Meditite, Misdreavus, Carvanha and Gligar were all recently banned, so the entire metagame has undergone extreme changes. This is where you'll discuss those changes as well as anything else having to do with how the metagame stands currently. For example, with Scraggy escaping the ban bullet last round, what effect will it have? Also, all of the recently banned Mons were so dominant that they made a large amount of their counterparts simply dead weight. With them gone, what other Pokemon will emerge as top tier threats? Discuss those topics and anything else you can think of!
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General Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter fatty
- Start date
Scraggy may become a top threat. With Gligar gone, it no longer has to run Ice Punch, and can now run two Fighting-type attacks (Hi Jump Kick and Drain Punch) along with Dragon Dance and Crunch to be a real force to be reckoned with. + 1 Hi Jump Kick along with some hazards can easily dispatch its main counter Mienfoo and Timburr.
Sorry this is short, I'm on my phone
Sorry this is short, I'm on my phone
Flying types are amazing in this metagame. With all the Scraggy/Mienfoo/Croagunk/Timburr running around they can spam Acrobatics/Brave Bird without a second thought. I've been using a combination of Drifloon/Doduo very effectively, Acrofloon is absolutely amazing, it can destroy just about any semi-weakened team.
Also: Any news on when the next round will start, with the official thread?
Also: Any news on when the next round will start, with the official thread?
9.9
I am loving this metagame, lots of Fighting- and Flying-types but that's way better than Misdreavus/Carvanha/Gligar/Meditite. I'm finding Doduo to be an insanely good Choice Scarf user at the moment, with incredible Speed and Attack.
Mienfoo+Gastly is an awesome combination, especially because Mienfoo can U-turn out on Wynaut and go right to Gastly to avoid Counter. Wynaut really doesn't like taking U-turn then an STAB Shadow Ball.
Mienfoo+Gastly is an awesome combination, especially because Mienfoo can U-turn out on Wynaut and go right to Gastly to avoid Counter. Wynaut really doesn't like taking U-turn then an STAB Shadow Ball.
i'd just like to point out that scraggy and clamperl are both absurdly broken, 'imo'. with glig gone, scraggy is free to run any coverage move of it's choice to take on it's minimal amount of checks, be it head smash, zen headbutt, or even hjk. mienfoo can't check it anymore unless it's extra bulky or scarfed. timburr had a hard time checking it last meta with the lack of reliable recovery, and it's even harder now. the only things that do check it reliably are random poisons (who can be dealt with via zen headbutt anyways) and shelmet, who's weak to sr and loses to head smash versions. other than that, scarf birds like vullaby or taillow are pretty much your only options and they can't switch in for shit.
as for clamperl, i don't think i need to say much about it. yea, you can give the argument that 'it's hard to set up', but it really isn't lol. clamperl has all the natural bulk it needs, even without eviolite, to get up that single shell smash and tbh that's all it needs. once boosted, you better be packing an 18 speed scarfer (who all suck btw, other that gas who's extreme pursuit bait) or a shit ton of priority, or else it's game over.
on a sidenote, i don't know if it's a valid argument, but i've been seeing teams who support both scraggy and clamperl with dual screens, and with those up it's literally impossible to stop either of them.
as for clamperl, i don't think i need to say much about it. yea, you can give the argument that 'it's hard to set up', but it really isn't lol. clamperl has all the natural bulk it needs, even without eviolite, to get up that single shell smash and tbh that's all it needs. once boosted, you better be packing an 18 speed scarfer (who all suck btw, other that gas who's extreme pursuit bait) or a shit ton of priority, or else it's game over.
on a sidenote, i don't know if it's a valid argument, but i've been seeing teams who support both scraggy and clamperl with dual screens, and with those up it's literally impossible to stop either of them.
yeah who knew if you banned top Scraggy checks and left Scraggy it would become broken?!
Doduo and Taillow are both pretty good, and if you're really having Clamperl issues try Scarf Staryu! It actually works, believe it or not.
The thing keeping Scraggy from being broken in my mind is that it can't take on all of these checks at once. Hi Jump Kick versions lose to Shelmet, Grimer, and Koffing, as well as bulky Mienfoo (which honestly doesn't take THAT many evs to survive the majority of the time) and Croagunk. Head Smash dies quickly and loses to Mienfoo and Croagunk. Zen Headbutt loses to Mienfoo and Shelmet. Taunt beats Shelmet but loses to Mienfoo, Croagunk, and Koffing. It's really, really good but it's something that can actually be handled, unlike the ones we just banned.
Clamperl is more annoying but everyone uses fast scarfers as backup to Scraggy anyway so the meta is actually equipped to at least revenge it.
I haven't played this new metagame that much, but how much does a +2 HP Grass do to Staryu? i'm guessing its close to a OHKO or a clean OHKO.
That's why I said Dual Screen Staryu makes small children cry. Fucking 6-0ed me...ban Acupressure!
Seriously, though, in this current metagame, Scarf Taillow is probably the most important Pokemon you can have.
+2 DST Clamperl HP Grass vs Calm - 196 HP / 236 SpD Eviolite Staryu (the bulkiest set possible):
64 Atk vs 24 Def & 22 HP (70 Base Power): 26 - 32 (118.18% - 145.45%)
yeah...doesn't beat it in the slighest.
edit: oh sorry, didn't know u meant scarf. shoulda clarified that in your first post.
64 Atk vs 24 Def & 22 HP (70 Base Power): 26 - 32 (118.18% - 145.45%)
yeah...doesn't beat it in the slighest.
edit: oh sorry, didn't know u meant scarf. shoulda clarified that in your first post.
first of all, grimer is shit. it can't take repeated hits and it relys on a neutral poison jab to hurt scraggy. secondly, mienfoo easily loses to zen headbutt scraggy, all you have to do is hit mien with one zen headbutt on the switch and the next time you come in it's sweep time. that leaves shelmet as the only reliable check to zen versions, and it's pretty useless outside of that niche. furthermore, do you expect me to run mienfoo + shelmet on every single team just so that i can switch into scraggy safely? no, i'd rather not, because that's two wasted team slots that i need to beat other threats. on top of that, you suggest that i also need to run an 18 speed scarfer as back up and a clamperl check. keep in mind that none of those 3 mons can switch into clamperl, so i might need to look into adding something that can. i may be exaggerating a bit, but that's essentially 4 team slots already used up on trying to check only 2 mons. something has to be wrong.
surely if you have to pack so many checks so you can beat scraggy w/ every possible coverage move there is something wrong..
Okay I fixed that, sorry about that.
So are there any other Flying-types that people have seen work? I saw Wingull once it did a lot of damage with Hurricane, actually. It surprised me.
Edit: You also don't pack all those at once, but Scraggy can't just sit safely in a metagame with Mienfoo and Flying-types being so good. Admittedly that's because of Scraggy but these aren't dead weight. Mienfoo+a Flying-type is usually enough. Did you realize I mentioned Mienfoo for every coverage move?
So are there any other Flying-types that people have seen work? I saw Wingull once it did a lot of damage with Hurricane, actually. It surprised me.
Edit: You also don't pack all those at once, but Scraggy can't just sit safely in a metagame with Mienfoo and Flying-types being so good. Admittedly that's because of Scraggy but these aren't dead weight. Mienfoo+a Flying-type is usually enough. Did you realize I mentioned Mienfoo for every coverage move?
Which is why you either run a Scarf Pokemon with 18 speed+ or Croagunk/other priority Pokemon. Or you just don't use any Pokemon that are threatened by Clamperl but good luck with that. Scarf Pokemon are really good right now, and while last round you could really get away without using them if you didn't want to, it's pretty much a necessity on any serious team right now. If someone told me 2 years ago that in gen 5 the most common Taillow set would be Choice Scarf, I would have laughed at them though, I'll admit. Scarfing 19 speeders just seems so silly......
Anyways, I don't know how it can be claimed that Scraggy is easier to handle compared to the suspects last round, all of which had counters and checks as well! If anything I think Scraggy is worse because you HAVE to run two checks due to how versatile it is, otherwise you will lose to some random variant of it. At least Misdreavus was (almost) always buttfucked by Stunky........ EDIT: ninja'd by Fiction.
I've been using gimmicks for now so I don't have anything else to really say for now. I don't even normally post in these kind of topics so hey~
Anyways, I don't know how it can be claimed that Scraggy is easier to handle compared to the suspects last round, all of which had counters and checks as well! If anything I think Scraggy is worse because you HAVE to run two checks due to how versatile it is, otherwise you will lose to some random variant of it. At least Misdreavus was (almost) always buttfucked by Stunky........ EDIT: ninja'd by Fiction.
I've been using gimmicks for now so I don't have anything else to really say for now. I don't even normally post in these kind of topics so hey~
two pokemon being "usually" enough to take down one pokemon? you don't see a problem, at all?