Gen 7 OM Competitive Discussion

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
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The purpose of this thread is to discuss the upcoming Gen 7 and their effects on our OMs. This thread is not for speculation. It's for theorymonning based on known information.

Because there are a lot of OMs, discussion for all of them would become too hectic. I'm restricting discussion to only the following formats: 1v1, Almost Any Ability, Anything Goes, Balanced Hackmons, Mix and Mega, and Sketchmons.

Please preface your post with the OM you are talking about.

New Pokémon

Araquanid - Water / Bug | Water Bubble / Water Absorb | 68 / 70 / 92 / 50 / 132 / 42
Bewear - Normal / Fighting | Fluffy / Klutz / Unnerve | 120 / 125 / 80 / 55 / 60 / 60
Bruxish - Water / Psychic | Dazzling / Strong Jaw / Wonder Skin | 68 / 105 / 70 / 70 / 70 / 92
Buzzwole - Bug / Fighting | Beast Boost | 107 / 139 / 139 / 53 / 53 / 79
Celesteela - Steel / Flying | Beast Boost | 97 / 101 / 103 / 107 / 101 / 61
Crabominable - Fighting / Ice | Hyper Cutter / Iron Fist / Anger Point | 97 / 132 / 77 / 62 / 67 / 43
Comfey - Fairy | Flower Veil / Triage / Natural Cure | 51 / 52 / 90 / 82 / 110 / 100
Decidueye - Grass / Ghost | Overgrow / Long Reach | 78 / 107 / 75 / 100 / 100 / 70
Dhelmise - Ghost / Grass | Steelworker | 70 / 131 / 100 / 86 / 90 / 40
Drampa - Normal / Dragon | Berserk / Sap Sipper / Cloud Nine | 78 / 60 / 85 / 135 / 91 / 36
Golisopod - Bug / Water | Emergency Exit | 75 / 125 / 140 / 60 / 90 / 40
Gumshoos - Normal | Stakeout / Strong Jaw / Adaptability | 88 / 110 / 60 / 55 / 60 / 45
Guzzlord - Dark / Dragon | Beast Boost | 223 / 101 / 53 / 97 / 53 / 43
Incineroar - Fire / Dark | Blaze / Intimidate | 95 / 115 / 90 / 80 / 90 / 60
Kartana - Grass / Steel | Beast Boost | 59 / 181 / 131 / 59 / 31 / 109
Komala - Normal | Comatose | 65 / 115 / 65 / 75 / 95 / 65
Kommo-o - Dragon / Fighting | Bulletproof / Soundproof / Overcoat | 75 / 110 / 125 / 100 / 105 / 85
Lunala - Psychic / Ghost | Shadow Shield | 137 / 113 / 89 / 137 / 107 / 97
Lurantis - Grass | Leaf Guard / Contrary | 70 / 105 / 90 / 80 / 90 / 45
Lycanroc (Midday) - Rock | Keen Eye / Sand Rush / Steadfast | 75 / 115 / 65 / 55 / 65 / 112
Lycanroc (Midnight) - Rock | Keen Eye / Vital Spirit / No Guard | 85 / 115 / 75 / 55 / 75 / 82
Magearna - Steel / Fairy | Soul-Heart | 80 / 95 / 115 / 130 / 115 / 65
Marshadow - Fighting / Ghost | Technician | 90 / 125 / 80 / 90 / 90 / 125
Mimikyu - Ghost / Fairy | Disguise | 55 / 90 / 80 / 50 / 105 / 96
Minior - Rock / Flying | Shields Down | 60 / 60 / 100 / 60 / 100 / 60
Minior (Red Core) - Rock / Flying | Shields Down | 60 / 100 / 60 / 100 / 60 / 120
Mudsdale - Ground | Own Tempo / Stamina / Inner Focus | 100 / 125 / 100 / 55 / 85 / 35
Necrozma - Psychic | Prism Armor | 97 / 107 / 101 / 127 / 89 / 79
Nihilego - Rock / Poison | Beast Boost | 109 / 53 / 47 / 131 / 103
Oranguru - Normal / Psychic | Inner Focus / Telepathy / Symbiosis | 90 / 60 / 80 / 90 / 110 / 60
Oricorio - Fire / Flying | Dancer | 75 / 70 / 70 / 98 / 70 /93
Palossand - Ghost / Ground | Water Compaction / Sand Veil | 85 / 75 / 110 / 110 / 75 / 35
Passimian - Fighting | Receiver / Defiant | 100 / 120 / 90 / 40 / 60 / 80
Pheromosa - Bug / Fighting | Beast Boost | 71 / 137 / 37 / 137 / 37 / 151
Primarina - Water / Fairy | Torrent / Liquid Voice | 80 / 74 / 74 / 126 / 116 / 60
Pyukumuku - Water | Innards Out / Unaware | 55 / 60 / 130 / 30 / 130 / 5
Ribombee - Bug / Fairy | Honey Gather / Shield Dust / Sweet Veil | 60 / 55 / 60 / 95 / 70 / 124
Salazzle - Poison / Fire | Corrosion / Oblivious | 68 / 64 / 60 / 111 / 60 / 117
Shiinotic - Grass / Fairy | Illuminate / Effect Spore / Rain Dish | 60 / 45 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 30
Silvally - Normal | RKS System | 95 / 95 / 95 / 95 / 95 / 95
Solgaleo - Psychic / Steel | Full Metal Body | 137 / 137 / 107 / 113 / 89 / 97
Tapu Bulu - Grass / Fairy | Grassy Surge / Telepathy | 70 / 130 / 115 / 85 / 95 / 75
Tapu Fini - Water / Fairy | Misty Surge / Telepathy | 70 / 75 / 115 / 95 / 130 / 85
Tapu Koko - Electric / Fairy | Electric Surge / Telepathy | 70 / 115 / 85 / 95 / 75 / 130
Tapu Lele - Psychic / Fairy | Psychic Surge / Telepathy | 70 / 85 / 75 / 130 / 115 / 95
Togedemaru - Electric / Steel | Iron Barbs / Lightning Rod / Sturdy | 65 / 98 / 63 / 40 / 73 / 96
Toucannon - Normal / Flying | Keen Eye / Skill Link / Sheer Force | 80 / 120 / 75 / 75 / 75 / 60
Toxapex - Poison / Water | Merciless / Limber / Regenerator | 50 / 63 / 152 / 53 / 142 / 35
Tsareena - Grass | Leaf Guard / Queenly Majesty / Sweet Veil | 72 / 120 / 98 / 50 / 98 / 72
Turtonator - Fire / Dragon | Shell Armor | 60 / 78 / 135 / 91 / 85 / 36
Vikavolt - Bug / Electric | Levitate | 77 / 70 / 90 / 145 / 75 / 43
Wishiwashi - Water | Schooling | 45 / 20 / 20 / 25 / 25 / 40
Wishiwashi (School) - Water | Schooling | 45 / 140 / 130 / 140 / 135 / 30
Xurkitree - Electric | Beast Boost | 83 / 89 / 71 / 173 / 71 / 83

Alola Forms

Dugtrio - Ground / Steel | Sand Veil / Tangling Hair / Sand Force | 35 / 100 / 60 / 50 / 70 / 110
Exeggutor - Grass / Dragon | Frisk / Harvest | 95 / 105 / 85 / 125 / 75 / 45
Golem - Rock / Electric | Magnet Pull / Sturdy / Galvanize | 80 / 120 / 130 / 55 / 65 / 45
Marowak - Fire / Ghost | Cursed Body / Lightning Rod / Rock Head | 60 / 80 / 110 / 50 / 80 / 45
Muk - Poison / Dark | Poison Touch / Guttony / Power of Alchemy | 105 / 105 / 75 / 65 / 100 / 50
Ninetales - Ice / Fairy | Snow Cloak / Snow Warning | 73 / 67 / 75 / 81 / 100 / 109
Persian - Dark | Fur Coat / Technician / Rattled | 65 / 60 / 60 / 75 / 65 / 115
Raichu - Electric / Psychic | Surge Surfer | 60 / 85 / 50 / 95 / 85 / 110
Raticate - Dark / Normal | Gluttony / Hustle / Thick Fat | 75 / 71 / 70 / 40 / 80 / 77
Sandslash - Ice / Steel | Snow Cloak / Slush Rush | 75 / 100 / 120 / 25 / 65 / 65

Zygarde (10%) - Dragon / Ground | Power Construct | 54 / 100 / 71 / 61 / 85 / 115
Zygarde (Complete) - Dragon / Ground | Power Construct | 216 / 100 / 121 / 91 / 95 / 85

New Abilities

Battle Bond: Transforms Greninja into Ash-Greninja if it causes the opponent to faint.
Beast Boost: This Pokémon's highest stat is boosted one stage every time it knocks out a Pokémon.
Berserk: Increases the Pokémon's Special Attack by one stage when HP reaches 50%.
Comatose: The Pokémon can only be affected by the Sleep status condition.
Corrosion: Allows the Pokémon to inflict the Poison status on Steel or Poison-type Pokémon.
Dancer: If another Pokémon in the field uses a dancing move, then the Pokémon uses the same move immediately afterward.
Dazzling: Prevents moves with an increased Speed Priority from hitting.
Disguise: Allows the Pokémon to escape damage from an enemy’s attack just one time.
Electric Surge: Activates Electric Terrain when being sent out.
Emergency Exit: Switches out when its HP becomes half or less.
Fluffy: Halves the damage taken from attacks that make direct contact, but in return it also doubles the damage taken from Fire-type moves.
Full Metal Body: The Pokémon’s stats will not be lowered by the effects of an opponent’s moves or Ability.
Galvanize: Electric -ate (changes Normal-type moves to Electric + boosts them).
Grassy Surge: Activates Grassy Terrain when being sent out.
Innards Out: Inflicts the same damage taken on the opponent if the Pokémon faints.
Liquid Voice: Makes sound-based moves Water-type.
Long Reach: This Pokémon's moves don't make contact.
Merciless: This Pokémon's attacks become critical hits if the opponent is poisoned.
Misty Surge: Activates Misty Terrain when being sent out.
Power Construct: Changes Zygarde's form to Complete Forme when its HP is less than 50%.
Power of Alchemy: Copies the Ability of an ally that faints.
Prism Armor: Reduces damage taken from super-effective attacks.
Psychic Surge: Activates Psychic Terrain when being sent out.
Queenly Majesty: Prevent opponents from using priority moves.
Receiver: Inherits the Ability of an ally that faints.
RKS System: Similar to Multitype, this Pokemon's type changes depending on its held item.
Shadow Shield: The Pokémon will take less damage from an attack that lands when the Pokémon has full HP.
Slush Rush: Doubles Speed in hail.
Soul-Heart: Raises the Special Attack by one stage when a Pokémon on the field is knocked out.
Stakeout: Deals twice the normal damage if the opponent just switched into battle.
Stamina: Increases the Pokémon's Defense by one stage when it's hit by an attack.
Steelworker: Boosts Steel moves 1.3x.
Surge Surfer: Doubles this Pokémon's Speed in Electric Terrain.
Tangling Hair: Gooey clone (contact moves lower opponent's Speed).
Triage: Makes restorative moves gain the highest priority.
Water Bubble: Halves Fire-type damage and prevents burns.
Water Compaction: Increases the Pokémon's Defense by two stages when it's hit by a Water-type move.
Wimp Out: When this Pokémon's HP drops below half in battle, it will run away or swap out for another Pokémon.

New Moves

Accelerock - Learnt by Lycanroc (Midday): Rock | Physical | 40 BP | Quick Attack clone.
Baneful Bunker - Learnt by Toxapex: Poison | Status | Protects the user and poisons any attacker that makes contact.
Beak Blast - Learnt by Toucannon: Flying | Physical | 100 BP | Two-turn attack. Burns this Pokémon if the opponent makes contact during the charge turn.
Clanging Scales - Learnt by Kommo-o: Dragon | Special | 110 BP | Lowers user's Defense.
Core Enforcer - Learnt by Zygarde: Dragon | Special | 100 BP | If the Pokémon it hits has already moved this turn, the Pokémon's Ability is removed.
Darkest Lariat - Learnt by Incineroar: Dark | Physical | 85 BP | Ignores the opponent's stat changes.
Dragon Hammer - Learnt by Alolan Exeggutor: Dragon | Physical | 90 BP
First Impression - Learnt by Golisopod: Bug | Physical | 90 BP | Only works on the first turn out.
Fleur Cannon - Learnt by Magearna: Fairy | Special | 130 BP / 90 Acc | Lowers user's Special Attack by 2.
Floral Healing - Learnt by Comfee: Fairy | Status | Restores this Pokémon's HP by 1/2; 2/3 in Grassy Terrain.
High Horsepower - Learnt by Mudsdale: Ground | Physical | 95 BP / 95 Acc | Makes contact.
Ice Hammer - Learnt by Crabominable: Ice | Physical | 100 BP / 90 Acc | Lowers user's speed.
Instruct - Learnt by Oranguru: Psychic | Status | Makes the target use its last used move again.
Liquidation - Learnt by Araquanid: Water | Physical | 85 BP | Lowers target's Defense.
Lunge - Learnt by Araquanid: Bug | Physical | 80 BP | Lowers target's Attack.
Moongeist Beam - Learnt by Lunala: Ghost | Special | 100 BP | Ignores the target's Ability.
Multi-Attack - Learnt by Silvally: Normal | Physical | 90 BP | Works like Judgment.
Nature’s Madness - Learnt by Tapu Bulu/Fini/Koko/Lele: Special | Reduces the target’s HP by half.
Pollen Puff - Learnt by Ribombee: Bug | Special | 90 BP | Restores HP if used on an ally.
Psychic Fangs - Learnt by Bruxish: Psychic | Physical | 85 BP | Breaks Reflect and Light Screen.
Shell Trap - Learnt by Turtonator: Fire | Special | 150 BP | Sets a trap whereby if the user is hit by a Physical attack, the attacker is hit by an explosion that deals much greater damage.
Solar Blade - Learnt by Lurantis: Grass | Physical | 125 BP | Two-turn move.
Sparkling Aria - Learnt by Primarina: Water | 90 BP | Heals the opponent's burn.
Spectral Thief - Learnt by Marshadow: Ghost | 90 BP | Steals the target's stat boosts before attacking.
Speed Swap - Learnt by Ribombee: Psychic | Status | Swap Speed stats with the target.
Spirit Shackle - Learnt by Decidueye: Ghost | Physical | 80 BP | Prevents Pokémon from switching out.
Spotlight - Learnt by Shiinotic: Normal | Status | Directs all attacks to a specific target for the current turn.
Stomping Tantrum - Learnt by Bewear: Ground | Physical | 75 BP | Power doubles if the user's previous failed.
Sunsteel Strike - Learnt by Solgaleo: Steel | Physical | 100 BP | Ignores the target's Ability.
Thousand Arrows - Learnt by Zygarde: Ground | Physical | 90 BP | Hits Pokémon in the air and knocks them to the ground.
Thousand Waves - Learnt by Zygarde: Ground | Physical | 90 BP | Prevents Pokémon from switching out.
Trop Kick - Learnt by Tsareena: Grass | Physical | 75 BP | Lowers opponent's Attack.

Z-Moves: Incredibly powerful moves that can only be used once per battle. Takes up an item slot (Z-Crystal) and requires the Pokémon to know a move of the same type.

Electric - Gigavolt Havoc
Fire - Inferno Overdrive
Grass - Bloom Doom
Water - Hydro Vortex

Eevee - Extreme Evoboost: Raises Attack, Defense, Sp. Atk, Sp. Def, and Speed by 2
Pikachu - Catastropika
Snorlax - Pulverizing Pancake
Tapu Bulu/Fini/Koko/Lele - Guardian of Alola

Note: I'm only including competitively relevant information. So, only fully-evolved Pokémon, Abilities with effects, etc...
 
For ability-based metas (AAA/BH), I'm looking forward to the potential of Disguise + Sash hazard leads, as if I understand the ability correctly, you get a guarenteed 2-3 hazards assuming the opponent doesn't Taunt or status you. Dazzling could also be neat on priority-weak fastmons (Volcarona comes to mind). Stamina and Fluffy bode well for physical walls, and combo well with certain Pokemon (Stamina Skarmory can Roost stall most physical attackers, Fluffy Scizor is fun since it dies to all Fire attacks anyway).

I'm curious if: 1) Triage only affects direct restoration or also draining moves like Giga Drain and Leech Seed and 2) Z-moves can be Sketched (relevant to Sketchmons)
 
i can see dazzling being very influential in the current metas and future ones like bh/aaa, this ability can change the basically everything about a meta,
looking forward to seeing it in action. its feels like most situations would be who can setup first with a dazzling user and who is the faster dazzling user i hope there's a catch to this ability
 
(Talking about BH)
With the fact that we can use megas in BH without them holding the appropriate mega stone, how would Z-moves work in this case? would we allow them to be used without holding the z-crystal? And if they are allowed to be used freely I have a feeling stall will become a lot less viable, what with base 200+ (i'm assuming the BP to be such because it was just said to be "extremely powerful") moves being used freely.
 
Looking forward to people strategically using Z-Moves to strike at the right time and remove an important core in the rival team, especially stall. My guess is the Z-Blaster (plz can this be a name thingy) gonna belong to a high physical attack type with great neutral coverage (fairy/ghost maybe dragon as well).

Stall and bulky teams are gonna have problems for sure, which is ok for me :)

Depending on the stats and evo line if any, look for a Mimikyu high usage. Ghost/Fairy is alreay one of the last and best typings we never experienced before, now if they make Fire/Fairy or Fighting/Fairy we are now complete...

Edit: But it is not so gloomy for stall after all, they have corrosion, again pending on stats (hopefully speed) and evo line if any. Spamming Toxic day and night fits right in the agenda.
 
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Z Moves I feel will gt a common nice as a Stallbreaker move. I'd say this opens the door to more aggressive play, but the new abilities seem to also reinforce defensive play majorly, so I dunno.

Mimikyu will certainly be a very popular poke in the early stages if for it's typing and ability alone(and because we all love it I guess too), and Mudsdale and Bruxish will probably get niches in doubles.
 
(Talking about BH)
With the fact that we can use megas in BH without them holding the appropriate mega stone, how would Z-moves work in this case? would we allow them to be used without holding the z-crystal? And if they are allowed to be used freely I have a feeling stall will become a lot less viable, what with base 200+ (i'm assuming the BP to be such because it was just said to be "extremely powerful") moves being used freely.
In all likelihood, that would warrant a ban. Nothing that powerful can persist. Take a look at the existing V-Create Primal Don for instance. Walls already have a tough time walling it. It's too bulky to be KOed by FakeSpeed. And you thought you can give bulky stuff insane-BP STABs? Never mind, I didn't see that the moves can be used only once. In that case, let's just wait for the BPs to be declared. Also, what does it mean that they can be used only once? Do these moves only have 1 PP? If that is the case, would Recycle/Harvest Leppy Berry help?

I'm personally curious about the following too:

1. What would Dancer do to PH Ogre's viability?

2. Ate Vs. Dazzling.

3. Banded Stakeout STAB KOff

4. Specd/Choiced Electric Surge Volt Switch teams (i.e. 2-3 mons using with Specs/Scarf). They can also work well with Banded Stakeout UTurn mons to make a complete VoltTurn team.

Magearna would also serve as a great replacement for DoomGlow Dialga, what with its arguably better typing.
 
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Chloe

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In terms of AG, a lot of the current Pokémon are definitely meta changing despite their potentially frail stats.

Klefki is going to receive an upgraded form of Numel in Own Tempo Mudsdale, while the presence of Dazzling Bruxish doesn't help Prankster users much either. Mudsdale switching in on a Swagger could be devistating, along with its decent offensive/defensive typing in pure Ground. Based on its dex entry, it seems to be quite slow; however, if its Defense stat is high enough tanking Groudon's Precipice Blades wont be such a difficult task. In some situations it could potentially be more optimal than SD Ground Arceus just due to its Klefki immunity.

More on Bruxish, while it does technically stop the majority of Klefki's set, it is weak to Foul Play and in turn is an inferior Klefki check than Mudsdale. Albeit it also takes zero damage from the second most common move in the metagame, ExtremeSpeed. While this is nice and all, Leftovers Skarmory still sounds like a better Klefki check and Arceus check, due to its formidable defensive typing.

Tapu Koko is quite a nice addition as it sets up Electric Terrain on switch in, thus preventing Darkrai from spamming Dark Void. If it does begin to see usage, Sludge Bomb may become standard on Darkrai over Nasty Plot/Taunt, heavily hindering its capability.

On the cover legends, they don't necessarily impress me that much in terms of the AG meta. Lunala's screaming use Yveltal and Darkrai, and is an inferior Lugia by the looks of things due to Ghost/Psychic typing. Solgaleo seems like it could be a decent Xerneas/Fairy Arceus check based on its defensive typing and high HP stat as seen through the footage; however, is probably dead weight against Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh.

Both of the latter Pokémon may see decline in usage if Complete Zygarde ends up being as powerful as expected, with an incredibly high HP stat (seen through footage) and access to 1k Arrows which hurts Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh immensely. Trapping Primal Groudon with 1k Waves and Coil spamming may happen which is keeping me up at night.

Rock Z-Move will hurt Ho-Oh even more; however, the Z-move I'm looking forward to mostly is Ground Z-Move if Hidden Power counts as having a move of the same type. Xerneas may find a way to pass Primal Groudon (and Solgaleo if that becomes common). Fairy/Ground is lovely coverage, and is the major reason Xerneas is being held back.

Magearna looks to be an inferior version of Mega Diancie, due to Magic Bounce just being so useful; regardless, the Fairy typing looks to be as useful as it is in ORAS.

I still haven't gotten to the Pokémon I'm scared of mostly in Gen 7 AG are Scarf Fissure Machamp and Eviolite Fissure Machoke. Due to the virtual consoles and their abilities to transfer to the main series games, Gen 1 sets can be used. I'm especially fearful of when people are going to start pairing them with Gravity / Trick Room and other strategies. They look devastating in the theorymoning Thimo, me and a few others have done in Custom Battle. We might start to see dumb stuff like Banded Talonflame high ladder just to check this kind of stuff.

I'm extremely curious how the SM AG metagame is going to play out. Idk if you could tell or not.

Edit: The Ground Z-Move Point is somewhat redundant when considering GeoXern, since it requires Power Herb to function and cannot use the Z-move without the corresponding Z-crystal.
 
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DEG

degdeg
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Resident 1v1 player here to discuss and theorymon Gen 7.

Drampa - From its typing and ability I don't really see it making an impact in 1v1, it's outclassed by other Dragon types such as Kyub and Zard X which can at least combat through with their stats or secondary typing, I highly doubt drampa gonna get stats as high as Kyub but we can wait and see. But Gen 7 coming in Fairy-types are going to plague the ladder, will Drampa have a spot?

Gumshoos - In general Normal types don't fare well in 1v1 unless they have access to strong moves such as Hyper Beam which is the case of both Porygon-Z and Meloetta, with Gen 7 coming on board if Gumshoos doesn't have insane attacking stats and good bulk I don't think it can climb above other normal types.

Lunaala - If this thing isn't going to be banned, it will be worth a high rank, it has the stats of a legendary Pokemon, amazing typing for 1v1, being immune to Hyper Beam spam and is able to power through Outrages from both Zard X and Kyub but it's pretty weak to every Dark type counting Mega Gyarados and Greninja or even dark coverage move from Porygon-Z, if this thing has Toxic/T-wave or an amazing support/offensive movepool it should be a metagame changing Pokemon.

Lurantis - do not use rank, yea I see no use of this. Dragon, Fire and Fairy types plague the tier so I doubt a monotyped grass type will do anything.

Magearna - This also should be a great Pokemon if it has the stats to be an insane Special Attacker, hell if it has coverage alongside its fairy and steel dual STAB it can even power through Charizard. Solid typing + Solid stats since legendary + hopefully coverage moves, digging that.

Mudsale - This one should also be huge if it has the correct stat distribution it will be able to boost its defenses after each attack rendering physical attackers weaker and weaked, its typing is also great this will stop the king of the hill charizard x from boosting, heck if it has stone edge it might be a good stuff.

Solgaleo- This is probably going to be banned due to its stats but its typing isn't that great for 1v1 pretty weak to most threats in the tier, Charizard, Mega Gyarados, Greninja but I'm pretty sure it will have insane bulk like Giratina which will result in its ban.

Tapu Koko - Hmm, more fairy types. I do feel Tapu Koko will have a place in the metagame if it has good stats since its typing allows it to beat pokemon such as Kyub, Mega Gyarados, Zard y. But yea it just depends on the stats

Vivavolt - Eh both Electric and Bug are alone a bad typing in the metagame so combined, don't think it's gonna be viable.

Alolan Exeggutor - Most pokemon I'm hyped up to if this thing has more than 95 speed and Head Smash I'd slap a scarf on it and call it a day, even if it's bulky I don't think it's gonna fare good in the metagame but we can only wait and see.

Alolan Ninetales - Weak typing so unless it's fast and have insane spa so it can be Specs don't think it's gonna be too much viable

Sandlash - Same as above.

Z moves - Yea please don't, if they have insane power I'm 100% sure that I'm going to be the first one to call for a quick ban. If they aren't that good, they won't have any effect. So it's either OP ban or Bad don't use cause they need an item to function.

Increased and Decreased Viability:

Decreased Viability: Kyurem-B - I feel like this is a Pokemon that is going to be hurt a lot in Gen 7 due to these new Fairy type Pokemon that aren't affected by Iron Head, if Earth Power isn't enough to OHKO them that means Kyu-B is falling down.

Increased Viability: Mega Charizard - Both Mega Charizard X and Y love these new Pokemon, the fire typing that they burn inside will never been as much dominant as it will be in Gen 7 due to all these new Fairy and Steel Pokemon, it's gonna be another good gen for both of these.
 

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
#freeinverse

Sketchmons is obviously somewhat difficult to theorymon for at this point, as we don't know movepools of new mons. All I can say is that Tarrows and Twaves are going to be very useful - I can see stuff like Celebi sketching Twaves for a Perish Trap set (functioning as a bulkier Dugtrio or something), and obviously Ground types love Tarrows - Lando-T no longer cares about Skarm, etc.

...actually, Z-moves could be very very influential, depending on how mechanics work. Given how powerful they look, I personally hope that they won't be usable in WiFi battles (or that Smogon decides not to adopt them for other reasons). However if they are available, then Sketchmons is the perfect meta to use them in (need Volcarona lure in Heatran but you've already sketched Earth Power? Mud Shot is here to save the day!).

I imagine one of Magearna's sets will be a Soul Heart cleaner in standard (assuming it has something resembling offensive presence), but I expect that to be about as popular as Moxie cleaners in AAA. This reminds me though - Fleur Cannon isn't mentioned in the OP at all. Magearna sketching recovery if it doesn't get it will be very cool in Sketchmons, what with that sexy typing.
 
i can see dazzling being very influential in the current metas and future ones like bh/aaa, this ability can change the basically everything about a meta,
looking forward to seeing it in action. its feels like most situations would be who can setup first with a dazzling user and who is the faster dazzling user i hope there's a catch to this ability
I suppose Mold Breakers can still utilize priority, and there's Core Enforcer, which will disable the dazzling user's ability if it gets hit by Core Enforcer after it moves (which is likely if the dazzling user is boosting its speed)
 

Squawkerz

Torchic is best mon
Speaking of Fleur Cannon, it is pretty much confirmed to be a fairy type Draco Meteor, so this can effect some metas

STABmons- I think the biggest benefit from this move is Mega Diancie, allowing it to deal way more damage than Moonblast. And it doesn't really care about the SpA drop either, as it can use Diamond Storm that isn't effected by the -2 SpA.

BH- This move is amazing for contrary users, such as Rayquaza-Mega and MMY, as it gives them a fairy type coverage move that gets effected by Contrary. Other than that, it is outclassed by Light Of Ruin on Magic Guard Pokemon, and Pixilate Boomburst.
 

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
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Other Metas Leader
Added some missing Pokemon. Wasn't sure if they were fully evolved or not. If evolutions are released then I'll replace them.

Z-Moves being sketchable could go either way, but seeing as how they are actual moves for each type, I'd wager that they will be hackable (BH).

Added Fleur Cannon because it is definitely Fairy-type; wasn't sure initially.
 

Imperator Romanum

formerly Grains of Salt
Wimp Out: When this Pokémon's HP drops below half in battle, it will run away or swap out for another Pokémon.

it's like an Automatic Momentum move, I guess. I honestly don't see a lot of use for this ability outside of Enchanted items. Unless you're specifically gaining anything from switching out, you don't want to be switching out. Especially when you'll be losing the ability to heal. But here are some sets for Enchanted Items.
Slowbro @ Wimp Out
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Thunder Wave
- Psyshock
- Slack Off

Amoonguss @ Wimp Out
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog

Alomomola @ Wimp Out
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 152 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic

All three are fairly straight forward but will surely aid in preventing the widdling of stall teams. Something I'm really worried about is the fact that if you have two pokemon with Wimp out they can never leave the 50% range. Lets say hazards are up, so they're both brought down by 25% points (3 Layers of Spikes) each turn they switch in. So you attack with your pokemon, bringing Alomomola down to 15%. And then Wimp out goes into effect, giving me the ability to swap out my pokemon, I swap into Slowbro. But Slowbro is also worn down too below 50%, so I can switch again, this time to Alomomola, who still only has recovered 8%. And so this constant switching beings, I go into Slowbro, back to Mola, back to Bro, then Mola again ect ect. This has to be continue until one of them reaches 76% from purely regenerator recovery HP, because then Wimp Out won effect.

Just so you're getting this right, I'll continue switching between Mola and Slowbro, regenerating atleast 8% HP each time. and I'll have to continue switching between them until I reach 76% HP, where hazards will no longer bring me into Wimp Out range.

Alternatively, and even worse.

If I have Intimidate Landorus-T and Intimidate Gyarados and both are below 50%, Wimp out will continue to switch both of them out bringing my opponent to atleast 6- Attack.

Or simply endless battles with Wimp out + Wimp out after both pokemon are brought below 50%.

EDIT:
Screen Shot 2016-08-07 at 17.55.34.png


Or simply endless battles with Wimp out + Wimp out after both pokemon are brought below
50%.

This is probably the most important part, Whim Out creates endless battles
 
Last edited:
Wimp Out: When this Pokémon's HP drops below half in battle, it will run away or swap out for another Pokémon.

it's like an Automatic Momentum move, I guess. I honestly don't see a lot of use for this ability outside of Enchanted items. Unless you're specifically gaining anything from switching out, you don't want to be switching out. Especially when you'll be losing the ability to heal. But here are some sets for Enchanted Items.
Slowbro @ Wimp Out
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Thunder Wave
- Psyshock
- Slack Off

Amoonguss @ Wimp Out
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog

Alomomola @ Wimp Out
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 152 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic

All three are fairly straight forward but will surely aid in preventing the widdling of stall teams. Something I'm really worried about is the fact that if you have two pokemon with Wimp out they can never leave the 50% range. Lets say hazards are up, so they're both brought down by 25% points (3 Layers of Spikes) each turn they switch in. So you attack with your pokemon, bringing Alomomola down to 15%. And then Wimp out goes into effect, giving me the ability to swap out my pokemon, I swap into Slowbro. But Slowbro is also worn down too below 50%, so I can switch again, this time to Alomomola, who still only has recovered 8%. And so this constant switching beings, I go into Slowbro, back to Mola, back to Bro, then Mola again ect ect. This has to be continue until one of them reaches 76% from purely regenerator recovery HP, because then Wimp Out won effect.

Just so you're getting this right, I'll continue switching between Mola and Slowbro, regenerating atleast 8% HP each time. and I'll have to continue switching between them until I reach 76% HP, where hazards will no longer bring me into Wimp Out range.

Alternatively, and even worse.

If I have Intimidate Landorus-T and Intimidate Gyarados and both are below 50%, Wimp out will continue to switch both of them out bringing my opponent to atleast 6- Attack.

Or simply endless battles with Wimp out + Wimp out after both pokemon are brought below 50%.

EDIT:View attachment 66786

Or simply endless battles with Wimp out + Wimp out after both pokemon are brought below
50%.

This is probably the most important part, Whim Out creates endless battles
This could be very problematic if wimp out allows you to switch to the Pokemon of your choice, but there is the chance that it switches to a random Pokemon. I personally would prefer if you could choose since it adds more competitive depth and can be checked with a simple clause, but it still hasn't been confirmed one way or the other. One of the main difficulties of theorymoning like this is that we still know so little. I'm not saying we shouldn't theorymon (I happen to thoroughly enjoy it!), but that we should be careful about not assuming too much.
 

bp scrub

rub a dub dub one scrub in a tub
uhh wimp out is an ability

Electric Surge could be nice for a gimmicky BH team, I know that HeadsILoseTailsYouWin and I have both tried out Electric Terrain teams with Prankster Nature Power, so not having to use a turn to set up the terrain would be nice.
 

Uselesscrab

suffering whiteout conditions
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
uhh wimp out is an ability
he was going for Enchanted Items

So that this isn't useless, some Balanced Hackmons thoughts:
  • I think it's worth noting that Dazzling on BH sweepers might not only protect from -ate priority but also Prankster Topsy-turvy, Heart Swap, Haze, Spore, and other means of preventing sweeps. Could be useful combined with setup on a fast thing like Mega Mewtwo Y.
  • Not sure what would be the best BH Stakeout user. My first instinct was Doom Desire Magearna/Dialga for the same reason we often use Tinted Lens, but maybe that wouldn't be quite as effective.
  • Contrary Fleur Cannon sounds really irritating.
  • New Doom Desire user: Magearna with Tail Glow / Fleur Cannon (to take the place of Dialga's Draco Meteor) / Doom Desire / filler (e.g. Sunsteel Strike; more on that later)
  • Wimp Out into Shadow Tag imo
  • Sunsteel Strike and Moongeist Beam, the signatures of Solgaleo and Lunala, respectively, contain their own mini-Mold Breaker, which will significantly reduce the viability of Sturdy Shedinja. Since they're likely Steel- and Ghost-type, I wouldn't be surprised if they found some use. Shocked no one has said this yet!
  • Power Construct is a likely hardcoded ability that can now be used to block Skill Swap on BP teams. Same with Shields Down. I wonder if Disguise will be?
 

Funbot28

Porque yo soy tu veneno
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
So i know there maybe quite a bit more new moves that will probably be revealed in the new game, but I mainly wanted to focus on STABmons and the how the legalization of the signature Zygarde move Thousand Arrows.

This move helps out Ground types tremendously as it basically gives them a free STAB move to spam with little drawback due to the removal of the Flying type immunity that the move has the effect to bring. Potential users is kinda grey right now since all the info is still not out yet, but I definitely think this sole move will greatly affect the meta game. Especially with setup sweepers...
 
How useful would thousand waves be in STABmons? I can see it getting some use on bulkier ground types, but to my knowledge stall is rather limited in stabmons.
I'd assume it would be potentially used on setup sweepers to trap something which can't touch them
 
How useful would thousand waves be in STABmons? I can see it getting some use on bulkier ground types, but to my knowledge stall is rather limited in stabmons.
I'd assume it would be potentially used on setup sweepers to trap something which can't touch them
I can't think of any Ground setup sweepers who actually want something to stay in while they setup. Usually they want to snag the boost on a forced switch. That being said I can see potential use for Thousand Waves on Landorus-T, forcing physical attackers who can't beat Roost healing to die by Rocky Helmet damage. In terms of sweeping, maybe a Thousand Waves + Curse Hippowdon (though a mon like Hippo really relies on his sand to tank special hits). I do like the idea of a trolly Toxic-stall Gliscor with Thousand Waves
 
In BH Sunsteel strike/moongeist beam are pretty awesome, since it not only renders sheddy useless but setup sweepers can also blast through unaware and fur coat walls with ease, assuming of course that these moves will have a usable base power
 
BH

Berserk: Maybe some niche use, but most likely outclassed by other abilities, like Download, or moves, like Tail Glow.
Comatose: Perhaps some niche use for a Rest user.

Corrosion: Niche for dumping Toxic on Registeel, Aegislash, and so forth. Gengar too maybe.

Dancer: Another niche ability. Would be great if Tail Glow, Shell Smash, Coil, and Shift Gear were included. But, they're not.

Dazzling: RIP Prankster. Would also hit -ate hard but, it'd be like the Soundproof situation. They could either just Boomburst the Dazzler or just use Return.

Disguise: This sounds interesting, but is it on every switch-in or just once per battle? Either way, I think stuff like Poison Heal will continue to be the generally better option.

Electric Surge: This could be quite interesting, especially if we get a Damp Rock equivalent item for it. You'd need to build a team around it, however. Adaptability / Tinted Lens / Sheer Force likely outclass if you only have one Pokemon on your team who could take advantage of this ability though.

Fluffy: Unless S/M adds a bunch of contact special moves, Fur Coat outclasses.

Full Metal Body: We already don't use its equivalents.

Power Construct: Probably will be useless since Zygarde will likely be usable in its full form from the get go. Probably. *Glares at Arceus forms.*

Shadow Shield: See Full Metal Body.

Soul Heart: We already don't use Moxie.

Stakeout: I think this ability will be quite potent whenever the meta shifts into any sort of pivot focus. You'll definitely see it come up when U-Turn and Parting Shot become popular. Although, based on the description, it may not have any impact on slow pivots so... maybe it'll end up actually encouraging everyone to run U-Turn Registeel even more. >.>

Stamina: Interesting, but outclassed by Fur Coat I'd imagine.

Triage: Largely outclassed by Prankster and Gale Wings. For moves like Giga Drain though, might have some use. Suddenly imagining a gimmicky Triage Shaymin-Sky with Oblivion Wing and Giga Drain. Shame it's already fast and is also frail.

Wimp Out: Could have some niche use. Shame you can't run Regenerator at the same time.


1. What would Dancer do to PH Ogre's viability?

2. Ate Vs. Dazzling.

3. Banded Stakeout STAB KOff

4. Specd/Choiced Electric Surge Volt Switch teams (i.e. 2-3 mons using with Specs/Scarf). They can also work well with Banded Stakeout UTurn mons to make a complete VoltTurn team.

1. Nothing. At best you're just keeping Kyogre at square-one offensively and defensively, so you don't beat it unless your Dancer would beat it anyway. At worst, Kyogre runs Tail Glow and just blasts you. Unaware would be a better option if you want to check Kyogre's boosts like that since it stops Tail Glow too and also other set-up Pokemon and moves.

2. Boomburst.

3. Unless the opponent switched into Knock Off, this won't be any different.

4. This could be interesting and is something I thought of when I saw the ability, but you'll need a way to deal with Groudon. And Volt Absorb and friends if the strategy is prevalent enough to warrant using those.
 

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