Gengarite Tiering Discussion [read post #383]

Do you think that Gengarite should be banned from OU?


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Maybe I just build the right teams, or something, because I've never had trouble with MegaGengar. Hell, a pokemon like Ninjask can deal with him thanks to night slash infiltrator outspeed (but I guess that's a moot point since 99.8% of OU players wouldn't consider using a pokemon like that anymore when they could just fill up their team with Ferrothorns and Ageislashes).

If MGengar is getting too strong, maybe it's time the metagame shift? I think a quickban is stupid, when the metagame is still growing up. If MGengar is too good, let's find out after three months of play. If people can't figure out how to deal with something as simple as a fragile ghost pokemon by then, go right ahead.

People put up with Stealth Rocks being allowed in all tiers, which severally constrain the number of usable viable pokemon by at least 75%. MGengar doesn't hardly constrain teams at all, in comparison to that.
Yes, Mega Gengar does constrain teams. It's like how Blaziken and Excadrill in BW1 constrained teams. Blaze and Drill forced people to run very unorthodox physical walls (Bronzong fell to UU AFTER Exca's ban). Similarly, Mega Gengar constrains teams. It shits on a lot of teams with no effort, and even if 50% of your team laughs at it, it has Shadow Tag to eliminate the other 50% quickly. It's not just that your team can't be weak to Mega Gengar, but no more than 1 or 2 of your mons must be weak to it, which is a giant demand.

Stealth Rock hurt some Pokemon (Victini, Arcanine, Moltres, Scyther, etc.). But it didn't have nearly the impact you described (Volcarona and Dragonite will still be Volcarona and Dragonite, Ho-Oh will be Ho-Oh, etc.).

Also, yes. Most people cannot deal with Mega Gengar, because it can switch and YOU CAN'T. In order to have a team that completely beats it you have to be against a really stupid opponent or have something like Tyranitar/Scizor/(you get the point).

Imo perish song + shadow tag is the thing that should be quick banned, not into ubers but from the game in general. After that then we can do a suspect test or observe how MegaGar fares as a special sweeper. Imo MegaGar is helpless against Vest users, if not for its destiny bond.
Mega Gengar can do so much other than Perish Song. Shadow Ball+Sludge Bomb/Wave+Focus Blast+DBond/Taunt/Sub is a really deadly and really common set, and there's a crapton of other moves it can run to screw over mons expecting those moves (I've seen Dazzling Gleam pre-Pokebank for Chesnaught, and, well, almost everything). Also if you're against a Vest user that can hurt you badly, switch.
 
As someone who thought Mega-Gengar would be almost certainly made Uber before the games were released, I'm surprised to say that after experience I'd say at the very least it isn't worth instant-banning. The act of having to Mega-evolve seems to actually be a major hindrance for it. Mega-Gengar's presence means you have to consider when and what with you attempt to KO the opponents Pokemon with, but it is relatively easy to keep Gengar from getting that chance with the current metagame. I think there's also a lot of Pokemon that are useful in this metagame that have methods of dealing with Gengar - mega or not - in some shape or form, and it becomes predictable by the point it gets to Mega-evolve. Assault vest is another thing that makes Mega-Gengar's trapping abilities less effective, making vulnerable pokemon like Tyranitar able to face Gengar more effectively. In a metagame with many bulkier tanks, rampant priority, and mega-evolution taking one precious turn, I reckon Mega-Gengar should and will remain OU for quite some time if not for the entirety of this generation. I could also note the minor influences of Sticky Web and U-turn/Volt Switch having relatively decent popularity.
 
As someone who thought Mega-Gengar would be almost certainly made Uber before the games were released, I'm surprised to say that after experience I'd say at the very least it isn't worth instant-banning. The act of having to Mega-evolve seems to actually be a major hindrance for it. Mega-Gengar's presence means you have to consider when and what with you attempt to KO the opponents Pokemon with, but it is relatively easy to keep Gengar from getting that chance with the current metagame. I think there's also a lot of Pokemon that are useful in this metagame that have methods of dealing with Gengar - mega or not - in some shape or form, and it becomes predictable by the point it gets to Mega-evolve. Assault vest is another thing that makes Mega-Gengar's trapping abilities less effective, making vulnerable pokemon like Tyranitar able to face Gengar more effectively. In a metagame with many bulkier tanks, rampant priority, and mega-evolution taking one precious turn, I reckon Mega-Gengar should and will remain OU for quite some time if not for the entirety of this generation. I could also note the minor influences of Sticky Web and U-turn/Volt Switch having relatively decent popularity.
The first turn of Mega Evolution is a huge boon for Perish Song Gengar, since it can lure in its counter in that turn. Otherwise, you can play around your opponent in that turn and you'll be fine.

Assault Vest is a very limiting item, especially on Tyranitar, since it forbids the use of Stealth Rock. Other than Mega Gengar, I'm not sure of anything Assault Vest really helps Tyranitar with, especially since after beating Mega Gengar you either have a dead TTar (D-Bond), or a TTar at low HP that is either fodder for the next mon or (even worse), setup fodder for the next mon.

Is it worth quickbanning? The council will decide that. Is it broken? Currently, very much so.

does not need a ban, it's easy to deal with and not even the strongest mega
What do you use to beat it 100% of the time? No, don't even bother answering that, there are a grand total of ZERO 100% answers to Mega Gengar. Unless you have psychic powers, you cannot tell if it's pure offensive, Taunt, Perish Song, or any other odd set until you lose a mon to a misprediction--you switch your AV Tyranitar into a Perish Song/Sub/Protect/Disable set and you lose it, you switch Blissey into a Taunt set and you struggle yourself to death while Gengar sets up a Substitute, etc. If you have found something that can 100% counter all its sets at once then you are godly.
 
AOPSUser

I never said that MegaGar can't do anything other than use Perish Song + Shadow Tag. But I still believe that Perish Song + Shadow Tag should be quick banned.

Now, the set that you're pointing out can also be run by a normal Gengar, and Gengar is OU. So I think the real discussion should be about, if the traits acquired and lost by Gengar when it mega evolves to MegaGengar is enough to push it into Uber status?

Gengar
+can hold an item
+immune to grounded moves

MegaGar
+superior stats against Gengar
+shadow tag

Above are the distinct features of Gengar and MegaGar.
 
Maybe I just build the right teams, or something, because I've never had trouble with MegaGengar. Hell, a pokemon like Ninjask can deal with him thanks to night slash infiltrator outspeed (but I guess that's a moot point since 99.8% of OU players wouldn't consider using a pokemon like that anymore when they could just fill up their team with Ferrothorns and Ageislashes).

If MGengar is getting too strong, maybe it's time the metagame shift? I think a quickban is stupid, when the metagame is still growing up. If MGengar is too good, let's find out after three months of play. If people can't figure out how to deal with something as simple as a fragile ghost pokemon by then, go right ahead.

People put up with Stealth Rocks being allowed in all tiers, which severally constrain the number of usable viable pokemon by at least 75%. MGengar doesn't hardly constrain teams at all, in comparison to that.

Here's a potential counter to Perish Song gengar: It's called Sableye.

Prankster Taunt? Check
Sucker Punch? Check
Ghost so he isn't trapped by Shadow Tag? Check
Confuse Ray status? Check
Doesn't take SE damage from Shadow Ball? Check

There you go, one potential check right there. I don't know if Sableye is actually a good counter, but he's got all the right qualities, that's for sure. There are a multitude of options to counter something as simple as Shadow Tag + Perish Song + stall. Again, this set has basically always existed in the form of Politoed, who could surprise you with a Whirlpool, Perish Song, then protect/sub you to death - and he's bulky enough to pull this off pretty easily too. In-fact, you could have Dugtrio or Gothorita on your team and swap out on a lightning attack and still pin somebody in place until they die. If we're quick banning over a gimmicky set like this then Smogon has real problems ahead.

If MGengar is too good, it's a symptom of players building way too tanky. I laughed the other day as I encountered a team with five walls and a single sweeper. He literally would just keep swapping walls and try to wear me down for a sweep. These kind of strategies are just as fragile as those that rely on constant baton passing of boosts, shell smash, et cetera. MGengar with Perish Song is a good option for dealing with pokemon that are just too tanky to deal with in any other way. But MGengar itself is extremely weak to obvious counters. I mean, are people really complaining about this? Don't you at least have Earthquake on somebody with Sturdy or Focus Sash (and you surely have a spinner too?)? Don't you at least have pursuit or thief or bulletpunch on your Scizor? Don't you at least have a priority taunt or uturn/volt switch? Don't you at least have whirlwind or roar? If you're complaining that Gengar is killing one of your pokemon before you take it down... So what? It's a Mega Pokemon? If you can come out ahead killing a megapokemon, Nintendo really fucked up. They're supposed to be pretty damn threatening, but once you take them down you've secured a big advantage and can possibly clean up from there.

The only thing I've ever encountered in Pokemon to be so utterly broken that it required a quick ban was Moody. This doesn't even come close.
Okay, I'm not sure if you're getting how this works. Mega Gengar comes in on something that doesn't threaten it, it kills said thing, and it leaves. So no, Sableye can't counter it because it won't be able to switch in. Priority users are useless because Gengar won't be going after things that can hurt it. It'll pick off things weak to it and there's nothing you can do about it. What you mentioned are checks. They force Gengar out, but they can't actually stop Gengar from doing its job. You want to be Gengar-proof, ALL of your team needs to be able to beat Gengar one on one.

Also, Infiltrator Night Slash Ninjask..... no, just no. There's a reason why Ferrothorn and Aegislash are popular, and its because they're good. Infiltrator Ninjask is just flat out awful, please stop using it.

Anyways, all the good arguments have been said by tongues more eloquent than mine, so imo Ban Gengarite.
 
AOPSUser

I never said that MegaGar can't do anything other than use Perish Song + Shadow Tag. But I still believe that Perish Song + Shadow Tag should be quick banned.

Now, the set that you're pointing out can also be run by a normal Gengar, and Gengar is OU. So I think the real discussion should be about, if the traits acquired and lost by Gengar when it mega evolves to MegaGengar is enough to push it into Uber status?

Gengar
+can hold an item
+immune to grounded moves

MegaGar
+superior stats against Gengar
+shadow tag

Above are the distinct features of Gengar and MegaGar.
Shadow Tag is probably enough IMO. Wynaut was Uber in Gen 4. Wynaut. Mega Gengar has a huge advantage against normal Gengar because of the extra Speed and the ability to choose what it will face, and when it makes that choice, whatever is trapped is usually screwed because the player is sure they can beat it.

That is the main reason Mega Gengar is so good. What do I think? It is too good. Should Gengarite be banned at some time? Definitely. I know that Tyranitar will be on all my teams until it is.
 
trapping is already pretty uncompetitive and when u can abuse it to such a vast extent and with as little drawback as mega genger (while still having the presence of a legitimate offensive threat itself) due to its speed/coverage, lack of choice exploitation, and options to sidestep conventional checks/counters creating guessing games, i think u have somethin broken on ur hands. those factors combine to give u a pretty much unprecedented forced kill machine within a gen that cant afford to pave that clear of a path for the myriad offensive threats, truly an assailant i can give a tip of the hood to.
 
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I don't really have a solid opinion on Mega Gengar just yet. I don't think it's broken in the current metagame, but I concede that's probably due to the fact that most of the teams i've faced were balanced / offense, and they're not "too" bothered by Mega Gengar. Don't get me wrong, Mega Gengar is effective against those teams too, but not to the point where it utterly dominates.

Given the near non-existence of defensive teams, I can't really make a fair assessment at the moment.
 
The first turn of Mega Evolution is a huge boon for Perish Song Gengar, since it can lure in its counter in that turn. Otherwise, you can play around your opponent in that turn and you'll be fine.

Assault Vest is a very limiting item, especially on Tyranitar, since it forbids the use of Stealth Rock. Other than Mega Gengar, I'm not sure of anything Assault Vest really helps Tyranitar with, especially since after beating Mega Gengar you either have a dead TTar (D-Bond), or a TTar at low HP that is either fodder for the next mon or (even worse), setup fodder for the next mon.

Is it worth quickbanning? The council will decide that. Is it broken? Currently, very much so.
Tyranitar is a great special tank - in fact it seems like AV makes many pokemon great special tanks. Discounting Perish Song, I just don't see MeGengar as a real centralizing threat - I think you could build an effective team and have a very small chance of finding out you can't handle it. I don't think it has the capacity alone to strongly hinder teambuilding options or promote the use of specialized Pokemon to counter it. It has plenty of efficacy but isn't so centralizing as to negatively shape the metagame.

I do understand Perish Song makes it much more debatable as it does effectively render some pokemon/sets useless that would normally have positive utility. I think at this point there are enough ways to get around it so Mega-Gengar would not be instantly banned, but I think the potential of simply banning the combination of Perish Song + Shadow Tag (not an unprecedented specialization in banning) is good enough that Mega-Gengar could exist in the OU metagame.
 
Tyranitar is a great special tank - in fact it seems like AV makes many pokemon great special tanks. Discounting Perish Song, I just don't see MeGengar as a real centralizing threat - I think you could build an effective team and have a very small chance of finding out you can't handle it. I don't think it has the capacity alone to strongly hinder teambuilding options or promote the use of specialized Pokemon to counter it. It has plenty of efficacy but isn't so centralizing as to negatively shape the metagame.

I do understand Perish Song makes it much more debatable as it does effectively render some pokemon/sets useless that would normally have positive utility. I think at this point there are enough ways to get around it so Mega-Gengar would not be instantly banned, but I think the potential of simply banning the combination of Perish Song + Shadow Tag (not an unprecedented specialization in banning) is good enough that Mega-Gengar could exist in the OU metagame.
Tyranitar is already a great special tank, and over on the Assault Vest thread people were saying that at some point Assault Vest doesn't really help in special bulk anymore, since you lose healing from Leftovers (the example cited was Goodra but Tyranitar fits the bill just as well). Assault Vest Tyranitar is so widespread, though, mostly because Mega Gengar exists. Hell, Mega Gengar is the reason I even use Tyranitar on my teams (or stuff like Scarf Inflitrator Chandelure), albeit not with an Assault Vest.

Banning just Perish Song+Shadow Tag, which is not going to happen anyways since it is a complex ban, doesn't actually help--if you switch your Blissey into Gengar and it turns out it has Taunt, you're still screwed. If you switch your Tyranitar into Gengar as it Megas and Substitutes, it gets a free switch for ~30% of its health, and they can force out your Tyranitar again. There's still that same level of unpredictability involved in Mega Gengar without Perish Song.
 
Complex bans are only done, to my knowledge, when it affects multiple Pokemon who all receive the same thing and are all broken with it. For example, the ban of Prankster + Assist in BW NU recently was done because both Liepard and Purrloin were deemed broken with the combination. If only Liepard was considered broken with it, only Liepard would have been banned. I don't want us to dwell too much on this example, so please don't get into debates over whether old complex bans were valid or not because it's not the point of this discussion. What I'm getting at is that Mega Gengar is the only Pokemon in the game with the combination of Perish Song + Shadow Tag, so a complex ban here is not necessary. Otherwise, what's the difference between banning Landorus-I with U-turn or Rock Polish instead of just Landorus-I in BW OU, since those two sets were the main problems people had with it? Or why not just ban Deoxys-D with Stealth Rock and Spikes? You wouldn't. It's just going through loopholes to try to avoid banning something that's broken.
 
As of now, I agree that Mega Gengar is a bit underwhelming in regular OU. However, I think that there are two aspects that can argue that Mega Gengar is Broken.

Disable + Shadow Tag pretty much eliminates any viability for a slow choiced user, since Mega Gengar can Disable, and basically sub so the Choiced user kills itself.

Perish Trapping also can be an issue once Pokebank comes out, since it basically eliminates any viability of stall.

Right now, the entire Metagame is offense though, so as of now, it's not TOO much of an issue it seems.
 

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Fuzznip basically covered everything in regards as to why Mega Gengar is broken.

The only thing I'd like to add is that Mega Gengar is much worse than ST Chandelure, to those of you who were making that comparison. Chandelure is weak to SR, unable to outspeed a huge amount of the metagame without a Choice Scarf, cannot reliably beat Tyranitar (Gengar can Sub to dodge Pursuit or just Focus Blast), and lacks the killer support moves Gengar gets (Destiny Bond, Perish Song, Disable). It can basically beat anything you can think of to use to check it, and I think many of you are underestimating the power of Destiny Bond on a fast trapper as it allows Mega Gengar to kill anything else it wants after it has eliminated what you needed it to kill.
 

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I think Gengarite is definitely powerful/uncompetitive enough to warrant a quick ban. Mega gengar's ability to reliable perish trap switch-ins that attempt to take a hit allow it to put an overwhelming amount of pressure on the opponent with very very little counterplay. Most defensive pokemon who would attempt to switch in on it are immediately dispatched as they switch in on a perish song. This wouldn't be as much of an issue if its special attack wasn't so high that few offensive pokemon can stomach a shadow ball. I find that its similar in its detriment to the metagame to Deoxys-S with superpower/hp fire during 5th gen. You have to hope that whatever you bring in on it isn't going to instantly be made useless, but if you don't take the risk, you're going to let Gengar have its way with you anyway.
 
Shadow Tag is probably enough IMO. Wynaut was Uber in Gen 4. Wynaut. Mega Gengar has a huge advantage against normal Gengar because of the extra Speed and the ability to choose what it will face, and when it makes that choice, whatever is trapped is usually screwed because the player is sure they can beat it.
You have a point. Even if you can switch a counter in the turn Gengar mega-evolves, you can just switch out MegaGar to a teammate that can deal with the said counter.

Although to be fair, MegaGar's movepool is rather lackluster, BP-wise. Compared to, say, ZardY's sun-boosted Fire Blast or spec'd Latios' Draco Meteor. Heck, my AV Rhyperior takes 20-something% damage from a Shadow Ball, 48% from Energy Ball.

Not to mention MegaGar's profound weaknesses in Sucker Punch, Pursuit and EQ. Sucker Punch is more of a toss up in the air, for EQ not so much. If your opponent predicts your MegaGar switch-in and switches in a counter with pursuit, that will severely dent your MegaGar.

Complex bans are only done, to my knowledge, when it affects multiple Pokemon who all receive the same thing and are all broken with it. For example, the ban of Prankster + Assist in BW NU recently was done because both Liepard and Purrloin were deemed broken with the combination. If only Liepard was considered broken with it, only Liepard would have been banned. I don't want us to dwell too much on this example, so please don't get into debates over whether old complex bans were valid or not because it's not the point of this discussion. What I'm getting at is that Mega Gengar is the only Pokemon in the game with the combination of Perish Song + Shadow Tag, so a complex ban here is not necessary. Otherwise, what's the difference between banning Landorus-I with U-turn or Rock Polish instead of just Landorus-I in BW OU, since those two sets were the main problems people had with it? Or why not just ban Deoxys-D with Stealth Rock and Spikes? You wouldn't. It's just going through loopholes to try to avoid banning something that's broken.
Won't you agree though that Perish Trapping is in, itself, a very broken feature? I'd wager that not even mons in Ubers can deal with Perish Trapping. Imo MegaGar is much more manageable without it.

Edit: thank you for editing my post, i didnt mean to double post
 
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You can't talk about a counter to Mega-Gengar, because you can't counter it. It chooses at will which mon it is going to take out with Perish Song and slaughters pretty much any defensive team single-handedly, making bulky Pursuiters necessary on these types of teams. I really like the direction Gen 6 took towards getting away from the offensive bias of BW2, but Gengar ruins all of that. I'm incredibly against banning most things (honestly I'd be happy if nothing else was banned after MGar), but Mega-Gengar is Broken, and it seems like most people in this thread agree. Quick-ban plz.
 
People who are saying to ban just Perish Song, this isn't how banning works. As mods have already stated before, the only reason to ban a moveset is if it us usable among multiple mons. The only reason MGengar's Perish trap is broken is because of the combination of Perish Song/Shadow Tag, which NO ONE ELSE has. Thus, if anything is going to be banned because of PerishTag, it's MGengar.
 
OK, because Mega Gengar has Shadow Tag it has a grand total of zero counters. A counter is something that can switch in, take hits easily, and strike back hard (paraphrasing official definition here), but because literally nothing can switch in, it has zero counters. Basically, if Mega Gengar can come in on something that it can deal with (very common with its high SpA and Spe stats), that thing is going down. I am in favor of a quickban.

I've said this many times and I will say it again: No one likes Shadow Tag
Assault Vest Goodra can Counter most sets besides the dumb destiny bond set.

But on my opinion of ban or not, I'm not completely sure, but I would lean towards ban of gengarite as even though I never have trouble with it (The Assuakt Vest Goodra variation I refered to at the beginning can almost garuntee it's death, and make sure it only gets Goodra if it runs destiny bond) I realize that not everyone is running the same sets as me, and people probably have trouble with the Destiny Bond set getting at least two people.

Edit: @ the guy saying the Assualt vest becomes inferior to leftovers at a certain point, that only is relevant in damage below 10%. While t-tar and Goodra might have big special bulk any special attacker will likely do around 15-18 % to them.
 
Let's just strip away all the verbose and define Mega Gengar.

Mega Gengar is a pokemon with 170 Special Attack and 130 Speed (which is on the highest end of the spectrum on both stats). He's frail as a paper bag but he can switch into anything (most likely after a partner faints) and trap it. His main STAB is only resisted by Dark Pokemon and immunity to his STAB is found on the rarest type of competitive pokemon. However, MG can also use Destiny Bond which means if you kill him then your Pokemon also faint. He can learn Perish Song, Taunt, and Substitute which means that he can KO Walls without taking a hit.

So basically what we have is a nuke that eliminates one Pokemon from the opponent's team if they aren't wearing a choice scarf or lack a priority move that can take out Gengar in one hit (because 9/10 other mons aren't outspeeding him).

Ban him to Uber.
 
I agree with this. Most people in favor of a quickban are citing Gengar's Perish Trap set, but the fact is that Perish Song is illegal until Pokebank.

I don't think we can "quickban" something based on a set that doesn't yet exist.
That's exactly what I came here to post. What arguably makes Mega-Gengar broken is the Perish trapping, and this doesn't even exist yet. We have no way to confirm what complications may arise when pokebank is released, either. If Mega Gengar is to be banned, it only makes sense for it to be banned in post-pokebank OU.

I don't think smogon should get in the habit of banning things before they actually exist.
 
This is ridiculous.

On its first switch-in, Mega Gengar cannot trap its first target; it can only trap the thing that switches in to counter it, which would not be switching anyway. In other words, on its first switch-in, it behaves basically like regular Gengar. In order to trap and kill something in a manner remotely comparable to stuff like Dugtrio, Magnezone, and Gothitelle, you have to switch in Gengar twice: a Pokemon with 60/60/75 defenses on the first switch-in, 60/80/95 defenses on the second, no defensive investment whatsoever, and only a total of seven types it takes better than neutral - six, on its second switch-in, because it loses its immunity to Ground. And by the second switch-in, it's already shown some aspect of its hand, since it has to launch an attack on its first switch-in in order to Mega Evolve. If that attack was Perish Song, you might have a problem regardless, if not for the fact that as things currently stand, in real, observable metagames, Perish Song is not in Gengar's movepool.

In practice? I've found dealing with Mega Gengar no more of an issue than dealing with any other offensive threat, including regular Gengar. You figure out how to kill it and put it into play faster than it can kill you, that simple. There's simply nothing out of the ordinary about the situation at all. Maybe once Pokebank shows up and we can concretely establish its metagames and start examining things, we'll have a chance to suspect it. But for the time being, Gengarite must not be quickbanned; it should remain OU at least until it has the chance for an actual suspect test. The notion of quickbanning it is just absurd.
 
The Perish Song set isn't even legal yet. This seems incredibly premature to me. Based on how it exists right now, I don't think he's really bannable. No leftovers means he's susceptible to being worn down if he is running a sub. No Life Orb means his power is somewhat limited, though 170 Special Attack is pretty impressive regardless. There isn't even a proper standard tier yet.
 

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That's exactly what I came here to post. What arguably makes Mega-Ggar broken is the Perish trapping, and this doesn't even exist yet. We have no way to confirm what complications may arise when pokebank is released, either. If Mega Gengar is to be banned, it only makes sense for it to be banned in post-pokebank OU.

I don't think smogon should get in the habit of banning things before they actually exist.
as things currently stand, in real, observable metagames, Perish Song is not in Gengar's movepool.
Smogon should never ban things that don't even exist, in my opinion.
The Perish Song set isn't even legal yet. This seems incredibly premature to me.
Nice try, but Deoxys-N is already gone.

Anyway, this thread inspired me to throw together a Pokebank OU team and run around with Perish Trap Gengar. With bulk (you're running Perish Trap, your main goal isn't attacking lol) you can survive stray priority - I have mine EVd to take <75% from a LO Talonflame - and still set up a Sub or Perish Song. Coupled with a Wish user and a check to multi-hit attackers (basically just Cloyster and MegaKanga) it's pretty much unstoppable.
 

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Let's not act as if Mega Gengar is easy to wall. It can still 2HKO the majority of the metagame with Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / Sludge Bomb and whatever it can't, it can just kill off with Destiny Bond. So no, Perish Song is not even needed to make this thing absolutely broken.
 
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