Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records

Ended up finally winning battle tower gold after so much time. :) Done on emulator, so someone might say it's not legit, but I am satisfied for myself knowing I did it with legal mons and no save-states.

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Nothing original, as I used Jumpan16's team, and I honestly think it's one of the most fun teams to use (with due respect to Dans Macabre, which is a work of genius). Teams like Werster's are too inconsistent. I won with Team Steamroller on my second try, and usually most "normal" teams you die multiple times before getting the run. Quite a few close calls regardless, having to PP stall what I believe was psych up acid armor Vaporeon with my Suicune, and then being boneheaded enough to try to go for a curse war with Anabel's Lax banking on body slam's para chance. Anyway, an incredible gaming experience all around, and reminds me why I got into the more hardcore end of this game.

Shotouts to Ciro's pokemon maker too. Also, anyone who wants a clean save before battle frontier to do these kinds of runs, hit me up.

Team Steamroller courtesy Jumpman16:
Salamence @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Brick Break

Snorlax @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 140 HP / 96 Atk / 56 Def / 216 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Curse
- Body Slam
- Earthquake

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 126 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Rest
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
 
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Ended up finally winning battle tower gold after so much time. :) Done on emulator, so someone might say it's not legit, but I am satisfied for myself knowing I did it with legal mons and no save-states.

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Nothing original, as I used Jumpan16's team, and I honestly think it's one of the most fun teams to use (with due respect to Dans Macabre, which is a work of genius). Teams like Werster's are too inconsistent. I won with Team Steamroller on my second try, and usually most "normal" teams you die multiple times before getting the run. Quite a few close calls regardless, having to PP stall what I believe was psych up acid armor Vaporeon with my Suicune, and then being boneheaded enough to try to go for a curse war with Anabel's Lax banking on body slam's para chance. Anyway, an incredible gaming experience all around, and reminds me why I got into the more hardcore end of this game.

Shotouts to Ciro's pokemon maker too. Also, anyone who wants a clean save before battle frontier to do these kinds of runs, hit me up.
Nice work on the Gold Symbol asbdsp! An emulator run is just as valid as a cart run, so don't worry about if others think it's legit or not.
Also, if you include an importable for the team you used I can add your name to the leaderboard, even if it's not your original team. You can either edit it into your previous post or as a new post.
 
Workshopping a couple spreads for an emulator playthrough with limited resources would appreciate some input

For a MixGross (Meteor Mash, Psychic, Thunderpunch, Ice Punch (Earthquake on cart))
- Brave, 160 hp, 72 atk, 96, spa, 180 spe
- was going to go 336 hp, 160 hits 341 which survives +1 ddtar eq per smogon, 180 speed hits 198 which clears the 196 speed tier, 96 spa let's tpunch 2hko 252/0 skarm, rest in attack

For a Milotic (Surf, Ice Beam, Recover, Refresh (Toxic on cart))
- Bold, 252 hp, 132 def, 64 spa, 52 Spd
- arbitrary mix of bulk, sdef hits 299, special attack hits the mid 250s, need a bit more power without toxic available, max hp is obvious and rest in defense for best mixed bulk


Lastly, any reason to go more than 136+ on Starmie (330?)
 
Reporting a new record today of 121 wins in Battle Tower Multi. Another long post inbound!



Intro

Multi Mode is my favourite mode of battling, no question. I love the unpredictable nature of it, and the fact that it’s much more of a challenge than other modes because it often feels more like 2v1; if you get a bad partner, you’re screwed and you essentially have to carry the can yourself. Because of this, a lot of people don’t have the patience for it and recorded streaks with an NPC partner I’ve seen on Smogon rarely get much further than 100 wins. The true key to success in this mode comes from playing around your AI partner’s piss-poor tactics and (more often than not) doing twice the work yourself.

It took me two attempts to get to 100 wins, but my second was a lot smoother as I’ll detail below. (As a side note, I was expecting to get the Gold Shield for this, but it turns out Gen 3 is prejudiced and that’s only for Singles).



Basics
As mentioned, the AI plays quite poorly (and seemingly much more so when it’s on your side). However, there’s a reasoning to the decisions it makes. If you’ve read the article on the Battle Subway and in particular the section about AI tendencies, much of it still holds true here. Knowing how the AI operates is essential because if you can reliably intuit how your partner is likely to behave you can work more or less in sync with them to get the most optimum results.

So, the key points to keep in mind:

-The AI will go for a kill when it can. This is the most basic point. If there is a Pokemon with low health they are capable of KOing, then nine times out of ten they will act accordingly.

-In a double battle, the AI generally tries to avoid damaging their partner, but won't hesitate to do so if it would result in a KO against the enemy (even if it also KOs the partner). This includes Explosion and Selfdestruct: I’ve witnessed a Metagross blow up and take down its partner Ursaring while failing to KO either of my side’s Pokemon.

-Conversely, the AI is aware of basic strategies relating to abilities/immunities that play in the partner’s favour. So they will use Toxic on a partner with Guts (even if the partner has very low health), use Teeter Dance if the partner has Own Tempo, or use fire attacks on a partner with Flash Fire.

-The Subway article mentions that the AI seems to prefer using moves that hit both opponents, such as Surf, even if it’s not necessarily the most effective move. I haven’t always found this to be the case. There have been instances where my partner could have used Surf for a double super-effective hit (such as against a Tyranitar with low health and its partner Regirock) but opted to use a similar-powered move that would KO Tyranitar, such as Thunderbolt. Interesting.

-The AI seems to prioritise the usage of status moves. I’m not sure if this is just specific to your partner. From my experience, it seems that whenever I chose a partner who had any status moves they’d just spam them ineffectively. This is especially important with Counter/Mirror Coat: both allies and opponents will often use them even if they have no prospect of surviving a move.


My Team
Since I knew I needed a powerful team that could rapidly KO lots of opponents, I went with a tried-and-tested combination.


1568478276107.png

Tauros@Choice Band (Intimidate)
-Double-edge
-Earthquake
-
-
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Speed / 6 HP (Adamant)

Because I’m only running two moves, it’s important to have partners who can handle the two Pokemon I can’t – Misdreavus and Gengar. This is also why Tauros always goes up first; sending it out last is begging to be Banded into a useless move. Hidden Power Ghost would have been nice, but I’m not an expert at RNG so I let it go. Besides, it’s too specific; even most Steel-types usually take a reasonable chunk of damage from Double-Edge. Double-Edge is favoured here over Return: the recoil can sting, but the increased base power scores KOs on various bulkier Pokemon Return often doesn’t, or leaves them with a shred of health so that my partner will be baited into picking them off.

Tauros is probably the best lead in this format. Intimidate is a great ability, and allows Tauros to survive most physical attacks; partnering it with another Intimidate user makes any physical attackers the opponent leads with a total joke: Gyarados and Salamence are greatly favoured when I can get them. Machamp and Hariyama can still occasionally be difficult to take down, but they’re much less threatening with -1 or -2 Attack.


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Latios@Lum Berry (Levitate)
-Psychic
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Dragon Claw
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed / 6 HP (Modest)

I debated using Latias, but Latios’ extra power won out in the end. There isn’t much of a better choice for an item: Lum Berry has better utility than Leftovers in Doubles. I initially ran Calm Mind, but multi is not the format to boost; it’s too fast, and most opponents Latios struggles with can be 2KO’d anyway, or simply piled on with my partner.

The objective with my team is always to get at least one KO on turn 1. If this is accomplished the match becomes very hard to lose. If both foes present a challenge to my side, I’ll generally try to KO both Pokemon on one side so it’s 2v1 in my favour. Note that Gen 3 switching mechanics means that it is possible to KO both side’s Pokemon in one turn (if you’re lucky and/or predict well, of course).


Partner Criteria
So here’s the most important bit. Choosing the right partner in the Battle Salon is highly important. Up until around the 35th battle I would typically partner with an apprentice; if you manage to create one, early on they’ll be a decent partner due to having fully-evolved Pokemon – after about 4 rounds, however, they fall behind the NPCs in terms of strength and should be ignored. I have two; a Beauty with Mawile, Lanturn, and Ninetales (Earthquake bait, the lot of them) and a Bug Catcher with Shedinja, Dustox, and Pinsir. All apprentice Pokemon have 85 EVs in each stat and a random nature, and do not usually have great movesets.

After 49 or 56 wins (I’m not sure which), the NPCs start bringing legendaries. This is when it gets really interesting. Generally when picking a partner I’ll go for someone with a strong special attacker as their lead, preferably immune to Earthquake. Zapdos, Aerodactyl, Gengar, Dragonite, Latias, Flygon, Skarmory, Gyarados, and Salamence all make good partners for Tauros (Gyara and Salamence especially for the sweet double-Intimidate): Moltres and Articuno are somewhat more risky but doable in a pinch. For the partner’s backup slot, strong physical attackers are useful to complement Latios, but another powerful special attacker is good too. If a potential partner has two Levitators, it’s practically a done deal. Anything weak to Earthquake is an immediate no-no. In fact, anything that takes damage at all from Earthquake is pretty much undesirable, with some exceptions like Starmie, Suicune, and Regice.

If I can’t find a strong offensive partner (which happens fairly regularly) then I’ll go with someone with bulky Pokemon that can draw fire from my guys and act as a meatshield whilst I try and wreck the opponent’s team. Suicune is particularly excellent at this, since it’s so bulky it can soak up a ton of hits and generally get at least one kill.

However, solely defensive partners are a BIG no-no. Doubles is not the format for defensive play and chances are your partner won’t achieve anything useful before being KO’d. Obviously, if both of my Pokemon faint, the match becomes 2v1 against the partner; in that instance, I generally just turn my game off because the chances of them winning alone are close to zero. A team with anything less than 8 offensive moves is sub-par; this can make choosing someone with any of the legendary birds dangerous because of their abysmal movesets. I used a spreadsheet of Frontier Pokemon to help determine what my prospective partners were carrying but this wasn’t always useful because many trainers in the later rounds carry multiple versions of the same Pokemon (being told your partner has a Dragonite with Earthquake, for instance, doesn’t really help).

Picking a good partner means that you’ll generally have an easier time of things, but even with the best partner possible they’ll still trip you up a lot of the time. While it’s dangerous to assume you can predict what your partner will do, keeping the AI tendencies I mentioned earlier in mind means that it’s possible to at least make an informed guess. All the usual standards of CPU behaviour seem to apply for your partner, though I have often wondered if there’s extra coding in place to make your partner play like an idiot. Obviously, if your partner has a Starmie with Ice Beam up against a Flygon and Altaria, the odds of them playing badly are much less, but it’s still dangerous to assume they’ll take care of things for you.

Even with the relatively good spread of partners available once I hit 70 wins, it’s still not guaranteed that you’ll get a good partner, and several times I found myself in a room full of NPCs with EQ-weak leads. To that end, I mixed records with myself so that I’d always have at least one solid option.


1568478422409.png

School Kid Orienne


1568478472118.png

Latias@Lum Berry (Levitate)
Psychic
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Surf
252 SA/Speed, 6 HP (Modest)


1568478485195.png

Aerodactyl@Choice Band (Pressure)
Double-edge
Rock Slide
Earthquake
Aerial Ace
252 Att/Speed, 6 HP (Adamant)


“If it ain’t broke…” was the thinking here. While this team is solid, there’s still some variance. Ideally Latias will be in position 1, as this combos well with Tauros; Aerodactyl tends to avoid using Earthquake when partnered with Tauros and this can sometimes be a hindrance. Additionally, since Latias and Tauros have the same Speed stat I have to keep this in mind when attacking, but this hasn’t cost me a match yet.

Also, it’s amusing that the game tries very ineptly to pretend that they both have the same original Trainer when they don’t (note the different Trainer IDs in the attached pics).

Threats
Quick Claw users are still majorly threatening, particularly those with OHKO moves or Selfdestruct/Explosion; random Focus Band activations are also grating. I’ve learned to avoid attacking Swampert and Blastoise at full health due to the likelihood of them carrying Counter.

Pokemon that boost can be hard to stop if they manage to get going, particularly bulky titans like Snorlax, Metagross, and Registeel. Registeel has an annoying tendency to come out second when Tauros has already selected Double-Edge. I largely try to avoid switching, so it’s rare that I can pivot Tauros back in; I have to rely on my partners ganging up once everything else is dead. There's very little you can do to stop boosters short of taking them down as quickly as possible: simply knocking out all of the other Pokemon on the field and ganging up on the remainer works well, too.


Losses
My first loss

My first loss at 108 wins (this was prior to mixing records) would have been totally avoidable if I’d just played more carefully. I’d teamed up with Cooltrainer Gillian, who was using Zapdos (Thunderbolt, Drill Peck, Substitute, Thunder Wave) and Dragonite (Double-Edge, Aerial Ace, Earthquake, Dragon Dance) which I’d been pretty impressed with so far.

Battle starts against Xatu and Forretress. Tauros took down Xatu with Double-Edge, Zapdos used Thunderbolt on the Mr Mime that came out to replace it, taking it to about 60%. Forretress used Double-Edge on Tauros and got it down to around 45%. Next turn, Tauros dropped Mr Mime, Zapdos Thunder Waved Forretress, and Forretress Double-Edged Tauros again and killed it. Latias comes out, and Forretress uses Explosion to kill Latias and Zapdos, getting a critical hit on the latter. One Pokemon left on each side, but the opponent’s last Pokemon… was Glalie. Carrie’s Dragonite, of course, had no chance. Not my finest hour at all, and I’m gutted to have screwed up what was looking like a good streak.

Second loss

Was partnered with Orienne and went up against Tyranitar and Swampert. Tyranitar got a Quick Claw’d critical hit Crunch on Tauros, dropping it, while Latias used Ice Beam on Tyranitar and Swampert Curse’d. I had a feeling it was already over at this point, but I duly sent out Latios and used Dragon Claw to get Tyranitar to about 30%. Latias used Psychic on Swampert for about 50%; it Cursed again, but Tyranitar used Crunch on Latios again for about 90%. Figuring I may as well get in one kill, I finished off Swampert with Psychic; Steelix came out to replace it and got frozen by Latias’ Ice Beam. Tyranitar promptly KO’d Latios and Latias in turn. Aerodactyl EQ’d for a double KO, but the PokeManiac I was facing sent out… Meganium, which got a boost off the Ancientpower it dropped Aero with (adding insult to injury). Can’t fault the AI here, it played about as well as I would have. Still, I’m quite proud of this run and I think I’ll be trying again in due course.


If you read all that, thanks and I hope you enjoyed it. Any feedback/comments welcome!
 

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Workshopping a couple spreads for an emulator playthrough with limited resources would appreciate some input

For a MixGross (Meteor Mash, Psychic, Thunderpunch, Ice Punch (Earthquake on cart))
- Brave, 160 hp, 72 atk, 96, spa, 180 spe
- was going to go 336 hp, 160 hits 341 which survives +1 ddtar eq per smogon, 180 speed hits 198 which clears the 196 speed tier, 96 spa let's tpunch 2hko 252/0 skarm, rest in attack

For a Milotic (Surf, Ice Beam, Recover, Refresh (Toxic on cart))
- Bold, 252 hp, 132 def, 64 spa, 52 Spd
- arbitrary mix of bulk, sdef hits 299, special attack hits the mid 250s, need a bit more power without toxic available, max hp is obvious and rest in defense for best mixed bulk


Lastly, any reason to go more than 136+ on Starmie (330?)

Metagross set looks pretty solid overall. I think Ice Punch or Earthquake should replace Psychic though since it's only merit is being able to hit Weezing significantly than its other moves. The coverage gained from Earthquake or Ice Punch would be more beneficial since Earthquake let's you deal with opposing Metagross sets while Ice Punch destroys anything x4 weak (Salamence, Gligar, Flygon) to it.

On Milotic, I'm not a big fan of splitting its EV mostly because of this:
+1 255+ Atk Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Milotic: 209-247 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I'm not sure what is the purpose of investing so much in SpA and SpD, so if there are any specific benchmarks you might have done with that purpose, I would like to know!
 
Metagross set looks pretty solid overall. I think Ice Punch or Earthquake should replace Psychic though since it's only merit is being able to hit Weezing significantly than its other moves. The coverage gained from Earthquake or Ice Punch would be more beneficial since Earthquake let's you deal with opposing Metagross sets while Ice Punch destroys anything x4 weak (Salamence, Gligar, Flygon) to it.

On Milotic, I'm not a big fan of splitting its EV mostly because of this:
+1 255+ Atk Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Milotic: 209-247 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I'm not sure what is the purpose of investing so much in SpA and SpD, so if there are any specific benchmarks you might have done with that purpose, I would like to know!
Unfortunately Earthquake would only be accessible on cartridge, not on the emulator run. Psychic also works well as a secondary STAB against things that resist steel, speaking from adv ou experience

milotic evs are pretty arbitrary like i mentioned, completely open to changing them. mostly looking to use it as a balanced tank which very well could mean investing more in defense and not at all in sdef, i'm mostly concerned about damage dealing on emulator since i wont have access to toxic and min spa might not be enough to get the job done. probably need enough special attack to guarantee OHKOs on things like marowak and 2HKOs on things like ursaring if at all possible
 
Hello, im trying to beat emerald battle frontier, all gold símbols currently im on my psp emerald so no cheats or trade pokemons, my team Will be swampert, metacross and latios, any suggestion on natures? Ill be IV breeding
 
Unfortunately Earthquake would only be accessible on cartridge, not on the emulator run. Psychic also works well as a secondary STAB against things that resist steel, speaking from adv ou experience

milotic evs are pretty arbitrary like i mentioned, completely open to changing them. mostly looking to use it as a balanced tank which very well could mean investing more in defense and not at all in sdef, i'm mostly concerned about damage dealing on emulator since i wont have access to toxic and min spa might not be enough to get the job done. probably need enough special attack to guarantee OHKOs on things like marowak and 2HKOs on things like ursaring if at all possible

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Level: 100
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 SpA
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic

This is probably the best spread I could come up with, while meeting your requirements. You only need 52 SpA EVs at Lv.100 to OHKO Marowak. I doubt it might be an issue since most of the time, it will be picking Swords Dance. The defensive EVs are not a guarantee for Salamence 4, but it should do the job:

+1 255+ Atk Salamence Double-Edge vs. 204 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 185-218 (48.4 - 57%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Ursaring won't be 2HKO'd unless you use Modest and/or add a signifcant amount of SpA. I don't think Milotic should be used to handle Ursaring and you'll probably want a teammate that can provide a resistance to its STAB and switch into it.
 
Hello, im trying to beat emerald battle frontier, all gold símbols currently im on my psp emerald so no cheats or trade pokemons, my team Will be swampert, metacross and latios, any suggestion on natures? Ill be IV breeding

Adamant metagross unless your running mix, latios timid ofc and swampert has so many viable natures, although they should all be -speed.

Hello, I have emerald on my 2ds xl and after nuzlocking it I realized how fun gen III was. I am still browsing ebay for a good legit emerald w/ battery since when I am playing more serious I prefer to use authentic games + simpler to RNG abuse on cart. Anyways, my main question revoves around the viability of this milotic set I have theorized for this team:

Team One:
128.png

Tauros @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Double-Edge

Normal and ghost work well together, normal perhaps benefitting more. If gengar manages to score a KO, then D.Bonds chances are the last mon will lose to tauros, or at the least, suffer -1 attack and enough damage where milo kills. In reverse, if tauros manages to get one kill all gengar must do is get a kill of its own and the last mon is toast to d bond. I theorize these two alone will win most games.

094.png

Gengar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Destiny Bond

350.png

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 4 SpA / 20 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Recover

So, Milotic... Basically this team uses 2 highly offensive pokemon, either gengar or tauros can lead. Now I wanted a defensive backbone to make use of intimidate and to deal with opposing offense and in general 3 attacks can have trouble VS haxy mons w/ double team or bright powder. Milotic came to mind, I like her a lot and never got to use one in gen 4 tower. My team though, was weak to OHKO mons, and standard 2 attack toxic recover milo is prone to lose to them. The idea here is that surf OHKO's rhydon, and sub + recover lets me evade or stall sheercold / slower bulkier ohko users at the cost of ice beam. Intimidate lets milo survive deadly attack the ice beam set normally can deal with such as Double edge mence, and gengar switches in on strong normal moves. What do you think of this?

Team 2:

121.png

Starmie @ Bright Powder / Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

I started this team with the tried and true and one of my favorites- offensive starmie. No expert belt or life orb is lamesauce and natural cure makes lum not as useful so I went with bright powder to perhaps cheese a little and maybe dodge an essential quick claw which could easily cause a loss if say, a QC EQ were to crit me.

003.png

Venusaur @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 12 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain / HP grass / Sludge Bomb [Sadly need grass for rhydon. Why does giga have 8 pp max???]
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect

A niche choice, and I did so in purpose. I actually think he may have potential, my only concern being 90 acc on leech seed. I realized the only two major weakness type wise that starmie suffers from is to grass and electric- electric being the more urgent. Venu deal well with all electrics bar zapdos w/ drill peck but even then leech and protect requires a miss or crit to lose. On the reverse side, starmie resists fire, ice, psychic and does well against flying. Venu biggest trait is its ability to PP stall moves that could otherwise deal with it and OHKO moves. Base 80 speed is underrated. Still I realize it needs support due to its weakness, and w/o sludge bomb opposing grass is a annoying, even with venus 0.25 reisist.

Lastmon @ ???
Ability: Heres where I need your help!


I am considering moltres for a last member on team 2 but you can't / its near impossible to RNG on FRLG for perfect IV's or even good ones. Pressure and its typing completes not only a FWG core but compliments leech seed stall aswell. Zapdos is a threat tho. Arcanine is also an option, and of course steel types could work aswell if not for overlap in weakness. [Banded steelix] W/O sludge bomb I lack a special attacker and choice band would be a welcome addition. Slaking or tauros maybe?If you guys have any suggestion on team 2 please tell me, and of course I need to know if that milotic is a dud or not
 

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Adamant metagross unless your running mix, latios timid ofc and swampert has so many viable natures, although they should all be -speed.

Hello, I have emerald on my 2ds xl and after nuzlocking it I realized how fun gen III was. I am still browsing ebay for a good legit emerald w/ battery since when I am playing more serious I prefer to use authentic games + simpler to RNG abuse on cart. Anyways, my main question revoves around the viability of this milotic set I have theorized for this team:

Team One:
View attachment 195091
Tauros @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Double-Edge

Normal and ghost work well together, normal perhaps benefitting more. If gengar manages to score a KO, then D.Bonds chances are the last mon will lose to tauros, or at the least, suffer -1 attack and enough damage where milo kills. In reverse, if tauros manages to get one kill all gengar must do is get a kill of its own and the last mon is toast to d bond. I theorize these two alone will win most games.

094.png

Gengar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Destiny Bond

View attachment 195094
Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 4 SpA / 20 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Recover

So, Milotic... Basically this team uses 2 highly offensive pokemon, either gengar or tauros can lead. Now I wanted a defensive backbone to make use of intimidate and to deal with opposing offense and in general 3 attacks can have trouble VS haxy mons w/ double team or bright powder. Milotic came to mind, I like her a lot and never got to use one in gen 4 tower. My team though, was weak to OHKO mons, and standard 2 attack toxic recover milo is prone to lose to them. The idea here is that surf OHKO's rhydon, and sub + recover lets me evade or stall sheercold / slower bulkier ohko users at the cost of ice beam. Intimidate lets milo survive deadly attack the ice beam set normally can deal with such as Double edge mence, and gengar switches in on strong normal moves. What do you think of this?

Team 2:

View attachment 195095
Starmie @ Bright Powder / Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

I started this team with the tried and true and one of my favorites- offensive starmie. No expert belt or life orb is lamesauce and natural cure makes lum not as useful so I went with bright powder to perhaps cheese a little and maybe dodge an essential quick claw which could easily cause a loss if say, a QC EQ were to crit me.

View attachment 195097
Venusaur @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 12 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain / HP grass / Sludge Bomb [Sadly need grass for rhydon. Why does giga have 8 pp max???]
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect

A niche choice, and I did so in purpose. I actually think he may have potential, my only concern being 90 acc on leech seed. I realized the only two major weakness type wise that starmie suffers from is to grass and electric- electric being the more urgent. Venu deal well with all electrics bar zapdos w/ drill peck but even then leech and protect requires a miss or crit to lose. On the reverse side, starmie resists fire, ice, psychic and does well against flying. Venu biggest trait is its ability to PP stall moves that could otherwise deal with it and OHKO moves. Base 80 speed is underrated. Still I realize it needs support due to its weakness, and w/o sludge bomb opposing grass is a annoying, even with venus 0.25 reisist.

Lastmon @ ???
Ability: Heres where I need your help!


I am considering moltres for a last member on team 2 but you can't / its near impossible to RNG on FRLG for perfect IV's or even good ones. Pressure and its typing completes not only a FWG core but compliments leech seed stall aswell. Zapdos is a threat tho. Arcanine is also an option, and of course steel types could work aswell if not for overlap in weakness. [Banded steelix] W/O sludge bomb I lack a special attacker and choice band would be a welcome addition. Slaking or tauros maybe?If you guys have any suggestion on team 2 please tell me, and of course I need to know if that milotic is a dud or not

Regarding the Milotic set, I think it's perfectly viable. Sub + Toxic looks like something fun to try. I'm not sure if you have access to Colosseum, but if you do, I would rather use Suicune on this team.

On your first team, it is a decent pick on paper, but the biggest issue you will face is Jolteon 4 which runs +252 Spe. It also has King's Rock and since he is faster than both Tauros / Gengar he will easily blow through this team with a bit of hax. I'm not a big fan of offensive Gengar on this generation due to its lack of STAB, so I would say that he is the weakest link on this team. I would recommend replacing Gengar with Latias:

Latias @ Lum Berry
Modest Nature
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 124 HP / 4 Def / 156 SpA / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
- Psychic
- Ice Beam / Dragon Claw
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind

Latias resists Fighting attacks while contributing with an Electric / Grass resistance and it eases up your matchup with Jolteon 4 while adding a Pokemon with sweeping potential on your team. The SpA EVs are enough to OHKO Muk at +1. The bulk EVs makes even strong STAB Ice attacks from the likes Lapras 4 unable to 2HKO it at +1 and you can easily punish Water types with Thunderbolt. The choice between Dragon Claw and Ice Beam depends on what your team needs. Ice Beam OHKOs Salamence 4 in cold blood and it still gives you coverage vs opposing Dragons. You don't have to worry about Kingdra since it does pathetic damage to this Latias set once she has a Calm Mind boost under her belt. Dragon Claw has its own merit of being able to be used vs opposing Psychic Calm Mind users. It basically eases up your matchup against Gardevoir 4 and Espeon 2/4, just to give you an idea.
 
Regarding the Milotic set, I think it's perfectly viable. Sub + Toxic looks like something fun to try. I'm not sure if you have access to Colosseum, but if you do, I would rather use Suicune on this team.

On your first team, it is a decent pick on paper, but the biggest issue you will face is Jolteon 4 which runs +252 Spe. It also has King's Rock and since he is faster than both Tauros / Gengar he will easily blow through this team with a bit of hax. I'm not a big fan of offensive Gengar on this generation due to its lack of STAB, so I would say that he is the weakest link on this team. I would recommend replacing Gengar with Latias:

Latias @ Lum Berry
Modest Nature
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 124 HP / 4 Def / 156 SpA / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
- Psychic
- Ice Beam / Dragon Claw
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind

Latias resists Fighting attacks while contributing with an Electric / Grass resistance and it eases up your matchup with Jolteon 4 while adding a Pokemon with sweeping potential on your team. The SpA EVs are enough to OHKO Muk at +1. The bulk EVs makes even strong STAB Ice attacks from the likes Lapras 4 unable to 2HKO it at +1 and you can easily punish Water types with Thunderbolt. The choice between Dragon Claw and Ice Beam depends on what your team needs. Ice Beam OHKOs Salamence 4 in cold blood and it still gives you coverage vs opposing Dragons. You don't have to worry about Kingdra since it does pathetic damage to this Latias set once she has a Calm Mind boost under her belt. Dragon Claw has its own merit of being able to be used vs opposing Psychic Calm Mind users. It basically eases up your matchup against Gardevoir 4 and Espeon 2/4, just to give you an idea.

That sounds solid, I don't have colloseum but If I did and could rng a good suicune I would use protect, sub toxic surf. As for latias, I really like that idea but how do I get one with good IV'S. RNG reporter puts it at over 20 days of frames past for 31/x/31/31/31/31 and then you gotta be 1/60th of a second on point o.o
 
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I guess I place on the leaderboards for getting 36 wins in a row at the Battle Factory at level 50.
This happened back in April so I don't remember the specifics, other than the fact that I was destroyed by a Typhlosion.
 

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Initially, I didn't wanted to re-take Team Azure since I wanted to do it on retail once my GBA cartridge arrives, however, during the 2 month spree I was away from the city, I Towered out of boredom. Updated Team Azure with a finished 650 wins on Pokemon Emerald. Sorry if I can't provide a much more detailed write up this time since due to time constraints, I am not able to do so. There isn't any significant changes other than using Leftovers after the 300 wins benchmark on Suicune and using a slightly updated spread of 236 HP / 142 Def / 132 Spe in order to outspeed Gardevoir 5.

Would like to give my thanks to my brother Thomaz for the great job he did on updating a custom Emerald Frontier sheet and atsync for his extensive research on the Gen III mechanics which helped a lot on this 2nd run.
 
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Just wanted to share my 53 streak in Battle Palace Singles, Open Level:
Proof

This team was put together specifically to wreck Spenser Gold after my previous team lost to him. Spenser is the most dangerous opponent in the Battle Palace because his team is the only one with natures specifically chosen to have good attack/defense/support ratios. He also has both Slaking and Suicune, two very hard pokemon to counter effectively in the palace. My goal was to develop a team that could consistently beat Spenser while also being reasonably effective against other opponents.

All pokemon are at level 70 (I used a 10 ANNIV Raikou)
Plenty of room for improvement since I didn't even breed for IVs, just used the first pokemon with the correct natures.

MENSA - ♂ Salamence with Lum Berry
Hasty Nature - 248 Atk, 240 Speed, 22 HP
IVs: 25, 11, 17, 24, 29, 18
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Brick Break
- Dragon Dance

ROSE - ♀ Skarmory with Chesto Berry
Impish Nature - 252 HP, 252 SpD, 6 Atk
IVs: 15, 5, 30, 20, 20, 1
- Drill Peck
- Steel Wing
- Toxic
- Rest

Raikou with Leftovers
Hasty Nature - 252 SpA, 248 Speed, 10 HP
IVs: 14, 28, 1, 20, 23, 3
- Thunderbolt
- Crunch
- Hidden Power Grass (56)
- Calm Mind

Discussion:
Salamence is the lead. In the early rounds and when facing opponents that don't threaten Salamence too much, your goal is to get a dragon dance sweep going. If you're facing something that Salamence can't deal with, switch to the appropriate teammate. It has a hasty nature, which is the best palace nature in my opinion. At full health a hasty pokemon has a 58% chance to attack, a 37% chance to use a defensive move, and a 5% chance to use a support move. Once below half health, the ratios change to 88% attack, 6% defense, and 5% support. This all means that Salamence will attack while dragon dancing when at high health, but will basically only attack when below half. It's important that the attacking ratio is still pretty high at full health because you don't want to be a sitting duck while the opponent uses their own boosting moves, and there are a lot of opponents that you'll want Salamence to just KO immediately. The support ratio being super low is great because it minimizes wasted turns. (It is more effective to have 3 move coverage than to shoehorn a support move into the moveset) Intimidate works well to counteract the defense drop caused by the hasty nature, and also makes switching a more valuable play. In the palace switching is the only thing you can control directly, so you want to make it as useful as possible.

Skarmory is the most interesting pokemon on this team, acting as a physical wall to counteract the low defense of the other members. It is also the only good answer to Spenser's Slaking. The Impish nature is a bit of an odd one, but it works well. The attack/defense/support ratios are 69/6/25 at full health and 28/55/17 at half or below. So the strategy is that, when you first send Skarmory in, it will mostly do chip damage with Drill peck and Steel wing, and a quarter of the time use Toxic. This strategy is very effective at wearing down opponents, since they tend to waste a lot of turns. When Skarmory is threatened and its health falls below half, it basically spams rest, occasionally using toxic or an attacking move. The first rest is free thanks to the chesto berry, which can really help you out if Skarmory uses rest when it doesn't need to at nearly full HP. Skarmory basically employs a toxic stall strategy, but often the chip damage from its attacking moves can KO opponents as well. It works on most bulky physical attackers... Eventually. Taking Aggron out with Steel Wing isn't pretty, but it works. It's important to note that the ratios change once HP drops below half, and stay that way until the pokemon is switched out, even if HP goes back up. Impish is an especially useful nature because of its defense boost, and because Skarmory will still occasionally attack and use toxic in between Rest when at low health.

Raikou is the best answer to Spenser's Suicune and creates great defensive type synergy with Salamence and Skarmory. Its goal is to set up some Calm Minds and sweep. It uses the Hasty nature in the same way as Salamence. A good answer to the Water and Ice types that Salamence and Skarmory can't deal with.

This team, lacking a strong fighting type move, has a hard time with bulky normal types like Snorlax. Skarmory can often take care of them anyway, but it can get a bit dicey. Losing Skarmory early on is the quickest path to a loss. Rarely Salamence or Raikou will boost instead of attacking and get taken out. They have a harder time after the Spenser Gold battle when the opponents start to become strong, because there is less room for error.

This put a smile on my face. Hasty nature has always been described by HeadsILoseTailsYouWin as the best nature to use in Palace since I was theorymonning a few stuff at the Frontier channel on the Battle Tree Discord. 53 wins is a very solid streak considering that you were using far from perfect Pokemon. I just want to add that the AI does not recognizes Hidden Power's type properly due to it being listed as Normal on the game's coding. So you're pretty much using a wasted slot on a move that the AI will just pick for you randomly without recognizing it properly as a Grass type move. Sadly, Raikou's movepool outside Hidden Power is barren. I guess I would simply remove it from its movepool and stick to Thunderbolt / Crunch / Calm Mind. IIRC Werster only ran two moves on his Metagross in order to increase the odds of its Pokemon choosing the right move. Hope this helps and congrats on the streak :D.
 
I want to share with everyone this Blissey spread I made for the squad I'm using right now -but it's very flexible and could perfectly fit in a lot of teams-


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Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpD / 172 Spe
Timid Nature

IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Soft-Boiled
- Filler (Seismic Toss)
- Filler (Minimize)


This spread lets Blissey reach 106 Speed benchmark and 337 HP (Leftovers number must be divisible by 16 +1) with 252 mandatory EVs in Def and EVs left put in SpDef.
I use Leftovers, but if it is already assigned, then the best set would be Bold 4 HP / 252+ Def / 4 SpDef / 244 Spe (still reaches 106 Speed, with odd HP for Substitute and better Def).

I'm running different filler moves from the two written above, but I think the one I've reported will probably be the most standard set.

This Blissey sits at 106 speed tier, outspeeding an unexpected group of uninvested enemies in the Tower (and notably Nidoking 3, that otherwise would be a huge issue for my team and for stall in general) and is able to safely PP stall dangerous foes (like in particular Walrein 4) thanks to fast Substitute and Soft-Boiled, without losing crucial bulk.

She's really shining in my ongoing streak and other players (without spoilers) are effectively running fast Blissey too, to the point I can assert without hesitations it's the best route the pink blob can take in Emerald Battle Frontier.


EDIT: I've accidentally deleted this post before while previously editing spread for non-Leftovers set, and I've also corrected its EVs
 
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I want to share with everyone this Blissey spread I made for the squad I'm using right now -but it's very flexible and could perfectly fit in a lot of teams-


View attachment 201371
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpD / 172 Spe
Timid Nature

IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Soft-Boiled
- Filler (Seismic Toss)
- Filler (Minimize)


This spread lets Blissey reach 106 Speed benchmark and 337 HP (Leftovers number must be divisible by 16 +1) with 252 mandatory EVs in Def and EVs left put in SpDef.
I use Leftovers, but if it is already assigned, then the best set would be Bold 4 HP / 252+ Def / 4 SpDef / 244 Spe (still reaches 106 Speed, with odd HP for Substitute and better Def).

I'm running different filler moves from the two written above, but I think the one I've reported will probably be the most standard set.

This Blissey sits at 106 speed tier, outspeeding an unexpected group of uninvested enemies in the Tower (and notably Nidoking 3, that otherwise would be a huge issue for my team and for stall in general) and is able to safely PP stall dangerous foes (like in particular Walrein 4) thanks to fast Substitute and Soft-Boiled, without losing crucial bulk.

She's really shining in my ongoing streak and other players (without spoilers) are effectively running fast Blissey too, to the point I can assert without hesitations it's the best route the pink blob can take in Emerald Battle Frontier.


EDIT: I've accidentally deleted this post before while previously editing spread for non-Leftovers set, and I've also corrected its EVs

Since I am also joining the Sub Minimize Blissey hype, I would like to add that any non-Leftovers variant should run something similar to this:

Blissey @ Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Def / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
Nature: Bold
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Filler: Minimize / Toxic / Thunder Wave

In case you are using another Substitute user who simply can't afford to drop the Leftovers recovery due to its benefits (Ex: DD Sub Gyarados, Sub CM Raikou, Sub Gengar, Sub Pressure Aerodactyl, etc) you can run a Lum Berry which is a great item on Blissey due to the fact that it keeps its momentum upon switching while not being forced out by an occasional poisoning from Sludge Bomb or paralysis from Thunderbolt. It also makes Blissey a much more reliable switch-in to all Jynx 1-4 sets and Gengar 1 allowing her to Substitute and basically keep her safe from Lovely Kiss / Hypnosis. 29 HP IVs gives Blissey 329 HP which allows her to make 4 Substitutes with 1 HP left and heal 2 of them with Softboiled (Recovery is rounded down in Generation III contrary to what it is on Generation VI / VIII). If you are using 31 HP IVs though, use a spread of 20 HP / 244 Def / 244 Spe which will pretty much achieve the same results. The damage calculations between these spreads with 29 HP / 31 HP are barely noticeable with the difference on most important damage calcs being decimals.

Special thanks to Adedede who originally came up with the implementation of this set in Generation III. Our discussion on the #Frontier channel in the Battle Tree Discord has been extremely insightful on how to make this work out properly in the Battle Tower. I really enjoy cracking our heads together for this! Huge thanks to SadisticMystic and HeadsILoseTailsYouWin for explaining the recovery mechanic differences between Generations.

Also, a huge shout-out to NoCheese who really inspired me to go this route after reading his Chansey / Mega Slowbro / Dragonite write ups on the Maison / Tree sets! Soon I'll post the new team I intend to streak again on the Battle Tower featuring Minimize Blissey :)
 
Any advice on teambuilding for the Battle Frontier? I’m trying to work on a team just to get my foot in the door. I’m planning on running Mind Reader Articuno plus a MixPert, but I’m stuck trying to come up with a third pokemon to run. I don’t want to add any additional weaknesses to my team, otherwise Venusaur would probably be a good pick. I’ve also considered a special gengar with Destiny Bond, or Self-Destruct snorlax. I’m playing on a cart, but I have every Gen 3 game available, included Colosseum and GoD.

my goal is to score one, maybe 2 kills with Sheer Cold, then switch to some kind of suicide mon. I’ll most likely be running Mind Reader, Sheer Cold, Substitute, and maybe Protect for scouting and Pressure stall. Swampert’s just there for defensive coverage and reliability, but I may swap him out for Flygon since he still covers 3/4 of Articuno’s weaknesses.

or should I scrap the Articuno idea and start fresh? I don’t know where to start at all with this aha
 
Any advice on teambuilding for the Battle Frontier? I’m trying to work on a team just to get my foot in the door. I’m planning on running Mind Reader Articuno plus a MixPert, but I’m stuck trying to come up with a third pokemon to run. I don’t want to add any additional weaknesses to my team, otherwise Venusaur would probably be a good pick. I’ve also considered a special gengar with Destiny Bond, or Self-Destruct snorlax. I’m playing on a cart, but I have every Gen 3 game available, included Colosseum and GoD.

my goal is to score one, maybe 2 kills with Sheer Cold, then switch to some kind of suicide mon. I’ll most likely be running Mind Reader, Sheer Cold, Substitute, and maybe Protect for scouting and Pressure stall. Swampert’s just there for defensive coverage and reliability, but I may swap him out for Flygon since he still covers 3/4 of Articuno’s weaknesses.

or should I scrap the Articuno idea and start fresh? I don’t know where to start at all with this aha

Personally, I don't think Articuno is viable considering that Ice/Flying is a terrible typing where it can be exploited by a common coverage move on physical attackers like Rock Slide. Mixpert is definitely a good choice as well as Flygon. Your choices really depends on what you want to particularly build.

Regarding Gengar, I never considered myself a fan of offensive sets considering that due to the physical/special split, Gengar's STAB moves are physical moves on this gen and while it has better coverage from the special spectrum (Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Giga Drain / Psychic / Thunderbolt) it ends up missing the STAB bonus to kill neutral targets. Destiny Bond is always lit, but you can probably use a non-attacking set similar to what Adedede has on his team. There's plenty of options that Gengar can run such as: Destiny Bond / Perish Song / Substitute / Taunt / Protect / Toxic.

If you have Colosseum, I definitely recommend going all the way out for Suicune. It's the best Pokemon to use in Frontier and as a standalone sweeper it does a fantastic job. If you can SR for a Bold Suicune with decent IVs, it will do the job and get you to the Gold symbol if that is your particular objective. If you feel like attempting to RNG it on retail, Im a Blisy has an excellent video regarding Colo RNG abuse. Good luck and please let me know if you need more help!
 
Any advice on teambuilding for the Battle Frontier? I’m trying to work on a team just to get my foot in the door. I’m planning on running Mind Reader Articuno plus a MixPert, but I’m stuck trying to come up with a third pokemon to run. I don’t want to add any additional weaknesses to my team, otherwise Venusaur would probably be a good pick. I’ve also considered a special gengar with Destiny Bond, or Self-Destruct snorlax. I’m playing on a cart, but I have every Gen 3 game available, included Colosseum and GoD.

my goal is to score one, maybe 2 kills with Sheer Cold, then switch to some kind of suicide mon. I’ll most likely be running Mind Reader, Sheer Cold, Substitute, and maybe Protect for scouting and Pressure stall. Swampert’s just there for defensive coverage and reliability, but I may swap him out for Flygon since he still covers 3/4 of Articuno’s weaknesses.

or should I scrap the Articuno idea and start fresh? I don’t know where to start at all with this aha

Despite everything Kommo-o said it's true, I'm really a big fan of Sheer Cold Articuno.

I used it in my childhood in teams made for fun and it's nice to see someone else want to build around it, but it needs a lot of team support indeed (and even with that, if you want to try a serious run searching for records, probably it's still not your cup of tea)

Recently I tried to teambuild something and I came up with a leading Sub / Protect / Torment / Rest-Pain Split fast Dusclops with Lum Berry, Rest Chesto Swampert and Sub / Protect / Sheer Cold / Mind Reader Timid bulky Articuno.
I immediately abbandoned this (frail) idea mainly because of one big issue: Articuno learns Sheer Cold after lv.50.
It means your team has to face the worst foe at Open Level: Tyranitar, that is the single biggest threat to this archetype of team, specially if paired with strong Special Attackers like Latios, Gardevoir or Houndoom

At the end of the day, I strongly suggest you to run something more classic; as Kommo-o wrote, Suicune, Swampert, Gengar (using at its best his amazing movepool, because all-out attacker is sub-par in gen3), Lati@s and Metagross are all good choices for a pretty solid team (surely most entertaining and reliable than an Articuno stall).
 
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I think it is time for me to present the new team I am working on and I am proud to present to everyone: Crusaders are Unbreakable. This team features a Singles Lv.50 team consisting of Gengar / Blissey / Metagross which takes advantage of the fantastic type synergy between the three members featuring Metagross' raw power, Gengar's stalling ability and Blissey as the special sponge and set-up sweeper.

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デス13 (Gengar) (M) @ Leftovers
IVs: 0 Atk
EVs: 206 HP / 84 Def / 220 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Timid Nature
- Toxic
- Protect
- Substitute
- Perish Song
Hands down to one of the most successful Gengar set and the one I had the most fun playing with. Originally the idea came from Adedede from its Dans Macabre team and I was fascinated with it consdering that while I used to consider Gengar a sub-par Pokemon in the past due to the lack of strong special STABs on this generation despite having excellent coverage options, this opened a whole dimension on how Gengar should be played. My version is a bit different focusing on its ability to exploit the AI with Substitute, while protecting Gengar from status moves such as Thunder Wave. The best part about Gengar is that, while its paper thin defenses are nothing to be proud of, it's defensive typing is fantastic: Ghost/Poison means that Gengar has a x4 resist to Bug which makes it impossible for Heracross to get through. Thanks to Levitate, Gengar not only can boast a Ground immunity but also becomes immune to 3/4 of the mayor OHKO moves meaning that Guillotine / Horn Drill / Fissure are completely useless against him and Sheer Cold is the only OHKO move Gengar is vulnerable to. Also, an immunity to Fight means that Gengar has 0 worries about Cross Chop. The combination of all of these assets makes Gengar a very easy Pokemon to switch into when he's at the back, and a fantastic lead due to its amazing Speed stat.

Substitute is the most important move for Gengar in here as not only it shields him from status moves, but also prevents Gengar from taking damage. Despite the bulk investment, Gengar can still get done for by super-effective move. Protect's main function is to scout potentially for any set that Gengar could be up against. It also works fantastically with Substitute and Toxic as it is the move that allows Gengar to toxic stall an opponent and recover lost HP from Substitute. The amount of times Gengar is able to toxic stall opponents and even the most dangerous ones like Marowak 3/4 makes me think on how succesful Gengar is on this role that it is quite similar to Toxic Stall Gliscor present in the newer generations. If you've used that set before, think of Gengar as a faster, albeit frailer version of Gliscor (without the Electric immunity). The last move is possibly the most interesting one and one of the most valuable ones: Perish Song. While it may be weird to run Perish Song by itself (and let alone not using Mean Look on a weak Pokemon like Gengar), it works so well on this set for two reasons: It forces out dangerous set up sweepers that Toxic stall won't be able to finish off and any Pokemon that immune to Toxic. Once the opponent is down to one last mon and Gengar manages to switch into, Perish Song is pretty much a guaranteed victory after 3 turns. It also forces out and eventually defeats threats like Metagross 3 and Registeel 5 who are immune to Toxic and can set up Double Team, which would be quite troublesome considering the Struggle mechanics in Gen 3.
220 Spe EVs allow Gengar to outspeed 252 Spe Sceptile and Dugtrio which is the 3rd highest speed tier in the Battle Frontier. 206 HP EVs and 84 Def prevents Armaldo 4 from OHKOing Gengar at full health with Banded Rock Slide while also providing it with decent bulk to survive some physical attacks such as Meteor Mash from Metagross. The HP EVs also hit 161 HP which means that it is a Leftovers numbers and after 4 turns, Gengar will recover the lost HP from making one Substitute.

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Cinderella (Blissey) (F) @ Lum Berry
IVs: 29 HP / 11 Atk
EVs: 252 Def / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
Ability: Natural Cure
Bold Nature
- Minimize
- Substitute
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
Sub Minimize Blissey is a fantastic set to use in Generation III and it is one of the best sweepers to use. While it may be weird for me to use the word "sweeper" on a Pokemon that is more well known to be the frontal face of stall, Minimize allows Blissey to effectively sweep by accumulating evasion boosts which will pretty much prevent the foe from landing hits on Blissey while she Seismic Tosses a lot of stuff to death. This Blissey is basically a copy & paste of the Minimize Chansey sets used on the newer generations but with the difference that since there's no Eviolite in here, Blissey is the best option. Gengar desperately needs its Leftovers since it is its only way to recover the HP lost by setting up Substitute, however, due to Blissey's reliable self-recovery in Softboiled, she finds herself not "desperately" needing the extra recovery Leftovers provides. Between Minimize and Substitute, it makes it almost impossible for the AI to land hits on Blissey and let alone break her Sub. Soft-Boiled allows Blissey to recover the lost HP used to create its Substitutes and Seismic Toss is Blissey's only attacking move consistently doing damage to its opponents regardless of their defensive buffs.

As someone who has used Suicune on Gen III as well, there are so many positive things about Minimize Blissey in Gen III, however, it is not as efficient as it is compared to what she can do in the newer games due to the fact that there's an abundant amount of STAB Aerial Ace users in Gen III which bypasses their Sub and are able to break it, which forces Blissey in some cases to go 1-on-1 against them at the risk of going down to an un-timed CH; then there's Salamence 4 who completely eats her alive with STAB Aerial Ace, 252 HP Investment and access to DD (This makes Salamence 4 also, one of the biggest threats for this team). Psych Up is also an issue as it drags the battles much longer and puts Blissey's PP into jeopardy. Suicune has Pressure, the ability to even beat and PP Stall the Pokemon that are immune to its STAB and is overall a much better standalone sweeper. Despite all of the roadblocks Blissey has, on practice, it is much better than what I expected and it is a satisfying experience to use Minimize Blissey in Gen III. It still does what it knows best which is eating Special Attackers without worrying about the boosts they can accumulate thanks to Minimize. It's also a very solid Pokemon to use on this Generation.
The 29 HP IVs allow Blissey to make 4 Substitutes leaving her at 1 HP while recovering full HP from making 2 Substitutes with Softboiled. 252 Def EVs and a Bold nature allows Blissey to be as physically strong as it can be. It also prevents weak coverage physical moves like Earthquake from Walrein 2 and Blastoise 3 from ever breaking the Sub. Since this set lacks Leftovers, a Lum Bery is the best item to use as it allows Blissey to be a much more reliable switch to Jynx 1-4 and Gengar 1 nullifying Hypnosis / Lovely Kiss and setting up a Sub before they hit again. It also helps a lot on shrugging off the occasional poison, paralysis or burns that you can get from switching into moves like Thunderbolt, Fire Blast or Sludge Bomb. It might be weird to use Lum considering that Blissey has Natural Care, but when you take into account that once Blissey accumulates enough Evasion boosts, do you really want to switch out? It simply allows Blissey to prevent losing momentum from an occasional status upon switching. 244 Spe EVs allows Blissey to outspeed Gligar 2 and Nidoking 1 allowing her to set up a Sub and accumulate Minimize boosts preventing them from landing Guillotine / Horn Drill.

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Whitesnake (Metagross) @ Choice Band
IVs: 7 SpA / 30 SpD
EVs: 70 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Steel]
The team had a very solid defensive backbone between Blissey and Gengar, but I needed a bit more of power to compensate for the team's passivity, specially considering that I needed something to handle Armaldo 3. While I initially considered Skarm for this spot, it would have done very little to actually contribute to this team. I also considered Registeel as an alternative since it could also act as a secondary sweeper with STAB HP Steel and set up with Curse / Amnesia, but how many boosts would I need to take it down? It was pretty difficult to come up with a Pokemon that could provide a Rock resistant while not worsening Blissey's weakness to Fighting. Fortunately, the answer came down with Metagross as the best answer for this. Metagross has a fantastic base 135 Attack and couple with a Choice Band, it can easily punch holes on the opponent's team. It also has great physical coverage moves and lastly, Explosion which pretty muchs gets rid of Snorlax without putting Gengar on risk of just dying by accomplishing nothing but force it out if it appears early-game. Metagross' typing balances this team incredibly well as thanks to its Ground weakness, it baits free switch-ins for Gengar while its weakness to Fire allows Blissey to switch with inpunity; all of these without making the Fighting weakness worse (to which Metagross is just neutral to).

Hidden Power Steel is the main STAB and for a good reason. It's pretty obvious that in Gen III Metagross has a big debate on whether it should use Meteor Mash or HP Steel. The former is a 100 base power STAB that is able to obtain an insane amount of OHKOs while the latter is base 70 (which barely overpowers Earthquake factoring STAB) but comes with the benefit of not missing unless Double Team / Brightpowder is used. HP Steel was chosen simply because Metagross could find itself switching at the last turn of a Perish Song'd opponent and once it switches out, you pretty much have the assurance that your next attack will most likely hit. Of course, HP Steel doesn't has the power Meteor Mash can provide, but it is 100% accurate and it still OHKOs Armaldo 3 which is the most important calc for this team. Earthquake is a coverage move to use against slower Fire types like Magmar and opposing Steels like Registeel and other Metagrosses. Shadow Ball is for OHKOing Gengar and 2HKOing Dusclops. Finally Explosion is there in case Metagross needs to nuke something, although considering how much of a good job Perish Song does, it is possibly one of the least moves I have used. It's pretty good to keep though for Curse Snorlax and Umbreon since Gengar can't reliably Perish Song these threats.
188 Spe EVs allows Metagross to outspeed Metagross 2 / 3 and smash them before they either set up in case Gengar can't find an opportunity to Perish Song. Max Attack overall grants Metagross with the most power possible to heavily damage the opponents, notably OHKOing Armaldo 3. The rest goes into HP to simply add a bit more of bulk to Metagross decent defenses.
 
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Personally, I don't think Articuno is viable considering that Ice/Flying is a terrible typing where it can be exploited by a common coverage move on physical attackers like Rock Slide. Mixpert is definitely a good choice as well as Flygon. Your choices really depends on what you want to particularly build.

Regarding Gengar, I never considered myself a fan of offensive sets considering that due to the physical/special split, Gengar's STAB moves are physical moves on this gen and while it has better coverage from the special spectrum (Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Giga Drain / Psychic / Thunderbolt) it ends up missing the STAB bonus to kill neutral targets. Destiny Bond is always lit, but you can probably use a non-attacking set similar to what Adedede has on his team. There's plenty of options that Gengar can run such as: Destiny Bond / Perish Song / Substitute / Taunt / Protect / Toxic.

If you have Colosseum, I definitely recommend going all the way out for Suicune. It's the best Pokemon to use in Frontier and as a standalone sweeper it does a fantastic job. If you can SR for a Bold Suicune with decent IVs, it will do the job and get you to the Gold symbol if that is your particular objective. If you feel like attempting to RNG it on retail, Im a Blisy has an excellent video regarding Colo RNG abuse. Good luck and please let me know if you need more help!
I didn’t think the rock weakness would be too much, but I suppose it is a fairly common type to come across. Most rock users are fairly predictable, so I was going to use Swampert to take care of them, but I’d imagine the AI will probably begin using Sturdy out the wazoo. Swampert sounds like fun, but I don’t want to double up my weakness with Suicune, so I’ll probably RNG on of those in Colosseum. I suppose it’s probably a good idea to mention I’m doing Open Level and not 50s. So TTar is a threat I need to worry about. What kind of suicune do you reccomend? Standard CroCune or just a bulky sweeping set? In addition, why is it important to run 0 attack IVs on non-physical pokes? Decrease the damage done from Confusion and Swagger, correct?
 
I didn’t think the rock weakness would be too much, but I suppose it is a fairly common type to come across. Most rock users are fairly predictable, so I was going to use Swampert to take care of them, but I’d imagine the AI will probably begin using Sturdy out the wazoo. Swampert sounds like fun, but I don’t want to double up my weakness with Suicune, so I’ll probably RNG on of those in Colosseum. I suppose it’s probably a good idea to mention I’m doing Open Level and not 50s.

Take into account that Pokemon like Machamp or Hariyama have access to Rock Slide, as well as many Normal types like Ursaring who can easily break your Sub and put the whole strategy to waste since we are talking about a x4 weakness. It's simply the fact that Articuno has so many weaknesses it isn't an effective mon to use. If you want to use a Sub Pressure stalling set, Pokemon like Zapdos and Aerodactyl do a much better job in those terms. Zapdos has a solid Electric / Flying, it is only weak to Rock and Ice and since it lacks the x4 weakness, it can take a hit if needed to set up something like Toxic, and has STAB Thunderbolt to threaten Water types. On the other hand, Aerodactyl has a higher Speed which means that it can easily set up a Sub faster than anyone else and proceed to PP stall with the fact that nothing will ever be faster than you and hit you first (Jolteon 4 is the only Pokemon that speed ties with it).


Standard CroCune or just a bulky sweeping set?

Regarding Suicune, this is the set that I have been using:

Suicune @ Leftovers / Chesto Berry
EVs: 236 HP / 142 Def / 132 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

The Speed EVs hits 122 Speed at Lv.50 which outspeeds Gardevoir 5 and all Slaking sets. Of course you can adapt these EVs to suit the level you're going to compete at Open Level. 236 HP maximizes Leftovers recovery while preventing Seismic Toss from breaking the Sub. Don't use Sleep Talk because it is too unreliable and it won't pick the appropriate move most of the time which can pretty much jeopardize Suicune's sweep. I would go for Swampert as well in case you want to use another team. It's always a good idea to have both since Swampert is a pretty good Pokemon to use in Frontier overall.


In addition, why is it important to run 0 attack IVs on non-physical pokes? Decrease the damage done from Confusion and Swagger, correct?
For the last question, 0 Atk IVs are used precisely for that purpose. It's not really a requirement if you can't afford to RNG for it since Foul Play does not exists for this generation. Of course, the lower your Attack stat is, the better it is for non-attacking Pokemon or Pokemon that use no physical moves.
 
I didn’t think the rock weakness would be too much, but I suppose it is a fairly common type to come across. Most rock users are fairly predictable, so I was going to use Swampert to take care of them, but I’d imagine the AI will probably begin using Sturdy out the wazoo. Swampert sounds like fun, but I don’t want to double up my weakness with Suicune, so I’ll probably RNG on of those in Colosseum. I suppose it’s probably a good idea to mention I’m doing Open Level and not 50s. So TTar is a threat I need to worry about. What kind of suicune do you reccomend? Standard CroCune or just a bulky sweeping set? In addition, why is it important to run 0 attack IVs on non-physical pokes? Decrease the damage done from Confusion and Swagger, correct?
Best Suicune set (if you are not using hard PP stall teams, like I'm unfortunately doing) is without doubts Substitute / Calm Mind / Surf / Rest.
I really like theorymoning about Timid Cune, but Bold is the safest pick.
You can really play around EVs: using 236 HP EVs for 51 HP Substitute (with 140 HP EVs you reach the best Leftovers number available btw -193 HP-), while Timid can outspeed Houndoom and everything slower with 236 Spe EVs.
 
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Best Suicune set (if you are not using hard PP stall teams, like I'm unfortunately doing) is without doubts Substitute / Calm Mind / Surf / Rest.
I really like theorymoning about Timid Cune, but Bold is the safest pick.
You can really play around EVs: using 236 HP EVs for 51 HP Substitute (with 140 HP EVs you reach the best Leftovers number available btw -193 HP-), while Timid can outspeed Houndoom and everything slower with 236 Spe EVs.
I actually disagree with the two of you and argue for Surf / Ice Beam / Calm Mind / Rest is the best moveset, too many enemy defensive things that you might end up needing to 1v1 that you can't beat without Ice Beam i.e. Lapras or Ludicolo
 
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