Gen 3 Generation 3 Ubers Viability Ranking Thread

[RotomPoison]

Approved by Jellicent. Format shamelessly stolen from the OU thread.

~ADV Ubers Viability Ranking~

Welcome to the ADV Viability Rankings topic. In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in ADV and what tier they should fall under.

The general idea of the topic is to rank each ADV pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats.

Without further ado, the list (will be edited as the discussion goes by):

S-rank
(These Pokemon define the metagame the most. They have many equally good movesets and/or are unique in their role.)

-

Kyogre
-

Latias
-

Latios
-

Deoxys-Attack
- Groudon

A-Rank
(These Pokemon are really good and almost always do their job. They have some flaws that prevent them to be as good as the S-Rank Pokemon.)

- Blissey
- Deoxys-D
- Deoxys-S
- Lugia
- Rayquaza
- Exeggutor
- Mewtwo

B-Rank(These Pokemon fullfill a given offensive/defensive/support niche. They have some flaws that prevent them to be as consistant as the higher ranked Pokemon but are nonetheless common and should be taken into account when building a team.)

- Forretress
- Ho-Oh
- Jirachi
- Shiftry
- Mew

C-Rank(These Pokemon are way less common than the S/A/B one and usually need way more support to work. They are often inferior to the higher-ranked one but have one or two advantages that give them a niche with proper team-support.)

- Lanturn
- Flygon

D-Rank(These Pokemon have a small niche, but have very noticable flaws that make them more trouble then they're worth the majority of the time, or are entirely outclassed by a Pokemin in the higher ranks.)

- Deoxys
- Muk
- Banette

E-Rank(These Pokemon are complete garbage)

- Wynaut
Rules :

• Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will not be tolerated
• No flaming
• Stay objective. The fact that you love X or Y Pokemon doesn't mean it's objectivly a beast

 

[MoxieInfinite]

Deoxys-A for S: No explanation needed really, it just completely destroys everything if you can predict right. If your team is weakened late game, you can probably kiss your team goodbye.

Kyogre for S: Rain is extremely powerful, and I find sun to be rather lackluster in ADV. Kyogre itself is extremely powerful too, either with its SubCM, CM 3atks, RestTalk, RestTalk without CM, whatever set it runs. You NEED at least one answer to this, and that counter depends a lot on what set it is. Very, very good mon.

Latias/Latios for A/S: Their best sets are virtually the same, and the only difference is that Latios can go mixed/physical, while Latias can run support better. Probably your best answer to SubCM Kyogre without Ice Beam, as it can go toe-to-toe with it and beat it due to Kyogre not having recovery, or phaze it if you run Roar. Struggles to sweep due to Deo-A being a fantastic check, but if the alien is gone, you can really do some damage. Metagross, though not super-common, is a hardcounter.

I'll add more later.

 

[RotomPoison]

Added Deoxys-A and Kyogre to S. Latias and Latios to A, I understand the possibility of them being S but let's just see what other people think

 

[M Dragon]

Lati@s should be rank S, as well as Groudon and probably Rayquaza.
Lati@s have 0 counters, and unline in later gens you cannot trap them (pursuit does nothing). They are great special walls, great attackers, and great supporters.
Groudon is one of the best pokemon in the game, it has a great attack stat and a powerful EQ, and it's very bulky. SD (SD + Lefties or SubSalac) and CB sets can easily destroy teams.


Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Deoxys formes, Blissey, Shedinja, Tyranitar, Jirachi and Metagross could be tier A probably.
Then weather abusers like Ludicolo, Kabutops, Exeggutor, Shiftry

 

[McMeghan]

Backing up M Dragon on Lati@s in S-Rank. Anyone who played a bit of ADV ubers somewhat seriously should reckon the Eons are the biggest threats of the metagame and define it the most. Unlike what MoxieInfinite said, Metagross is nowhere near as close as a "hard-counter" to them.

For reference:
252 SpAtk Latios Thunder vs 252 HP / 0 SpDef Metagross=> 59% - 69% (215 - 253).
252 SpAtk Latios Thunderbolt vs 0 PS / 252 SpDef Metagross=> 43% - 51% (131 - 155).

I won't even mention HP Fire under Sun which is a straight OHKO 81% of the time. Pursuit does absolutly nothing and Metagross overall utility is to Pursuit Deo-A and Explode on something.

Lati@s speed tier is so good that you basically can't revenge kill them without Deoxys-A. They are immune to spikes and have enough tools in their movepool to beat all their checks with the appropriate set variation. On top of that, they can even run unorthodox sets with great success (like Latios DD) and they work in basically every team environnement and will always pull their weight in any games. If you don't run one of them in your team, you're basically doing something wrong.

I'd definitly put Deoxys-A in the S-tier as well. Godly speed-tier, paired with incredible raw power and enormous movepool mean it always work and a lot of games are dictated by who abuse Deo-A the best. It's also somewhat of a check to almost everything in the tier with its speed and the fact that near everyone is OHKO'd by one of its coverage move.

If it was just me, I'd only put Deo-A, Lati@s and Groudon/Kyogre in the S-Rank, the two latter one for their overall utility paired with the fact that they bring weathers to the battle and for their teammates.

 

[Fireburn]

I agree with everything McMeghan and MDragon said.

I'd also like to back up Shedinja for B-Rank, it hardwalls a lot of threatening stuff like Kyogre, Lati@s, and Mewtwo sans Fire-type moves. Sheddy only really has to worry about Spikes and Tyranitar, the latter of which can be scouted by using Baton Pass and isn't too common anyway. Spikes can be easily circumvented most of the time by using Forry (or even Mag to trap and kill Skarm/Forry) since there are basically no viable Ghosts in ADV Ubers except for Sheddy itself and the very rare Gengar. I don't think it deserves A just because it still needs a fair amount of support, moreso than other things that would go in A-Rank, but the ability to completely own Lati@s and Kyogre is valuable indeed.

Magneton should also be B-Rank - It kills the most common Spikes users and the only viable Spinner which makes it great on teams that like having Skarm/Forry dead. Also it resists BoltBeam and is immune to Toxic, making it a good Lugia check. Can also RK CB Metagross locked into Mash/Pursuit or sponge banded Shadow Balls.

Also if I may ask, what does Tyranitar do in this metagame? I've never found a reason to use it with Groudon/Kyogre dominating and not having the Sand SpDef boost for help against Lati@s.

 

[MoxieInfinite]

I was talking about the mono-attacking set though

Soul Dew Latios Dragon Claw vs. Metagross (OU's CB set): 117-138 (32.1 - 37.9%) -- 94.7% chance to 3HKO, keep passing wishes to hold it alive, and you should be good. mash ohkoes back too if band. hardcounter was maybe an overstatement, sorry bout that, but its at least a pretty good check

flygon to d, fuck groudon

also, if wobb is allowed, where would you put that? i have literally no experience playing with or against it

god how i wish metagross was pure steel sometimes.....

 

[Arhops]

Who needs Flygon when:

Ludicolo SolarBeam vs. Groudon: 367-432 (90.8 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
(y u no show evs adv calc :((()

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Metagross for (top) B-rank. CB sets OHKO/2HKOs Deoxys-A, Lati@s, Deoxys-S, Mewtwo, Rayquaza and just about everything from OU. It also explodes on shit. On the defensive aspect it can normally take one or two attacks before dying. AgiliGross is cool aswell since it still 2HKOs a big part of the treaths in the tier with M mash/EQ. Also (again) Explosion. Sadly it needs HP fire to hit forretress and Skarmory

Groudon for S-rank. Fucks up Kyogres rain, often forcing the switch. It has massive physical defense and alot of power in that EQ/RS. Band/SubSalac/SD sets are scary and Sun is nice for pokemons like Shiftry, Exeggutor, Every fire type ever (Ho-Oh really likes it) and Pokemon that often rely on Fire coverage like Mew and Mewtwo. It can also run a good defensive set with Roar and RestTalk. Bulk up is also fun. Just like Kyogre it truly define the metagame with its unique ability and the massive amount of switches it can force.

Kabutops, Kingdra (mabye D), Victreebel and Shiftry for C-rank because they are more or less useless outside of weather, but can really work in it.

Exeggutor is really dangerous in sun with Sleep powder and Subseed/Solarbeam, Ludicolo is in rain because of its versatility, from Full out offense to Subseed. Therefor I think they might be worth B ranking

Forretress and Skarmory should be A-rank becaue they cant die by Physical attacks without a shitton of prior damage or alot of setup and they can set up spikes and Phaze (skarmory) or Explode/spin (Forretress)

I would also add Charizard to D for the lols (It is ofc not good)

Mabye I'll add other stuff

 

[RotomPoison]

So it looks like:

- Latios to S
- Latias to S
- Groudon to S

More discussion:

Ludicolo, Kabutops, Kingdra (mabye D), Victreebel, Exeggutor and Shiftry for C-rank (Ludicolo and Exeggutor might be B) because they are more or less useless outside of weather, but can really work in it. Exeggutor is really dangerous in sun, Ludicolo is in rain, Therefor I think they might be worth B ranking

- Magneton to B
- Shedinja to B
- Skarmory/Forretress to A

 

[Yellow Cheese]

I've added my thoughts somewhat on Skarmory/Forretress and the weather pokes, will go deeper indept tomorrow.

Magneton is good, but that speed combined with a lackluster sp.def makes its resistances not that impressive. being weak to Fire and not resisting water is also bad in a often weather controlled game. I think that it is a good C more than a B

Shedinja walls quite a few pokemon, including most of the S rank. Being able to setup on Lati@s is not something to ignore. B is a fine ranking for it.

Also, will we be ranking the pokemon alphabeticly or after viability in their rank?

 

[RotomPoison]

Once everything is somewhere they'll be organized alphabetically (I don't think there are enough viable mons for - or + in each rank)

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Once everything is somewhere they'll be organized alphabetically (I don't think there are enough viable mons for - or + in each rank)

I did not mean that. In the ADV OU thread there is a system I really like. The best pokemon in A rank is Snorlax, so he is mentioned first, then second is Metagross, third is Salamence and then the list goes on until we hit Starmie, the worst A-rank poke (I personally think Aerodactyl is worse, but whatever).

 

[MoxieInfinite]

I prefer that too

 

[RotomPoison]

Fair enough, still going to wait until all/most of the mons are placed somewhere to do that

 

[Yellow Cheese]

The S rank should probably be ranked like this:
Kyogre
Latias
Latios
Deoxys-A
Groudon

As far as my knowledge goes this is how good they are in the metagame.

Kyogre is the definition of an Uber, having an extremely powerful Water STAB (in rain), great coverage, good special defense and Brings massive amounts of support with tis ability alone, allowing pokemon like Ludicolo/Kaputops to sweep (or Stall in Ludicolos case) and lets powerful electrics like Zapdos run Thunder over Thunderbolt. Therefor it is worth the top S rank.

Latias has a retarded amount of SAtk and SDef after tha soul dew boost, and can continue to boost that with calm mind. With great coverage and a good speed tier, it is truly a power poke that forces alot of switches. These things make it second to Kyogre the strongest pokemon in the tier.

Latios does what Latias does, but with lesser bluk, but higher offense. Therefor it looses easier to Deoxys-A and other fast pokemon, but still extremely powerful. Therefor third

Deoxys-A has godlike offensive power, outspeeds just about everything, and has yet again fantastic coverage and high power options. The little bluk is negated by its massive offenisve presence alone. Fourth is the lowest you can give this bastard.

Groudon works like the opposite kyogre. Being the arguably best physical attacker in the tier game, having a fantastic STAB with ground, good coverage and is very verstile. It can run Band, RestTalk, Bulk up, Swords Dance with T-wave, SubSalac, SubSD and even defensive phazing sets. it also allows Fire and grass type pokemon like Ho-Oh, Shifty and even Charizard to shine. sadly he lacks some SDef to check the pokes above, But still worth S-rank.
.

 

[RotomPoison]

For the time being:

- Deoxys to D
- Blissey to A
- Deoxys-D to A
- Deoxys-S to B
- Exeggutor to B
- Flygon to C
- Forretress to B
- Ho-Oh to B
- Jirachi to B
- Lanturn to C
- Lugia to B
- Mew to B
- Mewtwo to A
- Muk to D
- Rayquaza to A
- Shiftry to C

Just to get the initial list done. S reordered to what Yellow Cheese said for now

 

[PISTOLERO]

I think Rayquaza to A is sensible, it can run HP Bug to slaughter Lati@s, Air Lock is uninspiring but useful for weather sweepers, Extremespeed is great, you can smoke Steel-Types (of which there is a distinct lack of) with Overheat, or Earthquake them. It also learns Dragon Dance, which, thanks to the lack of existence of Choice Scarf, is much more dangerous - it can run mixed Dragon Dance, Special Dragon Dance - and after DD it can outspeed everything, especially Lati@s, and kill them all off. The amount of RSE games i have played is in the single digits but I noticed that Ray is really great :)

 

[RotomPoison]

I meant to add Flygon to C.

 

[M Dragon]

Jirachi should be A

 

[Fireburn]

Lugia should be in A imo. Its really hard to KO, is probably the best Spikes abuser with Whirlwind and its huge defenses, checks things like Groudon and Rayquaza that don't really have a lot of checks, can potentially sweep with Calm Mind, and can even run a sweet Choice Band set - Lugia's physical coverage is actually really good between Aeroblast, Earthquake, and Shadow Ball and very few things avoid getting 2HKOed by STAB Aeroblast.

And yeah Flygon should be in C lol, all it does is check Groudon which its only ok at doing.

 

[RotomPoison]

Lugia has been added to A. I honestly don't think Jirachi is that amazing, high B rank imo.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

After a few battles testing (with my friends) I've come to the conclusion that Forretress should be moved to A-rank. It has fantastic utility with Explosion + Spikes + Rapid spin. It has a good typing and is without question the best utility pokemon in the tier bar Groudon/Kyogre.

Skarmory should be B ranked because of its ability to Set up spikes and Phaze, along with its fenominal bulk.

When it comes to ChloroSwim pokes I think they should be listed like this: (most after knowledge and experience but some after predictions)
Weather abusers not listed are either low D or E (These include Relicanth, Tropius, Sunflora, Seaking, Luvdisc and Mantine)

Chlorophyll:
Exeggutor: Mid B
Shiftry: High C/Low B
Vileplume: High C
Victreebel: Mid/Low C
Jumpluff: Mid/low C
Tangela: Low C
Bellossom: High D


Swift Swim
Ludicolo: Mid B
Kaputops: Mid C
Gorebyss: Mid C
Kingdra: Low/Mid C
Omastar: Low C
Qwilfish: Low C/High D
Huntail: High D

 

[Kel9901]

um... put the list in alphabetical order?

 

[RotomPoison]

um... put the list in alphabetical order?

No, in the end it will be organized by viability within the ranks.

If you want niche mons added please don't submit Tangela/Huntail/Vileplume outside E or some good arguement for D or whatever lol