Spore: should it be banned or not?
Welcome to my post, as u might know, im Yoko, ive been playing Balanced Createmons for about a month consistently, but have been playing since early January, Today im here to post a opinion on Spore, A prevalent move in Balanced Createmons, This will feature both arguments on why Spore should be or Should not be banned, personally i am a bit biased towards Spore, As i do think it isnt good for the meta, But i will try to be as neutral as i can be, so u should take my opinion with a grain of salt but i feel like Spore should atleast be addressed a little.
So what is Spore, What Pokemon use it?
This part will be separated into 2 sub-parts aswell, Spore is a generation 1 move that has 100% Accuracy and will always make the opponent fall asleep for atleast 2 Turns, in Balanced Createmons its mechanics remain the same however it is given a steep price of 2.5, making it tied for the most expensive Status move in the tier, Showcasing its power in the Tier, in other tiers such as Balanced Hackmons, Sleep moves in general are banned due to there uncompetitiveness in the tier, while im not saying that Balanced Createmons and Balanced Hackmons are the same, It is still good to look at other tiers for information on what is considered "not needed in the meta" and "uncompetitive" as everyone has there own opinions on what they are considered generally, now we'll discuss some prominent Spore users in Balanced Createmons, Both Attacking and Defensive ones, these Sub-parts will feature mons, but the main thing we'll be looking at is the Abilities and Moves, as Stat Spreads, Typing, and Pokemon can be changed to the user's preference, even the Moveslots besides Spore can be considered changeable depending on team structure, all of these sets were provided from the official Balanced Createmons Server or either by Myself so shoutout to them, anyways lets dive into:
Spore on Offensive Pokemon:
Amoonguss (F) @ Safety Goggles / Covert Cloak / White Herb
Ability: Adaptability
Shiny: Yes
Hidden Power: Fire / Fighting
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 170 Atk / 18 Def / 171 SpA / 18 SpD / 116 Spe
Naive Nature
- Spore
- Shell Smash
- Photon Geyser
- Bitter Blade / Collision Course
This set provided from The official Balanced Createmons Server by GhastlyPixie which focus's on Spores ability to provide the user free turns to either set up with Shell Smash or pick up an KO on a weakened defensive mon, Photon Geyser allows the Pokemon to be able
to pick up KO'es on Fur Coat and Physically Defensive Pokemon in the tier which may try to switch into an Bitter Blade, it also allows this Set to be able to ignore Abilities, making it harder to wall, making it only be truely walled by bulky Dark-types with Unaware or Fur Coat and Prankster Pokemon, other counters could include Pokemon that can dissuade it from coming in like other offensive Pokemon's as well as Imposter Pokemon who either force it out as to not risk being damaged or forcing it into a speed tie if the Pokemon is low enough to be KO'ed by its STABs. As for the items, Safety Goggles is to avoid being Spored by opposing Pokemon or Imposter, Covert Cloak helps avoid chip from moves like Salt Cure and Mortal Spin, and White Herb can be used to negate Shell Smash's Stat Drops. this set comes to around 25k Points, which is a decently expensive for an mixed attacker, however u can run alternatives for Shell Smash to lower its costs.
Koraidon @ Toxic Orb / Flame Orb
Ability: Poison Heal / Guts
Hidden Power: Ghost
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 150 Atk / 70 Def / 1 SpA / 70 SpD / 80 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Victory Dance
- Facade
- Knock Off
This Set was Made by urs truely and is inspired by
sojukirin's above Guts set, this set also focuses on The free Turns Generated by Spore but with Poison Heal or Guts, which pair nicely with Spore as these abilities require the Pokemon to be already Toxic or Burned making the Pokemon immune to Imposter and Regular Pokemon's Spore, Poison Heal in particular works well with Spore as Spore can grant it free turns to be able to regenerate HP, this set is is also a bit more Bulky than most offensive Attackers while being slower, as Spore can provide opportunities to be able able to setup easier, making the low speed manageable, while the extra bulk helps in conjuction with Poison Heal to make the Pokemon harder to kill, providing more opportunities to Spore, ways to counter this set include Unaware, Ghost + Grass Typing with decent Physical Bulk, Prankster, Fur Coat Ghosts with either an typing resistant to Dark or with a way to remove stat changes, Safety Goggles Pokemon, Bulky Grass-types, and Good as Gold Pokemon. as for Items and Abilities, this set costs 31k with Poison Heal + Toxic Orb being on the higher end of sweepers due to the high current price of Poison Heal, However u can also run Guts with Flame Orb like the aforementioned Guts Kirin set to lower this price down to 15k, allowing for more bulk or Speed depending on the user.
Meowscarada @ Rocky Helmet / Safety Goggles
Ability: Pixilate
Hidden Power: Grass / Water
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 175 Atk / 30 Def / 1 SpA / 30 SpD / 115 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Population Bomb / Surging Strikes
- Extreme Speed
- Spore
- Coil / Victory dance
This is another set by GhastlyPixie (Thank You for Helping with this <3 i altered it a bit), This set Focuses on the Ability Pixilate with Rocky Helmet to be able to Imposter-Proof Itself, Population Bomb + Extreme Speed can allow this Pokemon to be able to Spore the opposition and be able to Delete most non-Resistant Pokemon, Coil in combination with this sets already high Speed allows Meowscarada to able to hit all Population Bomb hits consistently, however Victory Dance can be run instead with Surging Strikes and Lower Speed to be able to hit Fire-types for super effective and Steel-types for neutral, making it still be imposter-proof and have a better matchup into resistances to Fairy-type moves at the cost of Damage, Ways to counteract this set include, defensive Unaware and Prankster Pokemon, defensive fire-types if not running surging strikes, defensive Steel-types, Haze/Topsy-Turvy defensive Pokemon, Pokemon that are faster and can Ohko it, and Furcoat mons. This Sets price ranges between 22-24k depending on whichever options u decide to use.
Spore on Defensive Pokemon
Spore primarily is always more valuable on offensive Pokemon as its ability to generate free turns are more appreciated on offensive Pokemon, Another reason for Spore not being that well on defensive Pokemon is that Defensive Pokemon cannot control who they Spore or who they dont effectively unlike Offensive Pokemon which can control what Pokemon will switch into them to take a hit, as almost any Pokemon can switch into an Defensive Pokemon without having to worry about being severly damaged due to them not being invested in offense and usually only running moves like Knock Off which are manageable, However, Spore can also work for Defensive Pokemon Structures for multiple reasons, Spore can help hinder wallbreakers and Setup sweepers from being able to break through the opposition, providing an opportunity for either healing, trapping, or even removing the Pokemon Stat changes, Spore can also be useful to be able to safely pivot in a Pokemon without having to worry about being severly damaged, and finally Spore can be used to not let Imposter be able to come in freely on Defensive Pokemon if the said Defensive Pokemon isnt running an Counter to Spore aswell, well lets dive into some sets made by myself:
Calyrex-Shadow @ Safety Goggles / Covert Cloak / Binding Band
Ability: Unaware
Hidden Power: Ground
Tera Type: Dragon / Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 1 Atk / 90 Def / 1 SpA / 90 SpD / 68 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spore
- Spectral Thief / Parting Shot
- Thunder Cage / Magma Storm
- Heal Order
This set focuses on Spores great Synergy with Partial-Trapping moves, while also having unaware to be able to switch into any setup sweeper as long its Typing is neutral towards it, as previously mentioned Spore + Thunder Cage / Magma Storm have great Synergy together because these moves trap opponents which can prevent them from switching to an Spore-Immune Pokemon, while also hitting the Pokemon for residual damage all while the opposing Pokemon isnt able to move due to Spore. Spectral Thief can be used to get rid of Stat changes from opposing Pokemon, while Parting Shot allows this Pokemon to be able gain momentum on his checks. ways to Counteract this set are Pivoting, Grass-types when not running Magma Storm, Ghost-types, Good as Gold Pokemon who can reliably outheal the Partial Damage, Magic Bounce if not running safety goggles, Comatose Pokemon, and Imposter if not running Safety Goggles but it has to win a speed tie to spore first and u have to be chipped beforehand. as for items, if not running Safety Goggles for Regular and Imposter Spore, u can opt for going Grass typing over Dragon, Covert Cloak helps to avoid chipping from Mortal Spin and Salt Cure while also being able to avoid secondary affects like flinching, and Binding Band, while a bit unusual, Increases ur Partial-damaging from 1/8th to 1/6th max HP. This set in total costs around 21k, being decently price for an Unaware Pokemon.
Morpeko @ Covert Cloak / Safety Goggles
Ability: Magic Bounce / Good as Gold / Comatose
Hidden Power: Normal
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 1 Atk / 90 Def / 1 SpA / 90 SpD / 67 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Parting Shot / Teleport
- Heal Order
- Haze / Topsy-Turvy
This set primarily uses Magic Bounce to able to suprise the Opponent, while also having Options such as Good as Gold and Comatose for Status's and Sleep respectively, helping against the Imposter Matchup if not running Magic Bounce with Safety Goggles. Parting Shots allow it to pivot out from other defensive Pokemon and checks, alternatively Teleport can be used instead to be able pivot out of Imposter and Opposing Magic Bounce and Good as Gold Pokemon. Haze eliminates the opposing Pokemons Stat changes, while Topsy-Turvy can be used instead to invert them at the cost of 0.5 pt more. ways to Counteract this set are Defensive Pokemon immune to Spore, Grass-types, opposing Good as Gold, Magic Bounce, and Comatose Pokemon, Imposter when running Magic Bounce if Safety Goggles has been Knocked off or not Used, Misty Surge, and Taunt Pokemon. the items are pretty explanatory so i wont be discussing them after this point unless they are needed to be explained. this sets price ranges from 11-12k when using Comatose, 22-24k when using Magic Bounce, and 26-28k when using Good as Gold, allowing for many different price ranges depending on team composition.
Annihilape @ Safety Goggles / Covert Cloak
Ability: Fur Coat / Ice Scales
Hidden Power: Steel
Tera Type: Ghost / Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 1 Atk / 80 Def / 1 SpA / 80 SpD / 65 Spe
Impish Nature / Bold Nature
- Spore
- Mortal Spin / Knock Off
- Heal Order
- Parting Shot / U-turn / Knock Off
Another Set by me altered with the help of the Balanced Createmons Server, this set just focuses on being as bulky as possible while having Spore to dissaude Attackers, Mortal can be used to Spread Poison on Non-Steel and Covert Cloak Pokemon while also being improofed by the Steel-typing, while Knock off can hinder both physical and defensive Pokemon, Parting shot lets this set even further hinder Pokemon by lowering its stats while keeping momentum, however u-turn could be used instead for Taunt Pokemon. ways to counteract this set are the usual Good as Gold, Magic Bounce, and Comatose Pokemon, Steel types, Covert Cloak Pokemon if not running Knock off, Defensive Pokemon, Taunt, and Misty Surge. as for abilities, Fur Coat can be used to help against Physically attacking breakers along with Impish Nature, while Ice Scales can help against Specially attacking breakers with Calm Nature, one thing to note is that when running these abilities u should always run either Safety Goggles or the Grass-typing over Ghost. this sets price ranges from 17-20k when running Steel and Grass, and 21-24k when running Steel and Ghost, being on the higher end of Defensive Pokemon.
now that we have discussed the uses of Spore, on both offensive and defensive pokemon, and its ability on change the game on them lets get into the main discussion of:
The Spore Ban Argument
As always before we get into this, this is just my opinion feel free to respond if u feel like i missed something. Spore, while having many counters towards it, still is largely able to completely shut down opponents for one to three turns like previously mentioned, which can be infact very useful for Attackers especially as u can generally Identify what the opponents main switchin will be by seeing if they have High Hp stats with middling Speed and good Defenses and allow for them to be able to setup for 3 turns at max, which in most cases if u arent running Unaware or Prankster, can be almost game-ending, especially if the said Pokemon is also Self-Improofed from Imposter, Currently in Balanced Createmons the Sleep Clause Mod exists, which limits the Spore user to be able to only put one Pokemon to sleep at a time, this does prevent teams from being completely shut down by fast Spore users and provides an opportunity for teams to be able to play around Spore, however, this does mean if the opposing Trainer doesnt have a way to fully deal with Spore they will have to sacrifice one of there Pokemons, usually either an defensive one or Imposter, to the sleep move, and on top of this nothing actually is stopping the said Pokemon from just attacking the Pokemon incoming if the opponent expects you to Spore, or even attacking out the Spore'd Pokemon if the opponent doesnt have a realiable switch-in to the incoming Move, as for defensive Pokemon, as previously mentioned they arent the best users of Spore, however the combination of Spore + an Trapping move like the previously mentioned Thunder Cage or Magma Storm does mean that they can chip down the opponent with the residual damage while they arent able to move due to Spore, not allowing them to heal or switch out with an pivot move, these sets also can suprise the opponent and remove the idea of switching to an Pokemon to sack it to Sleep, even if the opponent has a Counter to the offensive Pokemon and Spore, an unlucky amount of Sleep Turns can mean they can be broken through easily, this can make Spore and even Sleep feel "uncompetitive" and mostly dependent on luck sometimes which can just ruin the game even if the opposition had a "winning" matchup. Also going a bit offside to the main of just Sleep moves in General, there is actually no proven downsides of banning Sleep moves for an Meta since it will always be a positive depending on how you frame it, as u can always argue for why a metagame is "better" with sleep moves in it or not, while Spore is the main User of sleep moves, if it does get banned then ppl will just use the cheaper less accurate moves, while sure the accuracy is lower, the lower price will certainly give them a niche on stuff like no guard and even some attackers, for example pokemon could still use Lovely Kiss with an trapping defensive set or an Offensive setup set which while being lower accuracy as mentioned costs 0.5 less than the aforementioned Spore if it does get Banned.
The Anti-Spore Ban Argument
all of the points that will presented here are either from the Balanced Createmons Server, or other Pokemon, so lets get into it, so firstly while it is true that Spore can be annoying to counter especially on a offensive Pokemon there still is a large amount of counterplay, some of the counterplays includes but not limited to Poison Heal, Magic Bounce, Safety Goggles, Misty Terrain, Guts, Comatose, Grass-types, Good as Gold, Misty Terrian, and Taunt, Subsitute can also be an counter to Spore if its setup beforehand, as these all can ruin Spore pretty much and ur bound to fight atleast one of these per matchup, secondly the Price and Opportunity Cost of Spore, 2.5pt for a move in general is something that most Pokemon cant afford, let alone Attackers who have to afford Moves, Setup, Abilities, Typings, and Spreads, causing them to be less powerful in general, this poses the problem of opportunity cost as you could spend those points on a strong breaking move or even get a cheaper move and buff your stats more, thirdly, The Sleep Clause Mod really can help to be an counter to Spore if played correctly, as you can sacrifice an Pokemon that already has a bad Matchup into your opponent or has already been hindered by, for example, Knock Off, another reason for an argument on why Spore shouldnt be banned is that it is generally easy to identify a Spore Pokemon if the opponent is good enough, as the Spore Pokemon will usually have high HP with Low Bulk and Middling Attack due to the fact on how draining Spore can be on the Teams points, and lastly in most matchups besides either fighting Hyper Offense, the effect of Spore would be less than, for example, another status such as Glare, Toxic, and Burn, since at minium 2 turns of sleep can be not as crippling as the aforementioned status's. Another reason for Spore not being bannable is that while sure it is "useable" on defensive Pokemon, it is generally considered to be way worse on them due to the fact that they cannot control who they spore or not effectively and how they really cannot do much to the opposition even after Sporing the Pokemon, and the price of Spore can make it so that the aforementioned defense Pokemon have to be less bulky or more expensive, which can be a deal breaker for most teams.
Final Regards
Well thats all for today, i hope u enjoyed reading all of this (no one did... im certain no one even read this lmao), anyways Thank you to the Balanced Createmons Server for helping to look at this, QC it, and help make sets, without you guys it wouldve taken more time <3, whether u like or dont like the opinion on Spore is purely up to you, maybe u want it banned, maybe u dont?, maybe u want sleep banned in general?, and maybe u even want Spore's price to be increased, that is all the yapping from me, Yoko out.
TLDR
Spore can be overcentralizing and Uncompetitive in this meta especially on offensive pokemon, however counterplay does exist like grass-types, good as gold, and Magic Bounce, however removing Spore would actually be a net positive for the meta in every way, since theres actually no competitive value for even keeping it in the tier.
Sleep has been a controversial topic for a while, mostly on offensive mons that can force switches or has few defined counters and thus capitalize heavily on their check being put to sleep. Some examples include Glimmer's Normal/Ground in their sample team, or Poison Heal setup sweepers. The best Sleep-inducing move in Spore could be blocked by Safety Goggles, but it is otherwise a mediocre item. Other sleep moves (and including Spore), could also be blocked or bounced by Good As Gold, Poison Heal, Magic Bounce, etc... but these abilities are very expensive and can't fit on every structure. Ultimately, Sleep-inducing moves have very few counterplay that you usually had to go out of your way to add in your team.
Comatose could be used in tandem with Sleep Talk to call negative priority moves, most notably phazing moves such as Whirlwind or Dragon Tail at normal priority, making it so that your opponent can never actually move unless if they use a priority move or are immune to phazing through ability or typing. In Generation 9 however, Comatose outside of ComaTalk is 99% outclassed by Purifying Salt as an ability, thus rendering it obsolete. Because of this, we can now clear up a complex ban and trade it for a ban with no collateral damage.
