...
HECK YEAH!
Sheer force abuse maybe?
Hopefully this will give other pokemon the chance to shine
Edit:
Anyone want to do a tutor/tutee thing? I'd be fine spending a few hours saturday helping someone.
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Gen V Balanced Hackmons
- Thread starter verbatim
- Start date
- Status
...
HECK YEAH!
Sheer force abuse maybe?
Hopefully this will give other pokemon the chance to shine
Edit:
Anyone want to do a tutor/tutee thing? I'd be fine spending a few hours saturday helping someone.
I'd like to know who's doing this banning. Is this metagame entirely under Aeo's control, or is there a voting process somewhere? Because I'd like to have a say, and I'm sure others would also.
I don't think there is a voting process, PP was probably banned because we were complaining about it every few posts :P
Oddly enough I was left out of the loop. I'll see what I can find out and get back to you guys.
i could see pure power slaking being banned, but losing the whole abolity just seems silly.
Azumarill isn't exactly taking OU by storm, though. It's solidly UU last time I checked.
Banning Pure/Huge Power just limits variety, IMO. Just ban Pure Power slaking and Regigigas and be done with it.
Banning Pure/Huge Power just limits variety, IMO. Just ban Pure Power slaking and Regigigas and be done with it.
Priority,
91+ base speed with 1+ priority
e.g. palkia+Ice Shard
Edit:
91+ if you're talking about my giratina :P
ES & faster Prankster & priority users
So, Extreme Speed Arceus should outspeed Prankster Deoxys-Speed Copycat?
About time, those abilities were a bit too powerful. Now special attackers are a lot more viable. Also sheer force, sand force and similar abilities are now useful.
Say hello to simple/shadow tag/scrappy/contrary slakings though. But at least they won't ohko half your team right off the bat.
Sorry it took me so long to get back to everyone.
Aeo made the executive decision to remove Pure Power and Huge Power after seeing a bunch of people complain about. Right now I'm going to investigate setting up an official process for BH bans. I'll let you guys know when/if something gets set up.
Aeo made the executive decision to remove Pure Power and Huge Power after seeing a bunch of people complain about. Right now I'm going to investigate setting up an official process for BH bans. I'll let you guys know when/if something gets set up.
Thanks for the update, Verbatim.
Yep
Personally I wouldn't mind if Shedinja got banned also... Mewtwo is fine, cuz he's badass.
Giratina is a big fat bitch who should die in a fire
Giratina is a big fat bitch who should die in a fire
Ugh, really? Banning Pure Power? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of playing 'hackmons' in the first place?
I mean, the reason why Balanced Hackmons was originally created was because Sheer Cold and Wonder Guard completely centralized the metagame around those two aspects. The entire game was basically use Sheer Cold to kill shit, use Gastro Acid or Shadow Tag Perish Song when a Wonder Guard mon gets in the way.
I have not seen Pure Power cause the metagame to be nearly this one-directional. You can basically prevent Slaking from revenging your entire team just by running all Normal-type resists, lol.
I mean, the reason why Balanced Hackmons was originally created was because Sheer Cold and Wonder Guard completely centralized the metagame around those two aspects. The entire game was basically use Sheer Cold to kill shit, use Gastro Acid or Shadow Tag Perish Song when a Wonder Guard mon gets in the way.
I have not seen Pure Power cause the metagame to be nearly this one-directional. You can basically prevent Slaking from revenging your entire team just by running all Normal-type resists, lol.
While I agree that the point of Hackmons is... Hacking, the core of Pure Power Slaking, Sturdy Shedinja, and any-ability Giratina is pretty overcentralizing in my eyes; I see one of them on every team, sometimes all 3, and sometimes multiples.
No matter how you slice it, fighting the same few pokes every game isn't fun or interesting, but I'm not really sure if the metagame will ever really shift significantly past this Pure Power-less state. Definitely fun and quirky, but I don't see much room for expansion, since everything is predicated upon BST's and typing rather than movepools.
No matter how you slice it, fighting the same few pokes every game isn't fun or interesting, but I'm not really sure if the metagame will ever really shift significantly past this Pure Power-less state. Definitely fun and quirky, but I don't see much room for expansion, since everything is predicated upon BST's and typing rather than movepools.
I've been trying to create a viable stall team. With such a wide variety of threats to cover it hasn't been easy, but so many people in this thread seem to just cast off stall. They see something that can use a 180 BP move and increase 3 stats in one turn, jizz, and call it a day. I wanna prove that stall is just as viable, but I haven't had time to do much more than theorymon it. Not much activity on ladder so :/. This is obviously made post-Pure Power.
Here's the team so far:
Things I have tried and discarded:
Aromatherapy. It seems great on paper, but 4 things: 1) If imposter Blissey gets it I can say goodbye to all the Pokemon I have poisoned. 2) I had a really hard time finding a moveslot for it 3) It would heal Giratina's Poison and leave me with nothing to absorb a spore if Slaking is dead or the spore user has Mold Breaker (quite possible) 4) and finally, only 1 of my Pokemon can be hit with Spore by surprise. Only Lugia doesn't have Lum Berry, and it is pretty fast and has Substitute so not too worried there. Another little note is if I don't start seeing more Pokemon with Spore I'm going to start replacing the Lum Berries with Lefties...
Tell me what you think ;o
Here's the team so far:
Slaking @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- ExtremeSpeed
- Pursuit
- Rapid Spin
Slaking is a great anti-lead. Magic Bounce + Rapid Spin may seem a bit overkill, but I NEED Stealth Rock off the field to be effective. Also, Slaking easily causes switches, allowing me to sneak an unexpected Rapid Spin in (in theory...).
Lugia @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Roost
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Whirlwind
Lugia is kinda useless but I need a Pokemon to sponge strong physical Dragon attacks (even if they are a bit rare). I also need an extremely bulky Pokemon that can check a wide variety of stat-up sweepers (Slaking can't 2HKO with Crunch and this outspeeds, for instance). STAB Outrage (I know not many people use it but just for the sake of a calc) off of 150 Attack with a Life Orb does 45.5% - 54% to Lugia, and there are no physical Dragons that outspeed it. Like I said, this is probably the least useful member of this team, so open to suggestions. I was thinking maybe a Mold Breaker mon with Toxic to fuck over Magic Guard/Bounce but dunno. Lugia is kinda like a panic-fodder bulky as hell Pokemon that can be sent out if something gets tons of boosts, but Magic Guard/Bounce makes it more of a liability, I guess. I might throw on Rapid Spin or something with Rapid Spin if keeping them off the field with just Slaking becomes hard (but I haven't played many games so I haven't needed it yet).
Giratina @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Roar
Toxic Orb + Poison Heal is a great combo and ensures Giratina stays annoying throughout the battle. This moveset is annoying as fuck on Gliscor, and even moreso on the fat dragon. The fact that Giratina is poisoned throughout the battle also means it can absorb Spore. This set is really not dependent on Giratina's typing so if I find that I desperately need typing x I can switch it. For instance, if Soul Dew Latios becomes extremely common I can switch this to Blissey using a similar set.
Giratina @ Lum Berry / Choice Scarf
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Perish Song
- Substitute / Trick
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes
I was thinking of maybe throwing trick over Sub and adding a Scarf but dunno... It does get Roared out quite a bit and I could potentially stop that with Trick but Substitute is useful too. Toxic Spikes seems out of place but it is probably what makes Giratina so deadly. Shadow Tag + Toxic Spikes means I am almost guaranteed to get up 2 layers to fuck over Magic Bounce Pokemon. I can also trap Rapid Spinners with this guy :).
Ho-Oh @ Lum Berry
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Recover
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
This is my contrary and Steel-Pokemon-who-I-can't-Perish-Trap counter. I know I should probably just use V-Create but those defense drops scare me because Ho-Oh is so crucial to this team and already liable due to Stealth Rock.
Incase you are wondering "how":
Sacred Fire vs Impish Registeel 48.4% - 57.7%
Reshiram Draco Meteor (LO Neutral Nature) 41.8% - 49.3%
Reshiram Overheat in sun (LO Neutral Nature) 31.3% - 36.8%
Reshiram V-Create in sun (Neutral Nature) 42.1% - 49.8%
In the sun, V-Create with LO does 2HKO, but hopefully by that point I have either SR/Toxic Spikes down, and can try to let it kill itself with prediction. THinking of throwing Rain Dance or the like on one of my Pokemon for this reason, but I have absolutely no clue how common Sun is so :/. Latios with Soul Dew and Contrary does 2HKO this as well, but Slaking can revenge Latios. Flash Fire steels are easily taken down by Arceus or Giratina. Not many people expect a Ho-Oh that sets up hazards, so I rarely get Magic Bounced (given I haven't played many games). This is the reason I need Rapid Spin, too.
Arceus @ Lum Berry
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Recover
- Perish Song
- Mean Look
- Heart Swap / Taunt
This is my wildcard check for wildcard Pokemon. Arceus's great bulk and Speed allow it to Mean Look something before they know what hit them, and then its obvious from there. I don't know what I want in the last slot. Heart Swap and Taunt both look really nice for different reasons, but I haven't been able to test it enough to find out which one I like more (Leaning towards Taunt right now).
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- ExtremeSpeed
- Pursuit
- Rapid Spin
Slaking is a great anti-lead. Magic Bounce + Rapid Spin may seem a bit overkill, but I NEED Stealth Rock off the field to be effective. Also, Slaking easily causes switches, allowing me to sneak an unexpected Rapid Spin in (in theory...).
Lugia @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Roost
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Whirlwind
Lugia is kinda useless but I need a Pokemon to sponge strong physical Dragon attacks (even if they are a bit rare). I also need an extremely bulky Pokemon that can check a wide variety of stat-up sweepers (Slaking can't 2HKO with Crunch and this outspeeds, for instance). STAB Outrage (I know not many people use it but just for the sake of a calc) off of 150 Attack with a Life Orb does 45.5% - 54% to Lugia, and there are no physical Dragons that outspeed it. Like I said, this is probably the least useful member of this team, so open to suggestions. I was thinking maybe a Mold Breaker mon with Toxic to fuck over Magic Guard/Bounce but dunno. Lugia is kinda like a panic-fodder bulky as hell Pokemon that can be sent out if something gets tons of boosts, but Magic Guard/Bounce makes it more of a liability, I guess. I might throw on Rapid Spin or something with Rapid Spin if keeping them off the field with just Slaking becomes hard (but I haven't played many games so I haven't needed it yet).
Giratina @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Roar
Toxic Orb + Poison Heal is a great combo and ensures Giratina stays annoying throughout the battle. This moveset is annoying as fuck on Gliscor, and even moreso on the fat dragon. The fact that Giratina is poisoned throughout the battle also means it can absorb Spore. This set is really not dependent on Giratina's typing so if I find that I desperately need typing x I can switch it. For instance, if Soul Dew Latios becomes extremely common I can switch this to Blissey using a similar set.
Giratina @ Lum Berry / Choice Scarf
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Perish Song
- Substitute / Trick
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes
I was thinking of maybe throwing trick over Sub and adding a Scarf but dunno... It does get Roared out quite a bit and I could potentially stop that with Trick but Substitute is useful too. Toxic Spikes seems out of place but it is probably what makes Giratina so deadly. Shadow Tag + Toxic Spikes means I am almost guaranteed to get up 2 layers to fuck over Magic Bounce Pokemon. I can also trap Rapid Spinners with this guy :).
Ho-Oh @ Lum Berry
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Recover
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
This is my contrary and Steel-Pokemon-who-I-can't-Perish-Trap counter. I know I should probably just use V-Create but those defense drops scare me because Ho-Oh is so crucial to this team and already liable due to Stealth Rock.
Incase you are wondering "how":
Sacred Fire vs Impish Registeel 48.4% - 57.7%
Reshiram Draco Meteor (LO Neutral Nature) 41.8% - 49.3%
Reshiram Overheat in sun (LO Neutral Nature) 31.3% - 36.8%
Reshiram V-Create in sun (Neutral Nature) 42.1% - 49.8%
In the sun, V-Create with LO does 2HKO, but hopefully by that point I have either SR/Toxic Spikes down, and can try to let it kill itself with prediction. THinking of throwing Rain Dance or the like on one of my Pokemon for this reason, but I have absolutely no clue how common Sun is so :/. Latios with Soul Dew and Contrary does 2HKO this as well, but Slaking can revenge Latios. Flash Fire steels are easily taken down by Arceus or Giratina. Not many people expect a Ho-Oh that sets up hazards, so I rarely get Magic Bounced (given I haven't played many games). This is the reason I need Rapid Spin, too.
Arceus @ Lum Berry
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Recover
- Perish Song
- Mean Look
- Heart Swap / Taunt
This is my wildcard check for wildcard Pokemon. Arceus's great bulk and Speed allow it to Mean Look something before they know what hit them, and then its obvious from there. I don't know what I want in the last slot. Heart Swap and Taunt both look really nice for different reasons, but I haven't been able to test it enough to find out which one I like more (Leaning towards Taunt right now).
Things I have tried and discarded:
Aromatherapy. It seems great on paper, but 4 things: 1) If imposter Blissey gets it I can say goodbye to all the Pokemon I have poisoned. 2) I had a really hard time finding a moveslot for it 3) It would heal Giratina's Poison and leave me with nothing to absorb a spore if Slaking is dead or the spore user has Mold Breaker (quite possible) 4) and finally, only 1 of my Pokemon can be hit with Spore by surprise. Only Lugia doesn't have Lum Berry, and it is pretty fast and has Substitute so not too worried there. Another little note is if I don't start seeing more Pokemon with Spore I'm going to start replacing the Lum Berries with Lefties...
Tell me what you think ;o
Good luck finding a steel type without flash fire... I run the flash fire registeel set someone suggested earlier and I'm guessing it'll only get more popular as people realize how good it is.
Just something to think about.
Just something to think about.
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