General Dubs Meta Discussion II

#1
Doubles
shameless C+P from the old thread



Ever since ADV, doubles has steadily gained headway into the competitive Pokemon scene. Every generation GameFreak has refined the Doubles metagame and by the fifth generation it has ripened considerably. It's a shame that the only widely supported version of this format (VGC) is one over which the players have no control! However, with the awesome Pokemon Showdown! now supporting Doubles format, we now have all the tools necessary to mold our own version of the format that made VGC so popular and help shape our own Standard Doubles metagame!

THE RULES

Moderator's Note: Do not use this thread to directly compare Smogon Doubles to VGC. You can certainly talk about VGC strategies and how they can be applied to Smogon Doubles, but do not use this thread to bicker about the differences between the two metagames.
Note that, rather than following many of the conventions which Nintendo and VGC have laid out, we will be experimenting and setting new rules and bans, so many things are slightly different. Here are some noteworthy difference from the ruleset of current VGC 2013:
1) 6 vs 6 instead of 4 vs 4
2) Pokemon default level 100 instead of level 50
3) Sleep Clause ON
4) Item Clause OFF
5) OHKO Clause ON
6) Evasion Clause ON
7) Soul Dew Clause ON
8) Moody Clause ON
9) The following moves are banned from play​
  • Dark Void
  • Sky Drop
10) The following Pokemon are banned from play​
  • Mewtwo
  • Lugia
  • Ho-oh
  • Kyogre
  • Groudon
  • Rayquaza
  • Dialga
  • Palkia
  • Giratina, Giratina-O
  • Arceus
  • Reshiram
  • Zekrom
  • Kyurem-White
As you may have figured out by now, this will be a drastically different metagame from the more familiar VGC metagame. VGC knowledge will certainly be beneficial, but a handful of new additional battle pieces will certainly alter the face of Doubles.

DOUBLES BASICS

The true gem of Doubles does not lie in such minute differences in rulesets - it's the various strategies that are born and made viable by the virtue of having an additional partner and an extra opponent on the battle field simultaneously. Such battle setting results in a fast and furious play unimaginable in Singles play. If you think you have time to dilly dally with setting up hazards and some brainless volt-turn spam, think again! Since so much happens in a span of a single turn, on-the-spot decision making and intuition are tested heavily in Doubles. A thrilling new challenge unfounded in Singles!

Another major appeal of Doubles is the increased viability and deeper nuances of Pokemon moves. Here are some quick overview of such moves:

Protect - Undoubtedly the most important move in Doubles; it shields whatever moves targeted at the user and without the need to blindly switch out and let another one of your Pokemon to take a hit, too! A well-executed Protect means wasted turns for the opponent, whose attacks utterly fail to do anything while your other Pokemon can ideally take the attacker out. Protect also shield your Pokemon against Fake Out flinches, a devastating move in Double. Stalling out Tailwind or TR turns serve as another purpose for using Protect.

Feint - With Protect being such a pivotal move in Doubles, it's no wonder that a counter-move in Feint would see some use! It comes in handy when you need to connect with the target Pokemon on that turn NO MATTER WHAT.

Fake Out - This is another prevalent move in Doubles, and it's a game-breaking one, too. A super-priority flinch move renders one of the opponent's Pokemon immobile and vulnerable to assaults. Just like in Singles, Fake Out can be seen from a mile away, but the Fake Out user can actually take advantage of this, forcing the opponent to use Protect. Fake Out's greater utility in Doubles in turn increases the value of Inner Focus.

Spread Moves - These moves target multiple Pokemon - some only affect both enemies while other spread moves also catches your ally, too. Such distinctions make otherwise obscure moves in Singles, such as Heat Wave and Rock Slide, to have a specific niche in Doubles!

All spread moves's base power is reduced by 75% (so Earthquake is a 75 bp Ground type move, while Blizzard is a 90 bp Ice type move), but this power reduction is more than compensated by hitting more than one target.


Notable Spread Moves that Targets Only Enemies
  • Blizzard & Icy Wind
  • Rock Slide
  • Heat Wave & Eruption
  • Muddy Water & Water Spout
  • Dark Void (banned)
Notable Spread Moves that Target Enemies and Ally alike
  • Explosion & Selfdestruct
  • Earthquake
  • Lava Plume
  • Surf
  • Discharge

Wide Guard / Quick Guard - BW has added new protection moves to doubles. Unlike Protect, these Guard moves protect both the user AND the ally from spread moves and priority moves, respectively. This means that one Pokemon can guard for Earthquake or Fake Outs, thereby wasting the opponent's turn, while its partner can go on the offensive.

Helping Hand - A move designed specifically for Doubles, this move boosts the power of the user's ally by 50% for one turn, which can change a 2HKO into a OHKO. Such a difference is significant in Doubles, as knocking out the opponent effectively means cutting down on the opponent's offense by half for that turn. Thus, Helping Hand user pairs nicely with a fast Sweeper like Thundurus or Latios. Helping Hand has +5 priority, so the helper can be a bulky supporter like Cresselia.

Follow Me / Rage Powder - Another move tailored for Doubles, but this time all non-spread moves are re-directed to the user of Follow Me or Rage Powder, thereby keeping its partner untouched. Spread moves like Blizzard and Earthquake still hits both users, though. This move comes in handy when you are trying to set up with your other Pokemon. This support move has +3 priority, so this user can even redirect fast priorities barring faster Fake Outs to itself!

Tailwind / Icy Wind / Trick Room - Similarly to Singles, having the first move is almost always more advantageous than attacking second. Tailwind, Icy Wind, and Trick Room are prevalent moves to control Speed and attack first. Even though 4-5 turns go awfully quick in Singles to do anything productive, in Doubles it is usally half the game or more! Icy Wind is also an amazing utility move, a spread move that drops both enemies' Speed by one stage.

Offensive Moves Benefiting Partners - Most of the times your Pokemon will be throwing moves at the two enemy Pokemon, but moves exist that benefit the partner instead, similarly to the previously mentioned Helping Hand​
  • Swagger aimed at Partner holding Persim/Lum Berry
  • Beat Up used at Justified partner
  • Surf hitting Storm Drain/Water Absorb/Dry Skin partner
  • Discharge hitting Lightningrod/Volt Absorb partner
  • Gastro Acid aimed at Truant partner

It's Official!

...well, it will be! Once X and Y come around, Doubles will be an official Smogon-endorsed metagame! For now, we can still discuss whatever we want about the metagame here. It's only going to get better from here on out!

And what's a Now Playing thread without a song?
 
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Stratos

Banned deucer.
#3
Just saying, as soon as we don't have anything broken to test (which is hopefully as soon as gen VI starts) i want the tiering council (whoever that is) to be considering sleep clause.
 

lucariojr

MS State Pokemon!!!
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#4
since i wanted to comment on dtc's skymin post, imma post it here;

skymin seems pretty interesting; it can ohko tyranitar and politoed with grass gem leaf storm or seed flare (seed flare has a 50% chance to ohko though) and outspeed said tyranitar should it have a scarf. it also smacks hitmontop for nice damage, possibly ohkoing faster variants and straight up walls breloom and of course ohkos that as well. the only problems i can really see with it is that it can't deal with trick room at all and it gets crapped on by icy wind/tailwind stuff like togekiss and cress. those two problems will probably keep it out of ubers, but i could easily see it becoming a problem with its fast flinches.

and im all for testing sleep clause, but it still seems a little early imo.
 
#6
skymin seems pretty interesting; it can ohko tyranitar and politoed with grass gem leaf storm or seed flare (seed flare has a 50% chance to ohko though) and outspeed said tyranitar should it have a scarf. it also smacks hitmontop for nice damage, possibly ohkoing faster variants and straight up walls breloom and of course ohkos that as well. the only problems i can really see with it is that it can't deal with trick room at all and it gets crapped on by icy wind/tailwind stuff like togekiss and cress. those two problems will probably keep it out of ubers, but i could easily see it becoming a problem with its fast flinches.
Skymin learns Tailwind too, so it isn't completely screwed by opposing Tailwind teams. Regardless, bird-hedgehog's biggest problems lie in minor 4MSS and its utter lack of spread moves (besides Air Cutter), meaning that despite its raw power and hax-o-rama skills, it can't net KOs very often. Its average bulk and poor defensive typing prevents it from being much of a support Pokemon too, getting KO'd by a light breeze.
 
#7
Well, I'm curious as to what this thread is going to be for before Gen VI, but so far nothing seems to be happening :(.
...and then I read this is about discussing whatever, so I'm going to discuss threads. To be honest, one question, will we be making threads for Topic of the Week, Ladder Challenges, and all that once Gen VI gets underway?
 

Joim

Pixels matter
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#9
Marty D, our bug catcher, insists that the glitch is NOT fixed on BW2 and that the video is not demonstrative. Nollan, we'll make this the most awesome metagame :)

Sleep Clause would be an interesting test. I personally like that you can't spam Scarf Butterfry / Breloom like in VGC, but on the other hand we have Safeguard...
 

Laga

Forever Grande
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#10
@Nollan, of you want to make threads, just ask for an approval from Level-51, Joim or Pocket; I blame our new C&C for taking up all of our time ;p

Arcticblast edit: wow way to forget me ;_;
 
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#11
Urgh I don't really like the dobules "artwork". I was wondering if it could get a redo?

I am really really excited about doubles being an official meta though. I teambuit on irc one day and since then I have become a huge fan of the tier! :)
 

nyttyn

From Now On, We'll...
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#12
Marty D, our bug catcher, insists that the glitch is NOT fixed on BW2 and that the video is not demonstrative. Nollan, we'll make this the most awesome metagame :)

Sleep Clause would be an interesting test. I personally like that you can't spam Scarf Butterfry / Breloom like in VGC, but on the other hand we have Safeguard...
Well then I'd like to see some replays, because we quite demonstrably proved that Sky Drop was, indeed, fixed in BW2. You can see it in the replays that have been linked, and you can even go ingame and use those codes to see for yourself. If he is attempting it on the Battle Subway, there have been reports it is still broken there - but the Battle Subway is utterly irrelevant to us.


Sleep Guard would indeed be interesting, but at the same time it has a high potential to centralize the metagame.
 

Joim

Pixels matter
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#13
Urgh I don't really like the dobules "artwork". I was wondering if it could get a redo?

I am really really excited about doubles being an official meta though. I teambuit on irc one day and since then I have become a huge fan of the tier! :)
It'd be great to have more art :>
 

Pocket

be the upgraded version of me
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#14
Dont hate on Bummer's manly and cute logo smfh

Well, I'm curious as to what this thread is going to be for before Gen VI, but so far nothing seems to be happening :(.
...and then I read this is about discussing whatever, so I'm going to discuss threads. To be honest, one question, will we be making threads for Topic of the Week, Ladder Challenges, and all that once Gen VI gets underway?
Nollan, I renamed the thread, b/c it was misleading. This isn't a suspect thread, just a General Metagame Discussion thread that carried over from the previous mega thread. You may continue resuming any discussion taking place in the previous thread or simply discuss something new.

Skymin can be a really effective Pokemon in Doubles, but it needs to pick its partners wisely. I would personally pair it with fast teammates that disposes Skymin's checks. This way, the partner can eliminate Skymin's checks before they can knock it out. Darkrai @ Dark Gem / Life Orb, for instance, can eliminate Latias, Latios, Chandelure, and Cresselia. Darkrai can also run Spacial Rend for other Dragons and HP Fire for Scizor, etc. In the mean time Skymin can blast through Darkrai's checks - Tyranitar with Seed Flare, Fighting-types with Air Slash, and Heatran with Earth Power, etc.
 

Marty

Always more to find
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#15
Well then I'd like to see some replays, because we quite demonstrably proved that Sky Drop was, indeed, fixed in BW2. You can see it in the replays that have been linked, and you can even go ingame and use those codes to see for yourself. If he is attempting it on the Battle Subway, there have been reports it is still broken there - but the Battle Subway is utterly irrelevant to us.
Sky Drop + Gravity is the second thing I tested in B2W2 after Sheer Force + Life Orb to see if they were changed, and neither of them were. Your video proves nothing because you didn't let turn 2 end before knocking out Minun; if you had, you would have seen it would be unable to make a move as long as Tornadus was active and hadn't completed any two-turn move.
 
#16
Sky Drop + Gravity is the second thing I tested in B2W2 after Sheer Force + Life Orb to see if they were changed, and neither of them were. Your video proves nothing because you didn't let turn 2 end before knocking out Minun; if you had, you would have seen it would be unable to make a move as long as Tornadus was active and hadn't completed any two-turn move.
I'd be totally willing to test it again if you think we need to.
 

nyttyn

From Now On, We'll...
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#17
Sky Drop + Gravity is the second thing I tested in B2W2 after Sheer Force + Life Orb to see if they were changed, and neither of them were. Your video proves nothing because you didn't let turn 2 end before knocking out Minun; if you had, you would have seen it would be unable to make a move as long as Tornadus was active and hadn't completed any two-turn move.
I apologize if this is indeed the case, as I had seen no documentation of the glitch that states that is how it functions. I will test it again with Blank, as as far as I was aware the move was glitched under different circumstances.
 

doughboy

backhand slap ready
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#18
What do you guys think of Iron Ball weather starters? You get a lot more mileage out of an otherwise shitty item because it serves the dual purpose of A. getting your team started on the right foot for the weather and b. makes sure you have a TR sweeper that can outspeed nearly everything under TR. Abomasnow and Tyranitar are the ones who can pull this off to the greatest effect because of their decent STABS and good attacking power. While Tyranitar may have higher attack, Abomasnow's higher base power, better-attacking-typed Blizzard can make it a more potent offensive threat. For example:

Tyranitar (M) @ Iron Ball
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 28 SAtk / 44 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Tyranitar is one of the coolest Pokemon to place on Trick Room teams because it can remove Cresselia quite easily while disrupting the opposing weather at the same time. Tyanitar makes an excellent lure with Ice Beam combined with 28 Sp. Atk EV's because it can take out no-investment HP Landorus-T if it comes in to impair your attacks. Rock Slide is an excellent additional STAB move because it is a spread move and because it can get some flinches on the opponent if spammed (very few other Tyranitars can do that). The HP EV's guareetee gives you the highest chance of surviving two Max+ Sp. Atk Surfs from Politoed in sandstorm (7%) while keeping max attack, which will nearly always be up with Iron Ball.
 
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Joim

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#19
Given the evidence, I'm rebanning Sky Drop for gen 5.

What do you guys think of Iron Ball weather starters? You get a lot more mileage out of an otherwise shitty item because it serves the dual purpose of A. getting your team started on the right foot for the weather and b. makes sure you have a TR sweeper that can outspeed nearly everything under TR. Abomasnow and Tyranitar are the ones who can pull this off to the greatest effect because of their decent STABS and good attacking power. While Tyranitar may have higher attack, Abomasnow's higher base power, better-attacking-typed Blizzard can make it a more potent offensive threat. For example:

Tyranitar (M) @ Iron Ball
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 28 SAtk / 44 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Tyranitar is one of the coolest Pokemon to place on Trick Room teams because it can remove Cresselia quite easily while disrupting the opposing weather at the same time. Tyanitar makes an excellent with Ice Beam combined with 28 Sp. Atk EV's because it can take out no-investment HP Landorus-T if it comes in to impair your attacks. Rock Slide is an excellent additional STAB move because it is a spread move and because it can get some flinches on the opponent if spammed (very few other Tyranitars can do that). The HP EV's guareetee gives you the highest chance of surviving two Max+ Sp. Atk Surfs from Politoed in sandstorm (7%) while keeping max attack, which will nearly always be up with Iron Ball.
This is a very interesting tactic. While you lose a berry or a gem, it sensures you will win the weather war and that you have an awesome sweeper in Trick Room. Tyranitar is a Cresselia-eating beast and this set can take by surprise TR Cresselias easily.
 
#20
What do you guys think of Iron Ball weather starters? You get a lot more mileage out of an otherwise shitty item because it serves the dual purpose of A. getting your team started on the right foot for the weather and b. makes sure you have a TR sweeper that can outspeed nearly everything under TR. Abomasnow and Tyranitar are the ones who can pull this off to the greatest effect because of their decent STABS and good attacking power. While Tyranitar may have higher attack, Abomasnow's higher base power, better-attacking-typed Blizzard can make it a more potent offensive threat. For example:

Tyranitar (M) @ Iron Ball
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 28 SAtk / 44 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Tyranitar is one of the coolest Pokemon to place on Trick Room teams because it can remove Cresselia quite easily while disrupting the opposing weather at the same time. Tyanitar makes an excellent lure with Ice Beam combined with 28 Sp. Atk EV's because it can take out no-investment HP Landorus-T if it comes in to impair your attacks. Rock Slide is an excellent additional STAB move because it is a spread move and because it can get some flinches on the opponent if spammed (very few other Tyranitars can do that). The HP EV's guareetee gives you the highest chance of surviving two Max+ Sp. Atk Surfs from Politoed in sandstorm (7%) while keeping max attack, which will nearly always be up with Iron Ball.
I've been trying out a SunRoom team with Iron Ball Ninetales recently. Didn't work out as well as hoped unfortunately. :[
 
#21
I remember Iron Ball Politoed and Ninetales being really common in the metagame's early stages, but to me they never seemed to pull their weight. Iron Ball Toed is a nasty surprise for Tyranitar, but not much else.
 

Audiosurfer

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#22
Ok, discussion has kind of slowed down recently (probably w/ everyone focusing on new C&C subforum) so I figured I'd talk more on something I brought up in the old Doubles thread (I'll quote it to make it easier for those who didn't see/don't remember it):
One thing I remember bringing up in #doubles a while back was how according to the 1850 stats, Tyranitar is actually being used more than Politoed. The reason I found this so interesting was that towards the beginning of the tier's inception a lot of people thought Sand was just Excadrill.team and wasn't as powerful as the other weathers, something these stats seem to disprove. I've actually been using a Sand team recently to a lot of success, and I think it's probably the best weather right now due to how resilient it is. While other team types can have really good and really bad matchups, a well-built sand team can have really nice matchups across the board and is just a generally solid team type. This also goes for goodstuff teams since a lot of good Sand teams are just Goodstuff + Tyranitar anyways.
I think that this is something that can be really underappreciated by some people who lean more towards Rain or Hail teams to have more Pokemon that can take advantage of DrizzleSwim or Blizzspam, but the consistency that Sand or just general Goodstuff teams have are their biggest strength. Sand in particular is something I love to use since Tyranitar is just so useful (good spread move, hits Trick Room setters, shuts off opposing weather, recoil breaking sashes etc.) Here's the Sand team that I was talking about in previous posts (most people in #doubles have either see the team in action or faced it anyways).

Anyways, the question that I'd like to pose to you all is something more open-ended so hopefully everyone has something they can contribute. What are some things you've used and had success with? Can be strategies, Pokemon, sets, etc. so long as it's something you think is interesting and that has worked for you.
 
#23
I've had all sorts of success with multiple team archtypes, as well as goodsuffs teams, weather, etc. One thing I noticed is that using Tyranitar on a non-dedicated weather team or goodstuffs team is probably the best way to run it. While a lot of teams will opt to run Excadrill or Landorus, you aren't completely limited to JUsT running Sand every match, and can even use it merely as a check to SwiftSwim teams if you want.

Some other things I've had a lot of success with:

Thundurus-I: This is a no brainer, but Thundy has been on 90% of the teams I've built lately. Bulky Thundurus is such a champ and counters so many playstyles, while being bulky as crap and powerful without a lot of investment.

Suicune+Breloom Core/Lead: I know this is a weird one but I can't get over how good this core works (Thanks Laga!). With Water/Ice/Grass coverage, you hit a ton of things hard, and with access to Tailwind, Roar, Spore and Priority between them, you check about half the metagame easily, from Trick Room to Weather. Roar especially destroys Trick Room handily, which is a huge bonus for any Tailwind team.

Fast Top: I've recently tried using the 252 Jolly Hitmontop and I find it actually pretty good. It doesn't hit quite as hard as Adamant Bulky Top, but it will almost always win that "Speed Tie" everyone freaks about, and it now ties with Jolly Breloom, who gets easily OHKO'd by Gem CC. It also completely stomps the vast majority of Bisharp spreads (most run a lot of bulk) and also OHKOs. Additionally, it never gets outsped by the random Fast TTar unless Scarfed. Overall, I find Fast Top to be great on the right team.
 

Laga

Forever Grande
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#24
I personally don't really like the idea of Fast Hitmontop. First of all, Fast T-Tar outspeeding you or not is completely irrelevant, as Tyranitar cannot do anything to Hitmontop, especially because of Intimidate.

Anyways, some interesting things I have tried out and found working well are as follows:

Follow Me Jirachi: USE THIS THING. As most of the common Doubles players should know by now, Jirachi receives Follow Me from an event. This makes it a great supporter to almost any teammate, but when you look at it's typing it gets better. Resistances to Dragon and Ice type moves allows it to tank Draco Meteor and Ice Beams - some of the best offensive moves in the metagame due to the typing and power - for you teammates that are weak to it.

Bisharp: Anti-Metagame. aka Goodstuff (in doubles). A team goal / strategy that seeks to shut down the most dangerous and powerful strategies in the metagame through disruption, pressure or defensive synergy. Bisharp fits this strategy extremely well, as it pressures two very potent strategies; Icy Wind spam and Intimidate spam. These moves will give you a boost instead of just a stat drop, and it takes like literally no damage from either of them (Initimidate doesn't damage, Icy Wind is resisted). It only gets better. Due to it's STAB Sucker Punch, it becomes even more threatening than before. +1 Dark Gem-boosted Sucker Punch will OHKO many notable things such as Kingdra and Landorus-T, taking full use of its ability.

SubProtect Heatran: With the right support, this set dominates any team bar Rain teams. The point of Substitute is that usually, half of the opposing team cannot do 25% to Heatran due to its bulk combined with its plethora of useful resistances and immunity. Also, once your sub is up, you are "susceptible" to double attacking. Nope, you have that Protect for those.
Usually, it will require a lot of support though; Fake Out and Wide Guard are so extremely useful, and Sunny Day is a must-have unless you are running Ninetales (which sux). Must-try alongside a Hitmontop.

Hitmontop: Sorry, I know everyone should know by now that this is a good pokemon, but I believe it to probably be the best Pokemon in the entire metagame. Intimidate + Fake Out + Wide Guard is as anti-meta as it gets, and with a powerful Close Combat to back up its utility and bulk, it will almost certainly support your team well, and usually nab a KO whilst doing so.

As you can see, over half of these Pokemon are built for goodstuff teams. And that is because I personally think that goodstuff is the most viable strategy in the current Doubles metagame. The ability for many Pokemon to be both supportive and offensive with the same set (Hitmontop, Thundurus, Rotom-W and more), and even check many opposing strategies will let you have a good shot at winning most battles.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
#25
One thing I remember bringing up in #doubles a while back was how according to the 1850 stats, Tyranitar is actually being used more than Politoed. The reason I found this so interesting was that towards the beginning of the tier's inception a lot of people thought Sand was just Excadrill.team and wasn't as powerful as the other weathers, something these stats seem to disprove.

I think that this is something that can be really underappreciated by some people who lean more towards Rain or Hail teams to have more Pokemon that can take advantage of DrizzleSwim or Blizzspam, but the consistency that Sand or just general Goodstuff teams have are their biggest strength. Sand in particular is something I love to use since Tyranitar is just so useful (good spread move, hits Trick Room setters, shuts off opposing weather, recoil breaking sashes etc.) Here's the Sand team that I was talking about in previous posts (most people in #doubles have either see the team in action or faced it anyways).
of course Tyranitar is higher, as it should be. It's been the top of the VGC stats for as long as they've been collecting them. This doesn't mean that a well built sand team is better in any way than a well built rain team or that sand is 'the best weather' or whatever, it just means that tyranitar fits on more teams. Rain teams are a pretty specific archetype, but Tyranitar is a good fit for any team that neither abuses nor likes getting abused by rain. Calling every team with a tyranitar a 'sand team' is as ridiculous as calling every team with a scizor in ou a 'scizor team.' Sure, sand has other minor benefits—excadrill, broken sashes, and a spd boost on other rocks (ie terrak and rhyperior) but the main reason you're using it is because you don't want to be violated by everyone with a Kingdra.

Thundurus-I: This is a no brainer, but Thundy has been on 90% of the teams I've built lately. Bulky Thundurus is such a champ and counters so many playstyles, while being bulky as crap and powerful without a lot of investment.
y'all balked when i said thundy-i for s rank, but i'm gonna let the analyses do the talking. Quickly peruse them and see just how many times Thundurus appears in the checks and counters section. (alternatively you could ask cybertron if thundurus is a good pokemon)

Suicune+Breloom Core/Lead: I know this is a weird one but I can't get over how good this core works (Thanks Laga!). With Water/Ice/Grass coverage, you hit a ton of things hard, and with access to Tailwind, Roar, Spore and Priority between them, you check about half the metagame easily, from Trick Room to Weather. Roar especially destroys Trick Room handily, which is a huge bonus for any Tailwind team.
I personally havent able to make breloom work :(. You need to baby it so much because it can't stomach even strong resisted hits, and when i tried using it, i found that it rarely even got off more than one mach punch and a couple protects. Spore and Bullet Seed went entirely unused because (even though it was a tailwind team) there was always something ready to outspeed and OHKO. I'd give it another chance, but never on a team with Ttar or Abomasnow, because it's utter shit without Sash.

Laga said:
SubProtect Heatran: With the right support, this set dominates any team bar Rain teams. The point of Substitute is that usually, half of the opposing team cannot do 25% to Heatran due to its bulk combined with its plethora of useful resistances and immunity. Also, once your sub is up, you are "susceptible" to double attacking. Nope, you have that Protect for those.
Usually, it will require a lot of support though; Fake Out and Wide Guard are so extremely useful, and Sunny Day is a must-have unless you are running Ninetales (which sux). Must-try alongside a Hitmontop.
imo with 3 layers of wreck teams it can really spikes support voltturn

I'm sorry, I had to, the buzzwords here were just calling my name. however, i agree that a heatran behind a sub is a very scary force. This is true for every pokemon, but since tran really only needs two moves (ep/heat wave), it can abuse the subprotect strategy well.

Hitmontop: Sorry, I know everyone should know by now that this is a good pokemon, but I believe it to probably be the best Pokemon in the entire metagame. Intimidate + Fake Out + Wide Guard is as anti-meta as it gets, and with a powerful Close Combat to back up its utility and bulk, it will almost certainly support your team well, and usually nab a KO whilst doing so.
top is really good at one thing and that's making the first couple turns hell. When my opponent has a hitmontop, I feel like any lead is a bad lead, between fake out, intimidate, and STAB fighting moves. However, by turn 3, he's run his course in most battles, unless his Fake Out or Intimidate is needed one more time before he dies. At any rate, I wouldn't call him the best Pokemon in the metagame, but he's a solid supporter.
 

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