Gen V Balanced Hackmons

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verbatim

The costume fits Just a little too tight
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#1
Please don't talk about the creation of Balanced Hackmons UU, RU, NU, etc.; it's not happening.



What?



Balanced Hackmons is a new tier that throws out many conventional rules of standard competitive pokemon battling in order to create an entirely new experience. The basic premise is, "Anything goes". You can use any pokemon with any move with any item with 252 ev's in every stat. Also worth noting is that there is no team preview (making leads once more important) and that there are no clauses, the only things banned are Wonder Guard, Pure/Huge Power, OHKO moves, and Arena Trap/Shadow Tag. Since everyone gets everything many pokemon (here's looking at you Breloom) that managed to make it into the upper echelons of competitive pokemon through their access to rare abilities and moves are suddenly left behind in favor of pokemon with better stats and better typing. This allows pokemon that were saddled with a horrendously empty movepool or debilitating abilities to finally have a chance to shine (most notably, Slaking, although his usage has decreased with the Pure/Huge Power ban).



Where?



Balanced Hackmons is currently hosted on Aesoft's online competitive pokemon simulator Pokemon Showdown.


Metagame Analysis

As hackmons has less determining factors (only base stats and typing are relevent) than any other metagame, the few determining factors mean that it is much easier to determine which pokemon is "best" in its particular field and as a result, very few pokemon are truly usable in Hackmons (think ubers insofar as # of viable pokemon is concerned). Because of this, the variety in Hackmons comes less from what pokemon you use and more from what abilities and items you use on them. Because of the ability to run 252 ev's in every stat, many pokemon become much bulkier than they used to be in their older games and thus the metagame is heavily focused on bulky offense.



Conclusion

Here's hoping that through this page, hackmons has become a little less alien and a lot more exciting for many. In the vein of Theorymon's streetmons thread feel free to post sets that you have used or faced, keeping in mind to not post a set until you have tried it out or seen it in an actual Hackmons battle. Most importantly, have fun!
 

DTC

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#2
Balanced Hackmons is a ton of fun! It's still pretty new, so there is a ton of things to explore!

I've seen various different sets in Hackmons lately. Simple Quiver Dance Mewtwo, No Guard Inferno and Zap Cannon Mewtwo, PerishTrap Giratina, U-turn Slaking -- a ton of different things. It seems like every few days the meta changes; however, there are a few threats who have pretty consistent use in Hackmons.

Deoxys-S, Slaking, Giratina, Shedinja, and Groudon. (Although Shedinja and Groudon's usage has been a lot lower lately for some reason.) All of these are very common in Hackmons. Deoxys-S will usually be a lead, Slaking will usually be a crazy powerful attacker, Giratina can be doing many different roles, Shedinja can totally destroy a team once certain things are removed thanks to Sturdy, and Groudon is just plain bulky and has great attack.

Slaking is, in my opinion, the best Pokemon in Hackmons right now. 160 base Attack + Pure Power allows it to 2HKO so much in Hackmons and it can revenge most set-up sweepers as well. It's just incredibly powerful, and it can also tank many attacks as well. Regigias is also great; only problem is Hackmons tends to be more physically oriented thanks to Pure Power so Regigias higher Special Defense niche is a lot less useful most of the time than the higher Defense that Slaking has.

Anyways, like I've said earlier, Hackmons is a pretty crazy tier at the moment. I've been seeing a ton of different playstyles lately, such as BP and weather teams. All of them tend to have significant flaws, so I'm interested to see how people improve these kinds of teams. I'd also like to see more leads! Pretty much every lead in Hackmons is Deoxys-S or Jirachi. I'm sure there are other great options out there!
 

doughboy

backhand slap ready
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#3
Hackmons seems really interesting. Have to find the ultimate Serene Grace abuser. Possibly Serene Grace Fiery Dance?

From my very brief stint in the tier, Choice Scarf Imposter Blissey is really popular. Everyone seems so powerful to 2HKO everything that Blissey should have no trouble being forced to switch out. Of course the mega bulky 714 HP that Blissey has doesn't hurt either!
 
#4
Mold Breaker is so anti-meta in this since everything has Magic Bounce.

Regigigas is a very powerful thing to face. Shedinja is a whore. :(

Imposter Blissey is the best thing ever btw, Choice Scarf or not.

Also, I've been running a Simple Tail Glow Deoxys-A with screen support. It's pretty good. I keep getting revenged by ScarfBlissey though. :(
 

Jac

Puyo shobu!~
is a Battle Server Moderator
#5
This tier is definitely a favorite of mine. I'm quite guilty of using Sturdy Shedinja to net a few kills.

With Endeavor/ExtremeSpeed, he can murder most things left and right. Magic Coat bounces back those nasty hazards/status aimed at him. And then if he need an attacking option for those pesky ghosts not named Shedinja trying to switch in on anything else, Shadow Claw puts a nice dent in him. A lot of people complain it's unbeatable but some abrasive sand/hail will finish him. Mold Breaker also cuts him up.

This tier is quite strange but it's also amazing. Makes you think about what is really important on your team.
 

Codraroll

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#6
For instance?

Mewtwo @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
Leaf Storm/Psycho Boost
Overheat/V-create
Draco Meteor
Close Combat/Superpower/Hammer Arm/Recover(?)

I can imagine this hurting a thing or two. Except from Sturdy Shedinja, that is. You might want Stealth Rock on the field for that.
 
#7
So what exactly is stopping Magic Coat WonderTomb?

Also:

Deoxys-S @ Leftovers or whatever
Shadow Tag
Jolly (+Spe, -Atk)
Spore
Substitute
Quiver Dance
Dragon Pulse?
 
#10
Love this meta, great fun and seriously unpredictable. One set I love:

Mewtwo@Life Orb/Leftovers/Anything
Ability: Prankster
Timid Nature
-Spore
-Tail Glow
-Spacial Rend
-Blue Flare

Superb sweeper, and the only things that can stop it at +6 are Sturdy Shedinja and Priority.
 

DTC

I'll be your 1-Up girl
is a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
#11
For instance?

Mewtwo @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
Leaf Storm/Psycho Boost
Overheat/V-create
Draco Meteor
Close Combat/Superpower/Hammer Arm/Recover(?)

I can imagine this hurting a thing or two. Except from Sturdy Shedinja, that is. You might want Stealth Rock on the field for that.
Interesting set. I think you're using the wrong item on it, though. You'll want to change your moves around a lot so you shouldn't be using Choice Specs and Life Orb will kill you pretty fast. I suggest using Lum Berry or Leftovers like most Pokemon in Hackmons run. Life Orb is usually an inferior item on most things.

I suggest using:

Mewtwo @ Lum Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
Psycho Boost
V-create
Overheat
Recover

Psycho Boost is your main STAB, V-create boosts your Defense, Special Defense, and Speed stat which is nice. Overheat boosts your Special Attack just like Psycho Boost and grants you extra special attacking coverage. Recover heals you up while you're boosting. Magic Coat might be worth using in one of these slots to block Spores (especially Prankster Spore's!) and prevent Pokemon from phazing you.

Also, the OP didn't say it, but in Balanced Hackmons OHKO moves and Wonder Guard are banned.
 
#12
I'm loving this metagame right now. I'm currently using a team built around Contrary Ho-oh (VCreate/Superpower/Brave Bird/Roost) which can rip through almost anything not named Giratina, accompanied by sun support and some obligatory pokes like Mold Breaker Deoxys-S and Sturdy Sheddy. Impostor Blissey is in my opinion the low point of the metagame, it's cheap and (in my experience) hasn't proven particularly effective, although I do carry a pretty solid counter to my two primary attackers. Would love to see this meta get more attention, who knows what kind of things will pop up!
 

Codraroll

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#13
^^First set I ever suggested anywhere. I hadn't really taken items into consideration so I slapped some "total power" on it just for the sake of overkill.

Also, Rocky Helmet could be an option, just to bitch with Shedinja. Provides a great revenge kill if it tries to Endeavour/Quick Attack you. Sure is a neat surprise to other physical attackers too.
 

verbatim

The costume fits Just a little too tight
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#14
Did not know this. If things are banned, might be an idea for them to be in the OP.
My apologizes, I had that explained in my original version prior to losing nearly everything and forgot to put it back in. Its there now.
 

DTC

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#15
Also, Rocky Helmet could be an option, just to bitch with Shedinja. Provides a great revenge kill if it tries to Endeavour/Quick Attack you. Sure is a neat surprise to other physical attackers too.
Haha, that's a pretty good idea, just make sure you have something to deal with status on Ho-Oh. In fact, Magic Coat could be a good option over Brave Bird, it allows you to block status and be able to beat all non Dragon Tail and Perish Song Giratina.

Imposter Blissey is pretty good, just make sure you don't let something get too many boosts, or Blissey will die attempting to revenge the Pokemon if it loses the speed tie. Choice Scarf Imposter Blissey isn't that effective, personally I like Leftovers or Lum Berry Imposter Blissey much more because you can switch moves. Most of the time when I'm up against Imposter Blissey I'm forced to use Slaking to revenge it, and if it transforms into a Rock, Ghost, or a Steel-type, it's even harder to beat it.

Also, remember that there is no Species Clause in Hackmons! I've been using teams with multiple Slaking's to great success. Only problem is you have to remember the order of the duplicates or else you may send out the wrong Pokemon thanks to a glitch on PS!. <_> (All the duplicates will appear to have the same exact set, items, etc.)
 
#16
I'm currently in love with this Deoxys-A set

Deoxys-A @ life orb
Trait: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 252 Atk / 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Bolt Strike
- Icicle Crash

It is like Electivire suddenly stopped sucking.
 
#18
because it is easier to keep them all at 252 for when i switch to a different pokemon or set? why keep all IVs at 31 in regular OU when on a terrakion you don't need those 31 points in special attack.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
#19
has anyone considered running a good ol'fashioned Sand Offense team in Hackmons? I'd imagine that a lot of mons would be pretty great with Sand Rush, and you could focus on just buttraping your opponent offensively since Sand takes care of Shedinja

EDIT: lol @ deo-a set comment
 
#21
Of course, this thread comes up a day and a half after I make the social group for it...

I've been using a Sand team quite well, actually, and it's keeping me around #15-20 on the ladder. I'm sure there are better Pokemon to abuse Sand Stream than a Scarf Dialga (who doesn't outspeed Deoxys-S with a Modest nature and has no power whatsoever with a Timid nature...) but using weather opens up the number of viable Pokemon and moves.
-Despite being weak, Knock Off allows you to stall out Leftovers users to some extent by removing their item and also takes the wind out of Pokemon with a boosting item.
-Ferrothorn is incredible, walling half of the metagame and beating Shedinja with Iron Barbs (if you lose a weather war). Yes, this is a case where a Pokemon's original ability is actually useful.
-Sand Rush. Ohmygawd. You can run Choice items and an offensive boosting nature on anything and just start raping things. I'd advise to not run a Dragon-type Rusher here, since Dragon Tail and Draco Meteor are so common. Sand Rush > Speed Boost on Sand teams so that you don't take Sandstorm damage and are automatically fast.
 

DTC

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#22
Why use Sand Rush when you can use Speed Boost?

Why use Sand Force when you can use Pure Power?
A +2 boost right away can be very useful. However, I probably wouldn't use a sand team just for that.

A sand team should be focusing on the 50% special boost on Rock-types, the extra residual damage (most things carry lum berry, which is useful for sand residual) and maybe 1 Sand Rush Pokemon. It's also nice that Shedinja just plain dies to sandstorm.

Rain/Sun teams might be fun to try out. I remember using a Hydration Quiver Dance Palkia and it was quite effective. Again though, you'll probably be focusing on the boosts in the moves rather than weather abilities because there are so many other great abilities you can be using.

Edit: Arcticblast, Ferrothorn? I've only used it once, and wasn't a fan of it. Mind sharing your set and expanding on what exactly it could do?
 
#23
Stabby (Ferrothorn) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Iron Barbs (should I make it Rough Skin for the hell of it?)
Sassy Nature
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Magic Coat

Ferrothorn works because it's a complete stop to most offensive Pokemon. Iron Barbs punishes Dragon Tail users, Shedinja, Focus Sashes (if the opponent's weather is up), Leech Seed, and many attackers that don't run a super effective move. The non-damaging moves are self-explanatory, and Gyro Ball is the strongest move Ferro gets in Hackmons. Since everything runs max Speed, it has max power against almost everything that isn't paralyzed.
 

doughboy

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#24
Substitute is really useful in the metagame since it makes all the big 2HKO's into 3HKO's. I've been using this set to great success:

Lugia@Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
Timid Nature; everything maxed out
-Spore
-Substitute
-Taunt
-Baton Pass

Lugia was chosen over Blissey because of his incredible base 110 speed. Bring this guy in on something that doesn't have Magic Bounce,Spore, and Pass one of the beefist Substitutes in the game. Shadow Tag insures they won't switch to a Magic Bounce user or someone who can take hits. If you're lucky enough they will still be asleep when you pass. Pass to a hard hitter and something that resists to Extremespeed. My preference is Skill Link Terrakion w/ Shift Gear :O
 
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