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Genesect

Got around to making a team with Rock Polish Genesect and it's exceeded all expectations. Genesect actually does much better just bluffing a choice scarf with expert belt then I thought it would. It's also really easy to open teams up for him to sweep, particularly when they assume you're scarfed and don't account for the possible speed boost when they're planning ahead.

It's mostly about just wearing down it's checks, as most things don't really stand in it's way once they're under 50%, and getting rid of Heatran. Heatran does hard counter it, but the way my team is structured he's a liability against 4/6 members of my team so I don't have a difficult time getting rid of him. Entry hazards really help with that, and that's coming from just using stealth rock. I can't imagine how much better it would be with spikes, the problem is how hard spikes are to get set up.

I also saw a CB Genesect on ladder, and I'm kind of interested in trying it out. My only concern with it is whether or not it does anything better than Scizor other than being faster / having a chance of getting to 2x attack via download. It's movepool isn't that good and it has less attack / no priority or pursuit as compared to Scizor. Still, being able to run a special attack and the element of surprise would come in handy. I wish I'd seen a few more because I'd really like to get a better feel for it before I use it, but it sounds really interesting to me, at least on paper.
 
CB Genesect is really good since unlike Scizor it can make use of Iron Head and get a few flinches, as well as the 2x attack like you mentioned (its actually 2.25x attack). It also gets Explosion, and coupled with the extra attack power it yields decent results with it. Uturn becomes massively overpowered and even does like 20% to Heatran which is cool. In the last slot I'm currently using Thunderbolt, although Flamethrower is probably a better option, and with a Download boost it still hits for pretty good damage. It gets Quick Attack as well but on the team I use I have priority already so I felt it wasn't needed, but its a decent option nonetheless.

Also, Genesect still nets you 372 Attack unboosted which is not too far off from Scizor's 394.
 
I'd argue that it's not 'that' good. I mean, it's a genesect, and it's got boosted attack, so it's hard to find it terrible, but other than the surprise value, i find it to be rather ineffective. It's just got such a lame physical movepool. I guess doing more w/uturn to heatran is cool, but then they know and with genesect knowing is half the battle, literally.
 
I disagree, the boosted Uturn is the surprise in itself, and sometimes all it takes is hitting something extremely hard/ohkoing something to turn the tide of the match. Heatran isn't used on every team either, and can easily be dealt with thanks to its weaknesses to common types. Even when Heatran is used, there's a good chance it is also using Balloon and the last thing it wants is to switch into Genesect to take a Uturn only to have it popped. Pair it with a pokemon that can easily set up on Heatran such as CM Keldeo and have it go to town.

Everything not named Heatran gets absolutely pounded by a 2.25x boosted Uturn, its ridiculous how strong it is. Anything that powerful should not be overlooked.
 
Yeah;to be fair, i use heatran AND skarmory, and lead with sableye a lot(Genesect users love to lead with it); but i just find it to be really underwhelming.
 
Well no wonder, you use like 3 counters to it lol. Excadrill is underwhelming if you use Tech Breloom, Choice Scarf Politoed and Quagsire too.
 
Would Genesect be considered potentially overcentralizing, given that you essentially need a Heatran or even a scarf Genesect of your own to hard counter it?
 
I don't think you need to hard counter Genesect. As long as you have hazards (even just Stealth Rock) and something to sponge Uturns it'll just wear itself down over time. Most of the time people play it safe with Genesect since often its their only revenge killer, so they want to preserve him as long as possible. You can use this to your advantage by playing around it with relative ease most of the time.
 
I was really fucking bored, so I decided to go through the entire list of semi-usable pokemon that hard counter Genesect standing alone (for example no Terrakion in the sand), taking all of its moves with ease. They have to be able to take a u-turn without easily + not be weak to rocks, take less than 50% from normal +1 moves and finally be able to kill it in return. Also none of these are killed by Dugtrio, its a bit of a gimmicky list, but what the hey, I took an hour finding it.
-Hitmontop (debatable +1 attacks hurt)
-Regirock
-Registeel (+1 flamthrower does hurt, but its not a 2HKO)
-Weezing
-mismagius
-dusknoir
-cofagrigus

Yep, Im probably missing a few, but its not an amazing list. If you can even think of any post them.

This makes me look at Registeel and Regirock in a completely different light.
 
I would like to say what I think of the Expert Belt set. Seriously, most people use Choice Scarf, and I find other sets to be rather unexplored. The Expert Belt set, for example, the currently that I am using, almost always net me one extra kill. It is amazing, and deserves more usage. The Rock Polish set is another set that is an amazing late-game cleaner, but my favorite set by far is Expert Belt. There is no better lure than it, as no one expect me to be using Expert Belt when they don't see Life Orb recoil.
 
ayo wynaut you forgot our best counter ever, magcargo in sand. it has recover so it can't be worn down even despite its SR weakness, and its flame body totally fucks up uturn spam. MAGCARGO FOR OU

more seriously speaking, rotom-H probably also fits on the list, as does dusclops, and also chansey (i'm like the first guy who'll say chansey doesn't counter genesect in the long run, but it CAN take any of the moves, and dugtrio does not beat it easily)

jellicent and tentacruel can check non-thunder sect reasonably well and jelli also threatens the burn. idk precisely how duggy-weak cruel is, though. ferro in rain can take pretty much anything as well; the fthrow might leave a bit of a mark but nothing fatal
 
On RPsect, an interesting moveset I've been trying is this:
Genesect @ Expert Belt / Life Orb

Trait: Download
EVs: / 252 SAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Bug Buzz
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Most prominently, this set has no trouble getting past heatran, as even with 252 Hp / 252 SpD heatran takes > 102% from an ebelt hp ground. Furthermore, this gives genesect the infamous ice + ground attacking combo, which hits neutral coverage on just about everything while getting many key pokemon super-effectively, such as dragons. Bug buzz rounds off the set, as it is tremendously powerful at +1 with LO and outright OHKOs a ton of stuff. Kind of like, ice beam and hp ground are for coverage, and bug buzz for sheer power. The item is debatable, LO really lets sect sweep best, while ebelt can be used for more of a cleaner role (and to bluff choice I guess, although not with this moveset). The main problem I've seen is that hp ground is kinda weak when it's not super-effective, meaning stuff like other genesect can take a hit (although +1 LO hp ground does >60%, so with some prior damage not much will stop this).
Any thoughts?
 
Kidogo said:
On RPsect, an interesting moveset I've been trying is this:
Genesect @ Expert Belt / Life Orb

Trait: Download
EVs: / 252 SAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Bug Buzz
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Most prominently, this set has no trouble getting past heatran, as even with 252 Hp / 252 SpD heatran takes > 102% from an ebelt hp ground. Furthermore, this gives genesect the infamous ice + ground attacking combo, which hits neutral coverage on just about everything while getting many key pokemon super-effectively, such as dragons. Bug buzz rounds off the set, as it is tremendously powerful at +1 with LO and outright OHKOs a ton of stuff. Kind of like, ice beam and hp ground are for coverage, and bug buzz for sheer power. The item is debatable, LO really lets sect sweep best, while ebelt can be used for more of a cleaner role (and to bluff choice I guess, although not with this moveset). The main problem I've seen is that hp ground is kinda weak when it's not super-effective, meaning stuff like other genesect can take a hit (although +1 LO hp ground does >60%, so with some prior damage not much will stop this).
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...


HP Ground is good for luring Heatran but you lose so much coverage and really need to run LO for the extra power, the trade off just doesn't seem as worth it given how easy Heatran is to get rid of since it lacks recovery and gets raped by Dugtrio unless it has shed shell, in which case it's even easier to wear down. I'd rather use a coverage move unless I was running that on like a Sun team and wanted to lure and kill Heatran so my sun sweeper, like Venasaur, could go to town on their team.
 
Well, the nice thing about ice beam + hp ground is that it gives you almost perfect neutral coverage while eliminating one of genesect's main counters as a problem. And yes, this was originally run on a no-duggy sun team with special venusaur, but I've also used it on a few other teams and it's done pretty well. The main thing is, in order for this sect to sweep, you need to damage everything just a little bit, since it's only getting neutral hits on most stuff. Once that happens though, it can sweep very effectively. So perhaps it does require more support than other versions of RPsect, but in exchange it doesn't have any hard counters that need to be eliminated completely before it can hope to sweep.
 
I love Genesect and have used every single "actual" set (Scarf, Band, Specs, Sash, and the Polish's)
However the sets you have posted dont seem at all efficiant and arnt generally used for that reason!

The most common Genesect set is Choice Scarf (with U-Turn > Bug Buzz, not how you put it) Naive nature, max speed evs, 200 SpAttack and 56 Atk.

However from my experience, all of the sets are extremely good, in there perfect cituation. Personally I have had most success with the focus sash set when supported correctly.
 
EnterRAYZORS said:
I love Genesect and have used every single "actual" set (Scarf, Band, Specs, Sash, and the Polish's)
However the sets you have posted dont seem at all efficiant and arnt generally used for that reason!

The most common Genesect set is Choice Scarf (with U-Turn > Bug Buzz, not how you put it) Naive nature, max speed evs, 200 SpAttack and 56 Atk.

However from my experience, all of the sets are extremely good, in there perfect cituation. Personally I have had most success with the focus sash set when supported correctly.
Click to expand...

I personally run 252 atk ev's on my scarfsect. It's special attack is good without investment and it will mostly u-turn anyways.
It have that strong u-turn surprise from the band set, but with more speed (and obviously not as powerful).
 
I want to know if someone agrees with me that the Choice Scarf set is good, but is no better than the other sets, like Rock Polish or Expert Belt, and is actually pretty overrated. The Expert Belt set is just as good and to me is even better because most of my opponents think that can wall my attack and are destroyed by another. It always gets to me one extra kill per battle, and you don't necessarily lose momentum if you predict wrong, as long as Expert Belt hasn't been revealed. I've not yet tried to use the RP set but it seems to be a great late-game sweeper. The problem is that it seems to depend on getting a Special Attack boost to sweep late-game, and there are many things EVed to give Genesect an Attack boost. Also, this set seems to suffer from 4MSS, as you can't run all of Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Bug Buzz, Giga Drain and Hidden Power Ground at same time, unfortunately.

The Choice Scarf set is good but is not as good as it appears to be. On my opinion, for example, to sandstorm teams, Landorus is better as a revenge killer. It doesn't have the same coverage and typing as Genesect, but has a base speed 2 points higher and a powerful Earthquake capable of destroying even things neutral to it. Also, thanks to its base 99 speed, ScarfSect cannot revenge kill Scarf Landorus-I, ScarfMence, Scarf Jirachi, Scarf Thundurus-T, Modest Venusaur on sun and Adamant Stoutland on sandstorm. It cannot also revenge kill Volcarona, but that's not because of its speed, but because Volcarona shrugs off all its attacks unless Genesect for some reason has Hidden Power Rock, but even then, a +1 Volcarona will outspeed and kill Genesect anyway.

Scarf Sect is being "advertised" as the best Scarfer in the game, but I don't think so.
 
I think the best nature is actually Lonely/Naughty; this allows you to run Flamethrower and Ice Beam without forfeiting Special Attack. You want to use a +Atk nature though. Dem 837 Attack U-Turns.
 
Dark Fallen Angel said:
I want to know if someone agrees with me that the Choice Scarf set is good, but is no better than the other sets, like Rock Polish or Expert Belt, and is actually pretty overrated.
Click to expand...


It's not that the set is all that effective, it's how easy it is to fit onto your team in order to check a significant portion of the metagame, function as a late game sweeper, and play the role of scout in the early and mid game. It's so versatile in what it can do and it's really difficult to do anything about it because it packs a U-turn that is both fast and strong, unlike Scizor who lacks the speed and the multitude of scarfers with U-turn but don't get STAB or have an attack stat to back it up, and if you mispredict the U-turn whatever is in will probably die. It's ability to cover and threaten so many threats while having a typing that's really easy to work with is why it's the most popular set. I agree with you that it's not as great as it's made out to be, but that's kind of outweighed by how you can put it on almost any team and it will do fine with little to no support. Rock Polish and Ebelt are more dangerous in their ability to sweep and punch holes respectively, but they aren't as good throughout all phases of the match and they need a little bit more in the way of team support to hit their potential. Pretty much any Genesect is going to be dangerous but it has to fit your team, which is why Scarf is the most common and probably always will be.
 
I've been using the Rock Polish set with Giga Drain / Ice Beam / Flamethrower and it's by far my favorite. It just sweeps so many offensive teams that it's not even funny. I honestly didn't like Genesect because I thought its only good set was Choice Scarf, but now I see that he has so much stuff to make good use of. I also love the Expert Belt set, and as Dark Fallen Angel said, it almost always nets me one extra kill because people just don't see it coming. I honestly don't know how I could not like Genesect, it is now by far my favorite Pokémon in OU and I think it is a little broken because omg it's just so good lol. The Rock Polish set is still my favorite, though. Very common Rain teams (EX: Politoed / Tornadus-T / Starmie / Rotom-W / Jirachi / Scizor) just get 6x0'd by it as long as you setup with it, which is not that hard to do in front of Politoed (and you even get the SpA boost, yay).

And lately I've been using Scarf Jirachi instead of Scarf Genesect, and I feel it has some better points over it. The first one is Iron Head + Serene Grace, which is just a beast combination to have on a scarfed Pokémon. The second is access to Trick and Stealth Rock, both being excelent moves to help your team. The third is 100 base stats all-around, which makes Jirachi faster and bulkier. I know Genesect has stronger moves as a whole, but I just prefer Jirachi as a scarfer because it has a lot of advantages over it (ScarfGene is still good and it fits in many teams, I'm just saying that there are other scarfers to use in BW2 and they're good lol).
 
Something hilarious about Scarf Jirachi is that you can lead with it against opposing Genesect teams and let them have a Special Attack boost (Genesect is a VERY common lead). This will trick them into staying in so you can nail them with Fire Punch! Against other leads, just U-Turn out - it's not too rare of a move on Jirachi.
 
Arcticblast said:
Something hilarious about Scarf Jirachi is that you can lead with it against opposing Genesect teams and let them have a Special Attack boost (Genesect is a VERY common lead). This will trick them into staying in so you can nail them with Fire Punch! Against other leads, just U-Turn out - it's not too rare of a move on Jirachi.
Click to expand...

Actually you want to put the 4 remaining EVs into SPD. If Genesect gets a SPA boost, it's a clear indicator that Jirachi is not specially defensive, which means it's most likely carrying Scarf, especially if it's leading.
 
I think it would be worthwhile if we compare Genesect to another Download user, Porygon-Z, and see how much their differences affect Download: While Porygon-Z has an awesome 135 Special Attack stat, its mediocre 80 Attack means that pokémon with equal defenses can make Porygon-Z waste its Download boost on a stat it's never going to use. Meanwhile, Genesect's excellent twin-120 attacking stats mean that whichever boost it's going to get will be useful, either by making its great super-effective coverage really scary or by empowering its U-Turn

The combination of Download and its attacking stats mean that Genesect can actually play around with those pokémon with equal defenses, by tricking them to give it the right boost by using an unpopular set. Choice Band Genesect is a great example, as almost everyone wants Genesect to get an Attack boost as his most popular set is specially-based. Now think what could happen if Choice Band Genesect became popular with the current defensive stat spreads: An Adamant +1 Choice Band Genesect's U-Turn is 19,63% less powerful than a Choice Band Escavalier's Megahorn (While it is ~41% more powerful than Choice Band Scizor's U-Turn). While the difference is not exactly small, it clearly shows its power.

For example:

252 +1 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Chansey (+Def) : 50,28% - 59,23%
252 +1 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 252 HP/88 Def Ferrothorn: 55,68% - 65,91%
252 +1 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 248 HP/0 Def Rotom-W: 83,17% - 98,02%
252 +1 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 4 HP/0 Def Virizion: 107,72% - 127,16%
252 +1 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 0 HP/0 Def Suicune: 69,5% - 82,11%
252 +1 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 0 HP/0 Def Scrafty: 87,45% - 103,32%
252 +1 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 252 HP/0 Def Scrafty: 70,96% - 83,83%
252 +1 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 252 HP/252 Def Snorlax (+Def) : 48,09% - 56,68%
252 +1 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 248 HP/0 Def Heatran: 16,36% - 19,48% (Compared to Timid +1 Choice Scarf that deals 8,83% - 10,65%)
252 +1 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 252 HP/0 Def Jirachi: 66,09% - 77,97%
252 +1 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 252 HP/0 Def Ninetales: 48,29% - 56,86%
252 +1 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 0 HP/0 Def Tornadus-T: 53,85% - 63,21% (Only if Tornadus-T has a Timid nature. Naive Tornadus-T gives Genesect a Special Attack boost)
252 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 252 HP/28 Def Amoonguss: 53,01% - 62,73%
252 Atk Choice Band Genesect (+Atk) U-turn vs 252 HP/4 Def Reuniclus: 106,13% - 125,24%

If Choice Band Genesect gets an Attack boost, you need a bulky Bug-resisting pokémon or a double-resisting one or it will take a nice hit, and that's without considering it's U-Turn...

(Chansey and Snorlax are cleanly 2HKOed by Iron Head without hazards, while Iron Head OHKOes Dragon Dance Scrafty and Tornadus-T in the same situation -Iron Head also OHKOes Naive Tornadus-T with SR-)
 
So I'm farming my Black 2 cart for Genesects before the event ends.

I've got flawless Timid, Lonely, Hasty, and am about to get a flawless Mild. I also have HP Water Timid for the lulz (31 SP). Are my bases covered? I'm sticking with -Def natures when appropriate so as to not give opposing Downloaders S. Atk boosts.
~Uiru
 
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