Gengar (Analysis)

Snorlaxe

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[Overview]

<p>There’s so much more to Gengar’s malevolent exterior- in fact, Gengar is even more terrifying in practice than its appearance. Gengar still makes a potent offensive threat in the new generation, with generation thanks to its power, unpredictability, and excellent offensive movepool. Its set of immunities help it switch into common moves with impunity, giving it ample opportunities to come in and wreak havoc. Despite some of Gengar’s positive traits as a sweeper, it does have two notable drawbacks: having paper-thin defensive stats, which makes it take massive damage even from neutral attacks, and being weak to Dark-type moves, which leaves it vulnerable to Pursuit if it isn’t hiding behind a Substitute. However, the newly added Team Preview does allow for the scouting of possible Pursuit users, making the latter drawback less threatening. Don’t let Gengar’s atrocious defensive stats discourage you though, because its offensive potency can definitely disrupt unprepared teams.</p>

[Set]
name: Substitute + Disable
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Disable
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Focus Blast
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>This is one of Gengar’s deadliest sets to use with the proper timing. With Disable being upgraded to perfect accuracy in the new generation, Gengar can take advantage of this to great effect with its useful immunities combined with Substitute. The simple premise of this set is to hide behind a Substitute to overcome Pursuit-users, Pursuit users, avoid paralysis, and to make use of Disable easier to pull off. Common walls like such as Ferrothorn and Blissey, who rely on one attacking move to deal with Gengar, find themselves in a very tight position after their move has been Disabled. Even sweepers that use two coverage moves find themselves in very tight situations; prime examples include Substitute Garchomp, Conkeldurr without Stone Edge, and Gliscor. Gengar’s great neutral coverage lets it batter hit many Pokemon for high damage, making it difficult to wall. With the prevalence of Sand Stream sandstorm in the metagame, Leftovers is the main option to provide more opportunities to use Substitute and conserve health.

[Additional Comments]

<p>Life Orb gives Gengar that impressive kick to deal more damage; but however, the sandstorm damage and recoil might defeat the purpose of this set, so you might want to just stick with Leftovers.</p>

<p>Entry hazards allow for optimal performance for this set thanks to Gengar’s ability to force a ton of switches. Ferrothorn makes an excellent option for providing entry hazards, and it can serve as bait for Pokemon like Gliscor and Conkeldurr, all of whom can give Gengar an opportunity to switch in when timed correctly. Forretress has access to Toxic Spikes, which makes it easier to deal with certain walls. Offensively, Deoxys-S makes a great partner with thanks to its ability to sweep mindlessly after everything has taken massive amounts of the opposing team is battered by residual damage.</p>

[Set]
name: Substitute + Pain Split
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Pain Split
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>The Pain Split set is akin to the Disable set, but the approach to this set is much more offensive. Pain Split acts like a third attacking move capable of muscling towards through typical counters with massive HP statslike stats, such as Blissey, Chansey, and Snorlax. Furthermore, Pain Split works perfectly with Substitute and Life Orb at the same time, and even benefits from the residual damage from sandstorm and hail. The closer that Gengar's health bar drops gets to zero, the more HP that Gengar can suck away from its opponents. Gengar’s coverage is impressive, and it can act as a failsafe sweeper at any given time even with the absence of an extra coverage move.</p>

<p>The combination of Substitute and Pain Split allows Gengar to take out Pokemon it normally would not be able to, most notably Blissey. After Substitute and two Pain Splits (or one if sandstorm is in effect), Blissey's health will be low enough so that Focus Blast is a 2HKO. 2HKOes. This means that Blissey will be forced to constantly heal herself or risk being KOed. Pain Split has 32 PP, while Wish and Softboiled have 16, meaning that Gengar can easily stall Blissey out. Finally, most Blissey are unable to break Gengar's Substitutes, meaning Gengar can usually come out of the duel unscathed.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Toxic Spikes is the most beneficial form of entry hazard to use with this type of strategy set in order to hasten the damaging process against the likes of Blissey. Forretress makes an excellent supporter who can provide all types of hazards, especially Toxic Spikes. Ferrothorn makes a great partner, as always by being able to open up opportunities for Gengar to switch in, in addition to providing entry hazards. Heatran should also be considered as an offensive partner with due to its ability to draw in more opportunities for Gengar to switch in. Gengar has such atrocious defenses that it's actually quite difficult to pull off strategies like this, so always consider Pokemon that draw in immune Normal- and Ground-type attacks for Gengar to switch in on.</p>

<p>With such a direct approach to this set, Gengar is highly capable of beating many special walls with some good timing. As a result, it is recommended that Gengar is paired with sweepers who would normally have a difficult time bypassing said walls. Thundurus, Volcorona, and Choice Specs Politoed make fine offensive partners who are all capable of sweeping after these special walls are eliminated.</p>

[Set]
name: Substitute + 3 Attacks
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Thunderbolt
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Focus Blast
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>This set is similar to the previous two, sets except gaining one coverage move to specifically hit its counters who take neutral damage from Focus Blast. Due to the popularity of the previous two sets, Hidden Power Fire is sometimes neglected as a possible third move that and it can unexpectedly smash Scizor, Escavalier, and Ferrothorn for the OHKO. Hidden Power Fire also hits Specially Defensive Skarmory, Bronzong, and Jirachi for super effective damage, possibly 2HKOing Jirachi with Spikes on the field. Since Focus Blast’s inability to hit consistently is such a letdown, Hidden Power Fire makes a great choice to use over Thunderbolt for hitting Steel-types. However, Thunderbolt is still a useful alternative if bulky Water-types like Gyarados, Suicune, and Vaporeon prove to be a nuisance to the team. As usual, Substitute is an absolute requirement for this set as usual to act as a safety blanket against Pursuit users and status inducers. The item selection for this set is a toss-up; Leftovers allows for more survivability, while Life Orb increases damage output needed for OHKOs and 2HKOs on Pokemon like Ferrothorn and Jirachi.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Maximum Special Attack and Speed with a Timid nature provides the most sweeping potency. Even with the Speed drop from Hidden Power Fire, Gengar is still a speed point ahead of the musketeers, and outpaces anything below them. However, it is recommended to have a sturdy Latios and Latias counter now that Gengar’s Speed is a point lower than them.</p>

<p>Protect was a lot more effective back in the 4th Gen, with Generation due to the prevalence of Choiced Pursuit users like Scizor and Tyranitar. However, they are no longer as popular as they were, before, making Protect a barely adequate option to use over Substitute. It can still be used to conserve HP and scout for the occasional Choiced trapper.</p>

<p>Offensive Dragon-types like Haxorus, Garchomp, and Salamence make excellent choices for partners thanks to Gengar’s ability to draw in either Steel-types or bulky Water-types and weaken them with highly damaging attacks. Garchomp in particular can switch into Blissey’s Thunder Wave with impunity. Fighting-types like Terrakion or Lucario make perfectly good partners should Gengar be killed by a Choice’d Pursuit move. KOed by a Choice-locked Pursuit user. The free turn allows them to set up their respective stat-up moves and possibly sweep.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Choice Scarf is a viable set to use thanks to Gengar's great set of immunities and high Special Attack stat. However, Gengar is merely a one-trick pony for revenge killing since its unimpressive defensive stats and weakness to Pursuit means it wouldn't last very long otherwise. With the amount of Tyranitar and Scizor in the metagame, it’s very difficult to revenge kill efficiently. Gengar can use Explosion over Substitute on the Substitute + 3 Attacks set to provide coverage against dedicated special walls. However, the effectiveness of that option has been significantly reduced in the new generation with the unfortunate downgrade of Explosion. Gengar is better off using Substitute to shield itself from common Pursuit users and priority moves.</p>

<p>With such a diverse movepool, Gengar can easily catch typical counters off-guard with the appropriate move. Gengar has access to both Hypnosis and Will-O-Wisp; the former can sleep a counter and effectively remove it from the battle, while the latter can be used to spread burn status on physical counters like Tyranitar and Scizor. It's important to note the aforementioned moves' shaky accuracy and one miss can be fatal with due to Gengar’s atrocious defensive stats. Gengar is therefore better off firing attacks than spreading status around. Gengar can also use Sludge Bomb for an alternative STAB move, but it's essentially usually an underwhelming poor choice due to its poor type coverage.</p>

[Counters and Checks]

<p>Gengar’s pool of counters in the new generation has reduced slightly with the fresh accuracy boost of Disable, making it a difficult threat to beat directly. The best way to counter Gengar is to exploit its weak defenses and prevent it from switching in easily or setting up Substitute. If Gengar happens to switch in easily, Tyranitar with Chople Berry can beat Gengar provided it comes in on Shadow Ball, Ball; otherwise, it is going to get 2HKOed by Focus Blast. Specially Defensive Jirachi with Iron Head and a secondary attacking move that can hit it neutrally can check Gengar. Blissey is a safe answer to the Substitute + 3 Attacks set, and the Pain Split set to a lesser extent. However, the only way Blissey can beat it is by strategically stalling out Gengar’s Focus Blast PP with Wish and Protect. Specially Defensive Scizor with Pursuit and Bullet Punch can trouble Gengar that lack Hidden Power Fire. easily. Gengar is unable to Disable either of Scizor's moves, while the Pain Split set has trouble dealing significant damage with Focus Blast. Specially Defensive Spiritomb with 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD and a Calm nature is able to withstand any hit easily and threaten Gengar with Pursuit, Shadow Sneak, or Sucker Punch.</p>


apologies if i missed like ten thousand errors in this analysis, i was too distracted by franky's avatar B)

 
There should be a mention somewhere of destiny bond...
Maybe an all out attacking set too with HP ice, thunderbolt, focus blast, and shadow ball =O
 

Flora

Yep, that tasted purple!
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lol i'm not sure why i always see these tags missing.

[Set]
name: Substitute + Disable
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Disable
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Focus Blast
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>This is one of Gengar’s deadliest sets to use with the proper timing. With Disable being upgraded to perfect accuracy in the new generation, Gengar can take advantage of this to great effect with its useful immunities combined with Substitute. The simple premise of this set is to hide behind a Substitute to overcome Pursuit users, avoid paralysis, and to make Disable easier to pull off. Common walls such as Ferrothorn and Blissey, who rely on one attacking move to deal with Gengar,find themselves in a very tight position after their move has been Disabled. Even sweepers that use two coverage moves find themselves in very tight situations; prime examples include Substitute Garchomp, Conkeldurr without Stone Edge, and Gliscor. Gengar’s great neutral coverage lets it batter many Pokemon for high damage, making it difficult to wall. With the prevalence of sandstorm in the metagame, Leftovers is the main option to provide more opportunities to use Substitute and conserve health.</p>
 
would hypnosis b viable on sub + 3 attacks set?
It was a real killer last gen and still is. u can always run wide lens to increase accuracy of hypnosis and FB
Yeah, i tried it. way more successful than lots of other gengar sets
 
What move should i get rid of in order to make room for destiny bond. I use this gengar. My other members are Offensive Heatran, Offensive Gliscor, Meinshao, Offensive Mscale D-nite, and Bulky Offensive Scrafty.

GengarKan (Gengar) (F) @ Wise Glasses Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball <----STAB

- Thunderbolt <----Gyra

- Energy Ball <----Pert

- Hidden Power [Ice] <----Opposing scor
 
Get rid of energy ball. Water/Grounds are not a big issue for Gengar and most will take heavy enough damage from Shadow Ball as is. On another note you might want to think about HP Fire.
 
I would just like to say gengar isn't a complete counter to conkeldurrs, for example: switch in gengar on drain punch, you sub next turn, they payback, sub breaks, if they are smart and mach punch when you disable next turn, you disable their Mach punch and not payback.
 
I would just like to say gengar isn't a complete counter to conkeldurrs, for example: switch in gengar on drain punch, you sub next turn, they payback, sub breaks, if they are smart and mach punch when you disable next turn, you disable their Mach punch and not payback.
or.. you sub again, while they mach punch and fail.. then when the conk user is forced to use payback.. you 2hko for the kill. or they switch out, yada yada yada.

mind games playa. not everything is set in stone. it's pokemon.

I have to say though, that Gengar is looking a lot different now, than he was in the generations before V. [still think the 4 scarf set is lethal as fuk]
 
[Set Comments]

<p>This is one of Gengar’s deadliest sets to use with the proper timing. With Disable being upgraded to perfect accuracy in the new generation, Gengar can take advantage of this to great effect with its useful immunities combined with Substitute. The simple premise of this set is to hide behind a Substitute to overcome Pursuit users, avoid paralysis, and to make Disable easier to pull off. Common walls such as Ferrothorn and Blissey, who rely on one attacking move to deal with Gengar,find themselves in a very tight position after their move has been Disabled. Even sweepers that use two coverage moves find themselves in very tight situations; prime examples include Substitute Garchomp, Conkeldurr without Stone Edge, and Gliscor. Gengar’s great neutral coverage lets it batter many Pokemon for high damage, making it difficult to wall. With the prevalence of sandstorm in the metagame, Leftovers is the main option to provide more opportunities to use Substitute and conserve health.</p>
Insert space.
 

jc104

Humblest person ever
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
In the first sentence, I think you mean "there's so much more to Gengar than its malevolent exterior." Sorry to nitpick, but I can't stand errors in the first sentence.
 
I think Black Sludge should be used over leftovers since Gengar is a poison type and the fact that Trick Rotom-W is very common.
 

prem

failed abortion
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if rotom takes a trick, it can just trick the black sludge back to your wall. its just a bad idea
 

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