Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records

[justonepost]

Just figured I'd let you know there was no offense taken (at least from my part). Of course, we can all agree or disagree on many things. Although I have to mention that in order to claim that certain "X" thing is better than "Y" you need to back up these kind of claims. Starmie is one of the best all-out attackers in Gen 3 and what makes it a decent offensive weapon is the coverage options it gets. It is outclassed and inferior to the Lati@s brothers, no doubt about that and almost everyone in here will agree with you on that. However, Starmie is a very fary cry from being considered "a bad Pokemon." For players who can't RNG a good Lati@s with high IVs, Starmie is a great option for them.

Regarding the move-sets suggestions you posted, if you can't get a Registeel with Hidden Power Steel, just avoid using it. Without a Hidden Power of the same type, it's not even worth considering alternatives or other options because Registeel's offensive stats aren't great and as a defensive Pokemon, it can't really afford to run such low base power attacks.

You also suggested Breloom as a top tier Pokemon. How does Breloom justifies itself being a much better Pokemon than other such as Blissey, Skarmory or even Snorlax? The x4 weakness to Flying, subpar Speed, multiple weaknesses and lack of bulk, doesn't makes it "the best" Pokemon to use. While it has access to Spore and Focus Punch, Breloom can only use its Fighting STAB because the other STAB is special-based. This means it can't beat Water types like Starmie, Slowbro or even Gyarados. Additionally, sleep turns are not meant to last forever, you can get as less than 1 turn of sleep and that's it. Quick Claw also doesn't solves the Speed issue because it only has a 20% to move first, so this doesn't means it will always be faster than Pokemon like Moltres or Salamence.



Re: Brightpowder, it only reduces the accuracy of a certain move, but this doesn't means it will always work. While a Lum Berry can be consumed only once per battle, it basically does it job which is preventing Gyarados from getting permanently crippled by paralysis, let you escape from an unexpected freeze or burn from a fire attack. This isn't something Brightpowder will protect you against and it can be the decisive factor on getting a sweep or being beaten down by the opponent. Even if it's a one time use, Lum Berry, on most cases will always end up being the superior item.



If you are referring to Actaeon's DomeAssistant, it's just a tool that gives you the possibilities of which sets the opponents can carry. We only use at most a spreadsheet that pretty much gives us the information on the kind of Pokemon that the AI is using. Damage calculator is used simply to calculate how much damage you can receive from a certain attack. Helps a lot on teambuilding as otherwise you can customize your EVs based on what you want to survive.

With all being said, my intention is not to attack you though and I do appreciate you shared this with all of us. We're always welcome to hear more about how to rank or judge a certain Pokemon over others, although if you can provide more valuable information as to why you believe certain Pokemon is better than others, would be great!

I still consider Gyarados top tier with at least this set: Bright Powder: Dragon Dance, Rest, Earthquake, Body Slam/Hidden Power(flying), because of overpowered Rest Lum Berry isn't needed anymore.
Breloom is in my opinion very good, because if you get one Spore you'll often win. Nothing can survive a +3Focus Punch, except ghosts.
However it's often not perfect and they get a short sleep, but you could try to set up if it is safe. If i get a bad matchup first turn, i will usually switch. Some don't even survive a +1 Focus Punch even if it is not effective.
I think it's to special for honorable. Another good thing is that the foe can't build up. With 1-6 rounds sleep, the average is 3?
Starmie: The set Psychic, Thunderbolt, Surf, Ice Beam is much better than my previous one, so I'll put it in honorable.
Negative: If Starmie's attacks are normal effective it gets problems, because it often needs 3+ hits and it has many weaknesses. The stats don't look too good either. I think bad IVs Latios is still superior.
Skarmory has definitely potential in a good strategy with for example Blissey as Cripplers. The Problem is that many opponents have a balanced moveset with Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Ice and Fire Punch even if they don't have the type for it. Scizor only got 1 weakness in comparison.
Thanks that you make the effort to explain this. Yeah i meant the spreadsheet with programm.
Thanks again for your appreciation, I try my best. I don't want to do a closer evaluation, if there are concerns i hope i can solve them. But mainly i just wanted this overview.
Still i don't include HP and Sub because this list is only for beginners/casual players. PS: I updated the tier list.(hope it suits everyone)

 

[YumaKuga]

YumaKuga can it be that you deleted your post? I actually didn't read it up to now, but then this will only be a one comment reaction.:(
I know that these things can be taken pretty seriously personally, but i considered myself to be at least more open than the average to constructive criticism. (no one is immune, it's quite hard)

I didn't delete any post so I have no idea what you are saying. Kommo-os post summed up what I wanted to say pretty much. Thus I didn't respond to your last post because I didn't see the need to. Honestly don't know why your trying to call me out on anything because I didn't respond at all. I didn't take anything personally so honestly I'm more confused now with your current double posts. Just interesting how you are trying to say I'm upset or something with no backing up to that claim.
From your previous post you seemed to take it personally when it was normal criticism and were alluding to your name and not posting anymore. Good to know you didn't and actually decided to keep posting.
Anyways have a good day

 

[Kommo-o]

I still consider Gyarados top tier with at least this set: Bright Powder: Dragon Dance, Rest, Earthquake, Body Slam/Hidden Power(flying), because of overpowered Rest Lum Berry isn't needed anymore.

This is where you're still wrong. Chesto + Rest is what lets Gyarados set up all the way to +6 on teams that can take advantage of Gyarados' bulk and Intimidate ability. Don't really try to force a narrative where Gyarados can sweep everything on its own. Thunderpunch + Thunderbolt are still common moves on Pokemon such as Starmie, Alakazam, Jolteon (who still outspeeds at +1 unless you're running Jolly), Hypno, Lanturn, Slaking, Gengar and Porygon 2 (just to name a few). Gyarados has the advantage of setting up on Water types that rely on Ice Beam as a coverage move, but it is still far from being "overpowered" or "invincible." Brightpowder won't save you from a loss against these Pokemon while Lum Berry will save you from a Thunder Wave, a random burn from a fire attack or a freeze. 10% chance of missing is not good enough to be relied upon.

From many perspectives, Bright Powder shouldn't be considered an item considering for various reasons: Leftovers lets you recover the lost health from a Substitute. Lum Berry prevents paralysis from stopping your sweep. Chesto Berry helps a defensive DD Gyarados recover lost health and set up multiple times. There's plenty of items that are much more useful than relying on a 10% chance of evading an attack.

Breloom is in my opinion very good, because if you get one Spore you'll often win. Nothing can survive a +3Focus Punch, except ghosts.
However it's often not perfect and they get a short sleep, but you could try to set up if it is safe. If i get a bad matchup first turn, i will usually switch. Some don't even survive a +1 Focus Punch even if it is not effective.
I think it's to special for honorable. Another good thing is that the foe can't build up. With 1-6 rounds sleep, the average is 3?

Breloom might have been an unexplored Pokemon on the forum, but it's a very far cry from being a "top tier" Pokemon. You're mostly assuming from the perspective that you will pull out a Spore but when you consider its base 70 Speed, there's plenty of faster Pokemon like Aerodactyl, Starmie, Entei, Charizard, Moltres, Zapdos, Alakazam, Salamence, Lati@s and Crobat who will outspeed Breloom and OHKO with their STAB before it even does something. There is no doubt that Focus Punch + Spore + Substitute is a good strategy but it only works if the opponent is a Pokemon that Breloom can cripple. While you can rely on teammates to cover its weaknesses, Breloom has common weaknesses to Fire, Flying, Psychic, Ice and Poison. Having 5 weaknesses is hard to balance on team-building because it will eventually overlap one of them with another teammate. While the average of sleep turns might be 3, you're forgetting that this is not guaranteed. If you're up against a faster opponent who only gets 1 or 2 turns of sleep, Breloom is dead. An slower opponent who consistently gets less than 3 turns of sleep, will break your sub and Breloom can't recover its lost health. Luck is still a factor and Breloom can't clean teams on its own. I should also mention that there is a good amount of Pokemon that can carry a Chesto or a Lum Berry which will ruin the Breloom strategy.

Starmie: The set Psychic, Thunderbolt, Surf, Ice Beam is much better than my previous one, so I'll put it in honorable.
Negative: If Starmie's attacks are normal effective it gets problems, because it often needs 3+ hits and it has many weaknesses. The stats don't look too good either. I think bad IVs Latios is still superior.

Hard disagree on this. If your Latios has extremely bad IVs and nature, you're much better going with Starmie. Great speed tier, two fantastic STABs and good coverage. While I can agree that Starmie had a hard time against neutral targets, this doesn't makes it a bad Pokemon. Latios would still need turns to set up Calm Minds which can lead to crits or unexpected hax.

Skarmory has definitely potential in a good strategy with for example Blissey as Cripplers. The Problem is that many opponents have a balanced moveset with Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, Ice and Fire Punch even if they don't have the type for it. Scizor only got 1 weakness in comparison.
Thanks that you make the effort to explain this. Yeah i meant the spreadsheet with programm.
Thanks again for your appreciation, I try my best. I don't want to do a closer evaluation, if there are concerns i hope i can solve them. But mainly i just wanted this overview.
Still i don't include HP and Sub because this list is only for beginners/casual players. PS: I updated the tier list.(hope it suits everyone)

Scizor has no STAB on this generation other than Steel Wing. It's one of those Pokemon that rely on a Hidden Power to be effective (which based on your posts, it goes against what you're looking for) , so how it is a better Pokemon than Skarm? How are both even comparable? It seems you somehow have an agenda against Skarmory, which is one of the best Pokemon to use here. Don't know why you'd like to insist it is a bad Pokemon to use. Would you be able to show us why something like Scizor would be a much better Pokemon to use than Skarmory?

 

[submenceisop]

Introducing Open Level Tyranitar Arena!

Tyranitar hasn't been explored much overall. I will be introducing this Arena team that Actaeon and I have been working on. Shout out to Adedede for the shiny Tyranitar! I started writing about this around the same time as Acteon. I'll leave the set explanations to his post.

GUNSLINGER (Tyranitar) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 212 HP / 98 Atk / 200 Spe
IVs: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 30 Def / 21 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power Rock
- Earthquake
- Brick Break / Double Edge

98+ Atk Tyranitar Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Umbreon: 153-180 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage

This damage ensures that Tyranitar forces the rest against Greta's Umbreon and wins/ties against her Gengar. If Tyranitar doesn't outright win against Umbreon, you LOSE. Gengar will be forced to tie against her Gengar and then Breloom will easily smash Swampert.

Tyranitar Defensive Calculations

252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 333-392 (84.5 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar: 348-410 (88.3 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Sometimes, it can be difficult to play Tyranitar "well". The idea here is that Tyranitar needs to ensure that Gengar can revenge kill at the worst. This means there are times you just take damage instead of dragon dancing.

From experience, I will list notable pokemon you should just attack and NOT dragon dance turn 1. Basically anything that can hit you hard/sweep you, or can't outspeed @ +1 or ohko with one boost.

Kingdra- DO NOT dragon dance. Attack 2x.
Salamence- Attack once, DD if it's safe
Metagross
Gengar-
Swampert-
Machamp/ Hariyama
Claydol
Milotic/Bulky waters.
Rhydon/ Bulky grounds
Jolteon- Hit it with EQ
Regice/Snorlax/umbreon. Don't get greedy. Made the mistake of not attacking Regice and got crit by blizzard.

The fact that this Tyranitar is so bulky to live surfs, most brick breaks and guarantees value (damage) is amazing. It also destroys or sets up on problematic leads for Gengar (Shadow Ball Crobat, Jolteon, QC Flareon, Houndoom, Espeon).

Gengar (F) @ Magnet
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Substitute / Giga Drain
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch

Gengar Magnet Calculations

252 SpA Magnet Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 261-308 (87.8 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO. Guaranteed ohko after 2 turns of sandstorm damage.
252 SpA Magnet Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 261-308 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gengar loves sandstorm. While it can be a double edged sword at times, sandstorm really helps scout for leftovers and improves some of these ranges. In general, Gengar doesn't need to be healthy, just alive so that it can destiny bond. The idea with Gengar in the second spot is to check the fighting types, bug types, grass types and revenge kill anything that comes after. Try to take out 1-2 pokemon so that Swampert doesn't even have to come out.

Swampert @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 132 Def / 32 SpD / 4 Spe
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
- Dive
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Rest

It was hard to decide on this last spot. We tried Reversal Scizor (lacks immediate power), Choice Band Metagross (too slow at times, getting locked into a bad move sucks). Swampert is pretty solid in this last spot. It loves sandstorm and with rest, it can potentially win against 2 pokemon. I didn't have a 31 iv Relaxed or Sassy Swampert, which potentially could be worth it. This Swampert was lucky enough to avoid some critical hits. Dive is essential to the strategy. In cases like Metagross, you can tank one hit, DIVE and then rest to GUARANTEED WIN, by winning Skill and Body.

252+ Atk Machamp Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 132 Def Swampert: 170-201 (42 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Latios Psychic vs. 252 HP / 32 SpD Swampert: 170-201 (42 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Run ended @ 98. QC Gengar critical hit Tyranitar. AI Gengar QC psychic'ed my Gengar before it could Destiny Bond. Swampert gets smashed by Giga drain.

Consistent Threats
Most QC users- Slowking, Slowbro, Haxdon
Bulky water grounds like Swampert
Swampert is vulnerable to critical hits.
Metagross in 1st/2nd slot.
Kingdra

https://kapwi.ng/c/cowzN33d

https://pokepast.es/bb8126ff8a5767c2

 

[Actaeon]

Doing a writeup on an Open Level Arena Team submenceisop and I made, utilizing Tyranitar. Starting out with the "J. W. Hardin Salac Tyranitar" from the Gligar team that left good impressions, we went through an amazingly long sequence of coming up with ideas, testing, failing and repeating, constantly trying to monitor what should really stay and what not. Emulation was vital here. Sometimes we just completely overhauled the whole team and started from scratch again. It's very hard to test Arena teams for the efficiency of the "cursed" third member, because if all goes well you shouldn't see it enter the field too often anyway.

I'll leave it to submenceisop to write about the notable 98 streak he achieved with the team. This might look unimpressive when you look at Level 50 records ("God Lax" is a luxury we can't afford in Open Level), but keep in mind this is the haxy and unforgiving Arena we're talking about, and it gets even worse with Dragonite and, most of all, Tyranitar joining the club of opponents.

Anyway, here's the team (using my nicknames here but I think submenceisop will use different ones):

GUNSLINGER (Tyranitar) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 212 HP / 92 Atk / 200 Spe
IVs: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 30 Def / 21 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power Rock
- Earthquake
- Brick Break / Double-Edge

What used to be a Special "J.W. Hardin" Tar, a (physical) SubSalacTar and some things in between, eventually became good old DDTar for a very simple reason: sweeping potential and the flexibility of getting the greedy 3-0 against leads that let you. HP[Rock] and EQ are staples on Tyranitar for a reason, but the last move was, and remains, up to debate. Brick Break guarantees the victory against Greta in the first place, but also lets Tyranitar use opposing Tyranitar as a setup bait, greatly improves the sweep against Normal-types and generally is a very good weapon against the otherwise very dangerous (Curse)Lax and Blissey. The alternative Double-Edge, which is not really on the final version that was used, is more of a general-purpose hole-blower against the likes of bulky (Ground-/)waters, Claydol and Fighting-types, making all of them easier to revenge kill for Gengar. Its power is also enormous after a couple of Dragon Dances, of course. Also gives flexibility in playing around with your own HP. For example, D-E allows you to KO yourself with recoil in order to prevent a Double Team.

EV-wise, this survives Rhydon's EQ and ofc everything below it on the physical side. On the special side, it lives all Surfs and has 25% chance to live through Kingdra's Hydro Pump. It outspeeds Kingdra, however, so usually we'll able to hit it twice and the real danger lies in the more defensive Surf/Rest set anyway, since that can Rest up and be very difficult for Gengar to revenge kill.

BELL WITCH (Gengar) (F) @ Magnet
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Substitute / Giga Drain
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch

Gengar is a very centralizing Pokemon in Arena. There has been enough info on this set already IMO. Finishes/revenges whatever Tyranitar leaves behind, has good defensive synergy with Tar and is even more dangerous offensively because of Sandstorm and Substitute, making it able to stall some damage before delivering the finish blow with Magnet Thunderbolt. Can also 2HKO a lot of things behind a Substitute, so when you get that for free you usually win. Finally it tries to guarantee wins by dragging down opponents when it's through. It's a great damage control Pokemon and one of the most reliable, fast strategies the Arena has to offer.

Giga Drain over Substitute is a rather bold, but possible replacement: it deals with those Swamperts and Quagsire that can prove to be problematic, gives you playing room with your HP against more passive opponents like Shuckle, squeezing out Body sometimes. It's quite difficult to improve on the general utility of Substitute, but Giga Drain (esp with BB on Tyranitar) works well enough to mention.

The set is simple: needs all the SpA it can get because Tbolt is already a roll on some stuff, even in Sand. OHKOs Charizard and offensive Starmie after 2 rounds of sand, which you can always get because they also receive Sand damage at the beginning of an 'inning'. 216 brings it to the blessed 341 Speed tier, outspeeding Sceptile/Dugtrio, and 40 HP gives it 271 HP, a number which is 15 modulo 16, minimizing its own procentual Sandstorm damage and granting it the bulk to usually NOT die to Whiscash Ice Beam x2 by Sand instead of Destiny Bond.

SHOOTOUT (Swampert) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 132 Def / 32 SpD / 4 Spe
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
- Dive
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Rest

Swampert has so many options it drives you crazy, so let's save the reader of going through this process. To put it very straightforward: we needed a Pokemon that can 1v1 a lot of things (because after Dbond you never exactly know what's coming), have some kind of potential to beat more than one Pokemon if we get behind somehow, AND is not hindered by Sandstorm; preferably makes use of it, even.

Well this is it. Dive + Rest wins Skill and Body against suitable opponents, so that's the "sweeping potential", because it leaves Swampert rinsed and ready for the next if it works. Earthquake is a general "armwrestling" move and beats stuff like Machamp even barring hax. Finally Ice Beam is just great for type coverage and 2HKOs/3HKOs the things it's supposed to in sand.

Swampert is bulky enough to live a crit Cross Chop (or two normal ones, because otherwise you lose anyway) and two 252+ Latios Psychics, so you can IB + IB + Rest and win the judging against it.

Swampert is extremely balanced and while there's nothing better for this spot, it's certainly isn't a particularly good Pokemon, and therefore can't always be relied on. The plan is to win with Tyranitar + Gengar, and Swampert's luck/frequency will probably dictate how far the average streak will go.

Finally, here's some fun extra benefits you get from Sandstorm!

• Scouts sets for free, in particular if they have Leftovers
• In Sandstorm, a "normally charged" STAB Solarbeam doesn't OHKO Swampert (if they use Sunny Day though, you're toast)
• Sometimes against Double Team spammers you can just win without even touching them at all
• Improves a plethora of "one-shot" damage calcs by 12.5% in damage because they get hit at start of an inning and the end of the first turn. This allows for more bulk which we have greatly abused throughout testing.

I will leave some details, because I know submenceisop is going to post about this, and his streak achievement, as well. He will probably give some more details about the final changes to the team.

EDIT: we seemed to post around the same time, haha. Will leave this unchanged though; better more info than not enough.

 

[justonepost]

I didn't delete any post so I have no idea what you are saying. Kommo-os post summed up what I wanted to say pretty much. Thus I didn't respond to your last post because I didn't see the need to. Honestly don't know why your trying to call me out on anything because I didn't respond at all. I didn't take anything personally so honestly I'm more confused now with your current double posts. Just interesting how you are trying to say I'm upset or something with no backing up to that claim.
From your previous post you seemed to take it personally when it was normal criticism and were alluding to your name and not posting anymore. Good to know you didn't and actually decided to keep posting.
Anyways have a good day

This is where you're still wrong. Chesto + Rest is what lets Gyarados set up all the way to +6 on teams that can take advantage of Gyarados' bulk and Intimidate ability. Don't really try to force a narrative where Gyarados can sweep everything on its own. Thunderpunch + Thunderbolt are still common moves on Pokemon such as Starmie, Alakazam, Jolteon (who still outspeeds at +1 unless you're running Jolly), Hypno, Lanturn, Slaking, Gengar and Porygon 2 (just to name a few). Gyarados has the advantage of setting up on Water types that rely on Ice Beam as a coverage move, but it is still far from being "overpowered" or "invincible." Brightpowder won't save you from a loss against these Pokemon while Lum Berry will save you from a Thunder Wave, a random burn from a fire attack or a freeze. 10% chance of missing is not good enough to be relied upon.

From many perspectives, Bright Powder shouldn't be considered an item considering for various reasons: Leftovers lets you recover the lost health from a Substitute. Lum Berry prevents paralysis from stopping your sweep. Chesto Berry helps a defensive DD Gyarados recover lost health and set up multiple times. There's plenty of items that are much more useful than relying on a 10% chance of evading an attack.



Breloom might have been an unexplored Pokemon on the forum, but it's a very far cry from being a "top tier" Pokemon. You're mostly assuming from the perspective that you will pull out a Spore but when you consider its base 70 Speed, there's plenty of faster Pokemon like Aerodactyl, Starmie, Entei, Charizard, Moltres, Zapdos, Alakazam, Salamence, Lati@s and Crobat who will outspeed Breloom and OHKO with their STAB before it even does something. There is no doubt that Focus Punch + Spore + Substitute is a good strategy but it only works if the opponent is a Pokemon that Breloom can cripple. While you can rely on teammates to cover its weaknesses, Breloom has common weaknesses to Fire, Flying, Psychic, Ice and Poison. Having 5 weaknesses is hard to balance on team-building because it will eventually overlap one of them with another teammate. While the average of sleep turns might be 3, you're forgetting that this is not guaranteed. If you're up against a faster opponent who only gets 1 or 2 turns of sleep, Breloom is dead. An slower opponent who consistently gets less than 3 turns of sleep, will break your sub and Breloom can't recover its lost health. Luck is still a factor and Breloom can't clean teams on its own. I should also mention that there is a good amount of Pokemon that can carry a Chesto or a Lum Berry which will ruin the Breloom strategy.



Hard disagree on this. If your Latios has extremely bad IVs and nature, you're much better going with Starmie. Great speed tier, two fantastic STABs and good coverage. While I can agree that Starmie had a hard time against neutral targets, this doesn't makes it a bad Pokemon. Latios would still need turns to set up Calm Minds which can lead to crits or unexpected hax.



Scizor has no STAB on this generation other than Steel Wing. It's one of those Pokemon that rely on a Hidden Power to be effective (which based on your posts, it goes against what you're looking for) , so how it is a better Pokemon than Skarm? How are both even comparable? It seems you somehow have an agenda against Skarmory, which is one of the best Pokemon to use here. Don't know why you'd like to insist it is a bad Pokemon to use. Would you be able to show us why something like Scizor would be a much better Pokemon to use than Skarmory?

I was the one who didn't delete his fist post. (I think it's a little bit to edgy). Sorry that i thought that you deleted your post.
I didn't wanted to call you out, i just thought it is funny, that i always respond to the two of you.
Prior I thought Gyarados would be the only Rest Pokemon that doesn't hold a Chesto Berry. But you're right, Chesto is always better. I never called the first rubric overpowered or invincible, that was my team.
In my opinion Bright Powder is a good item, it got even ban rules against it. I think Scizor is much better, because it has only 1 weakness and also many resistances.
The only problem is that it's attacks are weak. With the set Chesto Berry: Swords Dance, Agility, Rest, Baton Pass it circumvents this problem. In addition through Rest it can completely set up easily.
Still i don't think Skarmory is especially good, but i respect your opinion and i will leave it be.
If you are wondering about Smeargle, i think it is better than Breloom, therefore i replaced it. Possible Team: Grumpig, Smeargle, Salamence.
This will be my last post, but i think the tier list has already become quite good. Thanks again for your help, it was a very interesting conversation.

 

[Da Funky Dragonfly]

Hey everyone. I think we all agree that OPEN LEVEL is the supreme discipline in battle tower singles. At least that’s my humble opinion since the only purpose of avoiding tyranitar and dragonite is lowering one’s level of difficulty. Anyways, it was my motivation to build a strong team for open level. I felt very inspired by all the creative teams you kept posting in this thread. I experimented a lot with your ideas, and what I ended up with, is a team that – in my view – has no real weakness and can beat any record given.

The choice of my 3 team members feels so obvious to me, I am surprised that no one else has come up with this exact team before (as far as I know).

Team

Latias (at) Lum Berry
Bold nature
300 Speed, max HP, rest Def
Moves: Thunder Wave/Charm/Roar/Recover

Suicune (at) Leftovers
Bold nature
207 Speed, 404 HP, rest Def
Moves: Surf/Substitute/Calm Mind/Rest

Snorlax (at) Chesto Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Adamant nature
100 speed, max SDef, rest HP
Moves: Return/Amnesia/Curse/Rest

General strategy

I have to admit I learned a lot form ThrownAway ’s post. This Latias is incredible, it’s hard to find any words to describe it’s effectiveness. Also, Roar fits just perfectly on this team as it lets me choose the opp I want to set up on.

The normal scenario obviously works like this: Cripple opp, set up with cune and sweep.

There are some general rules I follow against opp’s starter:
- usually I use Thunder Wave to see what set they are using to then make further decisions
- against strong physical attackers I use Charm (esp. normal, rock and fighting types)
- against potential Exlposion users I use Charm
- if they reveal Curse or Dragon Dance, I use Charm to stall them out of PP
- if they reveal Calm Mind, I roar
- if they reveal Sword Dance, I roar
- if they potentially know a fast OHKO move (Dugtrio, QC users), I roar turn 1
- against metagross I TW turn 1, roar turn 2 even if latias is defeated. It’s my best bet since I cannot risk losing cune to Explosion

Step 2 is either stalling out of PP or setting up:
- if possible I set up with cune ASAP if opp is harmless to cune
- if opp knows electric or grass moves that hinder cune from setting up, I keep PP stalling with Latias to then set up with cune
- if opp knows a strong electric or grass move AND a super effective move against Latias (Starmie, Lapras, Latias, Tyranitar 1/2/4, Dragonite etc.), I set up lax

Clearly, setting up lax is only my second choice as there are more potentially dangerous scenarios
- I obviously make sure to stay out of CH range while setting up
- if second/third opp is potential Psych-Up user (Metagross, Registeel) I switch out

Strategy against Anabel:
- TW turn 1, TW turn 2, Roar turn 3 (worst case Latias is at around 50%)
- if Snorlax comes out, stall out of Curse, set up, sweep (worst case I can pull of only 1 Charm which is enough to set up my own Lax)
- if Latios comes out, TW (until paralyzed), go to Lax, Amnesia until +6, Curse once, Return twice (2HKO thanks to Adamant nature); then up against Raikou Curse until +4, sweep

One of the things I like most about the team is that Tyranitar lead poses no threat whatsoever but is safe set up fodder for either cune or lax depending on the set.

Streak

I am playing on VBA ROM. Like for everyone else playing ROMs it would be easy to do soft resets. I did not. I currently have 700 wins, streak ongoing. However, I am planning to get the team on Emerald cartridge and get the record on my GBA. In my view, this is the only way to prove that a record is real. IMHO records on ROM should not be eligible to the leaderboards but that’s up to you.

Final thoughts

I suggest you try this team yourselves. It's easy to play and most of all it's a lot of fun. Like I mentionned in the beginning of this post, the team is no big innovation, and yet, it's the best team I can imagine for battle tower. I honestly can't think of a team with a higher potential. Sky is the limit for this one. Looking forward to breaking some records.

 

[Adedede]

Da Funky Dragonfly Hi, I just want to share some thoughts about your last post:

I am playing on VBA ROM. Like for everyone else playing ROMs it would be easy to do soft resets. I did not. I currently have 700 wins, streak ongoing. However, I am planning to get the team on Emerald cartridge and get the record on my GBA. In my view, this is the only way to prove that a record is real. IMHO records on ROM should not be eligible to the leaderboards but that’s up to you.

This was a pretty open argument back in days, but definitely not for the reasons you've mentioned.
It's possible and really easy to soft reset even on cartridge thanks to an R4 with a DS, so playing on Emulator or on cartridge doesn't add anything to a streak validity, while providing consistent contents, updates, replays and analysis of a team does indeed!
The only issue is the speed of the fight: on Emu a player can speed up the battles, and while it doesn't affect a streak validity, it can be seen as detrimental for cartridge player (especially in close runs for a record).

I honestly can't think of a team with a higher potential. Sky is the limit for this one.

While this team, as all of the archetypes with Charm Latias lead + 2 sweepers, is definitely strong indeed, your specific version is far from being perfect.
Latias lead is really prone to be haxed down by really an almost infinite list of threats (and I know it since I've played more than 600 games with it): every special attacker can just avoid Thunder Wave thanks to Bright Powder/Lum Berry and then kill Latias with a CH, while almost any QC activation can be deadly, not just from strong Physical hitters but especially from OHKO users (and you have a slow team, with no Sturdy users: it is bold to claim that a team has no weaknesses while QC Sheer Cold is covered just hoping to Substitute first every time with Suicune).

That said, your choice of sweeper is pretty unreliable, since none of them can boost their speed, Suicune has just an attacking move that has Immunities and Snorlax has to always attempt to set up and sweep without Substitutes up (and CHs will destroy it in the 2 processes sooner or later) and, again, with a single attack with Immunities.
Snorlax in particular is definitely a subpar choice, it can't really be a reliable pick for an "unfair" team: if you look at Kommo-o 's team, which in my opinion is an optimized version of this same archetype, Registeel was screwed a lot of times by bad-timed CHs due to being slow, and it even had Substitute in its moveset!
What I'm saying is that you have always to risk Latias crippling dangerous opponent leads (always allowing her to be sacked against a huge list of threats: QC, every special attacker with Ice-Dragon-Dark coverage - and they're a lot -, CHs, every OHKO user, Heracross and so on), while the reward for this potential sack is just to setup a slow(!) sweeper that can always be forced out by really a lot of stuff (Snorlax at -6 Spe should basically be forced out by everything faster that can OHKO it with a CH! That's the standard of "safety plan" my current team requires, and I don't have to blindly risk my lead a lot as the chosen gameplan).

What I'm saying is that this team is definitely part of a "new wave" of Tower approach: recent stall and cripple strategies are great, and this team is really good too, but it's far from being perfect and I think that an optimized version of yours already is on the leaderboard!

the only purpose of avoiding tyranitar and dragonite is lowering one’s level of difficulty

This is a p.s. and a personal thought on my team! What you said it's partially true, but my current team for example is arguably better tailored for the Open Lv.: I've recently tried and studied for Open, and while Sand Stream on Tyranitar is annoying in stalling wars, the following reduced % of Metagross appearance is the biggest bonus my team can really get, while there's no single Tyranitar or Dragonite set that IRIDESCENCE cannot handle.
I've decided to play it at 50 for 2 main reasons: in latter gens the Tower is already set at this lv. and so I preferred to play this way, and also I already had the Open record and I wanted to try the other option. In fact, my Open record was done with a definitely better suited for lv.50 team, given its huge Tyranitar weakness.
Probably, after reaching my goal at 50, it should be interesting to try and optimize it for Open Lv. and give it a shot too!
By the way, I really think that new wave teams like yours are better than my old Dance Macabre in a long run, so I really hope that new players will take the lead on Open Lv. soon ...just before my new attempt at it then, because if it's not clear I'm a very competitive guy ;)

 

[Kommo-o]

Hey everyone. I think we all agree that OPEN LEVEL is the supreme discipline in battle tower singles. At least that’s my humble opinion since the only purpose of avoiding tyranitar and dragonite is lowering one’s level of difficulty. Anyways, it was my motivation to build a strong team for open level. I felt very inspired by all the creative teams you kept posting in this thread. I experimented a lot with your ideas, and what I ended up with, is a team that – in my view – has no real weakness and can beat any record given.

The choice of my 3 team members feels so obvious to me, I am surprised that no one else has come up with this exact team before (as far as I know).

Team

Latias (at) Lum Berry
Bold nature
300 Speed, max HP, rest Def
Moves: Thunder Wave/Charm/Roar/Recover

Suicune (at) Leftovers
Bold nature
207 Speed, 404 HP, rest Def
Moves: Surf/Substitute/Calm Mind/Rest

Snorlax (at) Chesto Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Adamant nature
100 speed, max SDef, rest HP
Moves: Return/Amnesia/Curse/Rest

General strategy

I have to admit I learned a lot form ThrownAway ’s post. This Latias is incredible, it’s hard to find any words to describe it’s effectiveness. Also, Roar fits just perfectly on this team as it lets me choose the opp I want to set up on.

The normal scenario obviously works like this: Cripple opp, set up with cune and sweep.

There are some general rules I follow against opp’s starter:
- usually I use Thunder Wave to see what set they are using to then make further decisions
- against strong physical attackers I use Charm (esp. normal, rock and fighting types)
- against potential Exlposion users I use Charm
- if they reveal Curse or Dragon Dance, I use Charm to stall them out of PP
- if they reveal Calm Mind, I roar
- if they reveal Sword Dance, I roar
- if they potentially know a fast OHKO move (Dugtrio, QC users), I roar turn 1
- against metagross I TW turn 1, roar turn 2 even if latias is defeated. It’s my best bet since I cannot risk losing cune to Explosion

Step 2 is either stalling out of PP or setting up:
- if possible I set up with cune ASAP if opp is harmless to cune
- if opp knows electric or grass moves that hinder cune from setting up, I keep PP stalling with Latias to then set up with cune
- if opp knows a strong electric or grass move AND a super effective move against Latias (Starmie, Lapras, Latias, Tyranitar 1/2/4, Dragonite etc.), I set up lax

Clearly, setting up lax is only my second choice as there are more potentially dangerous scenarios
- I obviously make sure to stay out of CH range while setting up
- if second/third opp is potential Psych-Up user (Metagross, Registeel) I switch out

Strategy against Anabel:
- TW turn 1, TW turn 2, Roar turn 3 (worst case Latias is at around 50%)
- if Snorlax comes out, stall out of Curse, set up, sweep (worst case I can pull of only 1 Charm which is enough to set up my own Lax)
- if Latios comes out, TW (until paralyzed), go to Lax, Amnesia until +6, Curse once, Return twice (2HKO thanks to Adamant nature); then up against Raikou Curse until +4, sweep

One of the things I like most about the team is that Tyranitar lead poses no threat whatsoever but is safe set up fodder for either cune or lax depending on the set.

Streak

I am playing on VBA ROM. Like for everyone else playing ROMs it would be easy to do soft resets. I did not. I currently have 700 wins, streak ongoing. However, I am planning to get the team on Emerald cartridge and get the record on my GBA. In my view, this is the only way to prove that a record is real. IMHO records on ROM should not be eligible to the leaderboards but that’s up to you.

Final thoughts

I suggest you try this team yourselves. It's easy to play and most of all it's a lot of fun. Like I mentionned in the beginning of this post, the team is no big innovation, and yet, it's the best team I can imagine for battle tower. I honestly can't think of a team with a higher potential. Sky is the limit for this one. Looking forward to breaking some records.

I am genuinely curious about many things about this "streak" specially because the numbers are big and it has surprised other people in here as well (including myself). You make a very big claim on assuring that this team has no weaknesses when it actually has a lot that can be easily detected and a very few glaring ones. Is this the reason why you didn't bothered making a threatlist, because the team is so invincible, it can beat anything that is on front of it?

Even the most successful teams made by Adedede, submenceisop and me have a list with various Pokemon that can threaten our teams because of the RNG factor, unpredictability, offensive and defensive ability. Even ThrownAway has listed Tyranitar as one of the biggest threats on his team due to how unpredictable it is since it can run crippler, physical or special sets which can cause trouble to various Pokemon if you miss-predict the wrong set. I'm sure he would've mentioned more threats given the time since no team is perfect.

You mention that you always Charm against physical attackers but what about Clear Body Pokemon? I can see that you Thunder Wave and then Roar because you are afraid of Explosion, but what about Regirock? It can also carry Explosion and it cannot be Charmed. There is also Steelix who commonly carries Quick Claw and it can explode on Latias before it even pulls out a Charm. You mentioned Metagross but you also didn't covered the fact that Metagross can run mixed sets and hit Suicune super-effectively with Thunderpunch. Crits from Thunderpunch can easily make set-up difficult for Suicune while also having the chance to paralyze it and bring it down with hax.

I should also mention STAB Dragon users that can make Latias incapable of crippling. Latios 1 has STAB Dragon Claw and a Lum Berry to heal its paralysis. In hindsight, isn't it risky to switch into Snorlax considering that it can pressure it to Rest early if it gets hit by a critical hit STAB? Not to mention that with some luck, Latios can get some Sp. Def drops on Snorlax and beat it 1-v-1. Without Snorlax, Suicune and Latias can't beat it. There is also Salamence 7 who has a Lum Berry, carries both STAB Dragon Claw and a super-effective Brick Break to hit Snorlax with. How exactly do you set up if it manages to get a critical hit on Latias?

Another point I'd like to raise is the fact that you decided to go with Snorlax as your secondary sweeper. The main reason why sweepers like Registeel, Tyranitar or even Salamence are used is because their STABs have no immunities. You're relying on two sweepers who have at least one immunity to their attacks and both are only using one single move. This will pretty much force you to lose momentum and switch out if the next Pokemon is immune to it. If you had to sacrifice Latias to set up, how is it worthwhile to run two attackers that can throw away your work with the wrong Pokemon in front? I find baffling that you're not taking into consideration this when Pokemon like Skarmory, Regirock and Misdreavus block Snorlax (special mention to the latter who also carries Thunderbolt to hit Suicune super-effectively).

Is your invincible team immune to OHKO moves? Mine wasn't and it was a huge threat to my team since I wasn't carrying Sturdy. While Suicune can Substitute and avoid some of them, you are at risk of Walrein 3 activating its QC and hitting you with a Sheer Cold. How are Latias and Snorlax beating Walrein if this happens? Not to mention that Lapras 8 poses a similar threat, but worse: It has Quick Claw and its moveset consist of Sing, Attract, Horn Drill and Sheer Cold. If Lapras manages to get a quick OHKO on Latias, how is Suicune dealing with it when QC is still an incredible threat to SubCune since you're at risk of getting OHKO'd on a QC turn before setting up the Sub.

Lastly, I would like to touch another point that also concerns me. Isn't Heracross 2 a huge concern to your team? It has a Lum Berry which means that it can heal itself from the paralysis and if you paralyze it, you're at the risk of increasing its attack output with Guts. While Charm can help make its attack useless, a critical hit will straight OHKO it. If it's the opposite gender, it can also cripple Latias with Attract which means that you will be forced to swap into Suicune or Snorlax and eat a STAB Megahorn on the process or at the risk of Heracross setting up Bulk Ups.

I can go on and add additional threats that I can see being troublesome to this team but I will just leave there because I'd like to address the main ones I was able to recognize in the spot. In short, I would like to know why you believe this team can beat anything on the Battle Tower, specially in Open Level where you believe it has a higher skill level. I genuinely doubt you have never encountered most of the Pokemon I mentioned, specially on a 700 win streak, when it's very likely that you have encountered most of the Pokemon I listed above. If you can expand your thoughts on what I listed and explain to the rest of us, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Adedede]

My top Pokemon for the Emerald Battle Frontier:

Quick Claw: Spore, Substitute, Belly Drum, Baton Pass
Choice Band: Double-Edge, Earthquake, Shadow Ball, Hyper Beam
Leftovers: Mirror Coat, Counter, Encore, Destiny Bond
Lum Berry: Dragon Dance, Earthquake, Aerial Ace, Rock Slide
Leftovers: Surf, Ice Beam, Recover, Refresh
Leftovers: Calm Mind, Recover, Dragon Claw, Charm
Lum Berry: Calm Mind, Psychic, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam
Leftovers: Earthquake, Ice Beam, Surf, Rest
Choice Band: Meteor Mash, Earthquake, Explosion, Agility
Salac Berry: Ability:Swarm: Swords Dance, Megahorn, Reversal, Endure
Chesto Berry: Dragon Dance, Rest, Earthquake, Body Slam; Endure, Flail
Choice Band: Ability:ThickFat: Trick, Torment, Reflect, Flash

Honorable mentions:
Leftovers: Rain Dance, Surf, Ice Beam, Giga Drain; Leech Seed, Toxic, Protect, Synthesis
Quick Claw: Spore, Substitute, Swords Dance, Focus Punch
Chesto Berry: Calm Mind, Rest, Psychic, Thunderbolt
Bright Powder: Substitute(Breeding:Kecleon), Belly Drum, Flail, Shadow Ball
Chesto Berry: Curse, Amnesia, Rest, Aerial Ace
Chesto Berry: Ability:Sturdy: Sand Attack, Rest, Thief, Whirlwind
Lum Berry: Ability:NaturalCure: Psychic, Surf, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt

Secondary:
Leftovers: Body Slam, Shadow Ball, Milk Drink, Heal Bell; Thunder Wave, Mud-Slap, Growl
Chesto Berry: Sand Attack, Rest, Earthquake, Rock Slide
Bright Powder: Swords Dance, Substitute, Baton Pass, Silver Wind

FireRed:
Chesto Berry: Calm Mind, Rest, Surf, Ice Beam (COL/XD)
Lum Berry: Double Team, Sand Attack/Curse/Charm, Moonlight, Baton Pass
Leftovers: Curse, Rest, Body Slam, Shadow Ball
Chesto Berry: Swords Dance, Agility, Rest, Baton Pass; Silver Wind, Steel Wing

FireRed honorable mentions:
Chesto Berry: Dragon Dance, Rest, Earthquake, Aerial Ace; Brick Break
Lum Berry: Reflect, Calm Mind, Thunderbolt, Crunch (COL/XD)
Leftovers: Ability:NaturalCure: Toxic, Seismic Toss, Soft-Boiled, Heal Bell

FireRed secondary:
Lum Berry: Dragon Dance, Rock Slide, Earthquake, Aerial Ace
Thick Club: Ability:RockHead: Swords Dance, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Double-Edge
Chesto Berry: Thunderbolt, Drill Peck, Rest, Thunder Wave

I know that a lot has been said on this post.
It's definitely important to have a lot of different voices in this thread, and we all encourage new players to approach to this game and be active on this channel.
The only thing that must be remembered in my opinion is the validity of what's posted.
The experience of a player on the Tower and on the Forum can help a lot of course in sharing helpful contents, but at the end of the day everyone should really interact here if it has something well studied, polite and interesting to say.

To have so, every statement must always be supported by 2 mandatory aspects: results, and clinical explanation of the results. That cannot be ignored because opinions are, in fact, just opinions.


Especially in a pretty big thread like this one has lately become (and I'm sincerely happy for this!), the quality check of the posts must be at the highest level.
Every newcomer is welcome, and it's our duty to show just quality contents. I think it always have to be clear if a post is a meme, a troll, or an actual competitive content, since otherwise we're not passing anything of our years of studies and development to new players, and this at my eyes is the worst thing a specific and competitive forum can do.

That said, I think that your "tierlist" is meaningless, and please, do not take it as a personal offense, I'll better explain myself: if you want to make such a list, you cannot just bypass set explanations, team compositions, facilities for the set (I mean, come on!).
This is just your opinion and, once again, it misses the 2 crucial points a valid content needs: backup studies and descriptions first, and results then!

To my eyes it's honestly clear why there's no better explanations for sets or results behind your post: because your list is really, completely subpar.
Sets like Quick Claw Smeargle, Choice Band Agility Metagross (once again, come on!!), Bright Powder Linoone are just unusable at all.

And now keep in mind, you don't have to reply personally to my comment! There's no personal attacks at all, but if you really think that what you wrote is right and I'm wrong, there a simple solution that I want you to take instead: argument, explain, bring calculations, replays, results from your set!
Once again, it's not a challenge at who has the sharpest answer: bringing the aformentioned contents is the only way a player like yourself has to prove himself right, and the other doubting wrong!





On the end of this post, I want to add a personal thought.
I've always thought that what I've just written already was clear in the thread. Just reading at posts from people who actually grinded a lot on this Frontier and held records, one can really see how valid posts are made and what it's required/asked by other people.
Don't get me wrong, we all started somewhere. But if someone made you notice what your post lacks to be useful for people (and we don't do this for money, it's all just about it: fun and sharing), ignoring those messages is not healthy.

I really don't want this post to sound kind of "elitary", because it's exactly the opposite! A lot of "new" players have come up with great ideas in the last times, and I've always been enthusiast about it. For example, I can clearly remember when wtset came up with a crazy Assist team; I felt like a child, starting to craft and theorymon potential evolutions of his idea!
My only concern now, what had really made me think "I have to answer to this", it's the fact that if I had read posts like this "useless list" (for the aformentioned reasons, nothing personal once again), instead of brilliant Kommo-o Azure article 3 years ago, I wouldn't probably be there today.
I'm kind of in debt to this community, and so I really want to help it develop in a positive and constructive way for everyone that still has to come.

 

[Adedede]

Hello everyone!
I have a big announcement to do: IRIDESCENCE HAS PASSED THE 3000 WINS MILESTONE!

In the live commented stream just ended on Discord, the team has reached 3003 wins in a row!

I'll probably post better updates and also the replay later, but now I just want first to thank a lot Actaeon , Kommo-o , dgice and all of the other great people on Discord that were helping me brainstorming, theorymoning and studying startegies and gameplans in this never-ending streak.
Also, thanks a lot to this community from the bottom of my heart, it always amazes me to see how people can be connected by such a unique hobby.
Keep the passion up!



What else to say... of course, as lately has been while playing and in a big portion of my life, IRIDESCENCE PLAYING SOFTLY IN THE BACKGROUND.

 

[YumaKuga]

Hello everyone!
I have a big announcement to do: IRIDESCENCE HAS PASSED THE 3000 WINS MILESTONE!

View attachment 360271


In the live commented stream just ended on Discord, the team has reached 3003 wins in a row!

View attachment 360272

I'll probably post better updates and also the replay later, but now I just want first to thank a lot Actaeon , Kommo-o , dgice and all of the other great people on Discord that were helping me brainstorming, theorymoning and studying startegies and gameplans in this never-ending streak.
Also, thanks a lot to this community from the bottom of my heart, it always amazes me to see how people can be connected by such a unique hobby.
Keep the passion up!



What else to say... of course, as lately has been while playing and in a big portion of my life, IRIDESCENCE PLAYING SOFTLY IN THE BACKGROUND.

Very nice! I feel like your post is even more fitting after the recent posts talking about one of the pokemon used on the team, Skarmory. Just goes to show how amazing it can contribute to a streak. I eagerly wait to see you obtain another 1k wins to add to this streak
Well done!

 

[Kommo-o]

Well, I took my time to polish the leaderboards a little while and updated some of the records as well. It goes without saying, congratulations to Adedede for reaching 3K wins and hope there is more to come!

I have also updated submenceisop's records and added his two new Tower streaks and his Arena streak on the leaderboard. I've also added Addri Trainer's Dome record into the leaderboard. Please let me know if I missed something and DM me so I can fix it.

I didn't made a lot of changes other than aesthetic ones, but the most visible one should be the fact that sub-records are now displaying below the highest record of each person. Credit goes to Eisenherz for making this work, from who I shamelessly stole his format, and it slaps really well on the forums. The main reason why I felt this change was needed was precisely to make it easier to find the other teams under one username. With the highest record on the top, the lower ones will be displayed below on a smaller font, which gives priority to that username's best team.

Once again, thanks to everyone for sharing and discussing! I really hope there is more to come!!

 

[Adedede]

Hello everyone!
I've just uploaded a new commented video with the fights that have brought IRIDESCENCE to 3010 wins!

Those have been the last battles from this run, since I've largely reached my goal: I just wanted to end with an Anabel Gold fight, as it was supposed to be!

Picture proof

While this team has already proven to be the most optimized one for Lv.50 Emerald Battle Tower, I think that the Open Level is still a pretty open puzzle and no squad had really perfomed that well there.

So, that's the main reason why I'm writing those lines.
I'm here to present you my next project: OPEN LEVEL IRIDESCENCE!
To do so, of course, after a lot of time I've had to go back again on teambuilder and calculator, studying mostly because of one single Pokémon that completely separates 50 from Open. Y'all know who I'm talking about, so here we are with...





Back To School: A TYRANITAR MASTERCLASS

This Pokémon is a beast, and it's definitely one of the biggest - if not the biggest - threat for a stall team at Open Level (sorry, Dragonite).
It has 10 sets, with every hax Item and a balanced distribution of Physical, Special and mixed ones, with great, strong overall coverage and amazing offensive Stats. If this still wasn't enough, it also has access to the most dangerous set-up move (Dragon Dance) and to the worst ability a stall team can face: Sand Stream.
In fact, the Sand Storm damage to my team is detrimental indeed, but not that threatening; the main issue is that if I have to phaze away a Tyranitar lead, the potential Sand damage on the following opponent will drastically reduce my time to setup, often not giving me enough room to completely set Latios at +6 Spa/+6 SpD behind a Substitute at almost full health as usual.


After this apocalyptic intro, I'll better analyze what's my gameplan against such a beast using the most useful format for my team, and so showing all of possible sets and dividing the strategy against every set in leading position, during Latios sweep, and after a potential phaze.
One last premise: I've decided to play it at Lv. 100.
I know that Lv. 60 offers the best offensive calcs for Latios, while my defensive core benefits the most from Lv.97, but at the end of the day the difference is minimal, and I really just want to approach to the Open Lv. as it was always intended in my mind: bring your best Pokémon at the max level and try to beat the Tower!


I'll start the real analysis showing all of possible Tyranitar's sets:

Tyranitar	4	Modest	Quick Claw	Crunch	Ice Beam	Thunderbolt	Flamethrower	Sand Stream	255/ 0 / 0 /255/ 0 / 0
Tyranitar	7	Adamant	Quick Claw	Rock Slide	Aerial Ace	Brick Break	Curse	Sand Stream	255/255/ 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Tyranitar	9	Hardy	Quick Claw	Crunch	Earthquake	Aerial Ace	Attract	Sand Stream	0 /255/ 0 /255/ 0 / 0
Tyranitar	8	Adamant	Lum Berry	Rock Slide	Thunder Wave	Dragon Dance	Rest	Sand Stream	170/ 0 /170/ 0 /170/ 0
Tyranitar	10	Adamant	Lum Berry	Double-Edge	Earthquake	Rock Slide	Dragon Dance	Sand Stream	170/ 0 /170/ 0 /170/ 0
Tyranitar	3	Adamant	Focus Band	Earthquake	Rock Slide	Counter	Dragon Dance	Sand Stream	170/ 0 /170/ 0 /170/ 0
Tyranitar	5	Adamant	Chesto Berry	Earthquake	Rock Slide	Dragon Dance	Rest	Sand Stream	170/ 0 /170/ 0 /170/ 0
Tyranitar	6	Adamant	Chesto Berry	Earthquake	Rock Slide	Curse	Rest	Sand Stream	170/ 0 /170/ 0 /170/ 0
Tyranitar	1	Hardy	BrightPowder	Earthquake	Aerial Ace	Thunderbolt	Surf	Sand Stream	0 /255/ 0 /255/ 0 / 0
Tyranitar	2	Hardy	BrightPowder	Earthquake	Rock Slide	Crunch	Thunderbolt	Sand Stream	0 /255/ 0 /255/ 0 / 0

First of all, if a Tyranitar appears during a fully set-up Latios sweep, that's not a big issue because of this specific SpA EVs investment:

+6 56 SpA Latios Dragon Claw vs. 170 HP / 170 SpD Tyranitar: 383-451 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This is the bulkiest spread, so if I manage to complete the set-up process, I have then just to fear a lot of BrightPowder triggers in a row. Moreover, the sets with BrightPowder (set 1 and set 2) have no set-up moves and they can be easily stalled out by a SkarmBliss core all day long if needed.


That said, here comes the troubles.
Of course, the most difficult part of a gameplan process is to decide the opening move(s) with my Skarmory in order to put me in the most advantageous position.
Against a lot of dangerous potential Physical set-up sweepers, I always open with Torment, not giving them a free turn to grab a boost; that's my gameplan against leading Armaldo, Marowak and Snorlax, for example.
Sadly, I cannot open with this move against Pokémon that can also carry mixed/Special sets.
Against Salamence, for example, I've always to scout with Protect mostly because of mixed set 7, that can open with Flamethrower vs. my Torment (outspeeding and OHKOing my Skarmory with a Critical Hit), and then the combination of Brick Break, Dragon Claw and Crunch can potentially destroy the rest of my team.
That's the same speech for Tyranitar: sets 1 and 2 (mixed) and set 4 (Special) have Thunderbolt, and I can't afford to lose Skarmory because of a potential Critical Hit on turn 1 while trying to land a Torment; that's it, just trying, because every aformentioned sets hold BrightPowder (set 1 and 2) or Quick Claw (set 4), so I'm not even sure that I'll hit!
If I lose Skarmory on turn 1 like this, I'd be in an awful spot, especially against the 2 mixed ones.


So, I have always to open with Protect.
Sets 1, 2, 4 and 9 are easy lead to exploit and set-up against, and they're easy to scout too.
In particular, set 1, 2 and 4 will always open with Thunderbolt (or Flamethrower in case of set 4), and so I've to switch into Blissey on turn 2 and better scout with Protect to detect if they also carry Physical coverage.
Set 9 will open with Crunch (or potentially Attract if it's Female), and then I can easily proceed to Torment and stall it out.

Now one must keep in mind that if the A.I. is a Physical attacker facing a Skarmory, and it also has a boosting move, it will ALWAYS go for it.
Opening with Protect against the "scariest sets" (sets 3, 5, 8, 10 have Dragon Dance, sets 6 and 7 have Curse) will always give them a free Atk boost, but here it comes the interesting part: before actually attacking, the A.I. will grab 2-3 boosts at least!
So I've tested it yet; Tyranitar 3/5/6/7/8/10 will always use Dragon Dance/Curse again on turn 2 against a full-health Skarmory!
That's a huge bonus in my strategy, because those sets don't have BrightPowder and so I'm 100% sure I can land a crucial Torment on turn 2 vs. a Tyranitar that has used Dragon Dance/Curse on my turn 1 Protect.
After the Torment, I know that on turn 3 (and at +2 Atk), they are forced to pick another move, and they'll always go for their best one: Rock Slide.
I've then just to Protect on turn 3.
What comes next on turn 4 is pretty straightforward looking at the sets:

• Sets 3/5/10 with Dragon Dance have just Earthquake (or a resisted Double-Edge for set 10) as the only other damaging move(s), so they'll go for another boost and I can phaze them out;
• Sets 6/7 will both use Curse on turn 1. While set 6 has just Earthquake as the only other damaging move, and so after a Torment I could just stall it out of Rock Slide PPs and then it's a free bait for Latios, sadly set 7 has 3 other attacking moves and Quick Claw too, so I have to phaze every Curse Tyranitar out on turn 4 (even if it means I could potentially lose a good bait, set 7 can easily go out of control after turn 6);
• Set 8 wins the award as the (potentially) most annoying one in leading spot. It has Dragon Dance as the previous ones and so I can't detect it before turn 4 (unless it reveals Thunder Wave before). This set has just Rock Slide as the only damaging move(!), so it's a great set-up bait for Latios, but if it behaves as set 3/5/10 in the first 3 turns I have to phaze it out then. Skarmory can even be paralyzed while using Whirlwind on turn 4, and a full-para would actually be good news: as said before, a Tormented Tyranitar that has happened to be a set 8 it's actually a free bait! The worst case scenario of course is to actually phaze it out on a Thunder Wave, facing then a scary 2nd foe with a paralyzed Skarmory (but at least I know there's an exploitable Tyranitar in opponent's team then).

To better sum up, my gameplan vs. a leading Tyranitar is the following one:

Turn 1: Skarmory uses Protect;
Turn 2: if sets 1/2/4, Blissey switches in; otherwise, Skarmory uses Torment;
Turn 3: if Blissey's in, Blissey uses Protect; otherwise, Skamory uses Protect;
Turn 4: if set 1/2/4 vs. Blissey, Blissey uses Substitute, if set 9, Blissey switches in; if set 8 has revealed Thunder Wave in the previous turns, proceed to stall Rock Slide PPs; otherwise, Skarmory uses Whirlwind.

That's the best gameplan I've come up with vs. Tyranitar's lead, but it's still a work in progress and it definitely needs more tests.



One last note is dedicated to what is at my eyes the scariest set: Tyranitar 10.
While vs. every other set, in a desperate scenario, I can try and stall it to let Latios set-up, this one is simply unmanageable: the combination of Dragon Dance plus 3 damaging moves, with the notorious recoil from Double-Edge, is just too much to handle.

This set never will be a set-up bait, at the risk of having my team completely shredded apart just before it'll die by its own recoil.
Moreover, as I've already said, one of my worst concern about a Tyranitar lead is that it also sets infinite Sand, often not giving Latios enough space to set up. In this case, I've to try and sweep with a weaker Latios, and if I've phazed out a set 10 on turn 4, I'll have to face it again then.
It has the bulkiest spread available (costing me a lot of SpA investment on Latios, as you've seen), but there's an important aspect to consider: while Double-Edge is a curse in a potential bait, it's also a blessing in those "last foe" scenarios, since this Tyranitar luckily has not enough HPs nor recovery moves or Items, and so it'll die by its own recoil before defeating my team!




That's all!
Sorry for the long writing, I hope it will be interesting!
I've just won my first Anabel Gold fight at Open Lv. with this new IRIDESCENCE; I'll post my team exportable and some better info soon, when it'll have some more wins under its belt.


A new adventure has just begun, stay tuned!

 

[wtset]

Hi, I haven't posted here in a long time, but I've been reading and enjoying the new stuff all of you are coming up with. And congrats Adedede for the 3k milestone :)

I've been going through all my old hard drives in the past few days and have found this little tool I made six years ago:
http://pos.internet-box.ch/movecombos/
It's essentially a tool that helps you find Pokemon that can learn certain move combinations. I thought it might be useful to some of you, since I've been looking for something like this as well when team-building for the frontier. I know there already exist similar tools on the internet, but the ones I know of are either very slow, don't work for Gen 3 or have some "bugs" (like not considering the movepools of pre-evos for example).

Disclaimer: The tool does not check for the legality of move combinations.

 

[P Mystery]

Hi, I haven't posted here in a long time, but I've been reading and enjoying the new stuff all of you are coming up with. And congrats Adedede for the 3k milestone :)

I've been going through all my old hard drives in the past few days and have found this little tool I made six years ago:
http://pos.internet-box.ch/movecombos/
It's essentially a tool that helps you find Pokemon that can learn certain move combinations. I thought it might be useful to some of you, since I've been looking for something like this as well when team-building for the frontier. I know there already exist similar tools on the internet, but the ones I know of are either very slow, don't work for Gen 3 or have some "bugs" (like not considering the movepools of pre-evos for example).

Disclaimer: The tool does not check for the legality of move combinations.

This is fantastic! Thanks!

 

[Actaeon]

Some time ago, I made another Python script to calculate the relative frequencies of all Pokemon in Battle Frontier. This is a problem more interesting than it seems, because of the following:

• Species Clause;
• Item Clause;
• Same trainers never appearing in the same streak.

While it would be an easy task to calculate all trainers' possible team combinations, assuming all trainers appear equally likely, and just count the relative frequencies, the third bullet makes the number of possible streaks explode and no program would be able to calculate the exact proportion anymore. As a solution, I made a Monte Carlo simulation of streaks of 7 trainers and did frequency analysis on that instead.

Of course, this frequency analysis yields different results for the first streak, second streak, third, etc, because they draw from different trainer pools. But the most interesting part is of course the post-49 trainer pool. These trainers have index numbers greater than 199.

In the spoiler below, we see the different Pokemon sets (in Level 50) along with a number. This number is a Monte Carlo estimation of the probability that any given non-boss streak will contain that Pokemon at least once. The number of streaks generated was 100.000. I hope this helps teambuilding!

Big spoiler -- watch out!

Gyarados 4​	0.112​
Swampert 4​	0.111​
Milotic 4​	0.111​
Ludicolo 4​	0.11​
Lapras 4​	0.107​
Shuckle 4​	0.105​
Slowking 4​	0.102​
Blissey 4​	0.102​
Xatu 4​	0.101​
Slowbro 4​	0.101​
Kingdra 4​	0.099​
Quagsire 4​	0.097​
Machamp 4​	0.097​
Flygon 4​	0.096​
Blastoise 4​	0.096​
Jolteon 4​	0.095​
Starmie 4​	0.094​
Feraligatr 4​	0.094​
Clefable 4​	0.092​
Hariyama 4​	0.091​
Tentacruel 4​	0.091​
Aerodactyl 4​	0.091​
Snorlax 4​	0.091​
Heracross 4​	0.09​
Umbreon 4​	0.09​
Flareon 4​	0.089​
Blaziken 4​	0.089​
Vaporeon 4​	0.088​
Whiscash 4​	0.087​
Charizard 4​	0.087​
Houndoom 4​	0.086​
Jynx 4​	0.085​
Espeon 4​	0.085​
Altaria 4​	0.082​
Lanturn 4​	0.081​
Armaldo 4​	0.08​
Dewgong 4​	0.079​
Exploud 4​	0.079​
Miltank 4​	0.079​
Walrein 4​	0.078​
Granbull 4​	0.077​
Wailord 4​	0.076​
Gardevoir 4​	0.076​
Medicham 4​	0.075​
Metagross 4​	0.075​
Golduck 4​	0.074​
Rapidash 4​	0.073​
Porygon2 4​	0.073​
Dusclops 4​	0.072​
Mr. Mime 4​	0.072​
Ninetales 4​	0.072​
Breloom 4​	0.071​
Vileplume 4​	0.069​
Nidoqueen 4​	0.069​
Ursaring 4​	0.069​
Charizard 1​	0.068​
Venusaur 4​	0.068​
Aggron 4​	0.068​
Aggron 2​	0.067​
Misdreavus 4​	0.067​
Marowak 4​	0.067​
Glalie 4​	0.067​
Steelix 1​	0.065​
Raichu 4​	0.065​
Cradily 4​	0.065​
Claydol 4​	0.065​
Blaziken 3​	0.064​
Scizor 4​	0.064​
Starmie 2​	0.063​
Metagross 3​	0.063​
Gengar 4​	0.063​
Typhlosion 4​	0.063​
Aerodactyl 2​	0.062​
Shiftry 4​	0.062​
Ampharos 4​	0.062​
Steelix 4​	0.062​
Nidoking 4​	0.061​
Salamence 4​	0.061​
Blaziken 1​	0.06​
Machamp 1​	0.059​
Machamp 2​	0.059​
Rhydon 4​	0.059​
Starmie 1​	0.058​
Heracross 2​	0.058​
Aerodactyl 3​	0.058​
Tauros 4​	0.058​
Slaking 4​	0.058​
Aerodactyl 1​	0.057​
Kangaskhan 4​	0.057​
Charizard 2​	0.056​
Metagross 2​	0.056​
Alakazam 4​	0.056​
Slowbro 1​	0.055​
Metagross 1​	0.055​
Medicham 2​	0.055​
Blaziken 2​	0.054​
Dodrio 4​	0.054​
Aggron 3​	0.053​
Charizard 3​	0.053​
Exeggutor 4​	0.053​
Meganium 4​	0.053​
Metagross 7​	0.053​
Venusaur 1​	0.052​
Dugtrio 4​	0.052​
Forretress 4​	0.052​
Magmar 4​	0.052​
Regirock 1​	0.052​
Machamp 7​	0.052​
Registeel 6​	0.052​
Jynx 1​	0.051​
Ampharos 1​	0.051​
Steelix 2​	0.051​
Skarmory 4​	0.051​
Arcanine 4​	0.051​
Starmie 6​	0.051​
Lanturn 1​	0.05​
Slowking 2​	0.05​
Heracross 3​	0.05​
Lapras 3​	0.05​
Gyarados 3​	0.05​
Gyarados 1​	0.049​
Starmie 3​	0.049​
Sceptile 4​	0.049​
Machamp 5​	0.049​
Latias 6​	0.049​
Shuckle 1​	0.048​
Gyarados 2​	0.048​
Weezing 4​	0.048​
Crobat 4​	0.048​
Regice 3​	0.048​
Machamp 6​	0.048​
Machamp 8​	0.048​
Starmie 7​	0.048​
Breloom 1​	0.047​
Typhlosion 1​	0.047​
Espeon 2​	0.047​
Slowbro 3​	0.047​
Salamence 3​	0.047​
Golem 4​	0.047​
Registeel 4​	0.047​
Starmie 8​	0.047​
Medicham 1​	0.046​
Hariyama 1​	0.046​
Blastoise 1​	0.046​
Lapras 1​	0.046​
Medicham 3​	0.046​
Jynx 3​	0.046​
Breloom 3​	0.046​
Nidoking 3​	0.046​
Shuckle 3​	0.046​
Victreebel 4​	0.046​
Regice 4​	0.046​
Regirock 5​	0.046​
Sharpedo 2​	0.045​
Absol 2​	0.045​
Heracross 1​	0.045​
Flygon 2​	0.045​
Houndoom 3​	0.045​
Swampert 3​	0.045​
Regice 1​	0.045​
Moltres 2​	0.045​
Regirock 2​	0.045​
Moltres 4​	0.045​
Regirock 4​	0.045​
Starmie 5​	0.045​
Exeggutor 1​	0.044​
Feraligatr 1​	0.044​
Salamence 1​	0.044​
Hypno 4​	0.044​
Regirock 3​	0.044​
Zapdos 4​	0.044​
Regice 6​	0.044​
Xatu 1​	0.043​
Alakazam 1​	0.043​
Slowking 1​	0.043​
Armaldo 1​	0.043​
Cradily 2​	0.043​
Lapras 2​	0.043​
Cradily 3​	0.043​
Claydol 3​	0.043​
Registeel 3​	0.043​
Metagross 6​	0.043​
Houndoom 1​	0.042​
Aggron 1​	0.042​
Gardevoir 2​	0.042​
Umbreon 3​	0.042​
Electabuzz 4​	0.042​
Registeel 1​	0.042​
Regice 2​	0.042​
Registeel 2​	0.042​
Scizor 1​	0.041​
Tentacruel 1​	0.041​
Meganium 1​	0.041​
Breloom 2​	0.041​
Lanturn 3​	0.041​
Shiftry 3​	0.041​
Slowking 3​	0.041​
Scizor 3​	0.041​
Machamp 3​	0.041​
Glalie 1​	0.04​
Flareon 1​	0.04​
Espeon 1​	0.04​
Walrein 1​	0.04​
Jynx 2​	0.04​
Hariyama 2​	0.04​
Houndoom 2​	0.04​
Shuckle 2​	0.04​
Flareon 2​	0.04​
Swampert 2​	0.04​
Hariyama 3​	0.04​
Espeon 3​	0.04​
Donphan 4​	0.04​
Latias 3​	0.04​
Regirock 6​	0.04​
Latios 6​	0.04​
Misdreavus 1​	0.039​
Ludicolo 1​	0.039​
Nidoqueen 1​	0.039​
Swampert 1​	0.039​
Forretress 2​	0.039​
Rhydon 2​	0.039​
Nidoqueen 2​	0.039​
Nidoking 2​	0.039​
Xatu 3​	0.039​
Steelix 3​	0.039​
Typhlosion 3​	0.039​
Kingdra 3​	0.039​
Muk 4​	0.039​
Gardevoir 5​	0.039​
Regice 5​	0.039​
Registeel 5​	0.039​
Rhydon 1​	0.038​
Gengar 1​	0.038​
Jolteon 1​	0.038​
Kingdra 1​	0.038​
Slowbro 2​	0.038​
Alakazam 3​	0.038​
Gengar 3​	0.038​
Latios 3​	0.038​
Lapras 7​	0.038​
Umbreon 1​	0.037​
Milotic 2​	0.037​
Salamence 2​	0.037​
Raichu 3​	0.037​
Rapidash 3​	0.037​
Wailord 3​	0.037​
Venusaur 3​	0.037​
Moltres 3​	0.037​
Articuno 4​	0.037​
Metagross 5​	0.037​
Gardevoir 1​	0.036​
Vaporeon 1​	0.036​
Lanturn 2​	0.036​
Hypno 2​	0.036​
Gengar 2​	0.036​
Umbreon 2​	0.036​
Kingdra 2​	0.036​
Misdreavus 3​	0.036​
Forretress 3​	0.036​
Skarmory 3​	0.036​
Ludicolo 3​	0.036​
Rhydon 3​	0.036​
Flygon 3​	0.036​
Blastoise 3​	0.036​
Manectric 4​	0.036​
Forretress 1​	0.035​
Skarmory 1​	0.035​
Hypno 1​	0.035​
Misdreavus 2​	0.035​
Mr. Mime 2​	0.035​
Golem 2​	0.035​
Walrein 2​	0.035​
Nidoqueen 3​	0.035​
Meganium 3​	0.035​
Feraligatr 3​	0.035​
Electrode 4​	0.035​
Articuno 2​	0.035​
Zapdos 3​	0.035​
Metagross 8​	0.035​
Latias 8​	0.035​
Latios 8​	0.035​
Shiftry 1​	0.034​
Flygon 1​	0.034​
Xatu 2​	0.034​
Scizor 2​	0.034​
Wailord 2​	0.034​
Ninetales 2​	0.034​
Exeggutor 2​	0.034​
Feraligatr 2​	0.034​
Sceptile 2​	0.034​
Typhlosion 2​	0.034​
Arcanine 2​	0.034​
Walrein 3​	0.034​
Milotic 3​	0.034​
Fearow 4​	0.034​
Zapdos 1​	0.034​
Milotic 1​	0.033​
Marowak 2​	0.033​
Armaldo 2​	0.033​
Tentacruel 2​	0.033​
Venusaur 2​	0.033​
Blastoise 2​	0.033​
Mr. Mime 3​	0.033​
Marowak 3​	0.033​
Tentacruel 3​	0.033​
Gardevoir 3​	0.033​
Flareon 3​	0.033​
Articuno 1​	0.033​
Moltres 1​	0.033​
Articuno 3​	0.033​
Entei 4​	0.033​
Gardevoir 8​	0.033​
Lapras 8​	0.033​
Latios 5​	0.033​
Marowak 1​	0.032​
Nidoking 1​	0.032​
Alakazam 2​	0.032​
Ninetales 3​	0.032​
Zapdos 2​	0.032​
Latios 2​	0.032​
Raikou 3​	0.032​
Salamence 8​	0.032​
Cradily 1​	0.031​
Wailord 1​	0.031​
Crobat 1​	0.031​
Skarmory 2​	0.031​
Armaldo 3​	0.031​
Sceptile 3​	0.031​
Latias 2​	0.031​
Latias 4​	0.031​
Dewgong 1​	0.03​
Meganium 2​	0.03​
Exeggutor 3​	0.03​
Lapras 6​	0.03​
Latias 5​	0.03​
Dusclops 1​	0.029​
Altaria 1​	0.029​
Magmar 1​	0.029​
Rapidash 1​	0.029​
Ninetales 1​	0.029​
Sceptile 1​	0.029​
Manectric 2​	0.029​
Shiftry 2​	0.029​
Ludicolo 2​	0.029​
Vaporeon 2​	0.029​
Snorlax 2​	0.029​
Dusclops 3​	0.029​
Crobat 3​	0.029​
Gengar 5​	0.029​
Gengar 6​	0.029​
Gengar 7​	0.029​
Gengar 8​	0.029​
Lapras 5​	0.029​
Cloyster 2​	0.028​
Claydol 1​	0.028​
Snorlax 1​	0.028​
Arcanine 1​	0.028​
Dusclops 2​	0.028​
Claydol 2​	0.028​
Latias 1​	0.028​
Latios 1​	0.028​
Latios 4​	0.028​
Ursaring 5​	0.028​
Whiscash 1​	0.027​
Whiscash 3​	0.027​
Dewgong 3​	0.027​
Gardevoir 7​	0.027​
Latias 7​	0.027​
Latios 7​	0.027​
Dunsparce 2​	0.026​
Wigglytuff 2​	0.026​
Fearow 2​	0.026​
Glalie 2​	0.026​
Rapidash 2​	0.026​
Jolteon 2​	0.026​
Salamence 5​	0.026​
Salamence 6​	0.026​
Salamence 7​	0.026​
Porygon 2​	0.025​
Kecleon 2​	0.025​
Mr. Mime 1​	0.025​
Quagsire 1​	0.025​
Victreebel 1​	0.025​
Golem 1​	0.025​
Quagsire 2​	0.025​
Electrode 2​	0.025​
Electabuzz 2​	0.025​
Altaria 2​	0.025​
Crobat 2​	0.025​
Magmar 3​	0.025​
Ursaring 3​	0.025​
Raikou 1​	0.025​
Entei 1​	0.025​
Suicune 1​	0.025​
Suicune 2​	0.025​
Gardevoir 6​	0.025​
Wobbuffet 1​	0.024​
Vileplume 1​	0.024​
Exploud 2​	0.024​
Porygon2 2​	0.024​
Hypno 3​	0.024​
Golem 3​	0.024​
Vaporeon 3​	0.024​
Jolteon 3​	0.024​
Arcanine 3​	0.024​
Raikou 2​	0.024​
Entei 3​	0.024​
Raikou 4​	0.024​
Suicune 4​	0.024​
Wobbuffet 2​	0.023​
Ursaring 1​	0.023​
Donphan 1​	0.023​
Whiscash 2​	0.023​
Ursaring 2​	0.023​
Electrode 3​	0.023​
Entei 2​	0.023​
Suicune 3​	0.023​
Dewgong 2​	0.022​
Miltank 2​	0.022​
Magmar 2​	0.022​
Glalie 3​	0.022​
Snorlax 3​	0.022​
Chansey 2​	0.021​
Granbull 1​	0.021​
Electabuzz 1​	0.021​
Ampharos 2​	0.021​
Quagsire 3​	0.021​
Vileplume 3​	0.021​
Altaria 3​	0.021​
Victreebel 2​	0.02​
Miltank 3​	0.02​
Shedinja 1​	0.019​
Ninjask 1​	0.019​
Masquerain 2​	0.019​
Octillery 2​	0.019​
Pinsir 2​	0.019​
Muk 1​	0.019​
Vileplume 2​	0.019​
Weezing 2​	0.019​
Ampharos 3​	0.019​
Blissey 3​	0.019​
Delcatty 2​	0.018​
Parasect 2​	0.018​
Venomoth 2​	0.018​
Scyther 2​	0.018​
Dodrio 2​	0.018​
Kangaskhan 2​	0.018​
Golduck 2​	0.018​
Donphan 2​	0.018​
Victreebel 3​	0.018​
Golduck 3​	0.018​
Ursaring 6​	0.018​
Snorlax 8​	0.018​
Kingler 2​	0.017​
Dugtrio 1​	0.017​
Fearow 1​	0.017​
Dodrio 1​	0.017​
Miltank 1​	0.017​
Golduck 1​	0.017​
Blissey 1​	0.017​
Dugtrio 2​	0.017​
Muk 2​	0.017​
Dugtrio 3​	0.017​
Weezing 3​	0.017​
Donphan 3​	0.017​
Fearow 3​	0.016​
Manectric 3​	0.016​
Seaking 2​	0.015​
Crawdaunt 2​	0.015​
Weezing 1​	0.015​
Muk 3​	0.015​
Slaking 3​	0.015​
Sneasel 2​	0.014​
Relicanth 2​	0.014​
Manectric 1​	0.014​
Tauros 1​	0.014​
Granbull 2​	0.014​
Dodrio 3​	0.014​
Exploud 3​	0.014​
Snorlax 6​	0.014​
Ninjask 2​	0.013​
Slaking 1​	0.013​
Blissey 2​	0.013​
Kangaskhan 3​	0.013​
Tauros 3​	0.013​
Porygon2 3​	0.013​
Snorlax 5​	0.013​
Snorlax 7​	0.013​
Raichu 1​	0.012​
Exploud 1​	0.012​
Raichu 2​	0.012​
Tauros 2​	0.012​
Electabuzz 3​	0.012​
Ursaring 7​	0.012​
Ursaring 8​	0.012​
Zangoose 2​	0.011​
Mantine 2​	0.011​
Huntail 2​	0.011​
Gorebyss 2​	0.011​
Electrode 1​	0.011​
Kangaskhan 1​	0.011​
Clefable 2​	0.01​
Slaking 2​	0.01​
Granbull 3​	0.01​
Seviper 2​	0.009​
Clefable 1​	0.008​
Porygon2 1​	0.008​
Clefable 3​	0.008​
Pidgeot 2​	0.007​
Cacturne 2​	0.006​
Tropius 2​	0.005​
Sunflora 2​	0.004​
Jumpluff 2​	0.004​
Bellossom 2​	0.004​

 

[submenceisop]

As you can tell, I've tried Salamence with multiple different set ups. This time, I am using MEMENTO Gardevoir + Zapdos + Salamence. Shout out to all who have been watching me on stream. Especially Actaeon for his help optimizing the spread. I reached 273 wins... which makes it officially the best Gen 3 Salamence team!

Gardevoir Set Explanation.

View attachment 358291
Gardevoir (M)
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thief
- Thunder Wave
- Memento
- Icy-wind

1. Male for Attract Espeon. Also opposite Gender as Salamence
2. 132 speed. Outspeeds Latios & Latias (reaches 132 speed)
3. Lives a crit T-bolt from Raikou, avoids a 3ko on Starmie
4. Live Ursaring's Double edge
5. Does NOT avoid a Rhydon's Megahorn,

252+ Atk Rhydon Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Gardevoir: 185-218 (105.7 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

255+ SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir on a critical hit: 147-174 (84 - 99.4%)- Guaranteed 2ko

252+ SpA Starmie Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir: 67-79 (38.2 - 45.1%)

252+ Atk Ursaring Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Gardevoir: 138-163 (78.8 - 93.1%)

170 Atk Latios Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Gardevoir: 83-98 (47.4 - 56%)

Zapdos Set Explanation

For general purposes, Zapdos should run the 220 HP/ 62 Def/ 228 speed. This seems to be the most useful as a catch all situation.

View attachment 358293View attachment 361103
Zapdos @ Leftovers
IVs: 10 Atk / 30 Def
EVs: 220 HP / 34 Def / 28 SpD / 228 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Double Team

This Zapdos however, is ev’ed with memento in mind.

1. 193 HP for a leftovers number
2. 228 speed to out speed Espeon and Gengar
3. Tanks Modest Latios Dragon Claw after Memento.... 100% of the time... barring a critical hit of course.
4. Enough physical defence to tank Weezing's sludgebomb 100% of the time... most of the time for Muk.

-2 252+ SpA Latios Dragon Claw vs. 220 HP / 28 SpD Zapdos: 40-48 (20.7 - 24.8%)

-2 252+ SpA Latios Psychic vs. 220 HP / 28 SpD Zapdos: 45-54 (23.3 - 27.9%)

-2 252+ SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 220 HP / 28 SpD Zapdos: 32-38 (16.5 - 19.6%)

-2 252+ Atk Muk Sludge Bomb vs. 220 HP / 34 Def Zapdos: 41-49 (21.2 - 25.3%)

As you can see, Memento synergizes incredibly well, instead of relying on the inaccurate flash (which does not stack with double team).

Salamence Set Explanation

View attachment 358294View attachment 361104
Salamence (F) @ Lum Berry / Sharp Beak
IVs: 31 HP / 31 Attack / 31 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
EVs: 244 HP / 236 Atk / 14 Def / 16 Spe
Ability: Intimidate
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Dragon Dance

Meet "Salamandra".

1. Near Maximum HP Investment (244 HP Evs) 201 HP !!
2. 236 Atk for a 56.3% chance to ohko Zapdos.
3. 16 speed @ 30 speed iv
   • Out speed Slaking/Zapdos before a boost
   • Out speed Crobat/Jolteon @ +1
   • Rest in physical defense to tank struggles

The only thing that survives are Solrock /lunatone (which does not show up past 49), Zapdos (lives 43.7% of the time) and Skarmory. Curse Skarmory has a chance to avoid a 2ko (needs to minimum rolls or no crit).

Item choice

1. Lum helps in desperate situations when the set up gets ruined by explosion or QC.
2. Sharp Beak guarantees the Curse Skarm 2ko and Zapdos.

+6 236+ Atk Salamence Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 153-180 (92.7 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO. Guaranteed with Sharp Beak.

+6 236+ Atk Salamence Hidden Power Flying vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 100-118 (58.1 - 68.6%)
+6 236+ Atk Salamence Hidden Power Flying vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 67-79 (38.9 - 45.9%)

How to play this team.

Gardevoir's Role

1. Use Thief for potential QC users. Memento next turn.​
2. Thief into Memento on Absol 2​
3. Use Thief on Metagross. If you don't get crit, thunder wave it.​
4. Use Icy-Wind against faster Lum Berry targets (Starmie, Jolteon, Raikou, Gengar)​
5. Use Icy-wind against faster White herb Fires (Houndoom, Arcanine). Then Memento.​
6. Thunder wave potential Dragon dancers like Kingdra/Salamence/Gyarados​
7. Use Thunder wave on Crobat(dangerous if it crits shadowball, Aerodactyl), - just in case it gets an ancient power omni-boost.​
8. Memento straight away against targets you DON'T need to thief or provide speed control (Zapdos already out speeds)​
   1. Weezing/Dewgong/Electabuzz/ Espeon/ Flygon/ Medicham etc.​

Zapdos

1. Completely outstall the AI's moves and baton pass +6 evasion to Salamence

Salamence

1. Receive +6 Evasion from Zapdos
2. Set up 6 dragon dances on -3 struggles or earthquake .
3. Time to Sweep

*The evasion really helps Salamence set up safely with a good amount of heath. It also helps when fully set up. In situations such as focus band/qc or bright powder activations, Salamence can set up another substitute.

Metagross 4 Simulations Via Actaeon

CASE 0: ZAPDOS FAINTS BEFORE PASSING
CASE 1: ZAPDOS PASSES +6 EVASION
CASE 2: ZAPDOS PASSES BETWEEN +3 AND +5 EVASION
ZAPDOS VS PARALYZED, NON-QC METAGROSS4 USING TURN 2 DOUBLE TEAM ------------------------------------
Case 0 happens in 475 of the 10000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.044 0.052
Case 1 happens in 9353 of the 10000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.93 0.94
Case 2 happens in 242 of the 10000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.021 0.027

ZAPDOS VS HEALTHY, NON-QC METAGROSS4 USING TURN 2 DOUBLE TEAM ------------------------------------
Case 0 happens in 199 of the 1000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.175 0.225
Case 1 happens in 759 of the 1000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.732 0.784
Case 2 happens in 51 of the 1000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.039 0.066

ZAPDOS VS HEALTHY, NON-QC METAGROSS4 USING SUBTECT FROM THE START ------------------------------------
Case 0 happens in 686 of the 1000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.657 0.714
Case 1 happens in 309 of the 1000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.281 0.338
Case 2 happens in 8 of the 1000 simulations. 0.95 confidence interval: 0.004 0.016

The optimal play from the simulator via Actaeon is that you have to double team turn 2 versus Metagross 4.

https://pokepast.es/46c6eb1530803ee1

Update: I reached 378 wins with Salamence! I also provided an "overly detailed list of potential threats".

It can be simplified to QC users, explosion leads, METAGROSS 4-8, missing icy wind, or getting crit by QC physicals. Baton pass into a dangerous threat is also something to be wary about.

Potential Threat List (with set numbers!)

This list of things are all the things that "could" potentially screw me over. It looks worse than it is, but with the BF, you can never be too prepared.

List of faster/QC OHKO users. Big problem if you don't get the thief off.
- Whiscash 4,
- QC Rhydon (Rhydon 1, 3, 2, 4 – easiest to hardest to deal with)
- Arena Trap Dugtrio 3 and 4
- Wailord 4
-Donphan 3
- Walrein 3
-Lapras 8
-Seaking 2
-Nidoking 1

Explosion Leads (Most dangerous listed)- Other ones are also dangerous, but Zapdos can tank their stab move with memento.
-Golem 3, Golem 4
-Steelix 3
-Muk 4- Especially Stickyhold Muk.
-Regirock 1, 2 & 6
-Regice 3
-Forretress 4

Metagross 4, Metagross 5, Metagross 6, Metagross 8, Metagross 7

Icy wind targets (5-15% chance to miss!)
-All Starmie.... most dangerous is Starmie 3
-Raikou
-Gengar 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8. Especially Gengar 5 and 6 - Has shadow Ball and strong special moves. Missing Icy wind is terrible here.
-Jolteon 4. You trace Volt-Absorb. If you miss icy wind or get flinched... DON'T SACK Gardevoir. Try to bait out the thunderbolt to heal and try again.

QC crit from Physicals
- Ursaring 2
-Granbull 3
-Aggron 4
-Snorlax 4- No safe moves, struggles become too strong- have to dodge while setting up.

Potentially Dangerous Brightpowder (Missing T-wave)
--Crobat 4
- Salamence 4 and 5

Baton pass
-Medicham 1
-Umbreon 1- Baton passing evasion to a dangerous sweeper
- Espeon 1
-Scizor 4
-Jolteon 3- Agility passing

Roar Users (Remember NOT to boost up to +3 evasion until other moves are safely stalled out!) Not really a threat, just something to be mindful of.
-Articuno 1
-Zapdos 1
-Suicune 3
-Raikou 3 and 5

Pressure Double Team Users
-Zapdos 2 with Bright powder and Double team.
- Articuno 2 with leftovers AND DOUBLE TEAM.
-Moltres 2 and 3
- Suicune 2 and 3
- Entei/Raikou. Not as much of a threat. Should have plenty of spare EQ PP.
Be conservative with your PP! /SPOILER]

I didn't steal Curse Umbreon's leftovers and ran out of HP Flying PP against Umbreon/Articuno/Zapdos. Still pulled it out.. but I definitely escaped a narrow loss there. The replay is almost 12 minutes long.... I'll spare you all the replay. Zapdos had to struggle ko the other zapdos.

Aerial Ace is worth an argument to prevent these "infinite battles" and also helps not missing against double team and brightpowder... which is something at least.
Unfortunately, the power really sucks.

+6 252+ Atk Salamence Aerial Ace vs. 170 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl: 163-192 (92.6 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Sharp Beak Salamence Aerial Ace vs. 170 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl: 178-210 (101.1 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Sharp Beak Salamence Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 145-171 (87.8 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

I also had a Cacturne sighting! Very rare.

 

[dgice]

Some time ago, I made another Python script to calculate the relative frequencies of all Pokemon in Battle Frontier. This is a problem more interesting than it seems, because of the following:

• Species Clause;
• Item Clause;
• Same trainers never appearing in the same streak.

While it would be an easy task to calculate all trainers' possible team combinations, assuming all trainers appear equally likely, and just count the relative frequencies, the third bullet makes the number of possible streaks explode and no program would be able to calculate the exact proportion anymore. As a solution, I made a Monte Carlo simulation of streaks of 7 trainers and did frequency analysis on that instead.

Of course, this frequency analysis yields different results for the first streak, second streak, third, etc, because they draw from different trainer pools. But the most interesting part is of course the post-49 trainer pool. These trainers have index numbers greater than 199.

In the spoiler below, we see the different Pokemon sets (in Level 50) along with a number. This number is a Monte Carlo estimation of the probability that any given non-boss streak will contain that Pokemon at least once. The number of streaks generated was 100.000. I hope this helps teambuilding!

Big spoiler -- watch out!

Gyarados 4​	0.112​
Swampert 4​	0.111​
Milotic 4​	0.111​
Ludicolo 4​	0.11​
Lapras 4​	0.107​
Shuckle 4​	0.105​
Slowking 4​	0.102​
Blissey 4​	0.102​
Xatu 4​	0.101​
Slowbro 4​	0.101​
Kingdra 4​	0.099​
Quagsire 4​	0.097​
Machamp 4​	0.097​
Flygon 4​	0.096​
Blastoise 4​	0.096​
Jolteon 4​	0.095​
Starmie 4​	0.094​
Feraligatr 4​	0.094​
Clefable 4​	0.092​
Hariyama 4​	0.091​
Tentacruel 4​	0.091​
Aerodactyl 4​	0.091​
Snorlax 4​	0.091​
Heracross 4​	0.09​
Umbreon 4​	0.09​
Flareon 4​	0.089​
Blaziken 4​	0.089​
Vaporeon 4​	0.088​
Whiscash 4​	0.087​
Charizard 4​	0.087​
Houndoom 4​	0.086​
Jynx 4​	0.085​
Espeon 4​	0.085​
Altaria 4​	0.082​
Lanturn 4​	0.081​
Armaldo 4​	0.08​
Dewgong 4​	0.079​
Exploud 4​	0.079​
Miltank 4​	0.079​
Walrein 4​	0.078​
Granbull 4​	0.077​
Wailord 4​	0.076​
Gardevoir 4​	0.076​
Medicham 4​	0.075​
Metagross 4​	0.075​
Golduck 4​	0.074​
Rapidash 4​	0.073​
Porygon2 4​	0.073​
Dusclops 4​	0.072​
Mr. Mime 4​	0.072​
Ninetales 4​	0.072​
Breloom 4​	0.071​
Vileplume 4​	0.069​
Nidoqueen 4​	0.069​
Ursaring 4​	0.069​
Charizard 1​	0.068​
Venusaur 4​	0.068​
Aggron 4​	0.068​
Aggron 2​	0.067​
Misdreavus 4​	0.067​
Marowak 4​	0.067​
Glalie 4​	0.067​
Steelix 1​	0.065​
Raichu 4​	0.065​
Cradily 4​	0.065​
Claydol 4​	0.065​
Blaziken 3​	0.064​
Scizor 4​	0.064​
Starmie 2​	0.063​
Metagross 3​	0.063​
Gengar 4​	0.063​
Typhlosion 4​	0.063​
Aerodactyl 2​	0.062​
Shiftry 4​	0.062​
Ampharos 4​	0.062​
Steelix 4​	0.062​
Nidoking 4​	0.061​
Salamence 4​	0.061​
Blaziken 1​	0.06​
Machamp 1​	0.059​
Machamp 2​	0.059​
Rhydon 4​	0.059​
Starmie 1​	0.058​
Heracross 2​	0.058​
Aerodactyl 3​	0.058​
Tauros 4​	0.058​
Slaking 4​	0.058​
Aerodactyl 1​	0.057​
Kangaskhan 4​	0.057​
Charizard 2​	0.056​
Metagross 2​	0.056​
Alakazam 4​	0.056​
Slowbro 1​	0.055​
Metagross 1​	0.055​
Medicham 2​	0.055​
Blaziken 2​	0.054​
Dodrio 4​	0.054​
Aggron 3​	0.053​
Charizard 3​	0.053​
Exeggutor 4​	0.053​
Meganium 4​	0.053​
Metagross 7​	0.053​
Venusaur 1​	0.052​
Dugtrio 4​	0.052​
Forretress 4​	0.052​
Magmar 4​	0.052​
Regirock 1​	0.052​
Machamp 7​	0.052​
Registeel 6​	0.052​
Jynx 1​	0.051​
Ampharos 1​	0.051​
Steelix 2​	0.051​
Skarmory 4​	0.051​
Arcanine 4​	0.051​
Starmie 6​	0.051​
Lanturn 1​	0.05​
Slowking 2​	0.05​
Heracross 3​	0.05​
Lapras 3​	0.05​
Gyarados 3​	0.05​
Gyarados 1​	0.049​
Starmie 3​	0.049​
Sceptile 4​	0.049​
Machamp 5​	0.049​
Latias 6​	0.049​
Shuckle 1​	0.048​
Gyarados 2​	0.048​
Weezing 4​	0.048​
Crobat 4​	0.048​
Regice 3​	0.048​
Machamp 6​	0.048​
Machamp 8​	0.048​
Starmie 7​	0.048​
Breloom 1​	0.047​
Typhlosion 1​	0.047​
Espeon 2​	0.047​
Slowbro 3​	0.047​
Salamence 3​	0.047​
Golem 4​	0.047​
Registeel 4​	0.047​
Starmie 8​	0.047​
Medicham 1​	0.046​
Hariyama 1​	0.046​
Blastoise 1​	0.046​
Lapras 1​	0.046​
Medicham 3​	0.046​
Jynx 3​	0.046​
Breloom 3​	0.046​
Nidoking 3​	0.046​
Shuckle 3​	0.046​
Victreebel 4​	0.046​
Regice 4​	0.046​
Regirock 5​	0.046​
Sharpedo 2​	0.045​
Absol 2​	0.045​
Heracross 1​	0.045​
Flygon 2​	0.045​
Houndoom 3​	0.045​
Swampert 3​	0.045​
Regice 1​	0.045​
Moltres 2​	0.045​
Regirock 2​	0.045​
Moltres 4​	0.045​
Regirock 4​	0.045​
Starmie 5​	0.045​
Exeggutor 1​	0.044​
Feraligatr 1​	0.044​
Salamence 1​	0.044​
Hypno 4​	0.044​
Regirock 3​	0.044​
Zapdos 4​	0.044​
Regice 6​	0.044​
Xatu 1​	0.043​
Alakazam 1​	0.043​
Slowking 1​	0.043​
Armaldo 1​	0.043​
Cradily 2​	0.043​
Lapras 2​	0.043​
Cradily 3​	0.043​
Claydol 3​	0.043​
Registeel 3​	0.043​
Metagross 6​	0.043​
Houndoom 1​	0.042​
Aggron 1​	0.042​
Gardevoir 2​	0.042​
Umbreon 3​	0.042​
Electabuzz 4​	0.042​
Registeel 1​	0.042​
Regice 2​	0.042​
Registeel 2​	0.042​
Scizor 1​	0.041​
Tentacruel 1​	0.041​
Meganium 1​	0.041​
Breloom 2​	0.041​
Lanturn 3​	0.041​
Shiftry 3​	0.041​
Slowking 3​	0.041​
Scizor 3​	0.041​
Machamp 3​	0.041​
Glalie 1​	0.04​
Flareon 1​	0.04​
Espeon 1​	0.04​
Walrein 1​	0.04​
Jynx 2​	0.04​
Hariyama 2​	0.04​
Houndoom 2​	0.04​
Shuckle 2​	0.04​
Flareon 2​	0.04​
Swampert 2​	0.04​
Hariyama 3​	0.04​
Espeon 3​	0.04​
Donphan 4​	0.04​
Latias 3​	0.04​
Regirock 6​	0.04​
Latios 6​	0.04​
Misdreavus 1​	0.039​
Ludicolo 1​	0.039​
Nidoqueen 1​	0.039​
Swampert 1​	0.039​
Forretress 2​	0.039​
Rhydon 2​	0.039​
Nidoqueen 2​	0.039​
Nidoking 2​	0.039​
Xatu 3​	0.039​
Steelix 3​	0.039​
Typhlosion 3​	0.039​
Kingdra 3​	0.039​
Muk 4​	0.039​
Gardevoir 5​	0.039​
Regice 5​	0.039​
Registeel 5​	0.039​
Rhydon 1​	0.038​
Gengar 1​	0.038​
Jolteon 1​	0.038​
Kingdra 1​	0.038​
Slowbro 2​	0.038​
Alakazam 3​	0.038​
Gengar 3​	0.038​
Latios 3​	0.038​
Lapras 7​	0.038​
Umbreon 1​	0.037​
Milotic 2​	0.037​
Salamence 2​	0.037​
Raichu 3​	0.037​
Rapidash 3​	0.037​
Wailord 3​	0.037​
Venusaur 3​	0.037​
Moltres 3​	0.037​
Articuno 4​	0.037​
Metagross 5​	0.037​
Gardevoir 1​	0.036​
Vaporeon 1​	0.036​
Lanturn 2​	0.036​
Hypno 2​	0.036​
Gengar 2​	0.036​
Umbreon 2​	0.036​
Kingdra 2​	0.036​
Misdreavus 3​	0.036​
Forretress 3​	0.036​
Skarmory 3​	0.036​
Ludicolo 3​	0.036​
Rhydon 3​	0.036​
Flygon 3​	0.036​
Blastoise 3​	0.036​
Manectric 4​	0.036​
Forretress 1​	0.035​
Skarmory 1​	0.035​
Hypno 1​	0.035​
Misdreavus 2​	0.035​
Mr. Mime 2​	0.035​
Golem 2​	0.035​
Walrein 2​	0.035​
Nidoqueen 3​	0.035​
Meganium 3​	0.035​
Feraligatr 3​	0.035​
Electrode 4​	0.035​
Articuno 2​	0.035​
Zapdos 3​	0.035​
Metagross 8​	0.035​
Latias 8​	0.035​
Latios 8​	0.035​
Shiftry 1​	0.034​
Flygon 1​	0.034​
Xatu 2​	0.034​
Scizor 2​	0.034​
Wailord 2​	0.034​
Ninetales 2​	0.034​
Exeggutor 2​	0.034​
Feraligatr 2​	0.034​
Sceptile 2​	0.034​
Typhlosion 2​	0.034​
Arcanine 2​	0.034​
Walrein 3​	0.034​
Milotic 3​	0.034​
Fearow 4​	0.034​
Zapdos 1​	0.034​
Milotic 1​	0.033​
Marowak 2​	0.033​
Armaldo 2​	0.033​
Tentacruel 2​	0.033​
Venusaur 2​	0.033​
Blastoise 2​	0.033​
Mr. Mime 3​	0.033​
Marowak 3​	0.033​
Tentacruel 3​	0.033​
Gardevoir 3​	0.033​
Flareon 3​	0.033​
Articuno 1​	0.033​
Moltres 1​	0.033​
Articuno 3​	0.033​
Entei 4​	0.033​
Gardevoir 8​	0.033​
Lapras 8​	0.033​
Latios 5​	0.033​
Marowak 1​	0.032​
Nidoking 1​	0.032​
Alakazam 2​	0.032​
Ninetales 3​	0.032​
Zapdos 2​	0.032​
Latios 2​	0.032​
Raikou 3​	0.032​
Salamence 8​	0.032​
Cradily 1​	0.031​
Wailord 1​	0.031​
Crobat 1​	0.031​
Skarmory 2​	0.031​
Armaldo 3​	0.031​
Sceptile 3​	0.031​
Latias 2​	0.031​
Latias 4​	0.031​
Dewgong 1​	0.03​
Meganium 2​	0.03​
Exeggutor 3​	0.03​
Lapras 6​	0.03​
Latias 5​	0.03​
Dusclops 1​	0.029​
Altaria 1​	0.029​
Magmar 1​	0.029​
Rapidash 1​	0.029​
Ninetales 1​	0.029​
Sceptile 1​	0.029​
Manectric 2​	0.029​
Shiftry 2​	0.029​
Ludicolo 2​	0.029​
Vaporeon 2​	0.029​
Snorlax 2​	0.029​
Dusclops 3​	0.029​
Crobat 3​	0.029​
Gengar 5​	0.029​
Gengar 6​	0.029​
Gengar 7​	0.029​
Gengar 8​	0.029​
Lapras 5​	0.029​
Cloyster 2​	0.028​
Claydol 1​	0.028​
Snorlax 1​	0.028​
Arcanine 1​	0.028​
Dusclops 2​	0.028​
Claydol 2​	0.028​
Latias 1​	0.028​
Latios 1​	0.028​
Latios 4​	0.028​
Ursaring 5​	0.028​
Whiscash 1​	0.027​
Whiscash 3​	0.027​
Dewgong 3​	0.027​
Gardevoir 7​	0.027​
Latias 7​	0.027​
Latios 7​	0.027​
Dunsparce 2​	0.026​
Wigglytuff 2​	0.026​
Fearow 2​	0.026​
Glalie 2​	0.026​
Rapidash 2​	0.026​
Jolteon 2​	0.026​
Salamence 5​	0.026​
Salamence 6​	0.026​
Salamence 7​	0.026​
Porygon 2​	0.025​
Kecleon 2​	0.025​
Mr. Mime 1​	0.025​
Quagsire 1​	0.025​
Victreebel 1​	0.025​
Golem 1​	0.025​
Quagsire 2​	0.025​
Electrode 2​	0.025​
Electabuzz 2​	0.025​
Altaria 2​	0.025​
Crobat 2​	0.025​
Magmar 3​	0.025​
Ursaring 3​	0.025​
Raikou 1​	0.025​
Entei 1​	0.025​
Suicune 1​	0.025​
Suicune 2​	0.025​
Gardevoir 6​	0.025​
Wobbuffet 1​	0.024​
Vileplume 1​	0.024​
Exploud 2​	0.024​
Porygon2 2​	0.024​
Hypno 3​	0.024​
Golem 3​	0.024​
Vaporeon 3​	0.024​
Jolteon 3​	0.024​
Arcanine 3​	0.024​
Raikou 2​	0.024​
Entei 3​	0.024​
Raikou 4​	0.024​
Suicune 4​	0.024​
Wobbuffet 2​	0.023​
Ursaring 1​	0.023​
Donphan 1​	0.023​
Whiscash 2​	0.023​
Ursaring 2​	0.023​
Electrode 3​	0.023​
Entei 2​	0.023​
Suicune 3​	0.023​
Dewgong 2​	0.022​
Miltank 2​	0.022​
Magmar 2​	0.022​
Glalie 3​	0.022​
Snorlax 3​	0.022​
Chansey 2​	0.021​
Granbull 1​	0.021​
Electabuzz 1​	0.021​
Ampharos 2​	0.021​
Quagsire 3​	0.021​
Vileplume 3​	0.021​
Altaria 3​	0.021​
Victreebel 2​	0.02​
Miltank 3​	0.02​
Shedinja 1​	0.019​
Ninjask 1​	0.019​
Masquerain 2​	0.019​
Octillery 2​	0.019​
Pinsir 2​	0.019​
Muk 1​	0.019​
Vileplume 2​	0.019​
Weezing 2​	0.019​
Ampharos 3​	0.019​
Blissey 3​	0.019​
Delcatty 2​	0.018​
Parasect 2​	0.018​
Venomoth 2​	0.018​
Scyther 2​	0.018​
Dodrio 2​	0.018​
Kangaskhan 2​	0.018​
Golduck 2​	0.018​
Donphan 2​	0.018​
Victreebel 3​	0.018​
Golduck 3​	0.018​
Ursaring 6​	0.018​
Snorlax 8​	0.018​
Kingler 2​	0.017​
Dugtrio 1​	0.017​
Fearow 1​	0.017​
Dodrio 1​	0.017​
Miltank 1​	0.017​
Golduck 1​	0.017​
Blissey 1​	0.017​
Dugtrio 2​	0.017​
Muk 2​	0.017​
Dugtrio 3​	0.017​
Weezing 3​	0.017​
Donphan 3​	0.017​
Fearow 3​	0.016​
Manectric 3​	0.016​
Seaking 2​	0.015​
Crawdaunt 2​	0.015​
Weezing 1​	0.015​
Muk 3​	0.015​
Slaking 3​	0.015​
Sneasel 2​	0.014​
Relicanth 2​	0.014​
Manectric 1​	0.014​
Tauros 1​	0.014​
Granbull 2​	0.014​
Dodrio 3​	0.014​
Exploud 3​	0.014​
Snorlax 6​	0.014​
Ninjask 2​	0.013​
Slaking 1​	0.013​
Blissey 2​	0.013​
Kangaskhan 3​	0.013​
Tauros 3​	0.013​
Porygon2 3​	0.013​
Snorlax 5​	0.013​
Snorlax 7​	0.013​
Raichu 1​	0.012​
Exploud 1​	0.012​
Raichu 2​	0.012​
Tauros 2​	0.012​
Electabuzz 3​	0.012​
Ursaring 7​	0.012​
Ursaring 8​	0.012​
Zangoose 2​	0.011​
Mantine 2​	0.011​
Huntail 2​	0.011​
Gorebyss 2​	0.011​
Electrode 1​	0.011​
Kangaskhan 1​	0.011​
Clefable 2​	0.01​
Slaking 2​	0.01​
Granbull 3​	0.01​
Seviper 2​	0.009​
Clefable 1​	0.008​
Porygon2 1​	0.008​
Clefable 3​	0.008​
Pidgeot 2​	0.007​
Cacturne 2​	0.006​
Tropius 2​	0.005​
Sunflora 2​	0.004​
Jumpluff 2​	0.004​
Bellossom 2​	0.004​

I want to point out a second similar question that is "what is the possibility the lead pokemon is a certain set", as based on the pret disassembly it's possible the lead pokemon is also the one that is chosen first and therefore the odds are not affected by species or item clause. Though it would be affected by trainer clause. Because the matchup after set up is so different from the matchup before setup the lead pokemon is often very important in determining how risky a battle is going to be. Maybe we can get Actaeon to do the work for us again and see if the numbers are any different :D


Also "will this pokemon set appear in a streak of seven at least once" is a different question than "what is the relative frequency this pokemon will appear" because some sets appear on more than two trainers, but the numbers are very close as the most common sets become slightly more common.

 

[wtset]

Battle Frontier Challenge #4: A fulfilled childhood

Its the year 2021: while cleaning up your basement, you find your old dusty Gameboy Advance. It still has the cartridge of your favorite childhood game inserted: Pokemon Emerald. After charging it, it surprisingly still starts up and you are excited to check out your old savegame and dwell in nostalgia. The game loads and your character is standing right before the Battle Tower entrance. You check out your pokemon party and immediately remember all the frustrating hours you spent training your Blaziken, Swellow and Manectric to Level 100, only to fail in the Battle Tower again and again.
You get hit by a sudden urge to fill that hole from your childhood.


For this challenge, we assume we're playing on a version of Pokemon Emerald with the story mode already completed.
However,

• we don't want to start a new game for nostalgia reasons
• we don't have access to another GBA or Gamecube for trading
• we don't know anything about RNG abuse
• our younger self was pretty reckless with the games finite resources.

This leads to the following ruleset:

• Only pokemon that are obtainable in Emerald with one GBA:
  • No Ruby / Sapphire exclusives.
  • Nothing from FR / LG or the Gamecube games.
  • No trade evolutions.
  • None of the Gen 2 startes since you can't complete the Hoenn Dex without trading.
• No legendaries or gift pokemon, we assume your younger version used the Master Ball on Rayquaza, then killed all the other legendaries for lack of patience and killed Lati@s by accident.
• No breeding for IVs
  • EV training is allowed.
  • Soft resetting / repeated breeding for the right nature is allowed as well.
  • Ideally, the team should work with 0 IVs everywhere, but since it would somewhere defeat the purpose of this challenge to specifically breed for 0 IV mons, you're allowed to use the first thing you catch / hatch that has the right nature.
• Only TMs that you can get repeatedly:
  • Everything that can be purchased from the Game Corner, Lilycove Department Store or Slateport Market.
  • Return / Frustration from the Pokemon Fan Club Chairman in Pacifidlog Town.
  • Everything that can be obtained with Pickup in Emerald: Rest, Focus Punch and Earthquake.
• No one-time only Move Tutors
  • Battle Frontier Move Tutors that can be purchased for BP are allowed.
• No egg moves that require an unobtainable pokemon as a parent.
• No items that can't be obtained realistically in Emerald alone, i.e. no stat-boosting berries:
  • Ganlon, Petaya, Salac and Apicot are only available in Gamecube games.
  • Liechi could theoretically be gotten on Mirage Island, but if we exclude RNG for breeding, we might aswell exclude that.
  • Lansat / Starf can be obtained in Emerald by obtaining all the Silver / Gold symbols, but since the purpose of this challenge is to build a team that can get these symbols in the first place, they're not allowed either.
• Maybe there's some things I'm forgetting, but the idea should be clear: If something is possible to obtain on a single Emerald game with wasted finite resources then it is allowed, otherwise it is not.

For the start, I only want to do Battle Tower, but if enough people are interested we can do the other facilities as well. There's no deadline, rating system etc. here, but I hope as many people as possible will try the challenge and post their results, I will certainly do so myself as soon as I have some time.

 

[N1c69]

Battle Frontier Challenge #4: A fulfilled childhood

Its the year 2021: while cleaning up your basement, you find your old dusty Gameboy Advance. It still has the cartridge of your favorite childhood game inserted: Pokemon Emerald. After charging it, it surprisingly still starts up and you are excited to check out your old savegame and dwell in nostalgia. The game loads and your character is standing right before the Battle Tower entrance. You check out your pokemon party and immediately remember all the frustrating hours you spent training your Blaziken, Swellow and Manectric to Level 100, only to fail in the Battle Tower again and again.
You get hit by a sudden urge to fill that hole from your childhood.


For this challenge, we assume we're playing on a version of Pokemon Emerald with the story mode already completed.
However,

• we don't want to start a new game for nostalgia reasons
• we don't have access to another GBA or Gamecube for trading
• we don't know anything about RNG abuse
• our younger self was pretty reckless with the games finite resources.

This leads to the following ruleset:

• Only pokemon that are obtainable in Emerald with one GBA:
  • No Ruby / Sapphire exclusives.
  • Nothing from FR / LG or the Gamecube games.
  • No trade evolutions.
  • None of the Gen 2 startes since you can't complete the Hoenn Dex without trading.
• No legendaries or gift pokemon, we assume your younger version used the Master Ball on Rayquaza, then killed all the other legendaries for lack of patience and killed Lati@s by accident.
• No breeding for IVs
  • EV training is allowed.
  • Soft resetting / repeated breeding for the right nature is allowed as well.
  • Ideally, the team should work with 0 IVs everywhere, but since it would somewhere defeat the purpose of this challenge to specifically breed for 0 IV mons, you're allowed to use the first thing you catch / hatch that has the right nature.
• Only TMs that you can get repeatedly:
  • Everything that can be purchased from the Game Corner, Lilycove Department Store or Slateport Market.
  • Return / Frustration from the Pokemon Fan Club Chairman in Pacifidlog Town.
  • Everything that can be obtained with Pickup in Emerald: Rest, Focus Punch and Earthquake.
• No one-time only Move Tutors
  • Battle Frontier Move Tutors that can be purchased for BP are allowed.
• No egg moves that require an unobtainable pokemon as a parent.
• No items that can't be obtained realistically in Emerald alone, i.e. no stat-boosting berries:
  • Ganlon, Petaya, Salac and Apicot are only available in Gamecube games.
  • Liechi could theoretically be gotten on Mirage Island, but if we exclude RNG for breeding, we might aswell exclude that.
  • Lansat / Starf can be obtained in Emerald by obtaining all the Silver / Gold symbols, but since the purpose of this challenge is to build a team that can get these symbols in the first place, they're not allowed either.
• Maybe there's some things I'm forgetting, but the idea should be clear: If something is possible to obtain on a single Emerald game with wasted finite resources then it is allowed, otherwise it is not.

For the start, I only want to do Battle Tower, but if enough people are interested we can do the other facilities as well. There's no deadline, rating system etc. here, but I hope as many people as possible will try the challenge and post their results, I will certainly do so myself as soon as I have some time.

This sounds like a fun challenge and I'm going to start it right away. I tried to come up with a similar challenge but this is much less convoluted.

Are there restriction for using pokemon with flawless iv's/pokemon with a high iv average? From my experience, the highest iv tier I've caught was "quite impressive" with usually 1 flawless iv tops. One way to prove validity would be to catch pokemon in a ball other than a pokeball and provide a photo of the level met.

I have a bunch of pokemon I have already caught without being bred for ivs (some lucky catches too like a flawless spD calm Lanturn caught in a dive ball, and a shiny Xatu caught in a safari ball).
Since Blaziken is the starter for this challenge, I take it that Swampert is banned. Recently I caught a Whiscash with flawless attack in an ultra ball, which I will be using as a Swampert replacement. Whiscash has access to tickle and Amnesia which give it a niche over the other mudfish.

Good luck all contestants!

 

[Actaeon]

Battle Frontier Challenge #4: A fulfilled childhood

Its the year 2021: while cleaning up your basement, you find your old dusty Gameboy Advance. It still has the cartridge of your favorite childhood game inserted: Pokemon Emerald. After charging it, it surprisingly still starts up and you are excited to check out your old savegame and dwell in nostalgia. The game loads and your character is standing right before the Battle Tower entrance. You check out your pokemon party and immediately remember all the frustrating hours you spent training your Blaziken, Swellow and Manectric to Level 100, only to fail in the Battle Tower again and again.
You get hit by a sudden urge to fill that hole from your childhood.


For this challenge, we assume we're playing on a version of Pokemon Emerald with the story mode already completed.
However,

• we don't want to start a new game for nostalgia reasons
• we don't have access to another GBA or Gamecube for trading
• we don't know anything about RNG abuse
• our younger self was pretty reckless with the games finite resources.

This leads to the following ruleset:

• Only pokemon that are obtainable in Emerald with one GBA:
  • No Ruby / Sapphire exclusives.
  • Nothing from FR / LG or the Gamecube games.
  • No trade evolutions.
  • None of the Gen 2 startes since you can't complete the Hoenn Dex without trading.
• No legendaries or gift pokemon, we assume your younger version used the Master Ball on Rayquaza, then killed all the other legendaries for lack of patience and killed Lati@s by accident.
• No breeding for IVs
  • EV training is allowed.
  • Soft resetting / repeated breeding for the right nature is allowed as well.
  • Ideally, the team should work with 0 IVs everywhere, but since it would somewhere defeat the purpose of this challenge to specifically breed for 0 IV mons, you're allowed to use the first thing you catch / hatch that has the right nature.
• Only TMs that you can get repeatedly:
  • Everything that can be purchased from the Game Corner, Lilycove Department Store or Slateport Market.
  • Return / Frustration from the Pokemon Fan Club Chairman in Pacifidlog Town.
  • Everything that can be obtained with Pickup in Emerald: Rest, Focus Punch and Earthquake.
• No one-time only Move Tutors
  • Battle Frontier Move Tutors that can be purchased for BP are allowed.
• No egg moves that require an unobtainable pokemon as a parent.
• No items that can't be obtained realistically in Emerald alone, i.e. no stat-boosting berries:
  • Ganlon, Petaya, Salac and Apicot are only available in Gamecube games.
  • Liechi could theoretically be gotten on Mirage Island, but if we exclude RNG for breeding, we might aswell exclude that.
  • Lansat / Starf can be obtained in Emerald by obtaining all the Silver / Gold symbols, but since the purpose of this challenge is to build a team that can get these symbols in the first place, they're not allowed either.
• Maybe there's some things I'm forgetting, but the idea should be clear: If something is possible to obtain on a single Emerald game with wasted finite resources then it is allowed, otherwise it is not.

For the start, I only want to do Battle Tower, but if enough people are interested we can do the other facilities as well. There's no deadline, rating system etc. here, but I hope as many people as possible will try the challenge and post their results, I will certainly do so myself as soon as I have some time.

As always, a well thought out challenge. I won't partake in this one, although I would gladly help anyone with some brainstorm sessions!

 

[N1c69]

Passing 42. Current team for the challenge:

Flygon @ Choice Band
Naughty; max atk and speed
152/148/100/105/88/142
-EQ
-Rock slide
-Flame thrower
-Facade (looking to replace this move)
Caught at lv21 with an Ultra ball

Skarmary; Sturdy @ Leftovers
Hardy; specially defensive with atk and speed too
145/99/169/55/98/103
-Aerial ace
-Protect
-Torment
-Toxic
Caught at lv16 with a Great ball

Lanturn; Volt Absorb @ Chesto Berry
Calm; specially defensive with some speed
195/60/74/85/130/92
-Surf
-Thunderbolt
-Rest
-Thunderwave (considering replacing this move with ice beam, protect- for torment scouting, or confuse ray

These were all pokemon I caught on my initial play through, without RNG manipulation. The idea is Lanturn covers boltbeam while Flygon and Skarmary cover EQ-slide. Dragon-Water-Steel core with two ground immunities, two electric imunities, two fire resists, one 4x grass resist, one ice resist, which should make switching easy. Choice stab EQ hurts, flame thrower has 100% accuracy which is better than missing fire blast twice, facade was a 100% accurate filler that hopefully helps with burns and poison. Skarmary is arguably the best sturdy user and with great defensive typing, a move that cuts through DT, and toxic + torment + protect, it can stall mons on its own or add prior damage for Flygon. Lanturn is great. Rest so it can be a status absorber and keeps high hp for multiple water types.

As always, a well thought out challenge. I won't partake in this one, although I would gladly help anyone with some brainstorm sessions!

I post this team early asking for brainstorming and hope to share a potentially good trio with anyone else who may be able to adapt it for their own streak.

 

[wtset]

This sounds like a fun challenge and I'm going to start it right away. I tried to come up with a similar challenge but this is much less convoluted.

Are there restriction for using pokemon with flawless iv's/pokemon with a high iv average? From my experience, the highest iv tier I've caught was "quite impressive" with usually 1 flawless iv tops. One way to prove validity would be to catch pokemon in a ball other than a pokeball and provide a photo of the level met.

I have a bunch of pokemon I have already caught without being bred for ivs (some lucky catches too like a flawless spD calm Lanturn caught in a dive ball, and a shiny Xatu caught in a safari ball).
Since Blaziken is the starter for this challenge, I take it that Swampert is banned. Recently I caught a Whiscash with flawless attack in an ultra ball, which I will be using as a Swampert replacement. Whiscash has access to tickle and Amnesia which give it a niche over the other mudfish.

Good luck all contestants!

Happy that you're participating :)

The challenge is supposed to be as accessible as possible; so no worries if you caught something with above average IVs. Ideally (but this is not required at all) you should provide a reasoning why your team works no matter the IVs (which basically means with 0 IVs).
But the main idea is that it is challenging, while also being easy to participate for more inexperienced players and that the results may serve as a future guide for players trying to get all Gold Symbols on cartridge without getting too deep into IV breeding or buying additional hardware.

Also the opening paragraph is only for lore, we don't actually assume Blaziken was chosen, you can also go with Swampert or Scpetile if you want (but only one out of the three).

 

[N1c69]

Happy that you're participating :)

The challenge is supposed to be as accessible as possible; so no worries if you caught something with above average IVs. Ideally (but this is not required at all) you should provide a reasoning why your team works no matter the IVs (which basically means with 0 IVs).
But the main idea is that it is challenging, while also being easy to participate for more inexperienced players and that the results may serve as a future guide for players trying to get all Gold Symbols on cartridge without getting too deep into IV breeding or buying additional hardware.

Also the opening paragraph is only for lore, we don't actually assume Blaziken was chosen, you can also go with Swampert or Scpetile if you want (but only one out of the three).

Just reached 49 and still going. I think this team works no matter the IVs due to immunities. This team abuses two factors AI can't control: switching and torment.
If Flygon is leading and is faced with a psychic or water type with ice beam 90% of the time it will use it (Flygon has had a twave targetted at it idk why...), leaving Lanturn and sometimes Skarmary safe switches. Thus, AI becomes predictable. If AI has EQ, they will use it on Lanturn, which leaves two safe switch-ins. Same with fire and electric for Skarmary. The real advantage is torment + protect. This is something I learnt from reading the top tier players of this thread. Combining predictable moves and switches with torment and immunities/resists can be done regardless of IVs. Also, toxic + aerial ace helps with DT users, which was what stopped my childhood streaks may times.

To be fair, without a calm nature and flawless spD, Lanturn would be considerably weaker and may suffer from being critted. Flygon's only flawless IV is def which despite no investment, is key for tanking rock type attacks. Rock slide flinches suck. Skarmary has decent IV's from what I remember, but with low HP and defensive IVs it would have a hard time taking hits. Overall, I think most Dragon-Water-Steel cores can get to a streak of 50, but with an IV disadvantage, it will make it hard to tank hits/scores vital 1/2/3HKO's, leaving me vulnerable to hax (Focus band sunny day fire blast Zard nearly wiped me out).
The best archetype for the IV disadvantage in my opinion would be to use pokemon like ninjask for a baton pass team, shedinja, smeargle, d-bond or perish song tactics.