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General Metagame Discussion Thread

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no metagame discussion in quite a while. My impression after playing for 3 months is, I don't really like Gen 5 meta. Most teams are now stallish with one set up sweeper (calm minder or a swords dance arceus). Moreover, the addition of Ferrothorn has worsen the Kyogre centralization. More than being a "counter" (check more like it), it is usually paired up with it so they cover each other weaknesses and entry hazards just keep racking up. I only see 1 good offensive team for every other 8 teams I battle. I'm waiting for DW to happen so that Chandelure mix things a bit (potential counter to Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Foretress, Groudon, Normal Arceus and maybe pink blobs if you count trick as a "counter").

Discuss
 
I feel as though every other team in Ubers is: Kyogre/ Ferrothron/ Tentacruel/ Giratina-O with two fillers. Its making it incredibly boring. The overcentrilization in Ubers is worse than in OU
 
dunno about OU, I know it's not the greatest meta either but this ubers meta is worse than the old Gen IV kyogre/scizor/jirachi core. Ferrothorn is even better against Lati@s and double switching is just gonna wear down your Kyogre check. Who wants to use Zekrom when Ferrothorn laughs at it (ok, maybe not to the hone claws set but if you see lefties then you know sub is coming)?
 
Cloud 8 said:
I feel as though every other team in Ubers is: Kyogre/ Ferrothron/ Tentacruel/ Giratina-O with two fillers. Its making it incredibly boring. The overcentrilization in Ubers is worse than in OU
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Really? Personally, most of the teams that I've been facing these days have gotten more offensive, I've been seeing a lot more Wobbuffets, DD Rayquazas and Darkrais.
 
shrang said:
Really? Personally, most of the teams that I've been facing these days have gotten more offensive, I've been seeing a lot more Wobbuffets, DD Rayquazas and Darkrais.
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I will agree with Shrang here, I admit there was a period of time when FerrOgre was everywhere (damn Trickroom) but now they are relatively less seen and offense is gaining ground now.
 
TentaFerro still exists though, but as Shrang and barry said, Offense is getting a lot more common at the moment.
 
Oh. I haven't played recently, just because that combination was so boring. Its good the tier is starting to branch out.
 
TentaFerro still exists though, but as Shrang and barry said, Offense is getting a lot more common at the moment.
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Meh I still see a ton of stall around, I think everyone's just trying offense just to play a different style stall bores everyone right now lol. Also quickstall/semistall has also become more common! Any opinions on the other styles?
 
Mr.lol said:
Meh I still see a ton of stall around, I think everyone's just trying offense just to play a different style stall bores everyone right now lol. Also quickstall/semistall has also become more common! Any opinions on the other styles?
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I'd say that although Offense is getting common, the dominant style I've been facing (and one that I use most) is balance or bulky offense. Some people call it semi stall but I think its actually the same thing. With Arceus around, I think Balance will be the prevalent style in BW Ubers. However, personally I believe every, yes every, style works to be honest. If you can use that style well enough and are a decent player, you can get any style to work be it offense or stall or balance or whatever the hell really. I'd say, the reason why a certain style becomes dominant is because that it becomes relatively easy to use in the current metagame.
 
One Pokemon who I've had a lot of success with in Ubers is Blaziken. With sub neing much more successful in Ubers than OU where he once resided, Blaziken can completely sweep given the right circumstances. With Wobbufet giving Blaziken the chance to set up through Encore, (Uber or no, Wobb is still awesome) Blaziken can completely wreck. I run SD, Flare Blitz, HJK, and Stone Edge (with Wide Lens because of Stone Miss and HJK hax) and there is literally nothing I cant demolish save for Priority users, Defensive Giratina-A, and Multiscale Lugia. Totally underrated.
 
Spenstar said:
One Pokemon who I've had a lot of success with in Ubers is Blaziken. With sub neing much more successful in Ubers than OU where he once resided, Blaziken can completely sweep given the right circumstances. With Wobbufet giving Blaziken the chance to set up through Encore, (Uber or no, Wobb is still awesome) Blaziken can completely wreck. I run SD, Flare Blitz, HJK, and Stone Edge (with Wide Lens because of Stone Miss and HJK hax) and there is literally nothing I cant demolish save for Priority users, Defensive Giratina-A, and Multiscale Lugia. Totally underrated.
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The little problem with Blaziken is that he suffers from move syndrome. If you run the set that he's using, then Blaziken is gonna have a hard time setting up, since 1. due to ubers being such an offensive metagame and blaziken's kinda okish defensive typing and 2. they could switch into something (like a scarfed poke) which outspeeds it, even with a +1 boost. If u use Protect/SD/FB/HJK then there's no way which you can hit threats like Rayquaza or Lugia. Finally, if u use Protect/HJK/FB/SE then you lack the sheer power that SD gives to you (with SD, you can OHKO Kyogre but without you can only 2HKO it)

I'm not saying that Blaziken is bad, no way, i'm just pointing out his flaws.
 
Spenstar said:
One Pokemon who I've had a lot of success with in Ubers is Blaziken. With sub neing much more successful in Ubers than OU where he once resided, Blaziken can completely sweep given the right circumstances. With Wobbufet giving Blaziken the chance to set up through Encore, (Uber or no, Wobb is still awesome) Blaziken can completely wreck. I run SD, Flare Blitz, HJK, and Stone Edge (with Wide Lens because of Stone Miss and HJK hax) and there is literally nothing I cant demolish save for Priority users, Defensive Giratina-A, and Multiscale Lugia. Totally underrated.
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You might want to consider Protect to give you the edge over stuff like Scarf Palkia and Kyogre who will outspeed you even at +1. Unless you have Protect, they can switch in as you SD and kill you with Spacial Rend or Surf or whatever. Also why the hell are you running Wide Lens ? It just raises Accuracy 10%, which is not worth the power loss. Without LO you lose the ability to get a 100% chance for a +2 Flare Blitz OHKO on Giratina-O with SR in sunlight and you can no longer OHKO Support Groudon with +2 Flare Blitz in sun. Is a 10% increase in accuracy worth it ? Definitely not IMO.
 
lapras6666 said:
The little problem with Blaziken is that he suffers from move syndrome. If you run the set that he's using, then Blaziken is gonna have a hard time setting up, since 1. due to ubers being such an offensive metagame and blaziken's kinda okish defensive typing and 2. they could switch into something (like a scarfed poke) which outspeeds it, even with a +1 boost. If u use Protect/SD/FB/HJK then there's no way which you can hit threats like Rayquaza or Lugia. Finally, if u use Protect/HJK/FB/SE then you lack the sheer power that SD gives to you (with SD, you can OHKO Kyogre but without you can only 2HKO it)

I'm not saying that Blaziken is bad, no way, i'm just pointing out his flaws.
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Every Pokemon has flaws, and I'm not denying Blaziken has them. He does have trouble setting up, but thats why I pair him with Wobbufet, the king of support. I dont run protect because I need the coverage granted by Stone Edge to beat guys like Rayquaza and Lugia. I'm not always the kind of person to use personal favorites over competitive value, but this is the exception; Blaziken's not perfect,but he is an Uber, and awesome, and I've been in love with Blaziken since he was my fvery first starter Pokemon in Ruby when I started playing Pokemon.

barry4ever said:
You might want to consider Protect to give you the edge over stuff like Scarf Palkia and Kyogre who will outspeed you even at +1. Unless you have Protect, they can switch in as you SD and kill you with Spacial Rend or Surf or whatever. Also why the hell are you running Wide Lens ? It just raises Accuracy 10%, which is not worth the power loss. Without LO you lose the ability to get a 100% chance for a +2 Flare Blitz OHKO on Giratina-O with SR in sunlight and you can no longer OHKO Support Groudon with +2 Flare Blitz in sun. Is a 10% increase in accuracy worth it ? Definitely not IMO.
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I'm considering it, but without Stone Edge I have a lot of trouble against guys like Lugia/Rayquaza, and if Kyogre comes in I have to rely exclusively on HJK to sweep. As for Wide Lens, the reasoning is twofold. One, I cannot stand Life Orb. Too often, I die almost as soon as I start attacking due to that God-awful recoil, which stacks with all other kinds of residual damage, including Flare Blitz recoil. Second, I'm working with two attacks that are infamous for their accuracy: Stone Miss becomes Stone OftenHit, and Hi Jump Kick no longer screws me over with the potential recoil. I like having insurance from hax on my attacks. What I am considerig is adding Spikes Support to my team to make up for that loss in power.

Who's a good spiker in Ubers for a sun team?
 
There arent many spikers overall....however, Forretress and Skarmory are pretty much garunteed too get at least 1 layer down thanks to sturdy, with the former being able to spin hazards away.
Ferrothorn is a pain in the ass for kyogre (who is obviously gonna be a pain for a sun team) However sun will make random hidden power fires stronger.
Finally Deoxys works well, good speed and has an offensive presence, whilst often being able to lay down 2 sets if used as a lead in conjunction with a focus sash.

The only spikers I ever see are the aformentioned pokemon.
If you wanted too try something loltastic you could try maractus, it gets chloropyhll.. :p
 
Do note that Forretress also has access to Rapid Spin, which can be important on a sun team that tends to run Ho-Oh and Reshiram. Just something to consider.
 
Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Qwilfish, Foretress and Deoxys are the only spiker viable in Uber. Since I retired my team and dont intend to RMT it, here is the Deoxys I used for great record when the metagame was centralized on rain balanced team. He can still be used though, I hope it'll help some guys :

ideoxyss.gif

Deoxys-S @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 16 SAtk / 92 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock

Shadow Sneak Giratina-O Adamant full atk : 45.4% - 53.9%
Draco Meteor Giratina-O neutral full SpA : 84.2% - 99.7%
Fire Blast Dialga Support Modest 140 SpA : 48.4% - 57.2%
Draco Meteor Dialga Support Modest 140 SpA : 84.2% - 99.7%
Earthquake Groudon Support Impish 4 Atk : 42.8% - 50.7%
Draco Meteor Palkia Support Timid full SpA : 82.9% - 97.7%

I built this Deo since the rain team hate the entry hazards, so I combined it with some hard hitter. Also, this limite Arceus a lot thanks to his plate and Blaziken since they're trully a pain in the ass for us, offensive player.
He can take hit when needed and setup Spikes + SR almost all of the time. Most of team rely on Giratina-O Shadow Sneak, but its a troll 3hko with Leftovers; same goes for Draco Meteor who do 99% at max dmg. HP Fire for Forre, Ice Beam for Rayquaza since he can KO this Deo with DM, finally Shadow Ball for the other Deo-S.
As you can see there, unless the opponent have Darkrai, he'll play with SR + Spikes on his field, and if he doesnt use a powerful move like DM, he'll have 2 spikes. If he use it, its a free setup, and if not, then you'll just laugh when he'll switch and take +25%.
 
The uber metagame is fun and the most balanced one. I don't find myself having fun in OU, like in Ubers. Also, as far as I can tell, you can run almost any type of team and make it high in Ubers. Full stall to Hyperoffensive are all super viable as they both run counters to checking everything in between. I like my offensive team as manaphy in the rain stops stall in its tracks, while anything threatening him can be dealt with Scarfchomp. The only downside to ubers is that Arceus is so powerful that even if you have a landslide victory, if you lose your checks, you lose.

Spikes are indeed probably the most important hazard in general to have down, but I still think they need to be backed with spikes to still hinder ho-oh and other floaters from switching in freely. Multiscale lugia would rape almost any team without SR down, and sometimes it still does then. Deoxys-S has been my personal favorite in putting down spikes, but ferrothorn and forretress are the top 2 in my books for putting down spikes. Skarmory is still good but i don't see it as much as the other two.

Stall is the strongest style i have seen in ubers, but i see balance teams the most. Offensive teams usually consist of dragons who get lol'ed over by scarfpalkia and chomp.
 
locoghoul said:
Who wants to use Zekrom when Ferrothorn laughs at it
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That's like saying "my Ferrothorn is never defeated in any match ever, and neither is anyone else's, so a great poke that wrecks absolute havoc over most teams with a Choice Banded Outrage/ Bolt Strike of 150 Base Attack is awful because it has a counter."

Why use Kyogre when Gastrodon laughs at it? -.-
 
waterwarrior said:
That's like saying "my Ferrothorn is never defeated in any match ever, and neither is anyone else's, so a great poke that wrecks absolute havoc over most teams with a Choice Banded Outrage/ Bolt Strike of 150 Base Attack is awful because it has a counter."

Why use Kyogre when Gastrodon laughs at it? -.-
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Also just because Zekrom is checked by Ferrothorn does not mean it isnt good. First off, Zekrom can beat Ferrothorn even without SubClaws, by using LO and Focus Blast which does around 60% damage. Secondly, Ferrothorn checks a LOT of other Ubers as well, like Chansey, is that reason enough not to use it ?

Furthermore, Zekrom can be really useful in certain cases. Unlike Palkia, it has a stronger and more reliable STAB in Bolt Strike and hits on the weaker Defenses of most Ubers. Also it can scout pretty well which Palkia and co. cannot do. Zekrom also is not setup material for pretty much any CM Arceus with 252 HP/252 SpD unless they carry Will-O-Wisp (rare).
 
locoghoul said:
dunno about OU, I know it's not the greatest meta either but this ubers meta is worse than the old Gen IV kyogre/scizor/jirachi core. Ferrothorn is even better against Lati@s and double switching is just gonna wear down your Kyogre check. Who wants to use Zekrom when Ferrothorn laughs at it (ok, maybe not to the hone claws set but if you see lefties then you know sub is coming)?
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Sorry guy, but it looks like you don't know the uber metagame all that well. Couple Zekrom with someone who can take out his "check, ferrothorn" and watch zekrom destroy teams. Scarf is all he needs, but he can work without it.
 
I think it was shrang who used Celebi NP in Uber, right ? What do you think about him ? He's pretty fast and bulky, but his weakness are common and he doesnt hurt without some plot in the bag.
 
Go10 said:
I think it was shrang who used Celebi NP in Uber, right ? What do you think about him ? He's pretty fast and bulky, but his weakness are common and he doesnt hurt without some plot in the bag.
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He was alright, I guess. NP Celebi is something to consider using if your Arceus pre-occupied being something else and you don't want to run Grass Arceus. Just make sure you run Grass Knot for you STAB, because Giga Drain is weak as hell.
 
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