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Metagame [Gen 9] Do Not Use (New VR)
- Thread starter cyclonez_
- Start date
Thank you to those who filled out the survey. Full results are in the Discord server, but I'll share the highlights here along with an update of how I think the metagame is shaping up.
Survey Results
The tiering survey, for anyone who didn't fill it out, had three parts--a general section devoted to the metagame at large, and then two sections to suspect tests out and suspect tests in. The council had had some suspect candidates (on both sides) in mind already but wanted to give the community at large an opportunity to chime in, and luckily, for the most part, we were on the mark.
The tier is in a fairly good place, but there is room for improvement. On average, the metagame was given a 7.6/10 for enjoyability, and a 6.6/10 for competitiveness and balance. While not poor ratings per se, this does show that there are things we can improve. The open ended-answers expressed frustrations with two main things, which I will share in their own sections below, those being Diglett-Alola and the hazard game.
In terms of suspect outs, the the only candidate which scored low enough to probably be left off the next survey is Bidoof. The others all had at least a third of the votes over a 3, which is enough to be worried about. The two who scored the highest were
Diglett-Alola and 
Shedinja. Diglett has its own section below so I'll save this, but I'll talk about Shedinja a little here.
It is a very strong Pokemon, forcing a lot of Pokemon out if they don't carry the specific move they need to hit it. It creates a lot of frustrating matchups because of this, as a well-played Shed is very hard to punish long-term. In addition, it gets strong anti-offense abilities, in the Swords Dance Sucker Punch combination that got Nidoran-M banned and is part of the Diglett complaints. The difference is it has access to a base 90 attack. With that said, it's not impossible to beat, as, being Shedinja, it can get pursuit trapped and otherwise forced out a lot due to its 1 HP. Mons can also just slot Toxic into their moveset to guarantee the kill, even if they risk getting Poltergeist'd to do so. Personally, I voted a 4 on the survey for Shedinja, and was not alone in doing so. I would love to suspect this down the line but its not a top priority.
Is Diglett-Alola broken, or just really good?
Diglett-Alola had a weird spread on the survey, pulling in multiple 5 responses but also some 1 responses. Some people believe it's a healthy metagame prescence due to its unique defensive typing. Yes, Diglett has actual defensive utility, because the Alolan form's Steel typing is the only Steel-type in the format. In addition, unlike some of our previous bans and ban candidates, Diglett-Alola does have consistent switch-ins. Both
Wooper and 
Gossifleur can switch in on whatever Diglett-Alola wants to do, along with some more niche things. Its speed tier and access to Sucker Punch also leaves it an important revenge killer, especially into Taillow.
With that said, a large contingency of the playerbase thinks that Diglett has too much offensive pressure to stay legal. Ground/Steel is a famously good typing, and its no exception here, hitting almost the entire metagame for neutral damage. There are two sets that have been mentioned as problematic. The first is the now-infamous SD SP set. Dual STABs to break through defensive cores, and Sucker Punch threatens to take out offensive Pokemon. Common counterpoints include that Diglett's base 55 attack, while good, isn't that good. +2 Sucker Punch doesn't KO some of Diglett's most prominent revenge killers, most notably Luvdisc, and overall isn't that strong. To this argument, good teambuilding should have a mon that either can live Diglett's STABs or survive a Sucker Punch and revenge kill.
The other dangerous set is Choice Band. I'm personally less experienced both playing with and against this set, but it features many of the same problems, lacking overall switch-ins. In addition, it has an easier time breaking through checks because of it, as the main counter to SD is Wooper. Choice Band can't break through Wooper immediately, but it needs only a smidgen of chip in order to pull it off. With a single layer of Spikes, Diglett breaks through long-term. This set is more prone to being revenge killed, yes, but it still can use Diglett's fantastic base 90 speed tier, and only needs to be paired with things that check Luvdisc and Scarf
Wattrel.
One final thing that adds to Diglett's prescence in the tier is the hazard game, which is outlined in more detail below. Because of the ubiquity of Eviolite in this tier, defensive Pokemon tend to not run Heavy-Duty Boots. This means that hazards really allow Diglett to force its way through. Band Diglett is likely to 2HKO Wooper with both a Spike and Rocks up, which is not particularly hard to do. Gossifleur really hates taking Spikes damage as well. Every defensive Pokemon, except for
Budew, who is almost always defensive on the special side anyways, is weak to Toxic Spikes. This makes hazard stack teams using Diglett, both band and Swords Dance, very strong and arguably the best archetype in the tier right now.
Do I think it's banworthy? I voted a 5 on the survey, because I think there absolutely needs to be a suspect test, and if I were to vote today I would vote to ban. I think some of the arguments for the Diglett ban also work against it, specifically on the hazards side vs. Band sets--every time you force it out, whatever switches in takes extra chip which punishes the Diglett for swapping out. Overall though, I struggle to see Diglett's long-term future in the tier due how warping it is in the builder. I know there is an argument that Diglett serves as a nice bit of glue to help pull teams together, and can check offensive Pokemon such as
Bramblin and Shedinja, but I think its prescence in the tier is overall more negative than possible.
The State of the Hazard Game 
I don't think the hazard game in the tier is in a bad spot, per se, but it certainly is in a frustrating spot. Two people writ in Bramblin as they Pokemon they'd want to remove despite it only earning just over a two in the numerical question. Is Bramblin broken? No, I don't think so, but it can be incredibly frustrating both in the builder and in-game. So many of the off-meta choices being used right now are being done specifically to mess with Bramblin (see how Itemless is Budew's most common item, and one of
Litwick's as well). Ghost/Grass is a great STAB combo and is backed up by 120 and 110 base power moves, along with a base 65 attack. It gets no setup moves, so you're rarely going to get 6-0'd by Bramblin. With that said, it's infamous for killing offensive mons that on paper should beat it such as an itemless Bramblin--Power Whip has a chance to kill after a layer of hazards and Shadow Sneak is a guaranteed kill! Its typing is fantastic into the majority of defensive Pokemon in the tier. The metagame has attempted to adapt to it, to some success (see Itemless Budew), but a lot of the Bramblin answers are pressured by Spikes. Offensively revenging it is difficult as it's a fast Spinner, so after the Rapid Spin, it may be fastest than your revenge killer, and we've been over how it is incredibly threatening to offensive mons. Right now, there's just very little reason to run any other hazard removal, when Bramblin just does it so much better. If you watch tournament games, count how many times a Bramblin goes for an obvious Rapid Spin, but the opponent can't spinblock because if Bramblin clicks Poltergeist the spinblocker is dead. There's been some developments, such as Rolycoly having multiple wins in the tour, but the metagame revolves around Bramblin and how other mons play into Bramblin offense teams.
So, if Bramblin isn't ban-worthy (and I don't currently believe it to be--it's probably #3 on my suspect out list, but I think I would currently vote DNB), the solution to make the hazard metagame more varied. Add a new hazard removal that competes with Bramblin for usage! There are three major contenders, those being Ducklett, Steenee, and Swablu.
Ducklett has a unique typing in Water/Flying, along with fairly balanced stats. It has useful bulk without being impenetrable, while also having useful offenses that prevent it from being passive. Water/Flying is well known to be a solid defensive typing, with some real downsides but a lot of upsides. Electric types being rare in DNU are also benefit it, with only Wattrel and the rare
Tadbulb being relevant (sorry to the one 
Shinx fan in the server). This typing is one of the biggest reasons for its inclusion on the slate, helping into Pokemon such as Diglett and Luvdisc. Its detractors worry about its offensive prescence, and questioning if Ducklett will ever actually be used for Defogging.
Steenee is another Grass-type Rapid Spinner, serving as a bit of a midground between the two prominent ones in the tier. It's significantly less passive than Goss, but it's a lot less frail than Bramblin is. It also has access to good coverage options, getting both Knock Off (incredibly useful in this tier) and Triple Axel. It's a spinner that beats Bramblin consistently, which is a good option to have in our current metagame. Common complaints with Steenee include that it will cut into the viability of two viable Pokemon, serving as a bit of power creep to the tier, along with its access to the two moves listed above. On paper, its scary offensively.
Swablu is the final hazard removal option that was on this slate. Swablu is a more traditional defensive option--fairly passive with strong bulk, hosting an impressive 45/60/75. For context, Gossifleur has 40/60/60,
Nacli has 55/75/35, and 
Jigglypuff has 115/20/25. It's right up there with the bulkiest-on-paper mons in the tier, with access to reliable recovery and a pseudo-status immunity in Natural Cure. It also has a unique defensive option in Cotton Guard to shore up its weaker defensive stat. The main arguments against it are pretty clear--it's just too bulky. It can take too many hits. It also gets a decent Normal/Flying STAB combination and Toxic access, so it's not as passive as some say.
Overall, between these three, I personally want to try Ducklett first, but discussions are ongoing, and it's likely that all three will be tested at some point.
New Challengers Approach?! 
As part of the survey, each of our potential new additions had the option to vote on how the user felt about them in the tier. One of the options was "Do not test, will be too weak (quickunban instead)". Following the results of the survey, three Pokemon got votes to quick-unban in this manner. After discussions with the council, we have decided to vote on the three mons, along with a fourth that had been previously discussed to quick-unban but was mistakenly left off the survey, to free. Voting is ongoing and results will be released tomorrow (or likely today when you read this). Any unbans would not be added to the Kickoff tour but will be allowed in Solomod Premier League, as there will be time to adjust to them before the start of the tournament.
Voting needs 3 of the 5 council members to vote to free them. The Pokemon slated to be voted on are as follows:
Beldum
Capsakid
Snorunt
Steenee
Thanks for reading. I need to go to bed. Expect voting results to be released tomorrow and the first suspect of the new 280 metagame will be announced later this week!
Survey Results The tiering survey, for anyone who didn't fill it out, had three parts--a general section devoted to the metagame at large, and then two sections to suspect tests out and suspect tests in. The council had had some suspect candidates (on both sides) in mind already but wanted to give the community at large an opportunity to chime in, and luckily, for the most part, we were on the mark.
The tier is in a fairly good place, but there is room for improvement. On average, the metagame was given a 7.6/10 for enjoyability, and a 6.6/10 for competitiveness and balance. While not poor ratings per se, this does show that there are things we can improve. The open ended-answers expressed frustrations with two main things, which I will share in their own sections below, those being Diglett-Alola and the hazard game.
In terms of suspect outs, the the only candidate which scored low enough to probably be left off the next survey is Bidoof. The others all had at least a third of the votes over a 3, which is enough to be worried about. The two who scored the highest were
Diglett-Alola and Shedinja. Diglett has its own section below so I'll save this, but I'll talk about Shedinja a little here. It is a very strong Pokemon, forcing a lot of Pokemon out if they don't carry the specific move they need to hit it. It creates a lot of frustrating matchups because of this, as a well-played Shed is very hard to punish long-term. In addition, it gets strong anti-offense abilities, in the Swords Dance Sucker Punch combination that got Nidoran-M banned and is part of the Diglett complaints. The difference is it has access to a base 90 attack. With that said, it's not impossible to beat, as, being Shedinja, it can get pursuit trapped and otherwise forced out a lot due to its 1 HP. Mons can also just slot Toxic into their moveset to guarantee the kill, even if they risk getting Poltergeist'd to do so. Personally, I voted a 4 on the survey for Shedinja, and was not alone in doing so. I would love to suspect this down the line but its not a top priority.
Is Diglett-Alola broken, or just really good? Diglett-Alola had a weird spread on the survey, pulling in multiple 5 responses but also some 1 responses. Some people believe it's a healthy metagame prescence due to its unique defensive typing. Yes, Diglett has actual defensive utility, because the Alolan form's Steel typing is the only Steel-type in the format. In addition, unlike some of our previous bans and ban candidates, Diglett-Alola does have consistent switch-ins. Both
Wooper and Gossifleur can switch in on whatever Diglett-Alola wants to do, along with some more niche things. Its speed tier and access to Sucker Punch also leaves it an important revenge killer, especially into Taillow.With that said, a large contingency of the playerbase thinks that Diglett has too much offensive pressure to stay legal. Ground/Steel is a famously good typing, and its no exception here, hitting almost the entire metagame for neutral damage. There are two sets that have been mentioned as problematic. The first is the now-infamous SD SP set. Dual STABs to break through defensive cores, and Sucker Punch threatens to take out offensive Pokemon. Common counterpoints include that Diglett's base 55 attack, while good, isn't that good. +2 Sucker Punch doesn't KO some of Diglett's most prominent revenge killers, most notably Luvdisc, and overall isn't that strong. To this argument, good teambuilding should have a mon that either can live Diglett's STABs or survive a Sucker Punch and revenge kill.
The other dangerous set is Choice Band. I'm personally less experienced both playing with and against this set, but it features many of the same problems, lacking overall switch-ins. In addition, it has an easier time breaking through checks because of it, as the main counter to SD is Wooper. Choice Band can't break through Wooper immediately, but it needs only a smidgen of chip in order to pull it off. With a single layer of Spikes, Diglett breaks through long-term. This set is more prone to being revenge killed, yes, but it still can use Diglett's fantastic base 90 speed tier, and only needs to be paired with things that check Luvdisc and Scarf
Wattrel.One final thing that adds to Diglett's prescence in the tier is the hazard game, which is outlined in more detail below. Because of the ubiquity of Eviolite in this tier, defensive Pokemon tend to not run Heavy-Duty Boots. This means that hazards really allow Diglett to force its way through. Band Diglett is likely to 2HKO Wooper with both a Spike and Rocks up, which is not particularly hard to do. Gossifleur really hates taking Spikes damage as well. Every defensive Pokemon, except for
Budew, who is almost always defensive on the special side anyways, is weak to Toxic Spikes. This makes hazard stack teams using Diglett, both band and Swords Dance, very strong and arguably the best archetype in the tier right now.Do I think it's banworthy? I voted a 5 on the survey, because I think there absolutely needs to be a suspect test, and if I were to vote today I would vote to ban. I think some of the arguments for the Diglett ban also work against it, specifically on the hazards side vs. Band sets--every time you force it out, whatever switches in takes extra chip which punishes the Diglett for swapping out. Overall though, I struggle to see Diglett's long-term future in the tier due how warping it is in the builder. I know there is an argument that Diglett serves as a nice bit of glue to help pull teams together, and can check offensive Pokemon such as
Bramblin and Shedinja, but I think its prescence in the tier is overall more negative than possible. The State of the Hazard Game I don't think the hazard game in the tier is in a bad spot, per se, but it certainly is in a frustrating spot. Two people writ in Bramblin as they Pokemon they'd want to remove despite it only earning just over a two in the numerical question. Is Bramblin broken? No, I don't think so, but it can be incredibly frustrating both in the builder and in-game. So many of the off-meta choices being used right now are being done specifically to mess with Bramblin (see how Itemless is Budew's most common item, and one of
Litwick's as well). Ghost/Grass is a great STAB combo and is backed up by 120 and 110 base power moves, along with a base 65 attack. It gets no setup moves, so you're rarely going to get 6-0'd by Bramblin. With that said, it's infamous for killing offensive mons that on paper should beat it such as an itemless Bramblin--Power Whip has a chance to kill after a layer of hazards and Shadow Sneak is a guaranteed kill! Its typing is fantastic into the majority of defensive Pokemon in the tier. The metagame has attempted to adapt to it, to some success (see Itemless Budew), but a lot of the Bramblin answers are pressured by Spikes. Offensively revenging it is difficult as it's a fast Spinner, so after the Rapid Spin, it may be fastest than your revenge killer, and we've been over how it is incredibly threatening to offensive mons. Right now, there's just very little reason to run any other hazard removal, when Bramblin just does it so much better. If you watch tournament games, count how many times a Bramblin goes for an obvious Rapid Spin, but the opponent can't spinblock because if Bramblin clicks Poltergeist the spinblocker is dead. There's been some developments, such as Rolycoly having multiple wins in the tour, but the metagame revolves around Bramblin and how other mons play into Bramblin offense teams.So, if Bramblin isn't ban-worthy (and I don't currently believe it to be--it's probably #3 on my suspect out list, but I think I would currently vote DNB), the solution to make the hazard metagame more varied. Add a new hazard removal that competes with Bramblin for usage! There are three major contenders, those being
Ducklett, Steenee, and Swablu.Ducklett has a unique typing in Water/Flying, along with fairly balanced stats. It has useful bulk without being impenetrable, while also having useful offenses that prevent it from being passive. Water/Flying is well known to be a solid defensive typing, with some real downsides but a lot of upsides. Electric types being rare in DNU are also benefit it, with only Wattrel and the rare
Tadbulb being relevant (sorry to the one Shinx fan in the server). This typing is one of the biggest reasons for its inclusion on the slate, helping into Pokemon such as Diglett and Luvdisc. Its detractors worry about its offensive prescence, and questioning if Ducklett will ever actually be used for Defogging.Steenee is another Grass-type Rapid Spinner, serving as a bit of a midground between the two prominent ones in the tier. It's significantly less passive than Goss, but it's a lot less frail than Bramblin is. It also has access to good coverage options, getting both Knock Off (incredibly useful in this tier) and Triple Axel. It's a spinner that beats Bramblin consistently, which is a good option to have in our current metagame. Common complaints with Steenee include that it will cut into the viability of two viable Pokemon, serving as a bit of power creep to the tier, along with its access to the two moves listed above. On paper, its scary offensively.
Swablu is the final hazard removal option that was on this slate. Swablu is a more traditional defensive option--fairly passive with strong bulk, hosting an impressive 45/60/75. For context, Gossifleur has 40/60/60,
Nacli has 55/75/35, and Jigglypuff has 115/20/25. It's right up there with the bulkiest-on-paper mons in the tier, with access to reliable recovery and a pseudo-status immunity in Natural Cure. It also has a unique defensive option in Cotton Guard to shore up its weaker defensive stat. The main arguments against it are pretty clear--it's just too bulky. It can take too many hits. It also gets a decent Normal/Flying STAB combination and Toxic access, so it's not as passive as some say.Overall, between these three, I personally want to try Ducklett first, but discussions are ongoing, and it's likely that all three will be tested at some point.
New Challengers Approach?! As part of the survey, each of our potential new additions had the option to vote on how the user felt about them in the tier. One of the options was "Do not test, will be too weak (quickunban instead)". Following the results of the survey, three Pokemon got votes to quick-unban in this manner. After discussions with the council, we have decided to vote on the three mons, along with a fourth that had been previously discussed to quick-unban but was mistakenly left off the survey, to free. Voting is ongoing and results will be released tomorrow (or likely today when you read this). Any unbans would not be added to the Kickoff tour but will be allowed in Solomod Premier League, as there will be time to adjust to them before the start of the tournament.
Voting needs 3 of the 5 council members to vote to free them. The Pokemon slated to be voted on are as follows:
Beldum Capsakid Snorunt SteeneeThanks for reading. I need to go to bed. Expect voting results to be released tomorrow and the first suspect of the new 280 metagame will be announced later this week!
| Candidate | cyclonez_ | R8 | gnsaigon | Woodchucknorris24 | Alon Guy Person | Verdict |
| Beldum | Keep Banned | Keep Banned | Keep Banned | Keep Banned | 0/5 -- STAYS BANNED | |
| Capsakid | Unban | Unban | Unban | Unban | 4/5 -- UNBANNED | |
| Snorunt | Unban | Unban | Unban | Unban | 4/5 -- UNBANNED | |
| Steenee | Keep Banned | Keep Banned | Keep Banned | Keep Banned | 0/5 -- STAYS BANNED |
While Woodchucknorris24 has not yet voted, the decisions have been set (and actually were before Alon Guy Person did, lol), and as a result, Capsakid and Snorunt are now freed in Do Not Use! Just as a reminder, these will not be freed in the Kickoff Tour, but will be freed starting in Solomod Premier League.
I'll explain my personal reasonings here:
I actually think Beldum will probably be okay here. It received votes to unban it when we suspect tested it in Legacy and revisiting it was on the table at one point, so I think the stronger metagame will leave it fine. I do think that due to its defensive typing and overall strength, though, it is just too strong to meet the threshold for a quick unban and should be a suspect candidate down the line. This thing looks fine at a glance, with a pair of base 62 attacking stats and usable bulk. That's until you look at its literally everything else. It's a mono-Grass Sun Sweeper without the tools that make a sun sweeper good, in a tier where there's multiple better Pokemon who fit that description that already struggle to see usage. It has a poor movepool, as well, having some coverage on the physical side but suffering from a lack of base power. I don't think it's going to be entirely unviable, being a physical sun sweeper is interesting, but it's not good, lol. Will probably end up in the low C tiers or even D tier. Snorunt has similar issues to Capsakid, with no good abilities and a poor movepool. It has okay attacking moves, unlike Capsakid it gets coverage on both sides. 50/50/50 bulk is solid, even if it gets no recovery, and 50/50 offenses on either side is usable. In addition, its mono-Ice typing is a lot more unique than Capsakid's mono-Grass, and it gets access to Spikes, so I think it will have a much easier time seeing usage. Probably a C+/C tier mon. I think this is an interesting suspect candidate, as discussed in my last post, but this is absolutely not quick-unban worthy. Not gonna elaborate too much since I wrote a whole paragraph yesterday.
New viability list just dropped!
Not going to go into every change, especially since we have new subranks, just some of the more notable ones.
Notable Rises
B+ -> A magic guard is an incredible ability, especially right now in a hazard stack metagame. Still a great defensive Pokemon, both Seismic Toss sets and Calm Mind sets are hella viable right now.
B -> A- fantastic wallbreaker. Surprisingly bulky and can recover health with Drain Punch, also gets access to broken Knock Off. Bulk Up Eviolite is the set.
B- -> A- Unaware is incredibly useful right now. Even though it's not a super consistent counter, as it can be forced through, it serves as one of the best answers to Diglett-Alola in the metagame while also providing assistance into others such as Roggenrola and Pikipek. Can also set hazards and spread status.
C -> A- To be honest this feels like a bit of an overreaction, I had it only in B+, but there is genuine, valid hype behind this mon. Nasty Plot + Tinted Lens is a great attacking combination offensively, and defensive sets using Night Shade have also been experimented with that can stuff some attackers.
D -> B- Zubat serves as the best counter to Budew, while also providing great utility and surprising power. Poison/Flying is an amazing typing in this tier which it uses to the best of its ability despite its mediocre stats.
D -> C+ Roly serves as a rapid spinner that Bramblin needs to think twice about spinblocking thanks to its access to Will-o-wisp. It's surprisingly bulky as well, and can set its own hazards if you want it to. Sorta passive and hates not having recovery but isnt a total sitting duck either.
Notable Drops
B+ -> B- Cherubi is a great sun sweeper, but that's all I've seen it do since the tier dropped. Sun is also not the best archetype right now. I could easily see it rising back up, both under sun or potentially on its on merit, but it's a hard fit on the vast majority of teams because there's a lot of competition for grass types right now.
B+ -> B- Impidimp is the best screen setter in DNU, but screens are certainly a struggle archetype, as there's not a lot of setup sweepers (and the few there are struggle into common speed control options). Screens aren't entirely unviable but they're far from consistent, and Impidimp's rank tanks as a result.
C -> D Mareep struggles to see viability due to competition from other, better Electric types, which push it out of the metagame by doing everything Mareep wants to do better. If for some reason you don't want to run Wattrel, you're still better off running Tadbulb over it in 90% of cases, and Tadbulb is already a fairly niche mon. Comparatively, Mareep does better into Gossifleur, but is worse off in almost every other matchup.
DNU UU Shifts
DNU tracks lower tiers, sorted by viability rank whenever a new Viability Rank drops, encompanying all Pokemon ranked at B- or below in the upper tier, minus any BL mons. Here are the tier shifts from this rank:
Rises to DNU OU:
Remains DNU UUBL:
Falls to DNU UU:
Not going to go into every change, especially since we have new subranks, just some of the more notable ones.
Notable Rises
B+ -> A magic guard is an incredible ability, especially right now in a hazard stack metagame. Still a great defensive Pokemon, both Seismic Toss sets and Calm Mind sets are hella viable right now. B -> A- fantastic wallbreaker. Surprisingly bulky and can recover health with Drain Punch, also gets access to broken Knock Off. Bulk Up Eviolite is the set. B- -> A- Unaware is incredibly useful right now. Even though it's not a super consistent counter, as it can be forced through, it serves as one of the best answers to Diglett-Alola in the metagame while also providing assistance into others such as Roggenrola and Pikipek. Can also set hazards and spread status. C -> A- To be honest this feels like a bit of an overreaction, I had it only in B+, but there is genuine, valid hype behind this mon. Nasty Plot + Tinted Lens is a great attacking combination offensively, and defensive sets using Night Shade have also been experimented with that can stuff some attackers. D -> B- Zubat serves as the best counter to Budew, while also providing great utility and surprising power. Poison/Flying is an amazing typing in this tier which it uses to the best of its ability despite its mediocre stats. D -> C+ Roly serves as a rapid spinner that Bramblin needs to think twice about spinblocking thanks to its access to Will-o-wisp. It's surprisingly bulky as well, and can set its own hazards if you want it to. Sorta passive and hates not having recovery but isnt a total sitting duck either.Notable Drops
B+ -> B- Cherubi is a great sun sweeper, but that's all I've seen it do since the tier dropped. Sun is also not the best archetype right now. I could easily see it rising back up, both under sun or potentially on its on merit, but it's a hard fit on the vast majority of teams because there's a lot of competition for grass types right now. B+ -> B- Impidimp is the best screen setter in DNU, but screens are certainly a struggle archetype, as there's not a lot of setup sweepers (and the few there are struggle into common speed control options). Screens aren't entirely unviable but they're far from consistent, and Impidimp's rank tanks as a result. C -> D Mareep struggles to see viability due to competition from other, better Electric types, which push it out of the metagame by doing everything Mareep wants to do better. If for some reason you don't want to run Wattrel, you're still better off running Tadbulb over it in 90% of cases, and Tadbulb is already a fairly niche mon. Comparatively, Mareep does better into Gossifleur, but is worse off in almost every other matchup.DNU UU Shifts
DNU tracks lower tiers, sorted by viability rank whenever a new Viability Rank drops, encompanying all Pokemon ranked at B- or below in the upper tier, minus any BL mons. Here are the tier shifts from this rank:
Rises to DNU OU:
Remains DNU UUBL:
Falls to DNU UU:
Last edited:
Do Not Use is suspect testing Diglett-Alola!
There are three ways to get suspect reqs:
- Top 8 in the DNU Kickoff tournament
- Win 5 games of DNU during the suspect period.
- If done on ladder, use an alt starting with the prefix DNUDA.
- If done in challenges, send all replays to jumpheart on Discord to confirm.
- A single opponent can only count for 2 games (this is to prevent two players playing 10 games and getting reqs off of each other).
- We are looking into the possibility of hosting suspect roomtours--if so, winners will automatically receive reqs.
Good luck going for reqs!
Great stabs, great speed tier, great power and surprisingly decent bulk when using eviolite sets despite its base 10 HP (0 Atk Nacli Earthquake vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Diglett-Alola: 146-174 (78.4 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), in my opinion Diglett-A is not only very very good but also completely broken. Steel-Ground is unresisted aside from Wattrel (which is walled by Diglett-A) and a couple other very niche/archetype specific mons (lotad, surskit and wimpod - wimpod isn't even a half of a switch in fwiw). Steel resists in general are very hard to come by in this tier and bulky mons that can try to wall it are very easy to overwhelm with hazard support (especially spikes or tspikes, like against Gossifleur or Wooper), and in a tier where keeping your side of the field clear can be difficult this is not a good dynamic.
Not gonna lie i don't think there is much to say. There is already so much threats you have to take account for in the tier, which makes teambuilding very difficult at times, and diglett-a unique offensive profile is an obvious contributor to that in my opinion. This should be an easy ban.
Time is up, the following users have reqs (if you got double pinged no you didnt):
announcement post coming soon when the results come in and also will be doing a post-tour breakdown including usage stats!
users pinged in discord not pinged here since im not badged lol
cyclonez_
R8
Alon Guy Person
M0onStarr
HolaSoyBalto
Scarf Kricketune
Ninja
Shay's Fate
SHIMA
Voting is in the DNU Discord in the #blind-voting-channel.
cyclonez_
R8
Alon Guy Person
M0onStarr
HolaSoyBalto
Scarf Kricketune
Ninja
Shay's Fate
SHIMA
Voting is in the DNU Discord in the #blind-voting-channel.
announcement post coming soon when the results come in and also will be doing a post-tour breakdown including usage stats!
Number of votes: 6/10
Ban: 6
DNB: 0
Ban Vote Percentage: 60%
Even if the remaining voters were to vote Do Not Ban, the ban votes would exceed the 51% threshold, thus Diglett-Alola is banned from Do Not Use!
not sure if it will be legal in SPL week 1 ask copen
Diglett-Alola will be banned in week 1!
Ban: 6
DNB: 0
Ban Vote Percentage: 60%
Even if the remaining voters were to vote Do Not Ban, the ban votes would exceed the 51% threshold, thus Diglett-Alola is banned from Do Not Use!
not sure if it will be legal in SPL week 1 ask copen
Diglett-Alola will be banned in week 1!
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Two new pieces of information that may be useful for the remainder of Solomod Premier League.
1. First off, the teambuilder on Pet Mods Dragon Heaven is now sorted by DNU tier! This helps you get to the "good" mons faster while having to trudge through less sludge like Milcery and Rellor. In addition, with DNU UU putting out its first viability rank this week, DNU RU now exists and is shown in the builder!still check the VR though, also snorunt is tiered OU since it didnt quickdrop to UU but is probably ass
2. Finally, presenting usage stats from the DNU kickoff! These have been ready for like uhhh a week now and I just forgor lol oops
Usage Stats
Leads
1. First off, the teambuilder on Pet Mods Dragon Heaven is now sorted by DNU tier! This helps you get to the "good" mons faster while having to trudge through less sludge like Milcery and Rellor. In addition, with DNU UU putting out its first viability rank this week, DNU RU now exists and is shown in the builder!
2. Finally, presenting usage stats from the DNU kickoff! These have been ready for like uhhh a week now and I just forgor lol oops
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Bramblin | 153 | 65.38% | 47.71% |
| 2 | Luvdisc | 118 | 50.43% | 46.61% |
| 3 | Diglett-Alola | 103 | 44.02% | 51.46% |
| 3 | Jigglypuff | 103 | 44.02% | 45.63% |
| 5 | Swinub | 80 | 34.19% | 52.50% |
| 6 | Nacli | 69 | 29.49% | 49.28% |
| 7 | Hatenna | 63 | 26.92% | 55.56% |
| 8 | Litwick | 62 | 26.50% | 53.23% |
| 9 | Venipede | 48 | 20.51% | 58.33% |
| 10 | Budew | 46 | 19.66% | 58.70% |
| 11 | Taillow | 40 | 17.09% | 55.00% |
| 12 | Yungoos | 31 | 13.25% | 38.71% |
| 13 | Gossifleur | 29 | 12.39% | 41.38% |
| 14 | Pikipek | 28 | 11.97% | 53.57% |
| 14 | Roggenrola | 28 | 11.97% | 39.29% |
| 16 | Arrokuda | 25 | 10.68% | 48.00% |
| 16 | Wattrel | 25 | 10.68% | 40.00% |
| 18 | Cottonee | 22 | 9.40% | 59.09% |
| 19 | Wooper | 21 | 8.97% | 61.90% |
| 20 | Bidoof | 20 | 8.55% | 65.00% |
| 21 | Rockruff | 19 | 8.12% | 47.37% |
| 21 | Nidoran-F | 19 | 8.12% | 47.37% |
| 23 | Rattata-Alola | 18 | 7.69% | 55.56% |
| 23 | Surskit | 18 | 7.69% | 55.56% |
| 25 | Marill | 17 | 7.26% | 64.71% |
| 26 | Cherubi | 15 | 6.41% | 53.33% |
| 27 | Nymble | 14 | 5.98% | 50.00% |
| 28 | Cleffa | 13 | 5.56% | 53.85% |
| 29 | Shedinja | 12 | 5.13% | 75.00% |
| 30 | Makuhita | 11 | 4.70% | 54.55% |
| 31 | Slugma | 10 | 4.27% | 20.00% |
| 32 | Wooper-Paldea | 9 | 3.85% | 55.56% |
| 32 | Kirlia | 9 | 3.85% | 44.44% |
| 32 | Zigzagoon-Galar | 9 | 3.85% | 33.33% |
| 35 | Rolycoly | 8 | 3.42% | 50.00% |
| 35 | Tarountula | 8 | 3.42% | 25.00% |
| 37 | Wooloo | 7 | 2.99% | 71.43% |
| 37 | Zubat | 7 | 2.99% | 28.57% |
| 39 | Meditite | 6 | 2.56% | 83.33% |
| 39 | Nidoran-M | 6 | 2.56% | 66.67% |
| 39 | Impidimp | 6 | 2.56% | 50.00% |
| 39 | Wimpod | 6 | 2.56% | 16.67% |
| 43 | Shinx | 5 | 2.14% | 60.00% |
| 44 | Happiny | 4 | 1.71% | 75.00% |
| 44 | Hoothoot | 4 | 1.71% | 50.00% |
| 44 | Tadbulb | 4 | 1.71% | 25.00% |
| 44 | Pichu | 4 | 1.71% | 25.00% |
| 44 | Lotad | 4 | 1.71% | 25.00% |
| 44 | Togepi | 4 | 1.71% | 25.00% |
| 50 | Pidove | 2 | 0.85% | 100.00% |
| 50 | Petilil | 2 | 0.85% | 50.00% |
| 50 | Fletchling | 2 | 0.85% | 0.00% |
| 50 | Skwovet | 2 | 0.85% | 0.00% |
| 50 | Dreepy | 2 | 0.85% | 0.00% |
| 55 | Patrat | 1 | 0.43% | 100.00% |
| 55 | Lechonk | 1 | 0.43% | 0.00% |
| 55 | Noibat | 1 | 0.43% | 0.00% |
| 55 | Mareep | 1 | 0.43% | 0.00% |
Code:
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Luvdisc | 32 | 13.68% | 56.25% |
| 2 | Swinub | 19 | 8.12% | 26.32% |
| 3 | Jigglypuff | 16 | 6.84% | 50.00% |
| 4 | Diglett-Alola | 15 | 6.41% | 60.00% |
| 4 | Venipede | 15 | 6.41% | 60.00% |
| 6 | Bramblin | 14 | 5.98% | 57.14% |
| 7 | Taillow | 11 | 4.70% | 63.64% |
| 7 | Surskit | 11 | 4.70% | 54.55% |
| 7 | Nacli | 11 | 4.70% | 36.36% |
| 10 | Nidoran-F | 10 | 4.27% | 50.00% |
| 11 | Roggenrola | 8 | 3.42% | 50.00% |
| 11 | Yungoos | 8 | 3.42% | 37.50% |
| 13 | Hatenna | 7 | 2.99% | 57.14% |
| 14 | Rockruff | 6 | 2.56% | 66.67% |
| 15 | Pikipek | 5 | 2.14% | 80.00% |
| 16 | Arrokuda | 4 | 1.71% | 25.00% |
| 16 | Tarountula | 4 | 1.71% | 0.00% |
| 18 | Bidoof | 3 | 1.28% | 100.00% |
| 18 | Wooper | 3 | 1.28% | 66.67% |
| 18 | Wattrel | 3 | 1.28% | 66.67% |
| 18 | Impidimp | 3 | 1.28% | 33.33% |
| 18 | Litwick | 3 | 1.28% | 33.33% |
| 18 | Budew | 3 | 1.28% | 33.33% |
| 24 | Marill | 2 | 0.85% | 100.00% |
| 24 | Makuhita | 2 | 0.85% | 100.00% |
| 24 | Cottonee | 2 | 0.85% | 50.00% |
| 24 | Gossifleur | 2 | 0.85% | 0.00% |
| 24 | Wimpod | 2 | 0.85% | 0.00% |
| 24 | Rattata-Alola | 2 | 0.85% | 0.00% |
| 30 | Togepi | 1 | 0.43% | 100.00% |
| 30 | Wooloo | 1 | 0.43% | 100.00% |
| 30 | Kirlia | 1 | 0.43% | 100.00% |
| 30 | Zubat | 1 | 0.43% | 0.00% |
| 30 | Happiny | 1 | 0.43% | 0.00% |
| 30 | Zigzagoon-Galar | 1 | 0.43% | 0.00% |
| 30 | Noibat | 1 | 0.43% | 0.00% |
| 30 | Wooper-Paldea | 1 | 0.43% | 0.00% |
Now that DigA is banned and Solomod PL is wrapping up, I’d like to give some thoughts on the meta.
Volt-turn
Voltturn is insanely good in this meta. Wattrel is a dominant force, and with scarf and good predicts it can volt switch or hurricane the entire meta to death. There are no bulky grounds, and no grounds that resist air slash at all.
Arrokuda is an incredible pair for wattrel. Banded flip turn hits very hard, and forces out a lot of wattrel’s main checks. It pushes through Nacli and Swinub very easily.
Grounds
With diglett alola gone, swinub and diglett have both seen a dramatic rise in viability. Swinub can come in on a scarf volt switch, and it’s stab combo hits the whole tier for at least neutral, most of the tier for super effective, besides a handful of frailer mons such as Surskuit. Diglett remains the fastest non-scarfer besides Luvdisc, and it’s largest downfall was the lack of the good Steel profile it’s alolan form had. Like swinub, its main idea is switching in on a choice locked electric move, however unlike swinub it has options to do with this turn. You can use banded pursuit to remove the wattrel threat, or swords dance to start up a sweep. It doesn’t loose too much from a lack of steel stab, but it makes it harder to deal with defensive fairies like puff.
Hot Take Time!!
My main hot take of the meta is mareep. Specs mareep with voltturn hits insanely hard. It gets power Gem, meaning it can break through Volt Absorb Wattrel, and can use HP Water or Grass to gather up damage on Diglett and Swinub. Mainly, it’s reasonably bulky without eviolite, and has a huge SpAtk stat and a very clickable volt switch. I could see Eviolite also gaining popularity as a slow bulky pivot.
I’m not ussually one to make this type of post, but I thought I’d make it cuz why not. I’m excited to see how the meta progresses, and I’ll hopefully see you on ladder! (Also come participate in the DNU player power rankings on our discord server!)
Volt-turn
Voltturn is insanely good in this meta. Wattrel is a dominant force, and with scarf and good predicts it can volt switch or hurricane the entire meta to death. There are no bulky grounds, and no grounds that resist air slash at all.
Arrokuda is an incredible pair for wattrel. Banded flip turn hits very hard, and forces out a lot of wattrel’s main checks. It pushes through Nacli and Swinub very easily.
Grounds
With diglett alola gone, swinub and diglett have both seen a dramatic rise in viability. Swinub can come in on a scarf volt switch, and it’s stab combo hits the whole tier for at least neutral, most of the tier for super effective, besides a handful of frailer mons such as Surskuit. Diglett remains the fastest non-scarfer besides Luvdisc, and it’s largest downfall was the lack of the good Steel profile it’s alolan form had. Like swinub, its main idea is switching in on a choice locked electric move, however unlike swinub it has options to do with this turn. You can use banded pursuit to remove the wattrel threat, or swords dance to start up a sweep. It doesn’t loose too much from a lack of steel stab, but it makes it harder to deal with defensive fairies like puff.
Hot Take Time!!
My main hot take of the meta is mareep. Specs mareep with voltturn hits insanely hard. It gets power Gem, meaning it can break through Volt Absorb Wattrel, and can use HP Water or Grass to gather up damage on Diglett and Swinub. Mainly, it’s reasonably bulky without eviolite, and has a huge SpAtk stat and a very clickable volt switch. I could see Eviolite also gaining popularity as a slow bulky pivot.
I’m not ussually one to make this type of post, but I thought I’d make it cuz why not. I’m excited to see how the meta progresses, and I’ll hopefully see you on ladder! (Also come participate in the DNU player power rankings on our discord server!)
New tiering survey as SPL winds down! Please fill it out to help us decide how to take the tier going forward :)
Two things to announce today!
First off, we have a couple new council members! M0onStarr and Zpice will be joining the council, replacing R8 and Woodchucknorris24 who are stepping down. Thanks to those two for all of their hard work.
Second off, as a result of the tiering survey, the council decided to vote on Wattrel. Wattrel received an alarming score of 4.25, while no other mon received above a 3.
Pro-ban arguments have a few arguments. First, Wattrel lacks many real switch ins. In DNU, there are not a lot of Ground types, so it can freely spam Volt Switch using a Choice Scarf for constant chip. There's been success using various VoltTurn teams, even during the Diglett-A meta, which was a decent Wattrel check. With Dig-A's ban, no Ground types resist Flying, so would-be Volt blockers such as Swinub can straight up faint from a single Air Slash after hazards. SpDef Wooper (either forme, but Paldea seems to be getting more attention in this role) is the only semi-splashable thing that has been found that can reliably come in on Wattrel, block Volt Switch, and not mind taking an Air Slash. However, one problem is that Wooper risks getting haxxed from Hurricane, which while considered somewhat suboptimal by many (it means your flying-type can't beat Bramblin) is a move you have to be aware of in this discussion. Another point against Wattrel is its lack of offensive checks. Its most common and probably best item is Choice Scarf, which, using Wattrel's very nice base speed, outpaced the entire unboosted meta and even limits the amount of opposing scarfers that could be run. Scarf Rattata (either forme, but Alola is slightly better in this role [but both are kinda bad]) is the only semi-common Scarf user who outspeeds. That leaves priority as the main way to revenge kill Wattrel. And even then, it can usually take a neutral priority hit. Swinub is the best offensive check for it thanks to Ice Shard, but Nub, while good, can be a fairly exploitable mon with proper teambuilding.
Anti-ban arguments include that Wattrel is the best speed control in the tier. It's a very nice mon to slot in as your "fuck them birds" slot to deal with Pikipek and Taillow, while also dealing with non-Rain Luvdisc and Surskit. Without Wattrel, these mons get a lot better. Similarly to Taillow, Wattrel takes Stealth Rock chip every time it switches in. This limits Scarf Wattrel teams to needing strong hazard removal or only have a few times to being Wattrel in. Boots Wattrel does exist, and is good, but lacks some of Scarf's appealing traits. In addition, Wattrel, as discussed above, does have some switch ins--SpDef Woopers can reliably tank Air Slashes even with a flinch involved. There are also some underexplored answers, such as other Electric-types. Only Tadbulb sees regular usage outside of Wattrel, so the argument is that Wattrel can't do much into Electric types. Finally, while not the strongest argument, some people have talked about adding new Pokémon to the tier to counter it instead of removing it, such as Blitzle. The argument is that Wattrel is probably too strong right now, but it's borderline--so to preserve it, add new counters instead of banning it to preserve its desirable traits.
The council votes are as follows. Wattrel needs 3 Ban votes to get banned:
As a result, Wattrel has been banned from Do Not Use. Tagging Yoshiblaze to implement!
First off, we have a couple new council members! M0onStarr and Zpice will be joining the council, replacing R8 and Woodchucknorris24 who are stepping down. Thanks to those two for all of their hard work.
Second off, as a result of the tiering survey, the council decided to vote on Wattrel. Wattrel received an alarming score of 4.25, while no other mon received above a 3.
Pro-ban arguments have a few arguments. First, Wattrel lacks many real switch ins. In DNU, there are not a lot of Ground types, so it can freely spam Volt Switch using a Choice Scarf for constant chip. There's been success using various VoltTurn teams, even during the Diglett-A meta, which was a decent Wattrel check. With Dig-A's ban, no Ground types resist Flying, so would-be Volt blockers such as Swinub can straight up faint from a single Air Slash after hazards. SpDef Wooper (either forme, but Paldea seems to be getting more attention in this role) is the only semi-splashable thing that has been found that can reliably come in on Wattrel, block Volt Switch, and not mind taking an Air Slash. However, one problem is that Wooper risks getting haxxed from Hurricane, which while considered somewhat suboptimal by many (it means your flying-type can't beat Bramblin) is a move you have to be aware of in this discussion. Another point against Wattrel is its lack of offensive checks. Its most common and probably best item is Choice Scarf, which, using Wattrel's very nice base speed, outpaced the entire unboosted meta and even limits the amount of opposing scarfers that could be run. Scarf Rattata (either forme, but Alola is slightly better in this role [but both are kinda bad]) is the only semi-common Scarf user who outspeeds. That leaves priority as the main way to revenge kill Wattrel. And even then, it can usually take a neutral priority hit. Swinub is the best offensive check for it thanks to Ice Shard, but Nub, while good, can be a fairly exploitable mon with proper teambuilding.
Anti-ban arguments include that Wattrel is the best speed control in the tier. It's a very nice mon to slot in as your "fuck them birds" slot to deal with Pikipek and Taillow, while also dealing with non-Rain Luvdisc and Surskit. Without Wattrel, these mons get a lot better. Similarly to Taillow, Wattrel takes Stealth Rock chip every time it switches in. This limits Scarf Wattrel teams to needing strong hazard removal or only have a few times to being Wattrel in. Boots Wattrel does exist, and is good, but lacks some of Scarf's appealing traits. In addition, Wattrel, as discussed above, does have some switch ins--SpDef Woopers can reliably tank Air Slashes even with a flinch involved. There are also some underexplored answers, such as other Electric-types. Only Tadbulb sees regular usage outside of Wattrel, so the argument is that Wattrel can't do much into Electric types. Finally, while not the strongest argument, some people have talked about adding new Pokémon to the tier to counter it instead of removing it, such as Blitzle. The argument is that Wattrel is probably too strong right now, but it's borderline--so to preserve it, add new counters instead of banning it to preserve its desirable traits.
The council votes are as follows. Wattrel needs 3 Ban votes to get banned:
| Wattrel vote | cyclonez_ | Alon Guy Person | gnsaigon | M0onStarr | Zpice | Outcome |
| Vote | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban | Do Not Ban | 4/5 -- BANNED |
As a result, Wattrel has been banned from Do Not Use. Tagging Yoshiblaze to implement!
Do Not Use is suspect testing Beldum!
Beldum is a strong attacker using its base 55 attack stat and has great bulk, along with featuring the coveted Steel typing that is currently not represented in DNU. However, it is held back by its famously poor movepool and low power STAB moves, relying on Iron Head and Zen Headbutt for its damage output. It was tested in DNU Legacy and deemed too much--with the raised power level, will it be enough to stick around?
There are three ways to get suspect reqs:
- Have won 2 games or more of Do Not Use in Solomod Premier League.
- JeoZ Zpice Alon Guy Person cyclonez_ I believe is the list--if I forgot anyone please let me know so I can adjust!
- Win 4 games of DNU with suspect rules during the suspect period. (This is just normal DNU with Beldum added via challenge command).
- Send all replays to jumpheart to confirm. A single opponent can only count for 2 games (this is to prevent two players playing 8 games and getting reqs off of each other)
Good luck going for reqs!
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In September 2022, we suspected tested Beldum to join DNU Legacy in Gen 8, where it failed to pass the suspect, getting 2 ban votes out of 8 total. 2 years later, a generation shift and a metagame reset later, Beldum has finally come home.
Beldum is now unbanned in Do Not Use!
Due to a few different compounding circumstances, it took a while for this vote to happen, but earlier today we finally voted on Beldum entering the tier. As of writing this, the voting has been unanimous, with 4 Unban votes to 0 Do Not Unban votes.
I'll do a write-up this weekend of Beldum's expected performance and roles in the tier, along with how the suspect went; but in a nutshell, it'll be a useful option due to its typing dealing with common defensive cores and tanking important hits, but not overbearing due to its linearity and exploitable weaknesses.
In addition to this unban, the council is hoping to have updated resources soon as we prepare to hopefully run a new tour soon.
Welcome to DNU, Beldum! It's been a long time coming.
New viability ranking just dropped! You can find the full list, including subrankings, in post #3, but I will go ahead and share the changes here, along with some thoughts I have on them. Shifts are packed into a spoiler for readability's sake.
Now, for some of my personal analysis:
There were significantly more rises than drops this slate, and I think there are a couple reasons as to why. First off, I think the bans of Diglett-Alola and Wattrel have given the numerous Pokemon in that A through B+ range more room to breath, as a lot of them were pretty held back by those two in the metagame.
Budew rose to become the third-highest rated mon in the format, and honestly, I can't argue with it. It's got surprising bulk even on itemless sets, it notably has a great matchup into Bramblin, it packs a punch, and has very useful utility in Spikes and status spreading. This mon has a lot of room to grow and honestly I could see it overtaking Bramblin and Nacli if future metagame shifts are kind to it.
Honestly, I don't know why this mon dropped from A- in the first place. It's always been kinda stupid lol. It's a perfect hazard lead that can vomit up Spikes and Toxic Spikes then be super annoying with Poison Jab being kinda strong and poisoning foes and Endeavor to bring foes down to 1 HP if you're running sash. Even against Bramblin-Hatenna builds, which are the best builds for keeping hazards off, Venipede can usually get at least 1 layer up at some point in the match since if it stays alive it can usually come back for more.
This mon is a bit silly. One person on the council thinks it is straight up broken and honestly, I get where they are coming from. It has the freest pivot move on earth with Flip Turn which hurts like a truck, and Liquidation can clean weakened teams very easily. With hazards up it does such a good job at wearing down defensive cores and ultimately breaking through. Your best option is to try and revenge kill it but that's easier said than done. Better bring a Pursuit trapper.
This Pokemon got a lot of discussion on the council, with someone placing it as high as A+ but as low as B-. Ultimately, we were able to compromise on A-. It's a polarizing Pokemon that has some super big strengths, but some very exploitable weaknesses that leave it in an awkward spot to use. I personally ranked it A-, so I'm happy with it. Some builds just cannot break Resttalk Marill lategame, while others have 5 different ways to deal with it. Hazards also force Marill to Rest very early which leaves it more of a sitting duck.
This mon is genuinely very good and I am glad it got the respect it deserves. SpDef sets are very splashable and offer a lot to a team, compressing checks to Budew, Luvdisc, and even Arrokuda (if it's not running Psychic Fangs) thanks to useful defensive typing and Water Absorb. It also gets Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock for hazard goodness, along with great STAB options in Earthquake, Poison Jab, etc. PhysDef and MixedDef are probably also usable for certain matchups, I personally haven't experimented much with these so I don't feel comfortable saying more.
Jooper is still, like, usable, but it suffers from a pretty abysmal matchup spread at the top. Its main role before was serving as the best Diglett-Alola check, which is obviously no longer needed. It's fine, and PhysDef is still genuinely worth running as a check to Curse Nacli, setup Bidoof, and Rockruff, but it's definitely not as needed as it used to be.
With Wattrel's ban, people realized just how good Volt Switch is in a tier with very few Ground-types. While none of them fill the exact niche Wattrel does, they've all picked up in viability with the ban of the piss bird. Personally I like Tadbulb the most of these, and think it's the Pokemon best suited to run Scarf Volt Switch, but Mareep genuinely has merit now as a hard-hitting Choice Specs user. I'm not going to pretend I know why the dog is ranked.
It's not good, but it has its uses. It gets Spikes and Switcheroo, which is unique to it in the tier (and is in fact quite a rare combo in Pokemon in general). The most success people have had with it seem to be Choice Band sets which hit fairly hard (Snorunt has the same Attack stat as Swinub!). The idea is you hit hard in good matchups, if they have a good Ice resist (such as Marill) you set Spikes on the switch, and eventually try to neuter a defensive tool by tricking them your Band. It's gimmicky, but it is a valid niche that deserves ranking.
The other new addition, though, is probably unranked garbage. I ultimately ranked it D, it's possibly usable as a physical Sun sweeper, but I wouldn't expect it to be ranked next slate. There's quite a few guys in C- this slate and I think it's the worst of the 6 by a considerable margin--I've at least considered using the other 5 on serious teams.
Finally, after all that, the DNU UU shifts this slate:
has risen from UU to OU
has risen from UUBL to OU
has fallen from OU to UU
has fallen from OU to UU
has fallen from OU to UUBL (they should retest it though fr fr)
Feel free to ask any questions either here or in the Discord!
New
Snorunt went from NEW to C
Capsakid went from NEW to C-
Budew rose from A+ to S-
Hatenna rose from A to A+
Shedinja rose from A- to A
Venipede rose from B+ to A
Arrokuda rose from B+ to A
Rattata-Alolan rose from B+ to A-
Yungoos rose from B+ to A-
Cottonee rose from B+ to A-
Marill rose from B+ to A-
Swinub rose from B+ to A-
Tadbulb rose from B to B+
Surskit rose from B to B+
Wooper-Paldean rose from C+ to B+
Cherubi rose from B- to B
Pidove rose from C to C+
Mareep rose from D to C
Tarountula rose from D to C
Togepi rose from D to C-
Diglett rose from D to C-
Skitty rose from D to C-
Pichu rose from UR to D
Starly rose from UR to D
Yamper rose from UR to D
Snorunt went from NEW to C Capsakid went from NEW to C- Budew rose from A+ to S- Hatenna rose from A to A+ Shedinja rose from A- to A Venipede rose from B+ to A Arrokuda rose from B+ to A Rattata-Alolan rose from B+ to A- Yungoos rose from B+ to A- Cottonee rose from B+ to A- Marill rose from B+ to A- Swinub rose from B+ to A- Tadbulb rose from B to B+ Surskit rose from B to B+ Wooper-Paldean rose from C+ to B+ Cherubi rose from B- to B Pidove rose from C to C+ Mareep rose from D to C Tarountula rose from D to C Togepi rose from D to C- Diglett rose from D to C- Skitty rose from D to C- Pichu rose from UR to D Starly rose from UR to D Yamper rose from UR to DFalls
Bramblin fell from S to S-
Luvdisc fell from S- to A+
Roggenrola fell from S- to A+
Cleffa fell from A to A-
Hoothoot fell from A- to B+
Wooper fell from A- to B
Wooloo fell from B to B-
Happiny fell from B to B-
Petilil fell from C+ to C
Fomantis fell from C to C-
Smoliv fell from D to UR
Bramblin fell from S to S- Luvdisc fell from S- to A+ Roggenrola fell from S- to A+ Cleffa fell from A to A- Hoothoot fell from A- to B+ Wooper fell from A- to B Wooloo fell from B to B- Happiny fell from B to B- Petilil fell from C+ to C Fomantis fell from C to C- Smoliv fell from D to URNow, for some of my personal analysis:
There were significantly more rises than drops this slate, and I think there are a couple reasons as to why. First off, I think the bans of Diglett-Alola and Wattrel have given the numerous Pokemon in that A through B+ range more room to breath, as a lot of them were pretty held back by those two in the metagame. Second of all, the new council may be affecting things. I have always run some analytics on votes, one of them I look at a lot is the average ranking of each Pokemon per person. Basically, an optimism value, to see how optimistic on the average Pokemon each council member is, as it can help put some outlier votes more in perspective. For every incarnation of the modern DNU viability rankings (even dating back to when they were lists), I have consistently been the most optimistic member of the council. Since our last VR, more than half the council has turned over, and now I was actually the second most conservative member. As such, I believe that the new council members being more optimistic than I am helped raised the overall placement of several mons.
Now, with that said, I do think it's interesting that both Zpice and M0onStarr, the two new council members more optimistic than I am, both had scores that are less than my voting slate from the last VR. Effectively, their average vote this slate was higher than mine this slate, but lower than mine last slate--so perhaps it's possible the first reason I gave (Dig-A and Wattrel bans) were more important, and I have just naturally drifted lower. Perhaps my philosphy around viability rankings has changed. I mean, last VR, I remember genuinely considering Applin for D because it kinda beats, Dig-A, when I really didn't rank any shitmons this slate. Just interesting to think about.
Now, with that said, I do think it's interesting that both Zpice and M0onStarr, the two new council members more optimistic than I am, both had scores that are less than my voting slate from the last VR. Effectively, their average vote this slate was higher than mine this slate, but lower than mine last slate--so perhaps it's possible the first reason I gave (Dig-A and Wattrel bans) were more important, and I have just naturally drifted lower. Perhaps my philosphy around viability rankings has changed. I mean, last VR, I remember genuinely considering Applin for D because it kinda beats, Dig-A, when I really didn't rank any shitmons this slate. Just interesting to think about.
Budew rose to become the third-highest rated mon in the format, and honestly, I can't argue with it. It's got surprising bulk even on itemless sets, it notably has a great matchup into Bramblin, it packs a punch, and has very useful utility in Spikes and status spreading. This mon has a lot of room to grow and honestly I could see it overtaking Bramblin and Nacli if future metagame shifts are kind to it. Honestly, I don't know why this mon dropped from A- in the first place. It's always been kinda stupid lol. It's a perfect hazard lead that can vomit up Spikes and Toxic Spikes then be super annoying with Poison Jab being kinda strong and poisoning foes and Endeavor to bring foes down to 1 HP if you're running sash. Even against Bramblin-Hatenna builds, which are the best builds for keeping hazards off, Venipede can usually get at least 1 layer up at some point in the match since if it stays alive it can usually come back for more. This mon is a bit silly. One person on the council thinks it is straight up broken and honestly, I get where they are coming from. It has the freest pivot move on earth with Flip Turn which hurts like a truck, and Liquidation can clean weakened teams very easily. With hazards up it does such a good job at wearing down defensive cores and ultimately breaking through. Your best option is to try and revenge kill it but that's easier said than done. Better bring a Pursuit trapper. This Pokemon got a lot of discussion on the council, with someone placing it as high as A+ but as low as B-. Ultimately, we were able to compromise on A-. It's a polarizing Pokemon that has some super big strengths, but some very exploitable weaknesses that leave it in an awkward spot to use. I personally ranked it A-, so I'm happy with it. Some builds just cannot break Resttalk Marill lategame, while others have 5 different ways to deal with it. Hazards also force Marill to Rest very early which leaves it more of a sitting duck. This mon is genuinely very good and I am glad it got the respect it deserves. SpDef sets are very splashable and offer a lot to a team, compressing checks to Budew, Luvdisc, and even Arrokuda (if it's not running Psychic Fangs) thanks to useful defensive typing and Water Absorb. It also gets Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock for hazard goodness, along with great STAB options in Earthquake, Poison Jab, etc. PhysDef and MixedDef are probably also usable for certain matchups, I personally haven't experimented much with these so I don't feel comfortable saying more. Jooper is still, like, usable, but it suffers from a pretty abysmal matchup spread at the top. Its main role before was serving as the best Diglett-Alola check, which is obviously no longer needed. It's fine, and PhysDef is still genuinely worth running as a check to Curse Nacli, setup Bidoof, and Rockruff, but it's definitely not as needed as it used to be. With Wattrel's ban, people realized just how good Volt Switch is in a tier with very few Ground-types. While none of them fill the exact niche Wattrel does, they've all picked up in viability with the ban of the piss bird. Personally I like Tadbulb the most of these, and think it's the Pokemon best suited to run Scarf Volt Switch, but Mareep genuinely has merit now as a hard-hitting Choice Specs user. I'm not going to pretend I know why the dog is ranked. It's not good, but it has its uses. It gets Spikes and Switcheroo, which is unique to it in the tier (and is in fact quite a rare combo in Pokemon in general). The most success people have had with it seem to be Choice Band sets which hit fairly hard (Snorunt has the same Attack stat as Swinub!). The idea is you hit hard in good matchups, if they have a good Ice resist (such as Marill) you set Spikes on the switch, and eventually try to neuter a defensive tool by tricking them your Band. It's gimmicky, but it is a valid niche that deserves ranking. The other new addition, though, is probably unranked garbage. I ultimately ranked it D, it's possibly usable as a physical Sun sweeper, but I wouldn't expect it to be ranked next slate. There's quite a few guys in C- this slate and I think it's the worst of the 6 by a considerable margin--I've at least considered using the other 5 on serious teams.Finally, after all that, the DNU UU shifts this slate:
has risen from UU to OU has risen from UUBL to OU has fallen from OU to UU has fallen from OU to UU has fallen from OU to UUBL (they should retest it though fr fr)Feel free to ask any questions either here or in the Discord!
Today Do Not Use published 5 new sample teams that the council has put together to better reflect the current metagame! You can find them in post 2. While not every good Pokemon is represented, the biggest exclusions being Budew and Hatenna, each of those five teams is in my opinion very viable in the metagame and worth checking out. I hope you enjoy them and that the new Venipede HO doesn't dominate the next tournament!
In addition, keep an eye out for an upcoming suspect test and the upcoming fall seasonal!
In addition, keep an eye out for an upcoming suspect test and the upcoming fall seasonal!
Do Not Use is suspect testing Swablu!
As we prepare to open our Fall Seasonal signups in the next week or two, we wanted to get in one more suspect. It's finally time to test Swablu!
Suspect Reasoning
Swablu serves as a new addition to our hazard removal lineup, which is currently limited to Bramblin, Hatenna, and a couple random birds. Gossifleur's historic fall off (seriously, B tier next VR is possible) pushed the metagame harshly towards an offensive direction. Introducing Swablu to the tier opens a new Pokemon for more balance and defensive teams to consider thanks to its impressive bulk, improved by Natural Cure. It doesn't push any Pokemon out of the metagame entirely, as it doesn't have Pidove's ability to pass Wishes or any real offensive potential unlike Hoothoot. With that said, there are concerns that Swablu is just too fat, especially with access to potentially obnoxious moves like Toxic and Cotton Guard. Only one way to make sure!
Suspect Information
There are two ways to qualify for this suspect test.
1. Win 4 games during the suspect period, sending replays to cyclonez_ (jumpheart on Discord) to confirm.
2. Win a "suspect roomtour", which will be held on Pokemon Showdown over the course of the suspect period. There will be 3 tours. All times are GMT-5.
Friday, October 4th, 4:00PM
Saturday, October 5th, 11:00AM
Saturday, October 5th. 7:00PM
(A single opponent can only count for up to 2 wins if qualifying via method 1.)
The suspect will last for about a week (shorter than last time!) and voting will last for two days. Besides that: all the same since last time! Hope to see you there!
As we prepare for the suspect tours this weekend (first one is tomorrow!), thought I'd share a couple Swablu teams I've built, as I already achieved reqs. Feel free to use these in the tours if you want to try Swablu! Not sure how good they are tbh but I have wins with all of them so they're at least workable. They're ordered in terms of how confident I am in them
Swablu-Swinub Balance
Scarf Tadbulb Swablu Balance
Swablu Fat Balance (a version that swaps Bidoof to something like Taillow would work as well as this doesn't have any fast mons)
PHerb Bramblin BO (this one is a lot more experimental as I tried building with Zpice's Power Herb Bramblin tech, it's interesting but I'm not sure on this one as a whole)
In addition, the 5 new sample teams are all available in post #2 for you to look at. All 5 are very good teams and at least 3 of them have gotten wins in the test so they should all hold up fine, if not very well still, despite the emphasis on our cloudy friend.
Swablu-Swinub Balance Scarf Tadbulb Swablu Balance Swablu Fat Balance (a version that swaps Bidoof to something like Taillow would work as well as this doesn't have any fast mons) PHerb Bramblin BO (this one is a lot more experimental as I tried building with Zpice's Power Herb Bramblin tech, it's interesting but I'm not sure on this one as a whole)In addition, the 5 new sample teams are all available in post #2 for you to look at. All 5 are very good teams and at least 3 of them have gotten wins in the test so they should all hold up fine, if not very well still, despite the emphasis on our cloudy friend.
TBH I don't feel that Swablu is too much for the metagame, every single team has Rock-types that easily check it, and it's independently of it as there's a ton of other Flying-types in the tier that are checked as well, out of the lack of Steel-types in the tier. Additionally its defensive utility isn't that good when it has to pick between boots and Eviolite, I wouldn't vote for a ban TBH.
Swablu is too much for the metagame, every single team has Rock-types that easily check it, and it's independently of it as there's a ton of other Flying-types in the tier that are checked as well, out of the lack of Steel-types in the tier. Additionally its defensive utility isn't that good when it has to pick between boots and Eviolite, I wouldn't vote for a ban TBH.
Gonna do a brief (edit: lol) write-up on the Swablu suspect test and leave my personal thoughts. This is the first suspect in a while (May 2023--I looked!) where there has been a good amount of uncertainty in the community as to whether or not it will be freed, and I understand the concerns. I'm gonna analyze the pros and cons and ultimate share how I will vote tomorrow.
Pros
1. Swablu is a fantastic Defogger. I don't know if it is straight up the best removal in the tier, as Bramblin and Hatenna are tough competition for that role, but it is a great Pokemon for balance and stall teams as their hazard removal of choice, thanks to its massive bulk and Natural Cure.
2. It's reasonable to check defensively. While Toxic is annoying, something I will talk about in the Cons section, it is otherwise quite a passive Pokemon if it is not invested offensively. It reminds me of a Pokemon like Moltres in OU-level tiers, in that you can't expect a Pokemon to take a super-effective hit from Swablu, but bulkier neutral hits can reasonably tank it, and its resisted hits absolutely doink. Nacli, already a common Pokemon on bulky offense, balance, and stall (borderline mandatory on the latter two), completely shuts it down thanks to Purifying Salt. Even if Swablu is running offensive investment, most of its checks still work, and this in turn makes it easier to check offensively.
3. It serves as a counter and/or check to some of the more annoying Pokemon to deal with in the teambuilder, most infamously Bramblin, who can't really do anything into Swablu. This was already the case, as shown by defensive Hoothoot and Pidove having success before this suspect, but Swablu takes this dynamic further and works as a fairly splashable defensive check. It also helps into Shedinja, Budew, and sort of Arrokuda (this one is only a soft check, not a full counter).
4. It's fairly predictable. It doesn't have a lot of movepool depth. Outside of the obvious STAB / Toxic / recovery / Defog set, it can run... Moonblast to fish for SpA drops? Perish Song to force switches? Steel Wing to hit Nacli? (Don't run this.) The only other move it gets besides these that it can realistically run (unless someone has a fire tech option in the back they didn't show off) is Cotton Guard, which... yeah, we need to talk about that. Besides dropping Defog for Cotton Guard, though, it's minor tech options at best, and literally no other options at worst.
Cons
1. Swablu is... really fat. It is hands down the bulkiest Pokemon in the metagame, except for possibly Nacli, but with a better defensive typing overall. Rock is useful here to check Normal- and Flying-types, but has exploitable weaknesses. A bulky Normal/Flying, on the other hand, really only has to worry about Tadbulb, Swinub, and the three viable Rock-type Pokemon ( ). While this isn't no weaknesses, it's enough to raise eyebrows, especially considering that Tadbulb and Nacli can't actually break through unless they're invested offensively, and all but Tadbulb can get blocked by Cotton Guard. Let's talk about that.
2. Cotton Guard is a move that turns Swablu from a tank to basically unkillable. It improves its already immense bulk by a long margin, and allows it to effectively ignore its weaknesses to Swinub and the Rocks. When paired with Toxic, this allows it to sit on the field and put opposing Pokemon on a timer. This isn't inherently a bad thing, but it does make it a bit of a nightmare to take down when you remember the list of Pokemon who can hit it on the special side for super effective STAB: Tadbulb. It's just Tadbulb. Unless you're running Specs Ice Beam Snorunt, I guess. You do you. It's not an unbeatable set--Resttalkers can ignore Toxic, Nacli doesn't care about Toxic, Magic Guard Cleffa... I'm sure there's more, too, that don't mind this combo that weren't really used (
Nidoran-F is the one I eye as I say that), but it limits offensive counterplay and turns it into an annoying wall vs. wall matchup a good amount of the time, which leads into the next point.
3. Swablu, in its relatively short life in the tier, has already caused multiple end-game PP stall battles, in instances where Swablu couldn't Toxic the opponent while none of their Pokemon could actually break through Swablu. While PP stall isn't necessarily a problem and is a valid win condition, I do want to bring it to light here that a lot of teams brought to tournament straight up cannot break Swablu if they lose their offensive attackers, while also not being a set-up wincon in the traditional sense such as other Curse users or ID-Body Press Pokemon. I think this point is overblown and the metagame will adapt to this, but it's worth mentioning.
4. One final con I will bring up here is that Swablu may contribute to centralization, specifically around Nacli. I mentioned earlier that Nacli is borderline mandatory already--with Swablu in the tier, I think it straight up becomes a mandatory Pokemon on balance and stall teams. This suspect really brought on a Nacli renaissance, with more Curse Naclis winning battles than at any other point. It's already in contention for the best Pokemon in the tier, and with Swablu in the picture, it is straight up #1, no doubt in my mind as I say that. And with an emphasis on Specially-invested Naclis, a majority of them running curse... this is a Pokemon that is a very strong win condition that you need to play carefully around. Which means you have to prep for it more. You already should be prepping for it, not prepping for Curse Nacli is possibly the most common mistake I see in teambuilding, but with Swablu in the picture it's going to be extremely common, as it punishes Swablu very hard. I don't think Curse Nacli is broken but in a Swablu meta I could see it developing that way.
My Vote
I originally started this suspect test firmly in the "unban" camp, straight up telling someone in DMs that it is "so good for the meta" and "fixes all of my problems with it". While I still think that it solves a lot of my current problems with the metagame (Bramblin checking and Defogging being the biggest things in this regard), I did sour on it as the suspect test progressed, and a I wrote this I realized that I was a lot more on the fence than I originally thought.
Now, with that said: I have enjoyed playing DNU more during this suspect test than I did any time since the Wattrel ban, and I think that Swablu overall eases up the strain on the teambuilder that the tier sometimes struggles with. As such, despite my reservations, I will be voting to unban Swablu from DNU. However, if it doesn't end up joining the tier, I'm not going to lose sleep over it, and completely understand the people who will be voting to keep it banned. Either way, I'm excited to see how the tier develops going forward! Voting starts tomorrow! See all y'all there
Swablu suspect test and leave my personal thoughts. This is the first suspect in a while (May 2023--I looked!) where there has been a good amount of uncertainty in the community as to whether or not it will be freed, and I understand the concerns. I'm gonna analyze the pros and cons and ultimate share how I will vote tomorrow.Pros
1. Swablu is a fantastic Defogger. I don't know if it is straight up the best removal in the tier, as
Bramblin and Hatenna are tough competition for that role, but it is a great Pokemon for balance and stall teams as their hazard removal of choice, thanks to its massive bulk and Natural Cure.2. It's reasonable to check defensively. While Toxic is annoying, something I will talk about in the Cons section, it is otherwise quite a passive Pokemon if it is not invested offensively. It reminds me of a Pokemon like Moltres in OU-level tiers, in that you can't expect a Pokemon to take a super-effective hit from Swablu, but bulkier neutral hits can reasonably tank it, and its resisted hits absolutely doink.
Nacli, already a common Pokemon on bulky offense, balance, and stall (borderline mandatory on the latter two), completely shuts it down thanks to Purifying Salt. Even if Swablu is running offensive investment, most of its checks still work, and this in turn makes it easier to check offensively.3. It serves as a counter and/or check to some of the more annoying Pokemon to deal with in the teambuilder, most infamously Bramblin, who can't really do anything into Swablu. This was already the case, as shown by defensive
Hoothoot and Pidove having success before this suspect, but Swablu takes this dynamic further and works as a fairly splashable defensive check. It also helps into Shedinja, Budew, and sort of Arrokuda (this one is only a soft check, not a full counter).4. It's fairly predictable. It doesn't have a lot of movepool depth. Outside of the obvious STAB / Toxic / recovery / Defog set, it can run... Moonblast to fish for SpA drops? Perish Song to force switches? Steel Wing to hit Nacli? (Don't run this.) The only other move it gets besides these that it can realistically run (unless someone has a fire tech option in the back they didn't show off) is Cotton Guard, which... yeah, we need to talk about that. Besides dropping Defog for Cotton Guard, though, it's minor tech options at best, and literally no other options at worst.
Cons
1. Swablu is... really fat. It is hands down the bulkiest Pokemon in the metagame, except for possibly Nacli, but with a better defensive typing overall. Rock is useful here to check Normal- and Flying-types, but has exploitable weaknesses. A bulky Normal/Flying, on the other hand, really only has to worry about
Tadbulb, Swinub, and the three viable Rock-type Pokemon ( ). While this isn't no weaknesses, it's enough to raise eyebrows, especially considering that Tadbulb and Nacli can't actually break through unless they're invested offensively, and all but Tadbulb can get blocked by Cotton Guard. Let's talk about that.2. Cotton Guard is a move that turns Swablu from a tank to basically unkillable. It improves its already immense bulk by a long margin, and allows it to effectively ignore its weaknesses to Swinub and the Rocks. When paired with Toxic, this allows it to sit on the field and put opposing Pokemon on a timer. This isn't inherently a bad thing, but it does make it a bit of a nightmare to take down when you remember the list of Pokemon who can hit it on the special side for super effective STAB: Tadbulb. It's just Tadbulb. Unless you're running Specs Ice Beam
Snorunt, I guess. You do you. It's not an unbeatable set--Resttalkers can ignore Toxic, Nacli doesn't care about Toxic, Magic Guard Cleffa... I'm sure there's more, too, that don't mind this combo that weren't really used ( Nidoran-F is the one I eye as I say that), but it limits offensive counterplay and turns it into an annoying wall vs. wall matchup a good amount of the time, which leads into the next point.3. Swablu, in its relatively short life in the tier, has already caused multiple end-game PP stall battles, in instances where Swablu couldn't Toxic the opponent while none of their Pokemon could actually break through Swablu. While PP stall isn't necessarily a problem and is a valid win condition, I do want to bring it to light here that a lot of teams brought to tournament straight up cannot break Swablu if they lose their offensive attackers, while also not being a set-up wincon in the traditional sense such as other Curse users or ID-Body Press Pokemon. I think this point is overblown and the metagame will adapt to this, but it's worth mentioning.
4. One final con I will bring up here is that Swablu may contribute to centralization, specifically around Nacli. I mentioned earlier that Nacli is borderline mandatory already--with Swablu in the tier, I think it straight up becomes a mandatory Pokemon on balance and stall teams. This suspect really brought on a Nacli renaissance, with more Curse Naclis winning battles than at any other point. It's already in contention for the best Pokemon in the tier, and with Swablu in the picture, it is straight up #1, no doubt in my mind as I say that. And with an emphasis on Specially-invested Naclis, a majority of them running curse... this is a Pokemon that is a very strong win condition that you need to play carefully around. Which means you have to prep for it more. You already should be prepping for it, not prepping for Curse Nacli is possibly the most common mistake I see in teambuilding, but with Swablu in the picture it's going to be extremely common, as it punishes Swablu very hard. I don't think Curse Nacli is broken but in a Swablu meta I could see it developing that way.
My Vote
I originally started this suspect test firmly in the "unban" camp, straight up telling someone in DMs that it is "so good for the meta" and "fixes all of my problems with it". While I still think that it solves a lot of my current problems with the metagame (Bramblin checking and Defogging being the biggest things in this regard), I did sour on it as the suspect test progressed, and a I wrote this I realized that I was a lot more on the fence than I originally thought.
Now, with that said: I have enjoyed playing DNU more during this suspect test than I did any time since the Wattrel ban, and I think that Swablu overall eases up the strain on the teambuilder that the tier sometimes struggles with. As such, despite my reservations, I will be voting to unban Swablu from DNU. However, if it doesn't end up joining the tier, I'm not going to lose sleep over it, and completely understand the people who will be voting to keep it banned. Either way, I'm excited to see how the tier develops going forward! Voting starts tomorrow! See all y'all there
Swablu unbanned via suspect test!
As we get ready for the Fall Seasonal that starts next week, I wanted to add a new resource to help people teambuild. As such, I've built a collection of sample sets which have been added to post 2 in this thread! There are 86 sample sets in total, ranging from tier staples such as Choice Band Arrokuda, to more experimental takes on common mons such as Cotton Guard Cottonee, to niche picks in general such as Starly and Zubat. Hope you enjoy and I hope this gets good use!
For ease of access, I'll put them here too:
https://pokepast.es/70f521a5cf2cd8fb A-J
https://pokepast.es/2f7a04e6fc7779b2 K-R
https://pokepast.es/64304eed8521cb46 R-Z
https://pokepast.es/d6332214c42bc935 Niche picks (B- or lower in the VR)
For ease of access, I'll put them here too:
https://pokepast.es/70f521a5cf2cd8fb A-J
https://pokepast.es/2f7a04e6fc7779b2 K-R
https://pokepast.es/64304eed8521cb46 R-Z
https://pokepast.es/d6332214c42bc935 Niche picks (B- or lower in the VR)
With the Fall Seasonal starting on Monday, the council wanted to take a look at the metagame and see if there were any things we wanted to clean up beforehand. We did a survey via our Discord, and Shedinja scored relatively high, but not enough to quickban; so expect a Shedinja suspect in the relative future, unless it really thuds during the first week or two of the tournament. There is something that came up after, however: Cute Charm!
Why Cute Charm?
For those who haven't played the tier, this may seem like a bizarre choice for tiering action. Even if you have played, but only a couple games, you may not have had a negative experience. For all of the tier mains, however, everyone can remember That One Game, where they lost because Jigglypuff proc'd Cute Charm on your win condition. Having a 50% chance to immobilize your Pokemon is an awful mechanic, and it is further labeled as uncompetitive via the gender mechanic, where all of your contact Pokemon have only a 50% chance to actually be hit by this, depending on if you won or lost the pre-game gender RNG. In addition, its values are skewed to be more annoying than Paralysis and Confusion. It has a 50% chance to eat your turn, higher than those two, and while you can switch out of it, you cannot break through via RNG like you can with Confusion. If you're infatuated, you can't stall it out--you have to either switch out or remove the opposing Pokemon.
When Jigglypuff is one of the bulkiest Pokemon in the tier, that's easier said than done. Jigglypuff, the main Pokemon using Cute Charm, feasts on free turns, able to pass huge Wishes to teammates, spread Toxic, remove items, or just deal big damage via Seismic Toss. It turns fairly reliable ways to break through, such as Arrokuda's Liquidation, into very risky options that may lose you your win condition, and thus the game.
While conversations over the ability have just restarted recently, this has been a recurring thing that has repeatedly come up during DNU's lifetime. R8 included a couple paragraphs about it in their post in February, and since then it comes up as controversial every time the tier has a spike in activity, without fail.
So why not ban Jigglypuff?
Simply put, Jigglypuff is not a problematic Pokemon outside of Cute Charm. Unlike other RNG-fish Pokemon, such as OU Moltres, which is picked in decent part because of its ability to spread burns, Jigglypuff isn't being used for Cute Charm. Cute Charm is simply its default best ability on 99% of sets, because its other options, Competitive and Friend Guard, are useless. For the standard Wish defensive sets, Cute Charm is the only ability that actually does something, so it's the default. Competitive can be used, but it's only useful on the rare set-up Jigglypuff or the once-in-a-blue-moon defensive set running a special move. As such, Cute Charm isn't seen as an important part of Jigglypuff's gameplan. It's like if Toxapex had a 15% to confuse you when you hit it with a contact move as an innate trait. You're rarely if ever going to pick Toxapex for this. It's going to do the same things it always did. Neither are you going to rely on it to win a game off of confusion hax, unless it's literally your only option. However, it comes up enough to be incredibly obnoxious and ruin what would be a good and competitive match.
As such, Jigglypuff will be entirely unimpacted by this change. You can just swap all of your Jigglypuffs to Competitive, with no other changes, and perform the same in the majority of battles, and you most likely won't even notice this tiering action should it go through--it'll be as if Cute Charm just didn't activate 100% of the time going forward.
Why keep Cute Charm?
Normally, for tiering action posts like this, I try to put both viewpoints, even if I disagree with one, to help keep it a fairly objective look at things. For this one, though, I really have no defense of Cute Charm, besides the fact that it's just not that common to affect games. Sure, games may have a less than 10% chance of Cute Charm making a real impact... but for those games that do, it is clearly an undebatably uncompetitive by nature of being a pure RNG fish ability. There is could be an argument to be made that banning Cute Charm is in violation of tiering policy, and though I am not an expert, I believe it falls under nature of Uncompetitive.
As such, the council made a decision to look at Cute Charm to ban before the start of the tournament, and have reached a decision.
Zpice has not yet voted, but his vote will not change the outcome, and as such, Cute Charm is now banned from Do Not Use!
Cute Charm!Why Cute Charm?
For those who haven't played the tier, this may seem like a bizarre choice for tiering action. Even if you have played, but only a couple games, you may not have had a negative experience. For all of the tier mains, however, everyone can remember That One Game, where they lost because Jigglypuff proc'd Cute Charm on your win condition. Having a 50% chance to immobilize your Pokemon is an awful mechanic, and it is further labeled as uncompetitive via the gender mechanic, where all of your contact Pokemon have only a 50% chance to actually be hit by this, depending on if you won or lost the pre-game gender RNG. In addition, its values are skewed to be more annoying than Paralysis and Confusion. It has a 50% chance to eat your turn, higher than those two, and while you can switch out of it, you cannot break through via RNG like you can with Confusion. If you're infatuated, you can't stall it out--you have to either switch out or remove the opposing Pokemon.
When Jigglypuff is one of the bulkiest Pokemon in the tier, that's easier said than done. Jigglypuff, the main Pokemon using Cute Charm, feasts on free turns, able to pass huge Wishes to teammates, spread Toxic, remove items, or just deal big damage via Seismic Toss. It turns fairly reliable ways to break through, such as Arrokuda's Liquidation, into very risky options that may lose you your win condition, and thus the game.
While conversations over the ability have just restarted recently, this has been a recurring thing that has repeatedly come up during DNU's lifetime. R8 included a couple paragraphs about it in their post in February, and since then it comes up as controversial every time the tier has a spike in activity, without fail.
So why not ban Jigglypuff?
Simply put, Jigglypuff is not a problematic Pokemon outside of Cute Charm. Unlike other RNG-fish Pokemon, such as OU Moltres, which is picked in decent part because of its ability to spread burns, Jigglypuff isn't being used for Cute Charm. Cute Charm is simply its default best ability on 99% of sets, because its other options, Competitive and Friend Guard, are useless. For the standard Wish defensive sets, Cute Charm is the only ability that actually does something, so it's the default. Competitive can be used, but it's only useful on the rare set-up Jigglypuff or the once-in-a-blue-moon defensive set running a special move. As such, Cute Charm isn't seen as an important part of Jigglypuff's gameplan. It's like if Toxapex had a 15% to confuse you when you hit it with a contact move as an innate trait. You're rarely if ever going to pick Toxapex for this. It's going to do the same things it always did. Neither are you going to rely on it to win a game off of confusion hax, unless it's literally your only option. However, it comes up enough to be incredibly obnoxious and ruin what would be a good and competitive match.
As such, Jigglypuff will be entirely unimpacted by this change. You can just swap all of your Jigglypuffs to Competitive, with no other changes, and perform the same in the majority of battles, and you most likely won't even notice this tiering action should it go through--it'll be as if Cute Charm just didn't activate 100% of the time going forward.
Why keep Cute Charm?
Normally, for tiering action posts like this, I try to put both viewpoints, even if I disagree with one, to help keep it a fairly objective look at things. For this one, though, I really have no defense of Cute Charm, besides the fact that it's just not that common to affect games. Sure, games may have a less than 10% chance of Cute Charm making a real impact... but for those games that do, it is clearly an undebatably uncompetitive by nature of being a pure RNG fish ability. There is could be an argument to be made that banning Cute Charm is in violation of tiering policy, and though I am not an expert, I believe it falls under nature of Uncompetitive.
As such, the council made a decision to look at Cute Charm to ban before the start of the tournament, and have reached a decision.
| cyclonez_ | Alon Guy Person | Zpice | M0onStarr | ||
| Cute Charm | BAN | BAN | BAN | 3/4 BANNED |
Zpice has not yet voted, but his vote will not change the outcome, and as such, Cute Charm is now banned from Do Not Use!
Do Not Use is suspect testing Shedinja!
Over the last few months, more and more people have been discussing the place of Shedinja in the tier. With Solomods Premier League on the horizon, it's time to look into this controversial Pokémon.
Suspect Reasoning
I don't think Shedinja needs a ton of introduction. It's been a controversial Pokémon since its inclusion in the very first incarnation of DNU, back in August 2022. Since coming back to the tier in the reset in January 2024, it has served as a great choice in the tier, especially on more polarized builds such as stall and hyper offense.
Its detractors site two main things: its uncompetitive nature and its raw power. First, Wonder Guard is still a fantastic ability, and allows Shedinja completely free entry into certain picks, with that number growing drastically if the movesets have been scouted. This allows it to have unhealthy switching dynamics and force a lot of 50/50 predictions, as midgrounds effectively don't exist with Shedinja in play. In addition, it also has the highest base stat in the tier for offensive stats, boasting an incredible base 90 attack bolstered by Swords Dance and Poltergeist, and strong priority moves.
In addition, there's an argument of how Shedinja doesn't really fit the purpose of the tier. This is supposed to be a tier for truly bad Pokemon, such as mediocre LC mons, a few terrible NFEs, and Luvdisc. While Shedinja isn't amazing in singles historically, it's a far far cry from the others, and really only got in via technicality (if it had a normal HP stat, it would almost certainly not be in the tier from a BST perspective). However, this isn't as important as the actual metagame impact.
However, it's not all good news for the husk, as there is quite a bit of counterplay present. Knock Off is a very common move, and Shedinja is prone to being Pursuit trapped by Pokemon such as Rattata-Alola or Taillow. In addition, most Pokemon in the metagame can slot Toxic to hit it. It also struggles to break through Pokemon that resist its dual STAB, such as Swablu, Hoothoot, or even choices such as itemless Poison-types (which aren't a bad idea when Bramblin is arguably the best Pokemon in the tier). Time will tell whether this is enough!
Suspect Information
There are three ways to qualify for this suspect test.
1. Win 5 games of DNU during the suspect period, sending replays to cyclonez_ (jumpheart on discord) to confirm.
2. Play 15 games of DNU during the suspect period, sending replays to cyclonez_ (jumpheart on discord) to confirm.
3. Win a suspect roomtour, which will be held on Pokemon Showdown over the course of the suspect period. There will be 3 tours, with times TBD (will send out a schedule when I know for sure).
A single opponent can only count for up to 2 wins / 5 games if qualifying via method 1 / 2.
The suspect will last for 12 days, lasting through January 4th. Voting will work the same as last time, with a blind voting thread in the non-TC subforum. Good luck!
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pet-mods-do-not-use-suspect-shedinja.3757699/post-10397705
Shedinja banned via suspect test!
Shedinja banned via suspect test!