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I like the idea of Infernal Parade clones for these, unique and pretty strong without being overbearing (though the already very good Zapdos being the easiest to get a boost on is pretty scary). I will say, though, that Shadow Chill would probably get vetoed, as even considering the miss chance, that's still a 1/4 chance to freeze something every turn, which is too much with how strong freeze is. I also don't love the protection bypassing effect (all my homies HATE urshifu) but it being weather-based makes it not too much of a concern
I like the concept of using effects from unviable Dark moves for these. Only reason concern is that Shadow Chill having an 18% chance to freeze is borderline vetoable, it's a good step down from the 24% of the other sub, but it is on much stronger move, I may recommend lowering it to 15% or so
Type: Shadow Effect: 100% chance to lower the foe's Speed by 1 stage. Priority: 0 Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Protect Potential Pokémon With This Move::zapdos:(:raikou::electabuzz:)
Type: Shadow Effect: Deals 1.5x damage to Water-types. Priority: 0 Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Protect Potential Pokémon With This Move::articuno:(:suicune::jynx:)
Name: Shadow Fire Power: 65 Accuracy: 100% PP: 5 Category:
Type: Shadow Effect: If this move is successful, the target's ally loses 1/8 of its maximum HP, rounded down. Priority: 0 Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Protect, Defrost Potential Pokémon With This Move::moltres:(:entei::magmar:)
Justification (All): These all take inspiration from different Electric, Ice, and Fire moves, being Electroweb (but single-target), Freeze-Dry, and Flame Burst (but buffed) respectively. Zapdos now gets an offensive Speed control option that bypasses Lum Berry (but not White Herb, which could see more use with this plus the many other stat-dropping Shadow moves), Articuno can now hit Water-types even harder (essentially getting STAB on its Shadow move when hitting them), and Moltres gets a pseudo-spread move that doesn't have to deal with spread move damage reduction. I have all 3 as signatures right now, though if these win I'll definitely consider giving them to the Legendary Beasts like other subs have, as they should be fine for all of them.
Voting Phase (1 Day)
After the submission phase is over, voting will begin. This mod will be using the same voting system as Megas Revisited, where you can vote for as many submissions as you want, with each submission getting a certain number of points based on how you ranked it. Slate 1 and all move slates will use the same system, as well as any other kind of slate we need to do if necessitated by what our Shadow mechanics end up being. An example can be seen below.
For a slate with Shadow Rush, Shadow Sky, and Shadow Wave, for example, a ballot would look like this: Shadow Rush: User 1, User 2, User 3 Shadow Sky: User 4, User 5, User 6 Shadow Wave: User 7, User 8, User 9
With this ballot, Submission 1 for Shadow Rush would get 3 points, Submission 2 would get 2, and Submission 3 would get 1. The same goes for Submissions 4, 5, and 6 in the Shadow Sky category and Submissions 7, 8, and 9 in the Shadow Wave category, with them getting 3, 2, and 1 point respectively.
You can add as many submissions are you'd like after your third vote, with each one getting 1 point. Shadow Rush: User 1, User 2, User 3 Shadow Sky: User 4, User 5, User 6 Shadow Wave: User 7, User 8, User 9, User 10, User 11
So, in this ballot, Submissions 10 and 11 would also get 1 point in the Shadow Wave category.
You can vote for your own submission, but it can't be in first place or your only vote in that category. Be sure to mark your self-vote by putting (SV) after it. Shadow Rush: User 12 (SV), User 2, User 3 Shadow Sky: User 4, User 5, User 6 Shadow Wave: User 7, User 8, User 9, User 10, User 11
This wouldn't be a legal ballot as the self-vote is in first place in the Shadow Rush category
Shadow Rush: User 12 (SV) Shadow Sky: User 4, User 5, User 6 Shadow Wave: User 7, User 8, User 9, User 10, User 11
This also wouldn't be a legal ballot as the self-vote is the only vote in the Shadow Rush category
Shadow Rush: User 2, User 12 (SV) Shadow Sky: User 4, User 12 (SV), User 6 Shadow Wave: User 7, User 8, User 12 (SV), User 10, User 11
This is a legal ballot because none of the self-votes are in first place or the only vote in a category.
If you vote for only 2 submissions in a category, the first place submission gets 2 points and the second place submission gets 1 point. If you vote for just one, then that submission gets 1 point. Beedrill: User 1 (1 point) Lopunny: User 4 (2 points), User 5 (1 point) Pidgeot: User 7 (3 points), User 8 (2 points), User 9 (1 point), User 10 (1 point), User 11 (1 point)
Move: User, User, User, etc. Move: User, User, User, etc. Move: User, User, User, etc.
The submission with the most points in a category will be added to the mod.
Type: Shadow Effect: 20% chance to paralyze. For 5 turns, the target's held item has no effect. An item's effect of causing forme changes is unaffected, but any other effects from such items are negated. If the target uses Baton Pass, the replacement will remain unable to use items. Priority: 0 Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Ignores a target's substitute Potential Pokémon With This Move: :Zapdos::Raikou::Jolteon: Supplemental Flavour: This move shocks targets down to the bone. Leaves them filled with static cling, making items stuck to their bodies.
Type: Shadow Effect: Deals 1.5x damage to Water-types. Priority: 0 Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Protect Potential Pokémon With This Move::articuno:(:suicune::jynx:)
Name: Shadow Fire Power: 60 Accuracy: 90% PP: 16 Category:
Type: Shadow Effect: 50% chance to burn the target. Its power is increased by 50% if the target is already burned. Has a 30% chance to bypass Protection moves when used during harsh sunlight. Priority: 0 Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Protect, Defrost. Potential Pokémon With This Move::moltres::Charmander::Cyndaquil:
Official Distribution time, and this one's a short one!
Shadow Bolt - :zapdos::raikou::elekid:
Shadow Chill - :articuno::suicune::smoochum:
Shadow Fire - :moltres::entei::magby:
The moves obviously went to the Kanto Birds, as they are their moves after all, and they each only went to 2 other lines to mostly keep its special nature. Everyone suggested that the Legendary Beasts get it and they do play a story role in Colosseum as well, so that made sense. For the other, I went with a wild card and went with the Elekid, Smoochum, and Magby lines, as a non-legendary trio of Electric, Ice, and Fire-types, which felt fitting enough. Electabuzz's Shadow moves are kinda stuffed right now though, but we'll have a chance to fix that in the future.
Now, I said that we were gonna start the second to last slate now, but I lied actually!
With Slate 7 done, we've now gone through all but 1 of the original Shadow moves from XD: Gale of Darkness, with the last two slates being one of solely custom moves and one covering a certain box art legendary. With us being so close to the end, now feels like a good time to make sure that, for the most part, every available Pokemon has exactly what Shadow moves we want them to have.
Thus, for this "slate", I am opening discussion on adding to and adjusting the Shadow movepools of every Pokemon, ensuring that they each have enough Shadow moves and that any Shadow moves we missed out on giving them have a chance to be given to them.
Using the template below, you can suggest Shadow movepool changes for as many Pokemon as you'd like. I've also included a list of Pokemon that have less than 2 Shadow moves, since they should be our top priority (aside from a couple exceptions), though remember that we still have next slate to fill any holes left after this one.
:pokemon: Pokemon: Original Shadow Movepool: New Shadow Movepool: Justification:
Example(and probably one of my subs) :elekid::electabuzz: Pokemon: Elekid line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rave, Shadow Sky, Shadow Bolt New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Sky, Shadow Bolt Justification: Removes Shadow Rave, since, while a great move for Electabuzz, is now redundant with its newly learned Shadow Bolt.
Note that each Pokemon can only have up to 4 Shadow moves, have the same Shadow moves as their whole evolution line, and that Shadow Pokemon must run all of their available Shadow moves at the same time.
See the spreadsheet here to find each Pokemon's Shadow movepool.
This slate is more a discussion, so it won't have a voting phase. Instead at the end, I will make any of the suggestions that I think work well official, and then we'll move to Slate 8.
I guess we have to address the elephant in the road with the moves from the first slate. Shadow Rush and Wave are kinda just worst versions of existing moves
:entei: Pokemon: Entei Original Shadow Movepool: Blitz/Break/Fire New Shadow Movepool: Blitz/Fire Justification: Entei is a fast mon and doesn't gain much by using a -6 prio move. It also is thematically fitting to give it Espeed/Sacred Fire clones
:bagon::shelgon::salamence: Pokemon: Bagon line Original Shadow Movepool: Rush/Shed New Shadow Movepool: Shed Justification: Shadow Shed would be a huge buff to Mence, however if it has to run Rush there'd be a major flaw
:omanyte::omastar: Pokemon: Omanyte line Original Shadow Movepool: Mist New Shadow Movepool: Storm Justification: Makes Omastar into a scarier Special Attacker; better option than Mist under Rain
:squirtle::wartortle::blastoise: Pokemon: Squirtle line Original Shadow Movepool: Storm/Shed New Shadow Movepool: Shed Justification: Would be a huge buff to Rain teams, which I think would be a welcome inclusion; allows Blastoise to slot in Ice Beam on a particularly nasty Rain set (could run Modest 244 Spe as well):
I guess we have to address the elephant in the road with the moves from the first slate. Shadow Rush and Wave are kinda just worst versions of existing moves
This is a valid concern, but I do want to note that the purpose of those moves (moreso Shadow Rush, Shadow Wave kinda ended up like this) was to be weaker so they could be given to stronger or already top tier mons without worry, since everything needs to have access to some Shadow moves. However, I would definitely understand swapping those moves out on some mons now that we have all almost all the moves (i.e. Metagross probably wouldn't be broken with Shadow Break) or buffing them slightly later.
:entei: Pokemon: Entei Original Shadow Movepool: Blitz/Break/Fire New Shadow Movepool: Blitz/Fire Justification: Entei is a fast mon and doesn't gain much by using a -6 prio move. It also is thematically fitting to give it Espeed/Sacred Fire clones
:bagon::shelgon::salamence: Pokemon: Bagon line Original Shadow Movepool: Rush/Shed New Shadow Movepool: Shed Justification: Shadow Shed would be a huge buff to Mence, however if it has to run Rush there'd be a major flaw
:omanyte::omastar: Pokemon: Omanyte line Original Shadow Movepool: Mist New Shadow Movepool: Storm Justification: Makes Omastar into a scarier Special Attacker; better option than Mist under Rain
:squirtle::wartortle::blastoise: Pokemon: Squirtle line Original Shadow Movepool: Storm/Shed New Shadow Movepool: Shed Justification: Would be a huge buff to Rain teams, which I think would be a welcome inclusion; allows Blastoise to slot in Ice Beam on a particularly nasty Rain set (could run Modest 244 Spe as well):
I probably should've made this clearer, but every Shadow Pokemon needs at least 2 Shadow moves (with the probably exceptions of Ditto, Smeargle, and Unown), so with only one slate left to give out Shadow moves, I don't think removing moves without adding a replacement is the best idea.
As for the subs specifically: :entei:Agree, it doesn't need both Shadow Break and Shadow Fire and Break is definitely the more droppable one :salamence:We talked a little about how Shadow Shed could make Mence broken, so I think keeping Shadow Rush on it as that major flaw would help a bit in potentially keeping it in check :omastar:I avoided giving Shadow Storm to Omastar as a Swift Swimmer with such a high SpA stat but it's probably not broken with it so I can't disagree too much with making the swap here :blastoise:Most of my opinion on this is just the Shadow mons needing 2 Shadow moves thing but I also feel like Shadow Storm is just a really good move for a Shadow Shed sweeper like Blastoise to have. It does have to drop 2 of Rain Dance, Ice Beam, and Protect but its teammates can cover for that fairly easily I think
:elekid::electabuzz: Pokemon: Elekid line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rave, Shadow Sky, Shadow Bolt New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Sky, Shadow Bolt Justification: Removes Shadow Rave, since, while a great move for Electabuzz, is now redundant with its newly learned Shadow Bolt.
:entei: Pokemon: Entei Original Shadow Movepool: Blitz/Break/Fire New Shadow Movepool: Blitz/Fire Justification: Entei is a fast mon and doesn't gain much by using a -6 prio move. It also is thematically fitting to give it Espeed/Sacred Fire clones
:omanyte::omastar: Pokemon: Omanyte line Original Shadow Movepool: Mist New Shadow Movepool: Storm Justification: Makes Omastar into a scarier Special Attacker; better option than Mist under Rain
But before we get to the next slate, I also have a bunch of my own redistribution suggestions that I want to share but didn't get a chance to earlier (was busy) and I don't want to put them all in without giving people a chance to look at them. Thus, the next slate will begin in another 24 hours, with you having the chance to discuss my redistribution suggestions or put in any last second suggestions, with the ones we like becoming official at the end of those 24 hours.
:spearow::fearow: Pokemon: Spearow line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow End New Shadow Movepool: Shadow End, Shadow Blitz Justification: Better priority move than Quick Attack for the CB sets this would probably run
:vulpix::ninetales: Pokemon: Vulpix line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Wave, Shadow Sky New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm, Shadow Sky Justification: i wanted decent fast mons for shadow wave users but ninetales doesn't deserve to be stuck with it fr
:zubat::golbat::crobat: Pokemon: Zubat line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Mist New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Mist, Shadow Hold Justification: Utility move for the fast Crobat
:oddish::gloom::vileplume::bellossom: Pokemon: Oddish line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm, Shadow Panic Justification: Both Vileplume and Bellossom would like the room for STAB + HP Fire
:paras::parasect: Pokemon: Paras line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Half New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Half, Shadow Blitz Justification: funny combo that nothing else has
:venonat::venomoth: Pokemon: Venonat line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm, Shadow Shed Justification: fake Quiver Dance
:mankey::primeape: Pokemon: Mankey line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Down New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Down, Shadow End Justification: I think I purposely avoided giving it Shadow End before but it's really the only good physical Shadow move for it, it's not weak enough to force Shadow Rush on it
:growlithe::arcanine: Pokemon: Growlithe line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Hold New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Hold, Shadow Sights Justification: funny to ESpeed, support aspect fits arcanine
:poliwag::poliwhirl::poliwrath::politoed: Pokemon: Poliwag line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Sky New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Sky, Shadow Mist Justification: Probably the best move for both of them to able to make use of, with its stat-clearing utility
:abra::kadabra::alakazam: Pokemon: Abra line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Wave New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Wave, Shadow Sights Justification: Adds another utility move to go with its high Speed
:bellsprout::weepinbell::victreebel: Pokemon: Bellsprout line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow End New Shadow Movepool: Shadow End, Shadow Down Justification: Adds to its physical Sun nuke capabilities
:geodude::graveler::golem: Pokemon: Geodude line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow End New Shadow Movepool: Shadow End, Shadow Half Justification: Means you have to lower your stats with Shadow End less
:farfetchd: Pokemon: Farfetch'd line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow End New Shadow Movepool: Shadow End, Shadow Panic Justification: You'll want to keep your frail and slow Farfetch'd safe if you can
:seel::dewgong: Pokemon: Seel line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Half New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Half, Shadow Rave Justification: yeah.
:onix::steelix: Pokemon: Onix line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Panic New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Panic, Shadow Break Justification: Makes the most sense at a physical move for it
:drowzee::hypno: Pokemon: Drowzee line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Panic New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Panic, Shadow Mist Justification: Simultaneously the best offensive and utility move for it
:exeggcute::exeggutor: Pokemon: Exeggcute line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rave, Shadow Storm New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm, Shadow Sights Justification: Rave and Storm are redundant, Sights helps against Dark-types or Ghost-types for when you want to Boom
:lickitung: Pokemon: Lickitung Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow End New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rush, Shadow Panic Justification: It kinda needs the room for SD + Normal STAB
:kangaskhan: Pokemon: Kangaskhan Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Blitz New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Blitz, Shadow Break Justification: Shadow End might be fine on this but Kang has the bulk and power and make this very usable for it
:goldeen::seaking: Pokemon: Goldeen line Original Shadow Movepool: None New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Hold, Shadow Down Justification: we really gave this no shadow moves huh
:mr. mime: Pokemon: Mr. Mime Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Hold New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Hold, Shadow Sights Justification: Something new for Mr. Mime to Baton Pass
:kabuto::kabutops: Pokemon: Kabuto line Original Shadow Movepool: None New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Blitz, Shadow Rush Justification: we really gave this no shadow moves huh
:snorlax: Pokemon: Snorlax Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rush New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rush, Shadow Sights Justification: Probably the most balanced move that Snorlax can make any use of
:dratini::dragonair::dragonite: Pokemon: Dratini line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Mist New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Mist, Shadow Break Justification: We are mixed attacking now
:mew: Pokemon: Mew Original Shadow Movepool: None New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Shed Justification: Isn't legal under like any ruleset, so let's let it have some fun
:chikorita::bayleef::meganium: Pokemon: Chikorita line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm, Shadow Panic Justification: Fitting with Meganium's best trait being its bulk
:totodile::croconaw::feraligatr: Pokemon: Totodile line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow End New Shadow Movepool: Shadow End, Shadow Blitz Justification: Essentially gives it Aqua Jet
:sentret::furret: Pokemon: Kabuto line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Down New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Down, Shadow Break Justification: Not having to fit a Normal move seems nice for this
:hoothoot::noctowl: Pokemon: Hoothoot line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm, Shadow Sights Justification: More for flavor than anything else, but it helps it as a Normal-type and it already has the best offensive option available
:sudowoodo: Pokemon: Sudowoodo Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Break New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Break, Shadow Half Justification: Don't know why but I feel like it just works
:aipom: Pokemon: Aipom Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Down New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Down, Shadow End Justification: I think I was holding out for something even better but I don't think it can get better than this
:sunkern::sunflora: Pokemon: Sunkern line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm, Shadow Half Justification: Explosion Shiftry is a better board wiper but Chlorophyll + Shadow Half sounds really funny
:wooper::quagsire: Pokemon: Wooper line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Sights New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Sights, Shadow Break Justification: I mistakenly gave Quagsire Shadow Sights twice
:misdreavus: Pokemon: Misdreavus Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm, Shadow Sky Justification: Can use its many immunities to set up Shadow Sky and buff its own Shadow Storm
:girafarig: Pokemon: Girafarig Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm, Shadow Half Justification: Legitimately very useful for it but this is mostly flavor
:dunsparce: Pokemon: Dunsparce Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Hold New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Hold, Shadow Break Justification: Similar reasoning as Furret, means that running a Normal move isn't as necessary
:shuckle: Pokemon: Shuckle Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Panic New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Panic, Shadow Hold Justification: Likely the best and most balanced utility move for it
:heracross: Pokemon: Heracross Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Half New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Half, Shadow Break Justification: Likely wouldn't be broken by having Shadow Break like Pinsir does
:swinub::piloswine: Pokemon: Swinub line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Break New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Break, Shadow Blitz Justification: Similar reasoning as Feraligatr, basically has Ice Shard now
:houndour::houndoom: Pokemon: Houndour line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rave New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rave, Shadow Panic Justification: Gives it room to run its dual STAB
:miltank: Pokemon: Miltank Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Hold New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Hold, Shadow Break Justification: Gives Miltank something to do with whatever it trapped
:celebi: Pokemon: Celebi Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rave New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rave, Shadow Shed Justification: Giving the mon that purifies Shadows a way to "purify" itself feels fitting
:zigzagoon::linoone: Pokemon: Zigzagoon line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Half New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Half, Shadow Rush Justification: Kinda wild but this is the best physical Shadow option for it right now
:surskit::masquerain: Pokemon: Surskit line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Storm, Shadow Shed Justification: Can now make appropriate use of its amazing movepool
:shroomish::breloom: Pokemon: Shroomish line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Blitz New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Blitz, Shadow Down Justification: Blitz + Down + Mach Punch as a wild triple priority combo
:spinda: Pokemon: Spinda Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow End New Shadow Movepool: Shadow End, Shadow Panic Justification: Mostly flavor but also similar reasoning to Farfetch'd
:barboach::whiscash: Pokemon: Barboach line Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Shed New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Shed, Shadow Mist Justification: Needs a good Shadow move to use next to Shadow Shed and going Special is probably actually the correct choice
:regirock: Pokemon: Regirock Original Shadow Movepool: None New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Break, Shadow Sky
:regice: Pokemon: Regice Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rave New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rave, Shadow Sky
:registeel: Pokemon: Regice Original Shadow Movepool: None New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Break, Shadow Rave Justification: Feels the most fitting for each of the Regis
:latias::latios: Pokemon: Latias & Latios Original Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rave New Shadow Movepool: Shadow Rave, Shadow Sights Justification: Seems like the most balanced second move for the Latis, since Dark-types aren't usually how you beat them anyway
With the redistribution we just did done and all but 1 cannon Shadow move in the meta already, we'll use this slate to make 3 more moves in order to fill any of the holes we left behind!
I've put some notes below to help you make submissions for Shadow moves:
- Remember that every Shadow Pokemon must run all of the Shadow moves they can learn and that every Pokemon will learn at least 2 Shadow moves. Thus, try to avoid making redundant Shadow moves, in case they are both given to the same mon, and think about whether it would be worth giving a Pokemon that already learns 2 Shadow moves an additional one.
- In Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness, all non-signature physical Shadow moves are single-target attacks and all non-signature special Shadow moves are spread moves. Keeping this distinction is not a requirement, but is something to consider.
- Shadow moves are super effective against all non-Shadow Pokemon, but don't give the user a STAB boost. Keep this in mind when deciding how strong they should be.
- The Shadow Pokemon mechanic will be a powerful offensive tool, so keep that in mind when giving moves you make strong to already good Pokemon.
- Click here to see Orre Colosseum's Viability Rankings to see what's already strong.
- If you need a reminder of Gen 3 or Orre Colosseum's mechanics, click here to go to this thread's OP.
- If you need a reminder of what the mechanics of Shadow Pokemon are, you can see them below or in the spreadsheet.
Going for something very out there but still faithful to the games (cause they're my favourite Pokemon games)
Shadow Pokemon Effects
Moves: All Shadow Pokemon learn at least TWO Shadow moves (and can learn a max of FOUR, all of which are default/Lv1 moves). All Shadow moves the Pokemon has available to it must be included in the moveset (so some mons have one legal moveset).
Type Chart: Attacking moves are always 2x super effective on non-Shadow Pokemon, and 0.5x effective on Shadow Pokemon, but Shadow is not a Pokemon's type and so there is never STAB. Moves can be physical or special, decided on a per-move basis.
Availability: Any mon that has a Shadow move in its moves is a Shadow Pokemon (keeping in mind how moves work). On its first switch in, there is a message identifying it as a Shadow Pokemon (akin to Terapagos' ability). There isn't a limit on the number of Shadow Pokemon on a team.
The moveset limitation seems interesting to build around and can let us create some very interesting move distribution. A Shadow mon is obviously powerful offensively, giving it near-perfect coverage in one move (which can offset it not getting STAB). Defensively, resisting Shadow is a huge benefit (since there's no STAB, the BP does all the heavy lifting). How moves adapt to this could be interesting as well - the more Shadow moves a Pokemon gets, the less slots for other moves it can run, which could make some unable to run Protect, Fake Out and other meta relevant moves, and so the moves it would get to run would need to be designed around that.
Soo Yoshi left a comment:
For attackers, making it a Shadow (instead of a regular mon) opens up perfect coverage in a single move slot (2x effectiveness vs everything will hit harder than a STAB attack). Depending on its ability to run boosting moves (if it has less than 4 Shadow moves), it could end up snowballing quick. Something like CB Tauros would also be a very scary Shadow mon since it's locked to one move anyways, and this move would have 2x effectiveness on everything.
On defense, the key value is resisting Shadow attacks from the above attackers. It's probably a requirement to have at least one just to be able to switch into Shadow attacks (since being a Shadow effectively quarters damage from Shadow attacks compared to regular mons). Something like Metagross or Arcanine, which have a lot of defensive value already, could benefit from this, especially if their Shadow movepool lets them still run options like Protect. While Shadow attackers don't really get to use their offensive typing, defenders do, and so defensive answers with good typings can get a lot of value from also resisting Shadow attacks.
With this slate again featuring slots for a new Shadow moves, here are a couple rules/notes for that:
- The new Shadow move must be Shadow-type
- The new Shadow move's name must be two words, with the first word being "Shadow"
- All the tips for making Shadow moves listed above still apply here
- Below I've listed every Pokemon that currently doesn't have 2 Shadows move, if you need inspiration on what direction to take a completely new Shadow move, since these mons will need those slots filled:
:ditto::smeargle::unown: (weird cases) :Lugia: (for a reason)
And lastly, below is the template for making Shadow move submissions, as well as the rules for making subs:
Blank Template
Name: Power: Accuracy: PP: Category: Type: Effect: Priority: Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Potential Pokémon With This Move: Justification:
Template With Explanations
Name: [Name of the move] Power: [Base Power of the Move] Accuracy: [Accuracy of the Move. Has to be a multiple of 5] PP: [Power Points of the Move. Has to be a multiple of 5] Category: [Physical, Special, or Status - Note that offensive Shadow moves are allowed to be either Physical or Special] Type: [Type of the Move] Effect: [What the move does. Can be a secondary effect or an inherent effect like Throat Chop's. Also include whether or not the move is a spread move] Priority: [The priority bracket of the move. The standard priority of a move is 0] Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): [Specify which flags the move has. A full list can be found here.] Potential Pokémon With This Move: [List a few Pokémon that could learn this move. The council ultimately decides what Pokémon get what moves, but we'll generally use the same list] Justification: [Explain what purpose this move would serve]
Type: Shadow Effect: Summons Shadow Sky for 5 turns, a weather that damages all non-Shadow Pokemon for 1/8 of their max HP at the end of every turn. Weather Ball becomes 100 BP and Shadow-type. Priority: 0 Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): N/A Potential Pokémon With This Move::ho-oh::articuno::zapdos::moltres::voltorb::taillow::nincada::trapinch::diglett::treecko::meowth::tauros::pichu::volbeat::illumise::deoxys::elekid::poliwag::vulpix::larvitar::castform::ponyta::kyogre::groudon:
After Slate 1 - Adding Shadow Moves (5 Days per slate)
After we decide how our Shadow Pokemon mechanic works, we'll then adjust every Shadow move from XD: Gale of Darkness to fit a PvP setting and make them fit better into whatever our Shadow mechanics are. 3 Shadow moves will be slated each slate for you to sub changes to, for a total of 6 slates for all 18 original Shadow moves, plus any additional slates if deemed necessary. Submissions should follow the template in the spoiler tag below and be balanced for the Orre Colosseum metagame (taking our Shadow Pokemon mechanics into account), as the council reserves the right to veto any submissions deemed broken, uncompetitive, or uncodeable. Shadow moves should generally follow the same idea of their original versions, but they don't need to. You can only make 1 submission per move slated.
Resubs:
Name: Shadow Shatter
Power: 50
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 8 Category: Physical
Type: Shadow
Effect: If any adjacent foe has selected any status move and has not yet had a chance to execute its move, Shadow Shatter will first remove the effects of Reflect/Light Screen from the target(s)' side of the field, then inflict damage; otherwise, Shadow Shatter will fail. The target(s) are hit even if it is protected by a protection move, and removes the effects of protection moves from the target(s) for the remainder of the turn.
Priority: +2
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): N/A Potential Pokémon With This Move::Spearow::Doduo::Seel::Goldeen::Tauros::Natu::Pineco::Skarmory::Heracross::Stantler::Regirock::Registeel::Regice:WIP Justification: Not exactly thrilled with the Shadow Break we have... but I wasn't participating until recently, so made my own. It's basically if Sucker Punch/Upper Hand adopted the love child of Brick Break and Feint for status moves.
Type: Shadow
Effect: Reverses all stat modifiers on the target Pokémon, making positive changes negative and vice versa, and then switches the user out to the next ally in line that has not fainted. If the target is an ally, also switches places with the ally before switching the user out. Fails if all the target's stat stages are neutral (equal to 0), or if there are no ally Pokemon that have not fainted. Cannot be stolen by Snatch and is not prevented by Taunt.
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): N/A Potential Pokémon With This Move: :Mantine::Skarmory::Solrock::Lunatone: WIP Justification: My old Shadow Shed, somewhat modified. This is now Topsy-Turvey & Ally Switch that allows some pivoting, but the pivoting option is much more predictable and relies on your team building because it's gonna feel like "I was hit by Circle Throw" rather than "I used U-Turn".
I suggest to change my Shadow Blitz’s Recoil into 33% of damage done, and increase to 45 Base Power (from 40). If the move turned out to be too powerful with the buff in practice, revert the base power increase.
Name: Shadow Armor
Power: –
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 8 Category: Status
Type: Shadow
Effect: The user make opponents’ moves, including Shadow-type moves, redirected to the user. The user also cannot faint by direct damage until the next turn. Redirected Shadow Moves will increase the user’s Speed by one stage for each hit. It cannot be used consecutively.
Priority: +4
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Cannot be called by Copycat, Mimic nor Mirror Move even by Shadow Pokémon. Potential Pokémon With This Move: :golduck::ursaring::shiftry::roselia::zangoose::lapras::kingler::solrock: Justification: Allows Pokémon with low speed and good attacking stats to protect their non-Shadow teanmate and potentially increase their Speed, but cannot be used consecutively meaninthe player must strategically use it and can potentially leave the user vulnerable against priority attacks. Can be made powerful against Shadow spam by increasing Speed by two instead of one, or even by three if a Shadow teammate also attacks the user.
Name: Shadow Burst
Power: 200
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 8 Category: Special
Type: Shadow
Effect: Ignores opponent’s Special Defense and Evasion changes. Hit all adjacent targets. User faints on use.
Priority: 0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Explosion (stopped by Damp) Potential Pokémon With This Move: :wigglytuff::claydol::lunatone::lanturn::altaria::tropius::chimecho: Justification: A devastating move that wins Calm Mind wars against non-Shadow Pokémon, but requires use of Protect to make the most of the move due to user having middling Special Attack at worst and hold off until all opposing Shadow Pokémon are down, lest you’ll end up wasting a Shadow Pokémon.
Type: Shadow Effect: Heals the user by 33% of its max HP, plus an additional 25% for every Shadow-type on the field (including itself), raises user's defense by 1 and deals 25% damage to every Shadow-type on the field (including itself).
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): N/A Potential Pokémon With This Move: :Bulbasaur::weedle::venomoth::igglybuff::lileep::Chimecho::kirlia::mantine::wynaut::pineco::gulpin::koffing::mudkip::lapras: Justification: Based on the best fake move ever created ever, Shadow Siphon serves to be the chief form of recovery while still being an active detriment to foes. I see it as the spiritual opposition to Shadow Half, a move that fails against Shadow Pokémon. This move on the other hand, is much more potent when used against opposing Shadow Pokémon. Grass, Poison, Ghost and Bug type mons are the preferred users in my opinion (but so many have 2 slots filled :/), but a few cute support mons are nice too.
Type: Shadow Effect: The user loses 25% of its maximum HP. Lowers the Special Attack and Special Defense of the opposing side by 1 stage. User then switches out. Single Target. Priority: 0 Flags: Protect Potential Pokémon With This Move: :charmander::Caterpie::Psyduck::Magnemite::staryu::cyndaquil::misdreavus::lanturn::skarmory::seedot::chansey::horsea::feebas::lotad: Justification: We have invented Parting Shot (again). Only it has a lot less PP. And requires HP sacrifice. Allows you to pivot, which is not a concept in Gen 3 yet, while being useful for both offensive and defensive teammates.
Type: Shadow Effect: Causes the target to take its turn after all other Pokemon this turn, no matter the priority of its selected move. Effect fails if the target already moved this turn. Priority: 0 Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Contact Potential Pokémon With This Move: :Ponyta::scyther::Krabby::Azurill::doduo::treecko::anorith::sneasel::teddiursa::donphan::carvanha::cubone::onix::makuhita: Justification: Really this is supposed to signify a physical STAB for the majority of mons that only have one move left. Quash is such a cool move I have to bring it back in some form, so these Pokémon are a combination of really fast attackers that can get off a Stall and shout down a slightly slower threat or bulky guys who appreciate the utility against outright walls.
Type: Shadow Effect: Either Physical or Special, whichever does more damage (a la Shell Side Arm). Lowers the user's corresponding attacking stat by 1 stage. Priority: 0 Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): N/A Potential Pokémon With This Move::ponyta::horsea::mew::pineco::sneasel::skarmory::stantler::treecko::lotad::seedot::nosepass::gulpin::carvanha::baltoy::snorunt::rayquaza: Justification: you know how a bunch of gen 3 mons are mixed attackers for no reason. This is the move they wish they had. Makes for a strong move with a drawback that, on certain Pokemon, makes it switch between being a physical and special move from turn to turn.
Type: Shadow Effect: Protects the user's side from Shadow-type moves for the rest of the turn. Same consecutive use rules as Quick Guard/Wide Guard (can be used consecutively without fail but has a chance to fail if used after Protect) Priority: 3 Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): N/A Potential Pokémon With This Move::bulbasaur::igglybuff::psyduck::magnemite::koffing::chansey::staryu::lapras::omastar::cyndaquil::chinchou::corsola::mantine::phanpy::mudkip::makuhita::aron::swablu::lunatone::solrock::lileep::feebas::chimecho::relicanth::jirachi: Justification: Wide Guard but against Shadow mons. It's a bit of a paradox, since you need to be a Shadow mon to use this move, but Shadow Pokemon aren't gonna want to use Shadow mons into that mon anyway, so this is mainly just insurance for your non-Shadow teammates and to be annoying against Shadow-heavy teams.
Type: Shadow Effect: Raises the user's critical hit ratio by 4. Priority: 0 Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Snatch Potential Pokémon With This Move::charmander::doduo::krabby::cubone::scyther::porygon::azurill::girafarig::teddiursa::slugma::ralts::slakoth::roselia::zangoose::anorith::tropius::spheal: Justification: I really needed something that both the strong physical and special attackers left could use without making some of them broken and settled on this funky setup move. +4 Crit Ratio in Gen 3 means you have a 50% chance to crit and you actually can't increase the chances any higher than that, even with high crit ratio moves. But, that's fine, since crits dealing double damage in Gen 3 along with all their usual benefits makes this move really scary in the right cases, especially on spread move users like Shadow Storm Charizard and Earthquake Marowak.
What I said last time about Shadow Shatter still applies, it's pretty nice.
Shadow Switch is interesting, I like Topsy-Turvy and the kinda-sorta drawback of kinda-sorta random pivoting is interesting but I truthfully don't fully know how I feel about the whole package
I almost named my shadow guard sub shadow shield that would've been awkward
Shadow Shield is a bit redundant with Shadow Panic, which is also a Shadow version of Protect (albeit a weaker version), so I would probably swap this out for something different
Shadow Burst is pretty scary but probably fine with the right distribution, it's just Shadow Explosion (right down to being effectively 500 BP, against non-Shadows) and Explosion is a defining move of this metagame, but nothing in the suggested distribution seems too broken with it. I may recommend lowering the power to somewhere in the 150-200 range, since unlike, Explosion and Self-Destruct, this doesn't have any immunities
Shadow Siphon is a neat healing move that can punish your opponent for having too many Shadow mons, still not sure if the Defense boost is necessary but I won't make you remove it or anything
Shadow Slip is about as fine as it was when you first subbed it
Shadow Stall is neat, offensive Quash sounds super strong in the right situations, especially since this gen doesn't have dynamic Speed changes so this is one of the only ways to change turn order on the fly
Shadow Shield is a bit redundant with Shadow Panic, which is also a Shadow version of Protect (albeit a weaker version), so I would probably swap this out for something different
Shadow Burst is pretty scary but probably fine with the right distribution, it's just Shadow Explosion (right down to being effectively 500 BP, against non-Shadows) and Explosion is a defining move of this metagame, but nothing in the suggested distribution seems too broken with it. I may recommend lowering the power to somewhere in the 150-200 range, since unlike, Explosion and Self-Destruct, this doesn't have any immunities
I reworked Shadow Shield into Shadow Armor, which is Follow Me + Endure (+1 Speed if hit by a Shadow Move) but restricted to Pokémon with good attacking stats but low Speed and average bulk at best and cannot be used until after next turn akin to Gigaton Hammer.
Shadow Burst’s BP is decreased to 200 per your suggestion.
Voting rules are a bit different for this slate, as we don't have different categories. This time, you may vote for up to 3 submissions with 1 self-vote, with votes being unweighted. The 3 subs with the most votes will win.
Type: Shadow Effect: Protects the user's side from Shadow-type moves for the rest of the turn. Same consecutive use rules as Quick Guard/Wide Guard (can be used consecutively without fail but has a chance to fail if used after Protect) Priority: 3 Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): N/A Potential Pokémon With This Move::bulbasaur::igglybuff::psyduck::magnemite::koffing::chansey::staryu::lapras::omastar::cyndaquil::chinchou::corsola::mantine::phanpy::mudkip::makuhita::aron::swablu::lunatone::solrock::lileep::feebas::chimecho::relicanth::jirachi: Justification: Wide Guard but against Shadow mons. It's a bit of a paradox, since you need to be a Shadow mon to use this move, but Shadow Pokemon aren't gonna want to use Shadow mons into that mon anyway, so this is mainly just insurance for your non-Shadow teammates and to be annoying against Shadow-heavy teams.
Name: Shadow Armor
Power: –
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 8 Category: Status
Type: Shadow
Effect: The user make opponents’ moves, including Shadow-type moves, redirected to the user. The user also cannot faint by direct damage until the next turn. Redirected Shadow Moves will increase the user’s Speed by one stage for each hit. It cannot be used consecutively.
Priority: +4
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Cannot be called by Copycat, Mimic nor Mirror Move even by Shadow Pokémon. Potential Pokémon With This Move: :golduck::ursaring::shiftry::roselia::zangoose::lapras::kingler::solrock: Justification: Allows Pokémon with low speed and good attacking stats to protect their non-Shadow teanmate and potentially increase their Speed, but cannot be used consecutively meaninthe player must strategically use it and can potentially leave the user vulnerable against priority attacks. Can be made powerful against Shadow spam by increasing Speed by two instead of one, or even by three if a Shadow teammate also attacks the user.
Type: Shadow Effect: Heals the user by 33% of its max HP, plus an additional 25% for every Shadow-type on the field (including itself), raises user's defense by 1 and deals 25% damage to every Shadow-type on the field (including itself).
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): N/A Potential Pokémon With This Move: :Bulbasaur::weedle::venomoth::igglybuff::lileep::Chimecho::kirlia::mantine::wynaut::pineco::gulpin::koffing::mudkip::lapras: Justification: Based on the best fake move ever created ever, Shadow Siphon serves to be the chief form of recovery while still being an active detriment to foes. I see it as the spiritual opposition to Shadow Half, a move that fails against Shadow Pokémon. This move on the other hand, is much more potent when used against opposing Shadow Pokémon. Grass, Poison, Ghost and Bug type mons are the preferred users in my opinion (but so many have 2 slots filled :/), but a few cute support mons are nice too.
