General Doubles Metagame Thread

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So there's a new idea floating around. Eggy and lucariojr know about it, but Laga and I are debating the idea of Uber Doubles. I won't go crazy in details here, but the basic ideas are the following:

Soul Dew Banned
Releasing extra DW abilities (Chandelure banned, Dialga suspect)
Dark Void still banned
Sleep/OHKO clause on
Item clause off
A possible limit on the number of Ubers per team (Eggy suggested 2)

Thoughts?
 

Laga

Forever Grande
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Well, Palkia and Dialga are both gigantic threats, considering that they both have Telepathy, and Dialga has the amazing typing. I am also of the opinion that the limit on numbers of ubers allowed is pretty silly if you want to name it Uber Doubles.

but yeah, this is the match i had against blank :] He kinda didn't use that many ubers so i feel a bit bad for using 5 :I
 

Pocket

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Guys, keep the discussion in this thread solely on OU Doubles, not some Ubers Doubles with weird-as-fuck rulesets (Unreleased DW abilities allowed? Soul Dew banned? Limit in the number of ubers per team x_x). We really cannot afford to split the playerbase. You're free to discuss Ubers in #doubles and host minitours / challenges, but don't bring it in here.
 

Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
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Alright, what about the potential of Keldeo on Rain teams? The likes of Ferrorthorn, Kyurem-Black and Chansey can cause problems for the primarily special Rain sweepers, but a Fighting Gem Secret Sword can quickly dispose of them. Keldeo can also unleash a beating on Ninetales and Tyranitar even under the unfavorable weather with its other STAB, and resistance to Sucker Punch and Ice Shard is beneficial. While it doesn't get a speed boost from Rain, Keldeo can still function well outside of it thanks to naturally high speed and alternate STAB, and if one is that desperate Icy Wind can be used to slow both opponents down, useful for Latios & whatnot.
 
I like Keldeo, but I haven't found a very suitable niche for it that Kingdra doesn't fill better on Rain Teams (MixedKing is pro as all get out), but perhaps it would be a nice partner to TTar and Cress?
 
It seems like secret sword is the only advantage Keldeo can really boast over any other rain abuser. I see that Ferrothorn, Chansey, Kyurem (not to mention the highly underrated Cradily, whose viability ranking of D seems a little controversial ;) ) are problems for rain without the fighting type coverage but you could just run Hitmontop, who destroys all of these and is generally more useful. If you really wanted a rain-abusing fighting type then you could always use Toxicroak, and Breloom, Conkeldurr etc are always there too. So although they may not abuse rain directly, there are probably better fighting types for rain teams.
 

Laga

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To be honest, Keldeo is not nearly as big of a threat in doubles as in singles. Rain teams should usually consist of the following = Politoed / Swift Swimmer / Something to check bulky water types (which could be ludicolo) / something to shit on Cradily, Ferrothorn and Kyurem-B (other dragons get shat on by ice beam) and then filler / filler. There might be room for Keldeo, but as those things are not dealt with as well as help from Hitmontop or something, Keldeo doesn't always have a spot on rain teams' main offensive core (in fact not even so often). Could ofc use it as a filler, but it's a bit shaky. That is just my opinion.
 

Pocket

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Yep, you guys hit the nail in the head. Keldeo is just outclassed by Kingdra and other Swift Swimmers. The Fighting STAB from Secret Sword isn't particularly a strong selling point when you can easily pair Kingdra with Pokemon like Heracross or Hitmontop to do the same job and more (Secret Sword is a unique, but not a particularly powerful move compared to Close Combat). The prevalence of Latios, Cresselia, Tornadus, and Thundurus doesn't do it any favors, either. It makes sense that its usage is low enough to be UU.
 

Punchshroom

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Quite a pity, as a quick glance in Keldeo's movepool reveals Taunt, Helping Hand and Quick Guard (<-less useful), so Keldeo still has some unique utility to offer Rain. However you're right in that other Fighting-types can support the Rain sweepers better without stacking weaknesses, although it is notable that Keldeo abuses the Rain in a much more offensive manner than any of the other Fighting-types, boasts more power than even the Modest Swift Swimmers, and isn't entirely weather dependant due to its natural speed.

I think Keldeo's best chance of success is being paired with Kingdra, where it can slaughter Ferros, pink blobs, weather changers and Empoleon :/, it could Taunt to stop Trick Room, Tailwind or Dual Screens from ruining everything, or it could Helping Hand to boost Kingdra up to overpower threats like Cresselia or Scrafty while possibly saving itself from a threat like Latios or the Pranskter genies. That or nuking everything with boosted Water attacks alongside Kingdra if all goes well.
 

lucariojr

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has anyone tried fake out mew? it seems to be the only FO 'mon that can feasibly ohko fighting types without being physically frail. also, it has access to neat moves like helping hand, snarl, icy wind, twave and just about everything else.
 

Audiosurfer

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Topic of the Week 6

It's that time again. First, time to give out points from the last one. The award for Best Poster goes to Nollan for multiple in-depth posts on the topic, ranging from solid sets to use to prerequisites for a good Choice user. Other good posters are Blankzero, Lagalag4, lucariojr and Audiosurfer. Lagalag4 talked about what makes a good Choice user as well as how the different choice items stack up against each other. Blankzero and lucariojr showcased various mons that they found effective in utilizing Choice items in the Doubles metagame, and Audiosurfer talked about how the importance of proper EVing becomes even greater when utilizing a Choice item.

Points breakdown:
+3 - Nollan
+2 - Blankzero, Lagalag4, lucariojr, Audiosurfer
+1 - Arcticblast

Time for the new Topic of the Week: Metagame Trends


It's been some time since there has been much discussion in this thread geared towards what some of the top strategies are in this metagame, partially because people are starting to get a better idea of what works and what doesn't. For this topic, try to focus on anything to do with the metagame. That could be particular strategies you've been having success with, underrated sets you've enjoyed, thing that you thought were over/underhyped, etc. This one will probably run longer due to the fact that it's a very large topic. Also, try to make your posts things that can drive discussion as opposed to detached statements. Remember that you can go to the front page and check the leaderboard for the Topic of the Week :)
 
I'm hoping I understood this topic right, if not, well oops.

To be honest, one of the biggest reasons I enjoy Doubles so much is the diversity. You can make so many different things work out, and with two pokemon on the field, all sorts of new combinations and strategies become a possibility (i.e. Beat Up + Justified/Rattled, Swagger + Lum Berry, Storm Drain + Surf). As such, there is no simple answer to what sort of trends there are in the metagame. Still, certain strategies have proven to rise in effectiveness above others. I'll discuss the various strategies and how effective/popular they are (mostly as a starting point, I really do like doing those :>).

~Goodstuff~
This is, of course, the arguably most effective strategy in Smogon Doubles. The first thing I am going to clear up is that Goodstuff does not have to be weatherless. It is easily capable of mixing Sand, Hail, Sun, and Rain into various Goodstuff teams. The big point of Goodstuff is that it is not reliant on any particular strategy, and is (generally) perfectly capable of shifting its playstyle around if need be. It also relies heavily on shutting down the opposing strategy, rather then using one of its own. Common teams of this style tend to shut down opposing strategies with speed control, Taunt, and anti-weather choices (Gastrodon, Sunny Day Cresselia/Ludicolo, etc). They also take a preference to bulkier pokemon, though they have fast attackers for heavy hitting as well. Goodstuff is so diverse there is no specific overall weakness, it really depends on the layout of each specific team in the category.

~Sandstorm~
Sand is a very popular weather in the Doubles metagame, and I see that the majority (or big portion at least) of high-level teams are a Sand + Goodstuff mix, which is admittedly what I tend to run. Now, Sand tends to involve a lot of annoying Rock Slides, which can get haxy, but as I continue, I'm going to ignore that and look at it directly. Sand tends to run Tyranitar with one or two abusers (which can be anything from Excadrill/Landorus to Garchomp/Metagross), then it typically throws in a Rain counter, and support (like Cresselia). The last slot is generally pretty varied, things like Volcarona, Thundurus, or Hitmontop are common examples of 'mons for that slot. When it comes to weaknesses, Rain is the big one, and if you can't handle Rain the Sand team is in pretty bad shape overall.

~Trick Room~
Ever since DPP, Trick Room has always been fairly common, but it is almost never completely dedicated if it is high-level (i.e. the abusers can still function outside of it). The most common uses of it involve mixing it with weathers, hence the popular SandRoom, HailRoom, SunRoom, and RainRoom. It has a lot of flaws however, being that (A) most Trick Room setters despise Bug/Dark/Ghost types, (B) Taunt and Spore can shut it down with proper use, and (C) it only lasts 5 turns, allowing the opponent to stall it out with bulky pokemon. Still, as long as you use it as a tool rather than the engine to your machine, it is going to be a very helpful choice.

~Rain~
The second to highest weather in usage among high-level players (emphasis on the "high-level", I'm not going to discuss how popular Beat Up + Justified is, because it is not popular in "high-level" play), Rain is a fairly effective strategy. One of the most paradoxical things about this strategy is that it actually has difficulty with Sun. Rain vs Sun is probably one of the best types of battles, because it is almost, if not entirely, focused on who wins the weather war. I'm not focusing on how fun certain strategies are to use though, so I'll cut it off there. Rain teams generally have Politoed, one abuser (occasionally two), Breloom/Hitmontop (For Sand), and then its pretty free from there, which is one of the fun things about Rain. I personally enjoy running Gardra (Garchomp + Kingdra) to ease troubles with Sun, and help against Sand some more. It has trouble with Sun, and many Goodstuff teams, since the run Sunny Day often for weather countering. Overly reliant on offense teams (aka Swift Swim spam) are also extra weak to Goodstuff, and dislike Trick Room and Tailwind.

~Tailwind/Speed Control~
This is generally an oversimplication for Goodstuff, but in some cases, teams will use these strategies not to mess with the opponent's, but to boost their own. Still, this is a very vague comcept, and it is basically just a thing you add onto other teams, so I'm not going to go in-depth on it.

~Sun~
The most underrated weather. Sun is a useful playstyle in that it can give trouble to all other weathers, either by Grass-types Chlorophyll abusers, or Fire-types with super-charged STAB. Still, it has trouble in that without Sun, it is particularly weak, which means you are going to have manual Sun along with Ninetales to make the most of it. It is weak to both Sand and Rain, though Rain is going to need to win the weather war to secure a win. I hardly ever use it to my disappointment, so I can't really say much more about it.

~Hail~
Hail is almost never used for the sake of abusing it, rather the ability to shut down other weathers, since Hail is very rare as a weather strategy. It is usually an addition to a Goodstuff team. However, courtesy of Smogon Doubles' altered banlist, we find Kyurem and Kyurem-Black to be wonderful abusers of this weather, firing off powerful STAB Blizzards to decimate the opposition. It has trouble with Sand and Sun, and also despises Steel types in general, so running Fire types like Heatran/Volcarona is a good idea. For those laddering with it, watch out for Stealth Rock, for some reason anyone ranked 1200-1800 is running that :)/).


Now with that long section over with, I'll discuss some starting points for more specific trends. First off:

Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch / Feint
- Wide Guard / Helping Hand
- Fake Out / Fake Out

I choose this set because it has a large number a trends in the metagame. Intimidate is the first (unless we want to count Gems), and it commonly used to reduce overall damage to the team, which is always helpful. This particular trend is now regularly abused by Defiantmons (particularly Bisharp), pressuring and limiting what the opposition can do. Next up, we have speed creeping, which while pretty subtle, I am finding it to become more and more popular amongst high-level players in the metagame. That 8 Spe allows you to jump the common 0/4 Spe Hitmontops, and I'm starting to see 12 Spe and 16 Spe spreads now too, on Bisharp and Metagross as well. Next up we have Close Combat Feint. Feint is cool. Double Protect on that Fake Out? Nice try bro. Though in general this is great for pressuring the opponent, not to mention the new BW mechanics allow it to work even if the foe doesn't Protect, essentially making is a helpful (though weak) priority attack. Then we have Wide Guard, which is a very helpful choice against spread moves. Helping Hand, Fake Out support. Yep, that is a good number of trends that are popular, and for good reason. I would get into trends that shouldn't be popular (TerraCotta), but I'm going to focus on the good rather than the bad for this.

Well, I'll finish up by showing a few (slightly) unique sets I enjoy using:


Sableye @ Mental Herb
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- Taunt
- Will O' Wisp
- Recover

This is a fun utility set that I enjoy using, mostly to troll Thundurus hoping to shut it down. Still, it is perfectly capable of tanking hits, especially ones from burnt physical attackers. It also can shut down Trick Room, and provides Fake Out support without fearing faster Fake Outs, which is helpful (and if memory serves, no other Ghost has Fake Out, even better). If you would prefer more support over more longetivity, you could run something like Sunny Day over Recover, though in that case you would be better off running Sitrus Berry or such.


Scizor @ Bug Gem
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Tailwind
- Protect

Probably not the first time this set has been seen, but I personally enjoy using it, so I thought it was worth a mention (fyi I also like Tailwind Hydreigon and Volcarona). The Bug Gem allows for a 2HKO on even the most physically defensive Cress, which surprisingly cannot be achieved without one. It is generally there for the ability to blow a hole in something after getting Tailwind up, though. Everything else on the set is pretty standard (I use too many of these parenthesis, don't I) .
 
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Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
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I can't make a huge post right now, but one does not simply hop into the Doubles meta without considering Trick Room, both as a playstyle and a threat to prepare for. The sheer ubuquity of this strategy is because battles can be decided very quickly, which is often sufficient for slow, powerful mons to lay waste to the opponent's team before TR wears out, putting the TR user at a great advantage. Partially contributing to TR's success is that the sweepers can basically throw their speed away and focus on bulk instead, allowing them to go toe to toe against faster sweepers and utterly stealing the advantage under the twisted dimensions by packing both better bulk and 'speed'. Really, it is usually how Trick Room manages to override most opposing strategies (weather, Tailwind, spread move spam, Beat Up + Justified) because of their reliance on speed that makes Trick Room as potent as it is, as if to say " you're in my playing field now~".

Trick Room is usually easy to see coming, but that doesn't make it that much easier to stop. Trick Room setters tend to have good bulk, such as Bronzong, Porygon2, Reuniclus, Cresselia, Jellicent, Victini...are difficult to bring down in one turn. They could also have countermeasures to attacks such as Taunt/Encore and Spore with Mental Herb or Lum Berry respectively. Furthermore, these Trick Room setters can either support further from the sidelines or join in the rampage, giving you loads of options to maintain your offensive position as well as you can. Examples include Cresselia/Bronzong's Dual Screen support, Cresselia/Musharna's Helping Hand boost while avoiding Earthquake (or in Mushy's case all self-damaging spread moves), or nuke the living hell out of everything with Victini, Chandelure, or Reuniclus.

A notable trend about Trick Room setters is that, bar a handful, most of them are Ghost or Psychic, making them weak to Dark and Ghost moves. Having teammates to cover this up is a TR team's first priority, and they should have high offensive stats to fully make use of the brief time granted for them to gain the upper hand. Fighting types have naturally high Attack power and low/average speed, while resisting Dark moves to boot, so Fighting types are recommended staples for a TR team. The most powerful of spread moves find themselves on the slowest of pokemon, such as Earthquake Marowak/Rhyperior, Eruption Quiet Heatran, Water Spout anything, most Rock Sliders, or perhaps a handful of viable Blizzard users (obviously Abomasnow will be used for this first before anything else).

Most people think they should just cram TR on every member if possible to constantly be able to restart Trick Room. The thing is, I've been seeing great success with just two Trick Roomers. Since the Trick Roomers have less coverage and are more easily walled than my other sweepers (implying my TRers can fight back, they are Reuniclus and Chandelure after all), I had to make room for pokemon that either helped me get more Trick Room without using more of the move itself, instead opting for moves like Fake Out or Rage Powder or Spore or something to get myself ready. The thing is, if you cram too much Trick Room on your team, you wouldn't have enough options to dispose of troubling opponents that you cannot OHKO.
 
I can't make a huge post right now, but one does not simply hop into the Doubles meta without considering Trick Room, both as a playstyle and a threat to prepare for. The sheer ubuquity of this strategy is because battles can be decided very quickly, which is often sufficient for slow, powerful mons to lay waste to the opponent's team before TR wears out, putting the TR user at a great advantage. Partially contributing to TR's success is that the sweepers can basically throw their speed away and focus on bulk instead, allowing them to go toe to toe against faster sweepers and utterly stealing the advantage under the twisted dimensions by packing both better bulk and 'speed'. Really, it is usually how Trick Room manages to override most opposing strategies (weather, Tailwind, spread move spam, Beat Up + Justified) because of their reliance on speed that makes Trick Room as potent as it is, as if to say " you're in my playing field now~".

Trick Room is usually easy to see coming, but that doesn't make it that much easier to stop. Trick Room setters tend to have good bulk, such as Bronzong, Porygon2, Reuniclus, Cresselia, Jellicent, Victini...are difficult to bring down in one turn. They could also have countermeasures to attacks such as Taunt/Encore and Spore with Mental Herb or Lum Berry respectively. Furthermore, these Trick Room setters can either support further from the sidelines or join in the rampage, giving you loads of options to maintain your offensive position as well as you can. Examples include Cresselia/Bronzong's Dual Screen support, Cresselia/Musharna's Helping Hand boost while avoiding Earthquake (or in Mushy's case all self-damaging spread moves), or nuke the living hell out of everything with Victini, Chandelure, or Reuniclus.

A notable trend about Trick Room setters is that, bar a handful, most of them are Ghost or Psychic, making them weak to Dark and Ghost moves. Having teammates to cover this up is a TR team's first priority, and they should have high offensive stats to fully make use of the brief time granted for them to gain the upper hand. Fighting types have naturally high Attack power and low/average speed, while resisting Dark moves to boot, so Fighting types are recommended staples for a TR team. The most powerful of spread moves find themselves on the slowest of pokemon, such as Earthquake Marowak/Rhyperior, Eruption Quiet Heatran, Water Spout anything, most Rock Sliders, or perhaps a handful of viable Blizzard users (obviously Abomasnow will be used for this first before anything else).

Most people think they should just cram TR on every member if possible to constantly be able to restart Trick Room. The thing is, I've been seeing great success with just two Trick Roomers. Since the Trick Roomers have less coverage and are more easily walled than my other sweepers (implying my TRers can fight back, they are Reuniclus and Chandelure after all), I had to make room for pokemon that either helped me get more Trick Room without using more of the move itself, instead opting for moves like Fake Out or Rage Powder or Spore or something to get myself ready. The thing is, if you cram too much Trick Room on your team, you wouldn't have enough options to dispose of troubling opponents that you cannot OHKO.
Nice point on the benefits, though I would really see some more detail on weaknesses of Trick Room (can't make a solid Trick Room team w/o knowing how to cover the weaknesses, right?). Also, the reliance on speed is not very typical for a good portion of teams, things like Tyranitar and Metagross aren't going to feel very pressured by Trick Room. Reliance on the setters is also imo Trick Room's downfall, anything giving those trouble is often going to give your whole team trouble. And while Taunt/Spore can be stopped by Mental Herb/Lum Berry, this only works once, so they simply have to stall out for five turns, then stop it the next time. The Bug types giving Trick Room trouble, especially Scizor, were also not mentioned. In my view, we are overestimating Trick Room a bit here. Looking at Trick Room overall, it has a lot of weaknesses to take into account, and I am heavily adamant about the over-reliance on the setter being a very problematic thing. I, for one, prefer to be more flexible with my teams, so I try to avoid making the team centered around something. Still, Trick Room can be useful, as long as you don't rely on it too much.
 
One of the bigger trends I've seen among higher tier players is Goodstuffs+Sand or Rain, with either Weather Abusers, or TR/TW as a backup strategy, or Paralysis support. Icy Wind is going away a bit, due to the prevalence of Bisharp. Thundurus-I is getting bulkier overall, and I've gotten a few thanks for posting my spread, as has Pocket I'm sure (I prefer his).

Less Charizards on the ladder too, and Whimsicott, although it's still an annoying little troll when used correctly. I haven't seen too many gimmicky teams as of late, though I did run into a very well played Mono-electric team recently and got stomped by it.

I am seeing less and less Trick Room though. Not sure what's causing that. Maybe people are just getting tired of it, and most folks run Taunt now?
 
One of the bigger trends I've seen among higher tier players is Goodstuffs+Sand or Rain, with either Weather Abusers, or TR/TW as a backup strategy, or Paralysis support. Icy Wind is going away a bit, due to the prevalence of Bisharp. Thundurus-I is getting bulkier overall, and I've gotten a few thanks for posting my spread, as has Pocket I'm sure (I prefer his).

Less Charizards on the ladder too, and Whimsicott, although it's still an annoying little troll when used correctly. I haven't seen too many gimmicky teams as of late, though I did run into a very well played Mono-electric team recently and got stomped by it.

I am seeing less and less Trick Room though. Not sure what's causing that. Maybe people are just getting tired of it, and most folks run Taunt now?
It is probably that people are recognizing the weaknesses in many of the Trick Room teams and taking advantage of that. In my extremely biased opinion, this is a good thing, as it means more people are coming to terms with how to deal with these sorts of things. I also mentioned Goodstuff + Sand, very common strategy, I should know, I use it :D
 
So in the spirit of our Topic of the Week, I made a new team of the 5 most popular Pokemon in Doubles and had 1 glue mon at the end. I give you, The Who's Who of Smogon Doubles:


Shocktop (Hitmontop) @ Fighting Gem
Trait: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 196 HP / 60 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Protect
- Sucker Punch

Genie (Thundurus) @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 20 Spd / 252 HP / 40 SAtk / 196 SDef
Calm Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Darude (Tyranitar) (M) @ Chople Berry
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 160 HP / 48 Def / 48 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Fire Blast

DuckWall (Cresselia) @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Light Screen
- Thunder Wave

Blitzkreig (Excadrill) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Motor (Rotom-Wash) @ Grass Gem
Trait: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 16 SDef / 252 HP / 240 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Protect


Basically, I made this Thundy/Top/TTar/Cress/Excadrill, and filled in the last slot with Rotom-W, just as a quick Rain check, though Gastrodon could fit here as well I suppose. I tried to make the most generic team possible, while covering all the threats currently in existence, while still being a cohesive team that fit my playstyle. Since we also had a topic about Teambuilding recently, as well as EV spreads, Choice Item discussion, etc, I figured I would make an RMT of this, if for nothing else, to give folks a look at a very common team that actually works without a lot of prior knowledge.

I link the RMT here after I complete it, but feel free to comment about the team here, or save your comments for the RMT.
 
I suppose so, though one of the issues about being "generic" is that different people enjoy different playstyles, so for different people, even "generic" is going to be pretty varied.
 

Laga

Forever Grande
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
Oh my gosh, it's going to be Nollan taking home this one too. Great posts coming from this man :D
I'll try writing a bit on the metagame as it is at the moment though.

I am going to try to look at it from a different perspective than Nollan. At the moment, the metagame is shaped a lot by 2 categories that are / can be considered strategies; weather and speed control. There are 4 types of both, and all 8 perform different things. Weather can easily be combined with speed control, and some high-level teams also use more than one type of speed control, just to go even more anti-meta. I would not recommend combining 2 weathers though, as that will basically mean you are having a weather war against yourself.

First, I am going to talk a bit about weather. Here is a short list of pokemon that benefit a lot from the different types of weather, and a brief explanation on why one would use the weather type.

Sandstorm
  • Excadrill: With it's unbanning in the change from OU to doubles, Excadrill now gives Sand teams a huge boost, especially as most of it's threatening moves are spread moves, allowing it to damage both opposing pokemon in one turn. Another important trait is it's immunity to Electric, so no checking this fast mon with Thundurus.
  • Landorus-I: Basically, it is a more powerful, slower Excadrill with more bulk and different typing. It does the exact same thing best as Excadrill does best: spam Earthquake and Rock Slide under Sandstorm.
  • Literally every Rock type: Rock types are usually more physically defensive than specially, but in Sandstorm, they get a nifty 50% boost to their Special Defense, something that is very significant in making these pokemon much harder to take down.
  • Literally everything immune to Sand: residual damage can mean the difference between KO and survival with 2 HP, making Sandstorm a nice little extra damage added to offensive Steel / Rock / Ground types.
Sandstorm is also very liked, considering how large of a threat Tyranitar is in doubles. Tyranitar can effectively both check Trick Room and work in it, whilst also having a powerful STAB spread move in Rock Slide. Sand also helps keep Swift Swim users in check, prevent BlizzSpam and generally just shit on Sun's life.
Rain Dance
  • Swift Swimmers (most notably Kingdra, Ludicolo and Kabutops): DrizzleSwim was deemed to powerful for OU, but it is completely allowed in Doubles. Doubling speed can be very deadly, especially if you are spamming a STAB spread move. The reason why DrizzleSwim is unbanned in doubles is because of all the Trick Room and Thunder Wave flying everywhere, including spread moves doing less damage and of course priority everywhere, most well-built teams should be able to withstand the mighty Swift Swim pokemon.
  • Everything with a Water type move: Water moves are obviously boosted in Rain, making them more threatening.
  • Ferrothorn: that little bitch
  • Pokemon weak to Fire type attacks: Obviously, Rain will help them in surviving the hits.
Rain is very popular due to Water being an above average good typing both offensively and defensively. Also, Politoed has a some cool supporting moves in Helping Hand, Encore, idk Hypnosis or something, and can also be offensive on it's own, boosting it's own STAB like that.

Sunny Day
  • Strong Fire types: Heat Wave spam in Sun can hurt a lot of pokemon hard, whilst their Water weakness is somewhat mitigated by the presence of Sunny Day.
  • Chlorophyll pokemon: It's basically the exact same thing as Swift Swimmers; just without boosted STAB and that they become more weak to Fire (they are all grass types). They do of course kind of shit on Rain teams, which is something Sun teams might struggle with.
  • Victini: too strong.
  • Pokemon weak to Water type attacks: Again, they might survive some more hits.
The reason why Sunny Day is not a very popular weather, is that it struggles a lot against Sandstorm and Rain Dance teams. Another reason is because Ninetales would be a complete waste of a moveslot if not for it's ability. Even worse of a pokemon than Politoed.
Hail

  • Blizzard: strongest spread move in the game; now with perfect accuracy.
  • Abomosnow: with the right spread, it can OHKO Politoed and Tyranitar, and since Hail is used literally just 2 things (blizzard and disrupting other weather), it is a much better pokemon than it's stats look to be.
  • Residual damage.
Yeah that's pretty much it, also worth a mention that Hail goes extremely well with Trick Room because of how anti meta it is. It is anti-meta because you not only get to disrupt all other weather forms, but also get to completely shut down Tailwind / Icy Wind / Thunder Wave teams.
That's it for weathers, now onto Speed Control. This will be notably shorter, since how they work and why the work is like the most obvious information for anyone.
Icy Wind: Being a spread move that lowers both of the opponent's speed stats, you can literally just click Icy Wind constantly whilst sometimes protecting with your ally. Probably the biggest reason why this is such a relevant move is because of the fact that Cresselia has access to it. Cresselia, being such an awesome bulky support pokemon, can easily throw >5 Icy Winds at the opposition, potentially deciding the match.
Trick Room: This is the one form of speed control that simply stands out from the rest. Basically, you need to have almost half a team filled with pokemon pet there just to set it up. Trick Room is susceptible to Taunt, Fake Out and strong Dark / Ghost type attacks. It also has the problem of either the Trick Room setter or the Trick Room supporter (usually an Amoonguss) to become almost complete dead weight once Trick Room has been set up. All this bullshit said, Trick Room is extremely deadly in the right hands. Not only does it completely shut down all other speed control, and seem to last much longer in doubles, it also allows you to invest into bulk over speed, making the entire team extremely hard to take down.
Tailwind: Undoubtedly the easiest speed control to set up. Slow Taunts will miss out on preventing it, it allows both your pokemon to almost always outspeed both opposing pokemon by using a single turn, and it doesn't require frickin Rage Powder. It also has some very good setters in Zapdos, Suicune, Latias, Tornadus and Scizor, and don't even get me started on how many good abusers of it there are. Everything in an awkward speed tier can now outspeed a lot of common threats. For example, with some investment, something like Tyranitar can even outspeed max speed Timid Lati@s. The downsides though, are of course that it lasts for 4 turns (the 4 turns for some reason counting the turn you set it up), is still weak to Prankster Taunt, and faces hard competition from Trick Room teams, and generally frickin hates prankster T-Wave. Which leads to the next form of speed control...
Thunder Wave: Spreading paralysis is much more viable in doubles than in regular singles. Being that 1) Thundurus is now unbanned and 2) it can almost guarenteed be spammed 2 times, as compared to in Singles, where the opponent could stay in, thus giving you more mindgames. Also, it completely shits on Tailwind teams, and Icy Wind teams to an extent. It also helps you hax the shit out of Audiosurfer
Just to comment on Nollan mentioning Goodstuff, I think that anything that targets to shit on other team goal rather than having one yourself is goodstuff, just like you mentioned. But I do think that you can combine goodstuff into almost any one of the speed control or weather categories, if not more than one.
That is all for my post :)
 
Sunny Day
  • Strong Fire types: Heat Wave spam in Sun can hurt a lot of pokemon hard, whilst their Water weakness is somewhat mitigated by the presence of Sunny Day.
  • Chlorophyll pokemon: It's basically the exact same thing as Swift Swimmers; just without boosted STAB and that they become more weak to Fire (they are all grass types). They do of course kind of shit on Rain teams, which is something Sun teams might struggle with.
  • Victini: too strong.
  • Pokemon weak to Water type attacks: Again, they might survive some more hits.
The reason why Sunny Day is not a very popular weather, is that it struggles a lot against Sandstorm and Rain Dance teams. Another reason is because Ninetales would be a complete waste of a moveslot if not for it's ability. Even worse of a pokemon than Politoed.

...(Skipping a bunch of stuff. Now that I think about it, you could literally make fake post quotes with this thing, sorta feel stupid for not realizing that 'til now. :s)

Just to comment on Nollan mentioning Goodstuff, I think that anything that targets to shit on other team goal rather than having one yourself is goodstuff, just like you mentioned. But I do think that you can combine goodstuff into almost any one of the speed control or weather categories, if not more than one.
That is all for my post :)

I disagree with the Rain weakness, as a lot of Sun teams actually give Rain trouble, since Sunny Day tears down the Water type STAB and Chlorophyll 'mons can rip through them with Solarbeam, Giga Drain, etc.
On the point of Goodstuffs, they are as said extremely flexible and I agree that they can fit onto almost anything.

I'll comment briefly on a few growing (in popularity) trends:

Defiant is an uprising trend, especially with the new LandoTop core that people enjoy using. It is great for giving Intimidate and Icy Wind (two other trends) a lot of trouble, and against the right teams, it can completely limit what they can do. Bisharp is probably the most popular abuser of this, followed by Tornadus.

Rage Powder (or Follow Me), while it has always been pretty good, is becoming more and more popular, redirecting status, attacks, or generally pressuring the foe with mind games. Not much else to say, the common abusers of this are Amoonguss, Togekiss, and Volcarona.

Finally, Tailwind is rising a tad in popularity. Many teams are now running Suicune and Togekiss, who provide Tailwind support, and old friends like Tornadus and Zapdos still excel at providing it.
 

Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
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worth a mention that Hail goes extremely well with Trick Room because of how anti meta it is. It is anti-meta because you not only get to disrupt all other weather forms, but also get to completely shut down Tailwind / Icy Wind / Thunder Wave teams.


Just to comment on Nollan mentioning Goodstuff, I think that anything that targets to shit on other team goal rather than having one yourself is goodstuff, just like you mentioned. But I do think that you can combine goodstuff into almost any one of the speed control or weather categories, if not more than one.
That is all for my post :)
This. Good man.

Also, I though goodstuffs were things like Garchomp, Zapdos, Togekiss, Cress, Hitmontop, Hydreigon, Breloom....things that generally work well in and out of weather...?
 
This. Good man.

Also, I though goodstuffs were things like Garchomp, Zapdos, Togekiss, Cress, Hitmontop, Hydreigon, Breloom....things that generally work well in and out of weather...?
"Goodstuff" is simply a term for a team designed to counteract the foe's strategy and then (usually) finish him off with powerful attacks. You can see it everywhere. For example, running Gastrodon on a Sand team is a common Goodstuff aspect, allowing you to give the Rain team a lot of difficulty. While it is true the majority of Goodstuff pokemon do not require weather to function, Excadrill, among others, is an example of a pokemon that can be used to clean up after a Goodstuff team has done its job. Overall, Goodstuff is more of a "playstyle" (my favorite I should add) rather than a team strategy. Leading into that, I might as well cover the basic playstyles.

Goodstuff
Already explained above, but it is basically a counteractive playstyle where you focus on the opponent's strategy rather than your own. The most flexible playstyle (and strategy), Goodstuff can often be mixed with other playstyles.

Fast-Paced (or Direct) Offense
The typical playstyle for most Trick Room and Tailwind teams, it revolves around getting your overall strategy put into place, and then letting the opponent have all of it. Pretty simple, but still pretty effective. If the team is not built carefully, this playstyle will despise Goodstuff, so keep that in mind.

Bulky Offense
Most of these teams will be mixed with Goodstuff, they tend to involve tanking hits and hitting back harder, and almost always pack things like Cresselia and Thundurus. Speed control is a big factor in these (Thunder Wave, Icy Wind, etc). Common attackers include things like Metagross and Hitmontop (Intimidate is common for tanking more hits). Most also have fast attackers in the back, sometimes you will need those.

Stall
Probably The worst playstyle for Doubles (unless you count Magikarp spam), Stall is more or less ineffective. Note that in Doubles, this playstyle is not going to be "click Recover as Toxic takes things out", it is usually spamming Toxic, Thunder Wave, Will O' Wisp and the likes while using Protect and clever switches to ware the foe down. You will want a clean up pokemon in the back (if you are brave/noob enough to try this), so that you can finish off the worn down threats.

That is about it, note that weather can fall into almost any of these categories, based on how you abuse it.
 
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