form of paralysis and I don't know how nobody noticed
Either way I won't vote it
EDIT: I'm a fucktard and didn't remember Rest counted(???)
So since it does meet the criteria I will vote it
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We have a winner!
This should be a very interesting addition to the meta with its ability to address Reflect builds, yet held back by its low speed. However, we are going to take you up on your offer to flip Speed and Special because that's how council all read the stats anyways when we picked it (so it will have 55 Speed and 75 Special).
Tagging Yoshiblaze to add this new addition to the meta.
---
It appears a new Pokemon has been found in the Burgundy Island, an evolution of an old Pokemon! Perhaps other Pokemon will find new evolutionary relatives on the Island as research continues. Professor Mulberry is thrilled by this finding and quickly alerted the other professors of the discovery. Plucks' discovery has also been huge for the Island's tourism, as trainers are lining up en masse at Vermillion Harbor to sail to the island for a glimpse at this new Pokemon.
We are now going to take a playtesting break, with the very first tournament of the mod. There will be a prize for the winner, so I hope you'll sign up.
This should be a very interesting addition to the meta with its ability to address Reflect builds, yet held back by its low speed. However, we are going to take you up on your offer to flip Speed and Special because that's how council all read the stats anyways when we picked it (so it will have 55 Speed and 75 Special).
Tagging Yoshiblaze to add this new addition to the meta.
---
It appears a new Pokemon has been found in the Burgundy Island, an evolution of an old Pokemon! Perhaps other Pokemon will find new evolutionary relatives on the Island as research continues. Professor Mulberry is thrilled by this finding and quickly alerted the other professors of the discovery. Plucks' discovery has also been huge for the Island's tourism, as trainers are lining up en masse at Vermillion Harbor to sail to the island for a glimpse at this new Pokemon.
We are now going to take a playtesting break, with the very first tournament of the mod. There will be a prize for the winner, so I hope you'll sign up.
Not a post I was thinking of making, but this is the funniest shit ever so I'm going to.
We found a bug, we're already calling it a glitch, and because this is RBY and we have a weird affinity with glitches, we're going to decide what to do here.
The TLDR is that when using Substitute, it blocks select self-targetting status moves (such as Swords Dance as an example). All stat boosting moves trigger this glitch (such as Swords Dance), however status effects that set a volatile condition (ex. Conversion, Reflect, Focus Energy) still work.
The glitch makes it harder to stat boost with sub, as it does not afford Sub's protection to get the boosts. Given how powerful sub is, this could be an interesting nerf to the move. But it's also completely unintended.
We've decided to open it up to a community discussion on if we want to keep this mechanic intact or not. Feel free to throw your hat into the ring on what you think could be fun to do here.
We found a bug, we're already calling it a glitch, and because this is RBY and we have a weird affinity with glitches, we're going to decide what to do here.
The TLDR is that when using Substitute, it blocks select self-targetting status moves (such as Swords Dance as an example). All stat boosting moves trigger this glitch (such as Swords Dance), however status effects that set a volatile condition (ex. Conversion, Reflect, Focus Energy) still work.
The glitch makes it harder to stat boost with sub, as it does not afford Sub's protection to get the boosts. Given how powerful sub is, this could be an interesting nerf to the move. But it's also completely unintended.
We've decided to open it up to a community discussion on if we want to keep this mechanic intact or not. Feel free to throw your hat into the ring on what you think could be fun to do here.
I think, if this isn’t present in RBY already, then it should be fixed, I still think, despite being a pet mod, we should stay as close to cart as possible.
After more playtesting, we discovered an interaction between Draco Meteor and Substitute. If you use Draco Meteor and it hits a substitute, the user will not get a special drop. However, if the Draco Meteor user is behind a substitute and doesn't hit a substitute, the user will get a special drop. The council has decided to keep this mechanic in the mod, since substitute has become a really powerful move, and this is a creative way to punish substitute usage.
And we have another substitute interaction because this move has just the funkiest code in RBY.
As a reminder, partial trapping moves in Burgundy are fixed at 3 turns. Testing without Substitute confirms that these is working as intended, and so Substitute is the manipulating variable. When using a partial trapping move (Wrap, Bind, Fire Spin, Clamp) against a Substitute, there are a few interactions to be aware of:
These three changes are interesting as Substitute is a wildly controversial move in Stadium, where it gets the code from, due to a lack of counterplay. However, we have found three different situations today that nerf the move, further cementing Burgundy as a unique Gen 1-based metagame despite the material it draws from.
As a reminder, partial trapping moves in Burgundy are fixed at 3 turns. Testing without Substitute confirms that these is working as intended, and so Substitute is the manipulating variable. When using a partial trapping move (Wrap, Bind, Fire Spin, Clamp) against a Substitute, there are a few interactions to be aware of:
- If the partial trapping user is faster than the substitute user, the substitute user is immobile for a fourth turn, however the partial trapping move user can select a different attack on this additional turn.
- If the partial trapping user is slower than the opponent, the substitute user is only ever trapped for two turns instead of three.
- If the partial trapping move deals no damage to the target (Ghost type) while the target is behind a substitute, the target is only trapped for one turn instead of three. This occurs regardless of turn order.
These three changes are interesting as Substitute is a wildly controversial move in Stadium, where it gets the code from, due to a lack of counterplay. However, we have found three different situations today that nerf the move, further cementing Burgundy as a unique Gen 1-based metagame despite the material it draws from.
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Yay!!! Plux!
wrap it up guys, we gotta remove everything that has been added in this mod since its not stuff thats already in rby. twas a fun ride
shit then we might as well remove armaldo, medicham, sneasler, abomasnow, talonflame, and plucks, nerf those 6 mons we buffed, and re-add all the glitches we patched
I feel like it's different if its a new mechanic that wasn't intended to be added. It's a bug in the code that creates a glitch from how things were intended, and the move didn't work like this in RBY.
Feel free to discuss all three interactions btw. We want community involvement in deciding how to proceed.
Feel free to discuss all three interactions btw. We want community involvement in deciding how to proceed.
That’s not what I meant?
Note, “I said as close as possible, despite being a Pet Mod”, I understand that this IS a Pet Mod, but that’s not the point of my reasoning, we, as a community, are adding things to the base RBY game. The fact that there’s a glitch means it should be fixed since we have the power to do so. If Nintendo found out all the glitches in RBY in 1996, they would’ve done it REALLLLL quick. If there was a glitch in SV OU on PS! that impacted a defining element of the meta, they would fix it as soon as possible. Besides, a Pet Mod is a community effort, my opinion is that the council shouldn’t say “hehe let’s nerf substitute behind the scenes” (Ik they’re not but still). The community should vote, like any other Slate, SPECIFICALLY about potential substitute nerfs, whether existing, or creative glitch-like nerfs
I’m sorry for kinda turning the tides against the council, this was not my intention, I think they have done a great job, and this pet mod has been very fun. Thank you for bringing the glitches to our attention, so the community can discuss.
Ya the part about making it a vote rather than a council decision is fair, its a community mod and not a solomod for a reason, I totally support that. Just think the wording "we should stay as close to cart as possible" is a bit of a weird take considering this pet mod aims to do precisely the inverse; creating a rby experience free from the weird shackles of game boy, substitute's broken status being one of them. If you take rby-specific lenses, by borrowing from later gens this mod already as a hefty amount of custom mechanics. I don't really see why it becomes a problem specifically for this, especially if it allows new tools to thrive in the metagame in a way that's both fun and healthy.That’s not what I meant?
Note, “I said as close as possible, despite being a Pet Mod”, I understand that this IS a Pet Mod, but that’s not the point of my reasoning, we, as a community, are adding things to the base RBY game. The fact that there’s a glitch means it should be fixed since we have the power to do so. If Nintendo found out all the glitches in RBY in 1996, they would’ve done it REALLLLL quick. If there was a glitch in SV OU on PS! that impacted a defining element of the meta, they would fix it as soon as possible. Besides, a Pet Mod is a community effort, my opinion is that the council shouldn’t say “hehe let’s nerf substitute behind the scenes” (Ik they’re not but still). The community should vote, like any other Slate, SPECIFICALLY about potential substitute nerfs, whether existing, or creative glitch-like nerfs
I’m sorry for kinda turning the tides against the council, this was not my intention, I think they have done a great job, and this pet mod has been very fun. Thank you for bringing the glitches to our attention, so the community can discuss.
I think the self-targeting moves failing with Sub should be dropped
Everything else should be kept
Everything else should be kept
We're a few rounds into Burgillionaire so I thought I'd post a preliminary VR on my takes so far.
Top 3 are most influential mons in the meta. Tauros is still Tauros and still goes hard, but meta has caught up to it by exploiting its new favorite toy: Substitute. This means its coverage is no longer perfect if it runs Sub (Aero and Gar can wall it depending on if its EQ or Blizz). Mie and Aero have phenomenal matchups against nearly everything buffed or added to the tier, making them incredibly consistent options and they kind of act as gatekeepers to the meta.
Plucks/Lax are functionally the same mon. Plucks has a worse Aero MU but is much more offensive and removes Reflect Snorlax from the meta. Snorlax looking to compete should look towards Amne or boom to use its unique tools over Plucks.
So many physical mons make Chansey harder to justify, but its the best check to Mie while also gatekeeping the many new special boosters as well as Zam and Gar. Zam feels harder to justify over Mie but maybe as people explore its coverage more, it might find somewhere to land. Egg is a very consistent Aero counter.
Zap exploits reliance on Mie/Aero as defensive checks, though it needs both paralyzed to have consistent matchups here. Rhydon therefore covers Zapdos. Gar is a valuable defensive piece once Mie and Zam are gone. Cloy does Cloy things but Ice is much worse defensively here.
Jolt/Vap are both Growth boosters, though both are relatively easy to wall (Rhydon/Starmie). Talon also struggles vs Aero but is a strong, though inconsistent, revenge killer once Aero is removed. Buzz is baby Zapdos that can beat Rhydon and Chansey. Maldo can win with a free turn to SD but is slower than everything except Snorlax.
Medi is a Rock resist which is valuable without being weak to Psychic and it has recovery. Movepool is a bit limited but it's certainly worth exploring. Hypno does Amne stuff that can sometimes just win. Sneasler is hard to justify with both Mie and Aero being so good. Dnite cheese with Beam+Draco lets it go hard with paralysis support. Bro is bad hyp.
Top 3 are most influential mons in the meta. Tauros is still Tauros and still goes hard, but meta has caught up to it by exploiting its new favorite toy: Substitute. This means its coverage is no longer perfect if it runs Sub (Aero and Gar can wall it depending on if its EQ or Blizz). Mie and Aero have phenomenal matchups against nearly everything buffed or added to the tier, making them incredibly consistent options and they kind of act as gatekeepers to the meta.
Plucks/Lax are functionally the same mon. Plucks has a worse Aero MU but is much more offensive and removes Reflect Snorlax from the meta. Snorlax looking to compete should look towards Amne or boom to use its unique tools over Plucks.
So many physical mons make Chansey harder to justify, but its the best check to Mie while also gatekeeping the many new special boosters as well as Zam and Gar. Zam feels harder to justify over Mie but maybe as people explore its coverage more, it might find somewhere to land. Egg is a very consistent Aero counter.
Zap exploits reliance on Mie/Aero as defensive checks, though it needs both paralyzed to have consistent matchups here. Rhydon therefore covers Zapdos. Gar is a valuable defensive piece once Mie and Zam are gone. Cloy does Cloy things but Ice is much worse defensively here.
Jolt/Vap are both Growth boosters, though both are relatively easy to wall (Rhydon/Starmie). Talon also struggles vs Aero but is a strong, though inconsistent, revenge killer once Aero is removed. Buzz is baby Zapdos that can beat Rhydon and Chansey. Maldo can win with a free turn to SD but is slower than everything except Snorlax.
Medi is a Rock resist which is valuable without being weak to Psychic and it has recovery. Movepool is a bit limited but it's certainly worth exploring. Hypno does Amne stuff that can sometimes just win. Sneasler is hard to justify with both Mie and Aero being so good. Dnite cheese with Beam+Draco lets it go hard with paralysis support. Bro is bad hyp.
Anyway, after being beaten by Ema in the tournament I wanted to give my insight on the meta rn.
S rank: meta-defining.
Tauros is not as fast as many other mons, but it is the most effective revenge killer, it has access to perfect coverage with slam, eq and blizz. It can hypothetically drop blizz for surf to be more consistent v aero and also hit armaldo, which it can't easily ko otherwise.
Starmie gets nothing new, but it's still as effective as always. Since more non-psychics were introduce it usually runs a stab move now, usually surf alongside thunderbolt in order to win the mirror, t wave and recover are still mandatory and the fact it outspeeds tauros is even more important now since it can t wave a tauros without fear of tauros blocking it with sub.
A rank: consistent mons you need reasons not to run.
Snorlax: The best answer for lax is your own lax, it doesn't use lovely kiss since sleep was nerfed and it usually tends to boom into the enemy lax, otherwise it KOs at least one mon on the enemy team.
Plucks: Stab slash allows it to give up hbeam more often than not, sub is common as it will be a trend on damage dealers and fast mons, edgequake coverage is great and focus punch has great synergy alongside sub.
Aerodactyl: it the most effective physical wall thanks to its unique normal resist and eq immunity while still dealing a lot of damage in return edgequake hits everything for at least neutral damage, while sub allows it to get free tempo on physical mons that don't run coverage for it, its last move is usually hbeam, but I myself are a rest enjoyer.
Alakazam: In a way zam is to Starmie what Persian is to Tauros in rby ou, it is a second paralysing and healing psychic that hits hard, it can deal with the means Starmie would want to deal while keeping your own mie healthy.
Hypno: A sidegrade to zam that imo ends up being worse, it trades recover for amnesia and is forced to run rest in order to heal up.
B: good mons with a clear flaw.
Dragonite: draco meteor does much more for this mon that you would imagine, a special hbeam with perfect neutral coverage that still allows you to wrap or beam next turn is amazing, the trapping nerf doesn't affect it as much and actually functions as a mixed attacker.
Rhydon: Aero's existance hurst this guy, but it' still the best ground type, so free switches into t waves can be greaat, specially if the oposing mon is a paralysed psychic.
Chansey: The worse of the old big 3, it absolutely hates all the new mons and the ocasional subpunch, while it usually was able to deal with a single psychic it can't really deal with a psychic plus the following physical revenge killer
Zapdos: Aero outspeeds Zapdos, it still can't touch the rock/ground mons, but they are much rarer now, so in a sense zapdos was buffed, on the other hand it has new competition in the form of nite and Talonflame.
Talonflame: The best focus energy setup mon right now, its drill peck can do a lot of damage to special walls while not even the rocks like taking a fire blast in case it burns, on the other hand it can't deal with mie or take a rock move.
Exegguttor: Sleep nerf hurt this guy, but the new recoil mechanics make its double-edge stadium set pretty decent, it still spreads paralysis and can ocasionally boom.
C rank: flawed mons that require team support
Golem: The faster paced meta and the lower usage of reflect chansey alongside lax usually booming in the mirror makes golem much better than it is in vanilla OU, its boom is much more effective.
Cloyster: This mon appreciates para being more spammable, it effectively does the same thing as in vanilla ou.
Armaldo: The best swords dancer in the tier, its slow speed and reliance on team support alonside getting a free turn make it really hard to use
Medicham: A psychic that can deal with normal types is always great, psychic + fighting is only resisted by psychic, which also means it can't really deal v enemy psychics, its access to recover and substitute can make it a durable mon, but its low speed and lack of hbeam in that set makes it less of a wallbreaker.
Beedrill: Armaldo but fast with stab eq instead of stab rock slide while having bug stab, its ground type gives it an easy entry on electrics, but it can't touch aero.
D tier: most inconsistent mons that will win games
Gengar: Worse sleep but more coverage while still being able to run confuse ray.
Slowbro: tbh, worse hypno, but it has unresisted stab vs psychics other than mie and eggy.
Machamp: glare subpunch + eq for gar or slam for neutral coverage is the way to go on this mon, it can try to setup on lax.
Everything else is barely usable or extremely niche imo
What's gonna happen to Gengar and Slowbro? Are they gonna drop to UU and fuck everything up, or they gonna become BL Knights?
slowbro probably will, gengar will remain ou most likely, it is a great defensive mon with ample coverage, it is just underated, people wanna play with newer toys
Okay, and we're back! And it's not an April Fools Joke!
The tournament is in the process of wrapping up (5 games left after the current round) and so we thought it makes sense to start the subbing process soon. Given the prize for winning the tournament (one non-vetoed sub is automatically included), this slate could also provide some options given how the meta has progressed.
Before that though, we do have one balance adjustment to do.
but bigger
- Earthquake, - Rock Slide, -Ice Punch
Plucks is insanely good right now, in part because it acts as a stronger Snorlax and it has forced Snorlax out of the meta a lot. To make things more closer to RBY, we've taken a different approach for Plucks. By reducing its coverage, it now acts like a Snorlax alternative with a higher risk/reward ratio. These changes limit its ability to threaten Gengar and Aerodactyl, the strongest defensive pieces in the meta right now, and remove its ability to freeze fish when those switch in. This should provide defensive play against it while still playing to its strength as a reflect buster.
Slate I Forgot the Number - Suddenly Signature Move
The long awaited return to Burgundy Island is in full force. Your research team continues to study the ecosystems of the island, noticing both Pokemon from mainland Kanto and Pokemon from other regions coexisting in harmony together. It appears the island's environment has required many Pokemon to learn new techniques to thrive. These moves have not been seen on mainland Kanto, and research from other regions suggests they are similar to moves that are used by Pokemon there.
This slate has two parts:
1. Pick a Pokemon (from RBY or otherwise). You can make adjustments to them (like the first two slates)
2. Give that Pokemon a move from new gens. Like the move slate, the move can be adapted to fit the mechanics but cannot be overhauled.
The Pokemon should make good use of the move, because it will be the only user of the move unless it is further distributed in later slates. It does not have to be a native user of the move in canon. We will be voting on these as pairs. You can sub 4 mon+move combinations. As with the fakemon slate, council will be curating the list of subs that will be on the voting ballot.
Template:
The tournament is in the process of wrapping up (5 games left after the current round) and so we thought it makes sense to start the subbing process soon. Given the prize for winning the tournament (one non-vetoed sub is automatically included), this slate could also provide some options given how the meta has progressed.
Before that though, we do have one balance adjustment to do.
but bigger- Earthquake, - Rock Slide, -Ice Punch
Plucks is insanely good right now, in part because it acts as a stronger Snorlax and it has forced Snorlax out of the meta a lot. To make things more closer to RBY, we've taken a different approach for Plucks. By reducing its coverage, it now acts like a Snorlax alternative with a higher risk/reward ratio. These changes limit its ability to threaten Gengar and Aerodactyl, the strongest defensive pieces in the meta right now, and remove its ability to freeze fish when those switch in. This should provide defensive play against it while still playing to its strength as a reflect buster.
Slate I Forgot the Number - Suddenly Signature Move
The long awaited return to Burgundy Island is in full force. Your research team continues to study the ecosystems of the island, noticing both Pokemon from mainland Kanto and Pokemon from other regions coexisting in harmony together. It appears the island's environment has required many Pokemon to learn new techniques to thrive. These moves have not been seen on mainland Kanto, and research from other regions suggests they are similar to moves that are used by Pokemon there.
This slate has two parts:
1. Pick a Pokemon (from RBY or otherwise). You can make adjustments to them (like the first two slates)
2. Give that Pokemon a move from new gens. Like the move slate, the move can be adapted to fit the mechanics but cannot be overhauled.
The Pokemon should make good use of the move, because it will be the only user of the move unless it is further distributed in later slates. It does not have to be a native user of the move in canon. We will be voting on these as pairs. You can sub 4 mon+move combinations. As with the fakemon slate, council will be curating the list of subs that will be on the voting ballot.
Template:
Code:
:pokemonname:
Name:
Stats:
Typing:
New Moves:
Removed Moves:
Signature Move Name:
Type:
BP:
Acc:
PP:
Effect:
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All of this except for kabutops are meant to be a nerf to all of the physical mons that were added, kabutops just seemed cool.
Name: Nidoking
Stats: Unchanged
Typing: Ground/Dragon
New Moves: Breaking Swipe, Draco Meteor
Removed Moves: None
Signature Move Name: Breaking Swipe
Type: Dragon
BP: 75
Acc: 100%
PP: 12
Effect: 100% chance to lower the opponent's attack by 1 stage
Ice coverage is not as common as it used to be, in my experience in the tournament mons tend to run 2-3 damaging moves and many mons with ice moves don't tend to run them as much as in standard out. It's typing and signature move allow it to switch into electric types and slower mons.
Relevant calcs:
Alakazam Psychic vs. Nidoking: 145-171 (39.7 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Nidoking Earthquake vs. Alakazam: 161-190 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Nidoking Draco Meteor vs. Alakazam: 109-129 (34.8 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Starmie Surf vs. Nidoking: 122-144 (33.4 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Nidoking Earthquake vs. Starmie: 113-133 (34.9 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Nidoking Draco Meteor vs. Starmie: 136-160 (42.1 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Name: Kabutops
Stats: Unchanged
Typing: Bug/Water
New Moves: Infestation
Removed Moves: None
Signature Move Name: Infestation
Type: Bug
BP: 15
Acc: 85%
PP: 32
Effect: Partial trapping move
We didn't manage to pass a bug move, but adding something like x-scissor on a sd user probably would warp the tier around it, in general, I believe just adding high bp spammable bug moves would, so I believe this is a midground, it allows Kabutops to play a bit like Pinsir in OU, its defensive typing is also unique and not half bad, being able to switch into earthquakes.
Relevant calcs:
Kabutops Infestation vs. Starmie: 42-50 (13 - 15.4%) -- possible 5HKO after trapping damage
Starmie Psychic vs. Kabutops: 122-144 (37.7 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Starmie Thunderbolt vs. Kabutops: 173-204 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Alakazam Psychic vs. Kabutops: 151-178 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 69.6% chance to 2HKO
Alakazam Thunder Punch vs. Kabutops: 170-200 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Kabutops Infestation vs. Alakazam: 57-68 (18.2 - 21.7%) -- 18.2% chance to 4HKO after trapping damage
Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. Kabutops: 165-194 (51 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Kabutops Surf vs. Aerodactyl: 205-242 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Name: Ninetales
Stats: Unchanged
Typing: Fire/Ghost
New Moves: Will-O-Wisp, Nightshade
Removed Moves: None
Signature Move Name: Will-O-Wisp
Type: Fire
BP: -
Acc: 85%
PP: 32
Effect: Burns the target
Will-o + fire spin allows it to chip its enemies while they receive burn damage, it's not faster than tauros, so it can't switch into a slam or hbeam and burn it, since it could tank an eq or be substitute fodder, but it manages to deal with things like plucks (which I just realised can't really touch this anymore)
Name: Runerigus
Stats: 58/98/145/50/30
Typing: Ghost/Ground
New Moves: Scorching Sands
Removed Moves: None
Signature Move Name: Scorching Sands
Type: Ground
BP: 80
Acc: 100%
PP: 32
Effect: 30% chance to burn the target
Ninetales but it can face off v Aero.
Name: Nidoking
Stats: Unchanged
Typing: Ground/Dragon
New Moves: Breaking Swipe, Draco Meteor
Removed Moves: None
Signature Move Name: Breaking Swipe
Type: Dragon
BP: 75
Acc: 100%
PP: 12
Effect: 100% chance to lower the opponent's attack by 1 stage
Ice coverage is not as common as it used to be, in my experience in the tournament mons tend to run 2-3 damaging moves and many mons with ice moves don't tend to run them as much as in standard out. It's typing and signature move allow it to switch into electric types and slower mons.
Relevant calcs:
Alakazam Psychic vs. Nidoking: 145-171 (39.7 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Nidoking Earthquake vs. Alakazam: 161-190 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Nidoking Draco Meteor vs. Alakazam: 109-129 (34.8 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Starmie Surf vs. Nidoking: 122-144 (33.4 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Nidoking Earthquake vs. Starmie: 113-133 (34.9 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Nidoking Draco Meteor vs. Starmie: 136-160 (42.1 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Name: Kabutops
Stats: Unchanged
Typing: Bug/Water
New Moves: Infestation
Removed Moves: None
Signature Move Name: Infestation
Type: Bug
BP: 15
Acc: 85%
PP: 32
Effect: Partial trapping move
We didn't manage to pass a bug move, but adding something like x-scissor on a sd user probably would warp the tier around it, in general, I believe just adding high bp spammable bug moves would, so I believe this is a midground, it allows Kabutops to play a bit like Pinsir in OU, its defensive typing is also unique and not half bad, being able to switch into earthquakes.
Relevant calcs:
Kabutops Infestation vs. Starmie: 42-50 (13 - 15.4%) -- possible 5HKO after trapping damage
Starmie Psychic vs. Kabutops: 122-144 (37.7 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Starmie Thunderbolt vs. Kabutops: 173-204 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Alakazam Psychic vs. Kabutops: 151-178 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 69.6% chance to 2HKO
Alakazam Thunder Punch vs. Kabutops: 170-200 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Kabutops Infestation vs. Alakazam: 57-68 (18.2 - 21.7%) -- 18.2% chance to 4HKO after trapping damage
Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. Kabutops: 165-194 (51 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Kabutops Surf vs. Aerodactyl: 205-242 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Name: Ninetales
Stats: Unchanged
Typing: Fire/Ghost
New Moves: Will-O-Wisp, Nightshade
Removed Moves: None
Signature Move Name: Will-O-Wisp
Type: Fire
BP: -
Acc: 85%
PP: 32
Effect: Burns the target
Will-o + fire spin allows it to chip its enemies while they receive burn damage, it's not faster than tauros, so it can't switch into a slam or hbeam and burn it, since it could tank an eq or be substitute fodder, but it manages to deal with things like plucks (which I just realised can't really touch this anymore)
Name: Runerigus
Stats: 58/98/145/50/30
Typing: Ghost/Ground
New Moves: Scorching Sands
Removed Moves: None
Signature Move Name: Scorching Sands
Type: Ground
BP: 80
Acc: 100%
PP: 32
Effect: 30% chance to burn the target
Ninetales but it can face off v Aero.
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Its Bugs time! Never have the time to play this Meta but always have it to introduce some chaotic submissions.
Name: Parasect
Stats: 74 HP (+14), 95 Attack, 87 Defense (+7), 84 Special (+4), 31 Speed (+1)
Typing: Bug/Grass
New Moves: Counter, Seed Bomb.
Removed Moves:
Signature Move Name: Seed Bomb
Type: Grass
BP: 100
Acc: 100
PP: 8
Effect: User faints. During damage calculation, the Special Stat of the opponent is halved.
Parasect still has the crappy Leech Life as the only Bug STAB. However, now it can explode with Seed Bomb. Seed Bomb OHKOs every Mon weak to Grass and damages Tauros really hard too. Its still a very humble Mon with bad Stats, but now it can sleep one Mon and eliminate or weaken another. Counter is another new Move to have an extra surprise KO for something like Snorlax (which Parasect now outspeeds by one point).
Name: Butterfree
Stats: HP 70 (+10), Attack 45, Defense 85 (+35), Special 90 (+10), Speed 80 (+10)
Typing: Bug/Psychic
New Moves: Silver Wind, Recover.
Removed Moves:
Signature Move Name:
Type: Silver Wind
BP: 60
Acc: 85
PP: 16
Effect: Partial trapping move (like Fire Spin).
Butterfree now has the strongest partial trapping Move and strongest Bug move in general, capable of 2HKOing Exeggutor, Victreebel, Venusaur and Jynx. However, it still comes from the terrible 45 Attack, meaning that the rest of the meta will be taking the move very well. For example:
Butterfree Silver Wind vs. Aerodactyl: 25-30 (6.8 - 8.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Butterfree Silver Wind vs. Snorlax: 54-64 (10.3 - 12.2%) -- possible 9HKO
Butterfree Silver Wind vs. Chansey: 113-133 (16 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO
Butterfree Silver Wind vs. Cloyster: 28-33 (9.2 - 10.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Butterfree Silver Wind vs. Charizard: 12-15 (3.3 - 4.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Fortunately for our little Bug, thats not all, it now also gets the Psychic typing and like many Psychics, it learns Recover too. This makes Butterfree a good Psychic and Fighting check. Despite 65 BST increase, Butterfree still has pretty lackuster Stats, so like every Mon in this post, it has an important niche that comes with very important drawbacks. Bug Mons are designed for Bug Maniacs, not everyone will be capable of using them well, but those who do, will finish the Psychic reign.
Name: Venomoth
Stats: HP 70, Attack 88 (+23), Defense 84 (+24), Special 90, Speed 90
Typing: Bug/Poison
New Moves: Sludge, Quiver Dance, Recover
Removed Moves:
Signature Move Name: Quiver Dance.
Type: Bug
BP:
Acc:
PP: 32
Effect: Raises Special and Speed one stage.
Like Parasect, Venomoth still has a very bad typing, however the Stats and movepool improve a lot. Sludge allows Venomoth to 4HKO Chansey, with a chance of poisoning it too. Quiver Dance makes Venomoth a very unique sweeper, especially if its combined with Recover. A well played Venomoth with Quiver Dance, Sludge/Sleep Powder, Psychic and Recover can win vs the whole meta. Key word here is well played, cause the Stats and Psychic weakness balance this Mon:
Alakazam Psychic vs. +1 Venomoth: 173-204 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO < So, Alakazam paralyzes Venomoth and pretty much wins.
Snorlax Body Slam vs. Venomoth: 110-130 (32 - 37.9%) -- 95.6% chance to 3HKO < Better match-up, especially if Snorlax is asleep, but para still can ruin the moth.
+1 Venomoth Psychic vs. Aerodactyl: 114-135 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- 84.7% chance to 3HKO
Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. Venomoth: 190-224 (55.3 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO < Counter right here.
+6 Venomoth Psychic vs. Starmie: 108-128 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO < Another counter if it has TW + Psychic.
Dangerous as Venomoth is, it needs a lot of the meta to be removed, weakened or statused before attempting to sweep, since Poison typing hurts more than it helps, even with Sludge.
Name: Scyther
Stats: HP 70, Attack 110, Defense 80, Special 80 (+25), Speed 105
Typing: Bug/Flying
New Moves: Acrobatics, Counter
Removed Moves:
Signature Move Name: Acrobatics
Type: Flying
BP: 55
Acc: 100
PP: 24
Effect: Nearly always crits.
Instead of being a poor Mon walled by Gengar, Scyther is now an extremely dangerous breaker with a powerful Flying STAB. It also resists special hits better now.
List of common RBY Mons that are 2HKOd by Acrobatics: Gengar, Alakazam, Exeggutor, Chansey (88% roll), Victreebel (30% to OHKO), Venusaur, Beedrill ( 100% OHKO with the new Stats), Flareon, Machamp, Abomasnow, Medicham (2% to OHKO), Plucks, Sneasler (60% to OHKO), Persian, Jynx.
List of common RBY Mons that are not 2HKOd by Acrobatics and are NOT Flying resists: Tauros, Snorlax, Starmie (0,2 % to 2HKO, miserable), Slowbro, Cloyster (4HKO, so pretty much a counter), Dewgong, Armaldo, Talonflame.
Scyther counters: Every single Rock type except Armaldo stop it cold (Armaldo is 3HKOd, so still decent enough). Cloyster is also a full stop, and ice moves in general work well. Talonflame outspeeds Scyther, and Aerodactyl obviously is the best counter of them all. Electric types are good checks, but not full counters, since Slash and +2 Hyper Beam has a chance to KO Zapdos (due to the increased Special, Scyther now always lives a Tbolt from full). Jolteon does outspeed, but does not OHKO either and is OHKOd 71% of the time by +2 Hyper Beam.
Still, Scyther will be a hard to use Mon, but a dangerous threat when supported well enough. Like already said, common theme for all the Mons in this post.
Name: Parasect
Stats: 74 HP (+14), 95 Attack, 87 Defense (+7), 84 Special (+4), 31 Speed (+1)
Typing: Bug/Grass
New Moves: Counter, Seed Bomb.
Removed Moves:
Signature Move Name: Seed Bomb
Type: Grass
BP: 100
Acc: 100
PP: 8
Effect: User faints. During damage calculation, the Special Stat of the opponent is halved.
Parasect still has the crappy Leech Life as the only Bug STAB. However, now it can explode with Seed Bomb. Seed Bomb OHKOs every Mon weak to Grass and damages Tauros really hard too. Its still a very humble Mon with bad Stats, but now it can sleep one Mon and eliminate or weaken another. Counter is another new Move to have an extra surprise KO for something like Snorlax (which Parasect now outspeeds by one point).
Name: Butterfree
Stats: HP 70 (+10), Attack 45, Defense 85 (+35), Special 90 (+10), Speed 80 (+10)
Typing: Bug/Psychic
New Moves: Silver Wind, Recover.
Removed Moves:
Signature Move Name:
Type: Silver Wind
BP: 60
Acc: 85
PP: 16
Effect: Partial trapping move (like Fire Spin).
Butterfree now has the strongest partial trapping Move and strongest Bug move in general, capable of 2HKOing Exeggutor, Victreebel, Venusaur and Jynx. However, it still comes from the terrible 45 Attack, meaning that the rest of the meta will be taking the move very well. For example:
Butterfree Silver Wind vs. Aerodactyl: 25-30 (6.8 - 8.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Butterfree Silver Wind vs. Snorlax: 54-64 (10.3 - 12.2%) -- possible 9HKO
Butterfree Silver Wind vs. Chansey: 113-133 (16 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO
Butterfree Silver Wind vs. Cloyster: 28-33 (9.2 - 10.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Butterfree Silver Wind vs. Charizard: 12-15 (3.3 - 4.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Fortunately for our little Bug, thats not all, it now also gets the Psychic typing and like many Psychics, it learns Recover too. This makes Butterfree a good Psychic and Fighting check. Despite 65 BST increase, Butterfree still has pretty lackuster Stats, so like every Mon in this post, it has an important niche that comes with very important drawbacks. Bug Mons are designed for Bug Maniacs, not everyone will be capable of using them well, but those who do, will finish the Psychic reign.
Name: Venomoth
Stats: HP 70, Attack 88 (+23), Defense 84 (+24), Special 90, Speed 90
Typing: Bug/Poison
New Moves: Sludge, Quiver Dance, Recover
Removed Moves:
Signature Move Name: Quiver Dance.
Type: Bug
BP:
Acc:
PP: 32
Effect: Raises Special and Speed one stage.
Like Parasect, Venomoth still has a very bad typing, however the Stats and movepool improve a lot. Sludge allows Venomoth to 4HKO Chansey, with a chance of poisoning it too. Quiver Dance makes Venomoth a very unique sweeper, especially if its combined with Recover. A well played Venomoth with Quiver Dance, Sludge/Sleep Powder, Psychic and Recover can win vs the whole meta. Key word here is well played, cause the Stats and Psychic weakness balance this Mon:
Alakazam Psychic vs. +1 Venomoth: 173-204 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO < So, Alakazam paralyzes Venomoth and pretty much wins.
Snorlax Body Slam vs. Venomoth: 110-130 (32 - 37.9%) -- 95.6% chance to 3HKO < Better match-up, especially if Snorlax is asleep, but para still can ruin the moth.
+1 Venomoth Psychic vs. Aerodactyl: 114-135 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- 84.7% chance to 3HKO
Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. Venomoth: 190-224 (55.3 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO < Counter right here.
+6 Venomoth Psychic vs. Starmie: 108-128 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO < Another counter if it has TW + Psychic.
Dangerous as Venomoth is, it needs a lot of the meta to be removed, weakened or statused before attempting to sweep, since Poison typing hurts more than it helps, even with Sludge.
Name: Scyther
Stats: HP 70, Attack 110, Defense 80, Special 80 (+25), Speed 105
Typing: Bug/Flying
New Moves: Acrobatics, Counter
Removed Moves:
Signature Move Name: Acrobatics
Type: Flying
BP: 55
Acc: 100
PP: 24
Effect: Nearly always crits.
Instead of being a poor Mon walled by Gengar, Scyther is now an extremely dangerous breaker with a powerful Flying STAB. It also resists special hits better now.
List of common RBY Mons that are 2HKOd by Acrobatics: Gengar, Alakazam, Exeggutor, Chansey (88% roll), Victreebel (30% to OHKO), Venusaur, Beedrill ( 100% OHKO with the new Stats), Flareon, Machamp, Abomasnow, Medicham (2% to OHKO), Plucks, Sneasler (60% to OHKO), Persian, Jynx.
List of common RBY Mons that are not 2HKOd by Acrobatics and are NOT Flying resists: Tauros, Snorlax, Starmie (0,2 % to 2HKO, miserable), Slowbro, Cloyster (4HKO, so pretty much a counter), Dewgong, Armaldo, Talonflame.
Scyther counters: Every single Rock type except Armaldo stop it cold (Armaldo is 3HKOd, so still decent enough). Cloyster is also a full stop, and ice moves in general work well. Talonflame outspeeds Scyther, and Aerodactyl obviously is the best counter of them all. Electric types are good checks, but not full counters, since Slash and +2 Hyper Beam has a chance to KO Zapdos (due to the increased Special, Scyther now always lives a Tbolt from full). Jolteon does outspeed, but does not OHKO either and is OHKOd 71% of the time by +2 Hyper Beam.
Still, Scyther will be a hard to use Mon, but a dangerous threat when supported well enough. Like already said, common theme for all the Mons in this post.
Name: Primarina
Stats: 80 HP/74 Atk/74 Def/126 Spc/60 Spe
Typing: Water
New Moves: Sparkling Aria*
Removed Moves: Amnesia
Signature Move Name: Sparkling Aria
Type: Water
BP: 90
Acc: 100
PP: 16
Effect: Hits behind target's substitute, if any. [This adapts the sound move mechanic to RBY.]
Substitute has been a much maligned addition to the meta, with very minimal counterplay. Sparkling Aria exists as counterplay to Substitute users, being a decent option against the two biggest ones: Aerodactyl and Tauros. Primarina itself is a strong Water, with its Hydro Pump being the strongest special move in the game (beating Zapdos/Articuno's moves by 1 Spc).
Name: Gholdengo
Stats: 87 HP/133 Atk/95 Def/91 Spc/84 Spe
Typing: Ghost/Rock
New Moves: Rock Slide, Make It Rain*
Removed Moves: Recover, Confuse Ray, Low Kick
Signature Move Name: Make It Rain
Type: Rock
BP: 95
Acc: 100
PP: 8
Effect: Lowers user's Spc 1 stage (unless attacking a sub)
I feel like this contrasts well with Gengar as a ghost, with the difference in their attacking stats and speed giving reasons for either to be used. Gholdengo brings a Ghost with Twave to the meta, though unlike a lot of other Twavers, it is threatened by Grounds. Make It Rain also plays like our new favorite move: Draco Meteor. Unlike Draco, it isn't lowered in power each turn, though it still does jeopardize Ghold's special stat, which it uses to break the Grounds (likely with Psychic coverage).
Name: Cyclizar
Stats: 65 HP/95 Atk/65 Def/65 Spc/121 Spe
Typing: Normal/Dragon
New Moves: Rapid Spin*
Removed Moves:
Signature Move Name: Rapid Spin
Type: Normal
BP: 20
Acc: 100
PP: 64
Effect: Removes Leech Seed and ends partial trapping. If used during effects of trapping moves, Rapid Spin is used anyways.
So offensively this looks a lot like Tauros: 95/65/121 offenses vs 100/70/110. However, there are a few catches that prevent Cyclizar from outclassing Tauros. Firstly, L + Ratio + Blizzard weakness. Secondly is its lack of coverage. While Draco Meteor is technically perfect coverage, it isn't readily clickable for wallbreaking like Tauros' EQ or Blizzard is. Cylizar's only other form of coverage is Thunderbolt, which is helpful for Cloyster but you aren't staying in on it anyways. Rapid Spin isn't terribly useful for Cyclizar due to its speed, but could be an interesting move to add to the format to provide more counterplay to trapping moves.
Name: Mr. Mime
Stats: 60 (+15)/45/65/100/90
Typing: Psychic/Normal
New Moves: Snatch*
Removed Moves:
Signature Move Name: Snatch
Type: Normal
BP: -
Acc: -
PP: 16
Effect: +1 priority. If foe uses a beneficial status move, the user of this move uses that move instead and the foe's move fails.
So Mr. Mime is the worst fully evolved Psychic, but this gives it a very fun toy to play with. Snatch works with a few very relevant moves in Burg: Recover/Softboiled, Reflect, stat boosting moves and Substitute. Given the increased priority of the move, Mr. Mime can cause a lot of disruption vs Starmie, Alakazam and Aerodactyl, while also disrupting Snorlax and Chansey. Of course, this is still inconsistent given that the opponent decides the move you Snatch (which could suck if you Snatch Rest), but in a game where movesets are very predictable, this could be the one time this move could be useful.
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