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Metagame Gen 8 1v1 Speculation, Suggestion, and Updates Thread

Dynamax should be banned from the outset. It fundamentally doesn’t work for 1v1. It increases the HP of the Dynamaxed Pokemon (benefiting fast all out attackers more than bulky pokemon, as % increase is higher) increases damage (benefitting all our attackers) Boosts damage for many moves like Water attacks (benefiting the now bulky fast attackers) and gets rid of status moves altogether for 3 turns. This is the important part. Fast All Out Attackers gain 100% of the benefits. Bulky Pokemon suffer in every way possible. Fast Attackers getting more value out of the HP, fast attackers being able to do more damage every turn, fast attackers not having the enemy able to boost, not having the enemy be able to recover HP. Also Dynamax doesn’t take an item. Choice Items v Leftovers/Berry isn’t a good matchup. Stall becomes 100% irrelevant. Bulky offense loses the ability to use set up moves. Set Up offense is the same. The problem with dynamax is that Max Guard is akin to protect, and has a chance to fail. This makes Set Up Offense, Stall, and Pseudo Stall fully irrelevant and Bulky offense somewhat irrelevant. Also Gimmick sets are unusable

Dynamax unfairly monopolizes the power of one playstyle, eliminating the viability of 3 of the 5 main set types, as well as gimmicks fully, and severely weakens the potency of 1 of the 2 remaining set types. Fast all out attackers gain too Much for the absolute zero penalty they receive. Compare this to the 0 benefit + absolute penalty that stall and set up receive. It’s not hard to see that Dynamax doesn’t fit in a real 1v1 metagame, and therefore should be banned from the outset.
 

Jocus

Banned deucer.
I'd prefer if we had several 1v1 OMs:
  • The normal (Dynamax quickbanned, Species Clause removed, several other banned mons unbanned, etc.)
  • The Dynamax metagame
  • A metagame that bans Dynamax but includes all Pokemon, moves, etc. that were purged along with Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves
 
I agree that Dynamax/ Gig max should be banned from the start.

Reasons for Ban
  • Item holding is allowed with dynamax
    • the first way this could be more powerful than megas or z
  • because every pokemon can use it, it will be brought into every battle and be accounted for every battle
    • second way that this is more centralizing than z and megas and instead of having to guess if theyre z now its knowing theyll dyna and having to prepare ahead of time for that certanty
      • hot take: an example of something just as centralizing that everyone brings into battle is stab but dyna isnt as core to the series bc it missed 7 gens
  • The power buff to attacks may put it on par that z-moves and megas add power to a pokemon (closer to megas as you'd have to average how much damage z-moves + coverage add)
  • No real nerfs come with using it bc as of now, it looks like there are no ability removals, or stat nerfs like speed
    • third reason why this is stronger than megas
Reasons for not banning
  • If there is a speed nerf as lack of speed is kinda a death sentence
    • still suspect lmao bc bulk is the only thing that can carry a pokemon with a lack of speed and dyna gives hp (if not sorry)
  • It may breath life into weaker pokemon with low HP stats.
    • Shuckle, NFE, the Regi's, really look into steel dark ghost and fairies with <80 hp as they have low damage attacks capping around 80-95 bp and nice defenses. Could be hilarious to see bronzong, Marowak-A, Doublade, Klefki, etc take this hp buff and power buff and run with it. Eviolite+Dyna is scary
  • There could be a reason unknown right now to not dynamax at the first turn of the battle
    • just speculation but it seems like the best counter to dyna is to dyna with your own bulk boost and stall out the opponents 3 turns.
  • seeing how big Dynamaxed joltik and wailord get
    • showdown scaling pokemon when

I'll expect a big shift in favoring bulky pokemon. With megas and Z out, there is going to be a drop in the power creep. Even more so when we quick ban dyna.

This will make it easier to tank moves and we wont have to worry about bulkier megas like slowbro and m-venus so itll be a bit more forgiving on bulky pokemon's low attack stats (alomamola lol.) Having around 130ish base attack could be considered strong - shocking.

Gen 7 Slipped in a load of slower - yet strong pokemon. I also wouldnt be surprised if there were a drop in gen 4 and 7 pokemon from Sword and Shield's neighboring games. (rip kart, rip chomper?)

tldr bigger emphasis on base stats especially on bulky sets for tanks or stall
 
Last edited:
fricc chris sniped me
On Dynamax: As we don't know much about S&S and Dynamax mechanics, we shouldn't already be advocating for pro-ban and no-ban. Obviously there are some things that we know about it such as:
  • Max Moves, which are a more powerful version of the moves the Pokemon already knows, which can be forms of all moves which go through Protect.
  • Stats are increased in battle when Dynamaxed.
  • Dynamax lasts 3 turns.
  • You can hold an item while using Dynamax
Hey, this looks familiar!
This is very similar to Z-Moves from Gen 7, but multiple moves can be used and it's over the span of 3 turns, and they're more powerful because of the stat increases. Now, all Pokemon get Dynamax, so it seems at face value that it's balanced and equal, right? Well what I think it boils down to is if the stat changes are enough in stats like HP, Defense, or Special Defense to not just get OHKOed by a speedy Max Move Pokemon, so there can be more playstyles than just grab your Choice Scarf Porygon-Z and ram through every threat in your way. Overall I think we need to wait on opinions of this until we actually get to play Gen 8 1v1 for more accurate opinions.
hey this was probably nonsensical because im dumb
 
If you're not being OHKOed by Porygon-Z because you Dynamaxed, you have to OHKO it back because your status moves are all gone.
Sorry I just worded that badly, meant to say the Dynamax allows more diverse playstyles (from other Pokemon, dynamaxed or not) to come out like bulky offense
That's not every gen 1 mon, though...

Also my boi :ferrothorn: looks epic as many Fire-types that were prevalent this gen are gone or can't use their main attraction in S&S. Also bulky threats in general would be good to counteract Dynamax.
 
Last edited:

Jocus

Banned deucer.
With Dynamax, there are only two major ways where you can beat the opponent:
(a) outspeed and kill quickly.
(b) take a hit and kill in retaliation.
The exception is Sturdy, which can set up and then Dynamax. But it needs to boost Speed (such as by Shell Smash), or else it's 2HKOed.
 
fricc chris sniped me
On Dynamax: As we don't know much about S&S and Dynamax mechanics, we shouldn't already be advocating for pro-ban and no-ban. Obviously there are some things that we know about it such as:
  • Max Moves, which are a more powerful version of the moves the Pokemon already knows, which can be forms of all moves which go through Protect.
  • Stats are increased in battle when Dynamaxed.
  • Dynamax lasts 3 turns.
  • You can hold an item while using Dynamax
Hey, this looks familiar!
This is very similar to Z-Moves from Gen 7, but multiple moves can be used and it's over the span of 3 turns, and they're more powerful because of the stat increases. Now, all Pokemon get Dynamax, so it seems at face value that it's balanced and equal, right? Well what I think it boils down to is if the stat changes are enough in stats like HP, Defense, or Special Defense to not just get OHKOed by a speedy Max Move Pokemon, so there can be more playstyles than just grab your Choice Scarf Porygon-Z and ram through every threat in your way. Overall I think we need to wait on opinions of this until we actually get to play Gen 8 1v1 for more accurate opinions.
hey this was probably nonsensical because im dumb
I thought it was only HP that was increased.
 

Jocus

Banned deucer.
yes we must allow Zard X to be reborn as Gigantamax Charizard
yes we must allow Pikachu to be viable for once
yes we must allow Butterfree to become the greatest speed trap of all time
 
My opinion is actually reversed; Keep dynamaxing but ban gigantamaxing - can I ask why you choose to keep one but not the other?
Dynamaxing as a concept is overpowered since every single pokemon can abuse of it, while if only certain pokemon can get them, they can be prepped for accordingly.
(That is if a regular pokemon can even somewhat contend with it)
 
Dynamaxing as a concept is overpowered since every single pokemon can abuse of it, while if only certain pokemon can get them, they can be prepped for accordingly.
(That is if a regular pokemon can even somewhat contend with it)
I mean the whole gen 8 isnt really something you can just prep for
 

pulsar512b

Banned deucer.
We don't even know how many gigantamax pokemon there are going to be yet, and if there ends up being even like 20 prevalent gigantamax pokemon in 1v1 it'll surely put a strain on teambuilding.
considering that we have at least that many megas, I think gigantadynamax should not be banned immediately, but probably should be suspected within the first month, while dynamax should be quickbanned.
 

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